Who agrees with Hana Modz lawsuit?

[VapingCuban]

So everyone knows about Hana Modz suing everyone that's selling their dna30 box mods with logo. What are your thoughts?
Just my 2 cents... I think sooner or later every mod manufacturer is going to be suing every B&B store around the country unless they start selling logo-less replicas.

 

[cheetodog]

Its sad that the vaping community has come to this...but I agree with Hana. Anyone who is making money off of their logo is wrong. Could there have been a better solution? Perhaps? Should the manufacturer have been guilty instead? Sure! Many people think they are suing for the box mod. No...its the logo. Kinda like tissue paper manufacturer putting Kleenex on their products and reaping the benefits.

 

[Paddrino]

Anyone who is trying to defend their company name is fine by me. If they were taking people to court for something like an aluminum box, then I would have a different opinion.

 

[Ghostrider]

Sad thing is the clones arent making money off using the logo.....its the design.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

This is incorrect. They are not just suing for the logo units. In the released court papers, they are suing for the use of the edited Hana pictures used to sell the clone.
Hana has every right to protect their IP. I just think they had other options, options far less dickish. Imo, a C&D would have worked....

 

[VapingCuban]

Have you guys heard that v3tronix flip has been stopped by customs. Apparently they went after fasttech

 

[VapingCuban]

Unfortunately China companies don't give a fuck about cloning and it's difficult to say the least to go after them being in China so it's only right to go after the B&B stores. If they want to be safe and not get sued they better start selling logo-less mods.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Have you guys heard that v3tronix flip has been stopped by customs. Apparently they went after fasttech

There's no way they can catch every separate package that goes through customs. But you're right, American copyright means nothing in China.
Like I said though it's not strictly the logo. "anaH" "Chana " and "Cana" are similar enough in name to produce a lawsuit. As is marketing with the real Hana pictures... It doesn't have to have a logo...

 

[Jetalito]

What is so hard about taking a pic and marketing your own product. The price alone, makes for customer demand. If it's a good product, it will sell. China needs to revamp their marketing program. Where's the pride China!

 

[aussie]

Logo yes mod no IMO

 

[Spike64]

Logo yes mod no IMO

Agree....

 

[MistaKuraudo]

Well, putting the right and wrong parts aside, I'm happy to see a vape company stand up for and protect what's theirs instead of taking it up the butt and letting their brand make someone else money.

There's no way they can catch every separate package that goes through customs. But you're right, American copyright means nothing in China.
Like I said though it's not strictly the logo. "anaH" "Chana " and "Cana" are similar enough in name to produce a lawsuit. As is marketing with the real Hana pictures... It doesn't have to have a logo...

I don't think it's about catching every single one. If your package DOES get caught, your money is thrown right down the drain. I heard that they'd get rid of the entire package and not just take out the mod and send the rest. It'll be enough to scare at least a few people from purchasing those certain devices.

 

[VapingCuban]

I don't know about that curly. It has to be the same logo and lettering as well I believe. Also it has to have a logo to produce the lawsuit cause they can't trademark a tube.

 

[Spike64]

I suppose vendors will wise up and quit marketing these aluminum boxes as Cana, Chana, and ANAH mods...they will also likely stop using photos of the authentics in their ads...that should end the lawsuits as I doubt they could be successfully sued for selling a plain aluminum box with a chip in it and some buttons on it...I hope so anyways as I might buy the clone in the near future....I'm not likely gonna pay 200 to 300 bucks for an original one....lol

 

[jack]

Build and sell whatever you want but, don't put another builders name on it . That's deceptive and plain dishonest.

 

[Spike64]

Build and sell whatever you want but, don't put another builders name on it . That's deceptive and plain dishonest.

Its really only deceptive and dishonest if you market it as authentic...the legality and ethics of it is a completely different matter...

 

[Eliquidvape]

I think Hana Modz has a right to be pissed, especially given that their logo is on the mod. However, I don't agree with the way they are handling it by going after shops and group buyers with there frivolous law suits. Its the same reason why I am not a fan of V3tronix, when you start going after actual vapers and not random Chinese manufactures who are just going to continue to produce the products, your not fixing the problem, your just pissing people off.

 

[vapink]

I can just imagine a newb buying one of these Hana clones and having it burn up or vent and then posting bad reviews all over the web that Hanas sucks. Just slap a different logo or go without one if that's so intellectually challenging for the cloners.

