Why 90% of E-liquid on The Market Is a Rip-Off

[Thunderball]

I use a very small space to mix myself......and on one side of my laptop. My flavors are all on a bunch of shelves, but could be in little boxes I suppose. Your right, it doesnt take much room.

 

[dave/jayce]

Jayce....Are you the same Jayce from ECF that put together the juice Red Vs Blue ?

@Thunderball - sorry no im not. My name is Dave. My stepson is obsessed with me and vaping. When i registered here at VU, he wanted to join my "club" with me. His words "club".

 

[Thunderball]

I like that .... Club.
It feels like a club to
Me


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[dave/jayce]

No doubt.....love it here....

 

[Talon4x4]

If you called someone that has little money "lower class" in my presence.....I would feed you my fist. I am a Franciscan and a street minister and a pacifist...this means you really fucked me off with that comment.

Franciscan monks don't hit people, do they?!?

 

[Smoky Blue]

well.. if you were a monk and had no girlfriend or wife..
hey wait.. didnt the pope approve of marriage?? i get lost..
still.. yes they can and do hit people

 

[MKPM]

Franciscan monks don't hit people, do they?!?

I'm not a monk. I am a Third Order Secular


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[VH fan]

Like i said before , rumor has it that Franciscan once killed a man for simply asking for the time at a less than opportune moment for him , so i'm sure feeding a man his fist is a given .

He's one scary mofo , and don't ask him for the time for Gods sake.

 

[MKPM]

Lol


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[VH fan]

Lol


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I luv ya man , your good people in my book lol.

 

[MKPM]

I luv ya man , your good people in my book lol.

Feeling is mutual sir


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[vapenator]

I have been Vaping for an entire year now. Within that single year I have learned so much more about e-cigarettes and everything related than I would have ever expected. Within that year I went from a Mod Envy fan trying to quit smoking to a young, passionate entrepreneur of a rapidly growing E-liquid company and a one of a kind vaping enthusiast . I have always been a business-minded person, when I was in 6th grade I would buy blank skateboards off of ebay for $10 a piece, paint them and sell them to my friends at school. I even had a local sponsored skate team to represent the company. Of course, as the causality for most entrepreneurs unfolds, that business plan did not the capacity for longevity, neither did my next business, or the next one.
That is when I started vaping, as I became more and more interested in Vaping and E-cigarettes, I started doing more research as all vapers eventually do. A friend of mine who got me into Vaping was far ahead of me in know-how; we would talk frequently about juice, mods, whats new, whats good, etc. At the time I was a poor, unemployed, struggling freelance graphic designer and videographer. I was looking for something else to invest all the assets I had. At the same time, my friend and I had been having troubles really finding good juice that we liked. We tried MBV, Fanceejuice, Space Jam, Greenman, all the popular stuff at the time. So my friend starts looking up stuff about DIY, that leads to him looking at bulk prices of ingredients, and eventually doing all the math for how much a 30ml bottle would cost. I can't remember the exact number he came up with but it was around $1. When I heard that, the first thing I thought was "No way, that's just not possible." So I spent a few days searching the web, looking at wholesale vg/pg and other ingredients throwing numbers together and what do you know?
Currently, before wage expenses, spillage, and all the other small costs that go along with operating a laboratory and a general business, it COSTS US $1.09 in ingredients on average to manufacture a 30ml glass bottle (clear or amber) including childproof dropper caps! And that is without us even buying ingredients in the highest possible bulk quantities. When I found these numbers out, I was outraged. Not even just at the industry itself, but mainly at the Vaping community. I was angry that no one of importance in the Vaping community has ever brought this to the public's attention. Large California companies are ripping you people off and laughing as they drive away in their Mercedes.
I have become so passionate about this problem that it pushed me not only start my own company and sell juice at fair prices, but to also advocate for lower prices in the industry as it is just downright UNFAIR for the lower class. It is my personal opinion that the roots of Vaping is 100% cessation. Vaping has ALWAYS been about quiting smoking, and a large part of that is cost reduction. The Industry has not only been turned into a trend-based consumer whirlpool, but it has actually become MORE EXPENSIVE than smoking cigarettes. With more RDAs coming out and more higher powered regulated devices, low-ohm vaping is at an all time high in popularity. I go through about 60ml a week vaping at around 3-6mg/ml. I consider that to be pretty average but quite a lot compared to when I first started vaping. When I smoked cigarettes, it would take me about 2-3 days to finish a pack. I have plenty of customers and friends who say they can easily vape a 30ml or even a 60ml in a single day. Now consider this, when I smoked cigarettes, it would cost me $20 a week tops to buy cigarettes, that was granted that I had friends who let me bum some; if you are buying juice from a vape shop or California company, you are paying around $44 a week not including what it costs for accessories, cotton, wire, all of which are also all overpriced in pretty much any vape shop. The reason why I believe this is such an important injustice is that at least 50% of all the profit made from juice which apparently from my numbers can theoretically be as much as a 2000% return on investment is going straight into the pockets of these rich business owners who most of, from my