 

[JamesEh408]

I think they are suing vaportek as well. My guess would be able cause they are advertising "HanaMod clones"

Or at least they were when I bought mine.

 

[ghost62]

If I were Hana Modz, what would I do?
Honestly, probably file suit against the manufacturer (waste of time, I know, but it's taking a stand) and contact the retailers and ASK them to respect my name and hard work by not selling the clones with my logo. If they refuse, then I would hit them for all they are worth. No mercy. No backing down.
I built a business from the ground up (literally) and I took a great deal of pride in my product and the hard work that went into making it a success. I vehemently guarded my reputation in the communiy and I made sure that both quality and customer satisfaction were my top priorities.
Hana has no control over the quality or craftsmanship of the clones but the clones have a significant impact on Hana's reputation.
I'd be pissed but would at least give the merchants a chance (as fellow vapers) to do the right thing. If they didn't... then game on

 

[ghost62]

And while I'm on my soapbox....
I think that's how ALL clones should be handled. The vaping community has shown itself to be self-policing on more than one occassion and if enough legit manufacturers take a stand, maybe the shadier retailers will choose to play nice in he future without having to resort to divisive lawsuits.
<end rant>

Ok, one more thing... just one, I swear (for now)...
The more the vaping communiy polices itself, the less the goverment with need to.

 

[tick22]

yes and no. Yes to protect their logo, no, the way they went about it...

 

[MOVapor]

Have you guys heard that v3tronix flip has been stopped by customs. Apparently they went after fasttech

I noticed the other day, that FT has removed all of it's Flip clones. (at least, for the time being) A big win for V3. Of course, they are still available elsewhere.

My guess is they'll show up again soon with the the logos removed.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

I don't know about that curly. It has to be the same logo and lettering as well I believe. Also it has to have a logo to produce the lawsuit cause they can't trademark a tube.

Have a look here https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm#toc likelihood of confusion is the issue, not solely the use of a logo. Also, the publicized court documents SPECIFICALLY quote the use of doctored pictures used on facebook.

 

[VaporJoe]

Its sad that the vaping community has come to this...but I agree with Hana. Anyone who is making money off of their logo is wrong. Could there have been a better solution? Perhaps? Should the manufacturer have been guilty instead? Sure! Many people think they are suing for the box mod. No...its the logo. Kinda like tissue paper manufacturer putting Kleenex on their products and reaping the benefits.

He is sueing people that ARE NOT using his logo. They are just using the box. He wants 150,000.00 and all profits. He does NOT have a federal trademark at this time - its simply an application.

 

[Dhim]

If anything this suit should bring forth a few things about originals vs clones. I plan on doing a whole video about my thoughts on it, but I need to get them all organized and what not.

However for this, here are a couple things
1) Clone makers, there is no reason to use the Hana logo. Especially to go out of your way to program it onto the chip.

2) Let's call this what it is. It's an dual 18650 box that has been around since the early days of vaping. Use 1 side for a DNA 30 chip (openly available), solder the wires from the terminal to the chip, and to the 510 connector. Not exactly ground breaking innovation.

3) I personally dislike them going after these small B&M's. They are selling clones because everyone is selling clones. This is a "hot" mod at the moment. Look at every other clone being sold. It's the same deal as the Hana Mods. The logo is all over the place and called exactly by the name. Is this really any different than all the Patriots out there once you take out the screen? It sort of has the feel of "I can't get the guys in China, so someone has to pay." The unfortunate fact is that if these stores in fact lose their fight, it will belly up them. Even worse if they went about opening the store without proper business protection, and could come after personal assets. To me, this is the wrong group to go after. It feels like they sat with a lawyer and went through the list of who they can actually put some blame on. Ending up with the last on the chain, the mom and pops.

4) Ideally this will send a ripple to the clone manufacturers to keep logos and brands off their devices. There is no reason for them. The majority of mods out there are identifiable by their look or function. I get a kick out of looking at my Kayfun clone where it has stamped on it "Made in Germany. Designed in Russia". Come on. Call it the K-Joy Tank and leave it blank, would you really care?

Let's face it, if a company made a Hana Clone and called it the "Aluminum box mod with a DNA 30 inside" I'm fairly certain, it would sell just as well. Price it correctly and build it right and we will swoon over it. Heck we might even start calling it the ABMDNA30 (filing trademark name right now, so get lost )

/rant off.

 

[twisted_transistor]

He is sueing people that ARE NOT using his logo. They are just using the box. He wants 150,000.00 and all profits. He does NOT have a federal trademark at this time - its simply an application.

Joe is right, they where also suing vaportekusa who did not ha e any logos on there boxes nor did they use any pictures of the boxes with logos. Do you really think that is justified, you can't trademark a plain aluminium box

 

[Dhim]

Those will get dismissed right away in court. It's like when King (company behind Candy Crush) tried suing for using the word Saga. Certain things, even the best of lawyers will never be able to have it stick. That specific point however is why I personally would not support Hana in this. Logo infrigment, sure I will give you that. Trying to stake claim on a battery box, no no in my book. I think I had a 18650 box mod back in 09. Looked just about the same too.

 

[Zamazam]

101 has a

I noticed the other day, that FT has removed all of it's Flip clones. (at least, for the time being) A big win for V3. Of course, they are still available elsewhere.

My guess is they'll show up again soon with the the logos removed.

101 is selling a flip clone with the 101 logo on it. Too bad for V3tronics and the lawyers.

 

[Zamazam]

Those will get dismissed right away in court. It's like when King (company behind Candy Crush) tried suing for using the word Saga. Certain things, even the best of lawyers will never be able to have it stick. That specific point however is why I personally would not support Hana in this. Logo infrigment, sure I will give you that. Trying to stake claim on a battery box, no no in my book. I think I had a 18650 box mod back in 09. Looked just about the same too.

I'm in agreement with you. Hana going after B/M and internet shops that DON'T have the Hana logo on them is just pure fucking greed.

 

[VapingCuban]

He is sueing people that ARE NOT using his logo. They are just using the box. He wants 150,000.00 and all profits. He does NOT have a federal trademark at this time - its simply an application.

101 has a

101 is selling a flip clone with the 101 logo on it. Too bad for V3tronics and the lawyers.

How about that 101 did put their logo on the flip lol

@vaporjoe does hana have a leg to stand on suing B&Ms who are selling the logo-less mods? Or not having a legit trademark yet since they've only applied for it?

 

[VapingCuban]

Personally I think the attorneys win @ the end of the day and the guy with the deeper pockets win. It's a black eye for the industry. As an SEO Marketing specialist ive seen many infringements on people's marketing efforts and at the end of the day no one has the balls nor pockets to do anything about it. I'll give you an example... your name is jose and you own a company and website by the name of party4less and another guy in town who happens to be also named jose just opened up shop in town with a similar name... aparty4less! Wouldn't you be pissed? Talk about confusing customers. Nothing was ever done about it. Its not like party rental companies are trademarking their names nowadays but even if you wanted too you can't trademark common names like party or less anyways. Cost too much to take people to Court and no one wins except the attorneys.

 

[VapingCuban]

At the end of the day these lawsuits will serve as eye openers for the whole industry. Don't want your logo on a clone being profited by other vendors? Serve them notice and it'll stop. I believe this will become the new trend going forward.

 

[UncleRJ]

Personally I think the attorneys win @ the end of the day and the guy with the deeper pockets win. It's a black eye for the industry. As an SEO Marketing specialist ive seen many infringements on people's marketing efforts and at the end of the day no one has the balls nor pockets to do anything about it. I'll give you an example... your name is jose and you own a company and website by the name of party4less and another guy in town who happens to be also named jose just opened up shop in town with a similar name... aparty4less! Wouldn't you be pissed? Talk about confusing customers. Nothing was ever done about it. Its not like party rental companies are trademarking their names nowadays but even if you wanted too you can't trademark common names like party or less anyways. Cost too much to take people to Court and no one wins except the attorneys.

As always, it is the attorneys will win out. A B&M will likely fold due to their really BAD decision to put the Hana logo on the clone, Hana will not end up with the huge payoff they are hoping for and vapers will cheerfully chose a well built $70 (or less) clone (with or without the Hana logo) over the $250 original Hanna built mod.

 

[st_andrew]

I have said this in another post but I love clones I just don't like counterfeits. The only difference being one has copied branding the other doesn't. Is that to hard for china to do, or do people think they can fool people and tell them it's the real thing. I would be just as likely to buy a clone without branding wouldn't you? In fact I would rather buy it without the branding. Also how does the clothing company's stop counterfeits. Can't mod company's do the same?

 

[CurlyxCracker]

He is sueing people that ARE NOT using his logo. They are just using the box. He wants 150,000.00 and all profits. He does NOT have a federal trademark at this time - its simply an application.

In all fairness you don't NEED a registered trademark to sue.

 

[VaporJoe]

In all fairness you don't NEED a registered trademark to sue.

You need a registered trademark to sue in federal court - this is what he is doing and he DOESN'T have a registered trademark at this time.

 

[Temple Noble]

I have said this in another post but I love clones I just don't like counterfeits. The only difference being one has copied branding the other doesn't. Is that to hard for china to do, or do people think they can fool people and tell them it's the real thing. I would be just as likely to buy a clone without branding wouldn't you? In fact I would rather buy it without the branding. Also how does the clothing company's stop counterfeits. Can't mod company's do the same?

Coach is ruthless defending their logo's. They take mom and pop shops to court all the time and they have taken second hands shops to court and won.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

You need a registered trademark to sue in federal court - this is what he is doing and he DOESN'T have a registered trademark at this time.

You do not need to have a federal trademark in order to bring a federal lawsuit under 15 U.S.C. 1125(a), but having a federally registered trademark makes the case much stronger. Indeed, one of the factors considered by the courts when weighing evidence in a lawsuit based on 1125(a) is whether a federal trademark registration exists. Technically, a trademark lawsuit based on 1125(a) is not a trademark infringement lawsuit, but rather one based on likelihood of confusion, which is a form of unfair business practices. In a trademark infringement lawsuit you are alleging another is using your trademark, which happens but is not as common as someone using something that is quite similar, but not identically the same. In the case where someone is using a similar but not identical trademark any federal action would be brought pursuant to 1125(a). Thus, even if your claim is not specifically a trademark infringement matter there is significant advantage to having a federally registered trademark.

Source: http://www.ipwatchdog.com/trademark/

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Hana Modz has every right to protect their IP. That said a C&D letter would have been just as productive. Missing one thing. Money. I disagree with how they are handling things and have lost any potential business from me due to the way this was all handled.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

One major thing they are suing for is provided as "exhibit B" in the documents that list Daily Vape Steals as the defendant, SCREENSHOTS of manipulated Hana Modz copyright photographs used to market on Facebook, instagram, and twitter.
The reasoning for the lawsuit is for the way it was marketed, not a logo.
"Liklihood of Confusion " is what allows them to sue in federal court.

 

[Spike64]

Here is a cool alternative...The "Don't Sue Me Bro" DNA30 mod...

 

[Kang]

Quick disclaimer : I don't give a shit if people buy clones. Spend your money how you want to…

That said -

I don't know if I agree with HOW they are pursuing it but I respect that they are doing what they can as a company to do SOMEthing.

How hard would it be for these Chinese manufacturers to develop a similar mod without the exact same layout? Is it so hard to move the charging port and not include a window?

At the end of the day, these mod developers SHOULD take a stand for their creations. If they can't do anything to the unregulated US job stealers in China then they can either do what Hana's currently doing or do absolutely nothing and watch their creation be stolen… I for one would go after every single person involved if my idea was stolen and capitalized on… F*ck that sh*t.

 

[5150sick]

All Hana better hope for is to not get one of these old, anti ecig judges (that may follow Stanton Glantz's blog and believe that shit).

I can hear it now:
"So let me get this straight. YOU are mad because you have an 'evil child enticing poison box' and HIS 'evil child enticing poison box' looks like yours??? Get this bullshit out of my courtroom!!! I wish I could send all of you 'nicotine peddlers' to jail!!!"

They may get more than they bargained for with this one. Judges have friends that are senators.

 

[5150sick]

I posted this in another thread and it doesn't apply to Hana but it does apply to 99% of the other mods out there:


Actually (most of) the makers of these high end mods are too stupid to apply for any sort of trademarks or patents whatsoever so no laws would be broken if a cloned Nemesis were bought or sold.

As a matter a fact no one would even know who or what an atmomixani is or what a Nemesis even was if it had never been cloned.
This actually helps atmomixani since they can only produce them in runs of 500.
They could sell the next version of the Nemesis for $800 and easily find 500 assholes stupid enough to pay that much for a shiny metal tube.

Here is a case where a mod maker actually THANKED fasttech for cloning his mod as it has made his product more in demand and now more people know about it. Read the entire thread here if you do not believe me:
http://www.fasttech.com/forums/1746703/t/1298135/hank-you-for-cloning-my-desing-mod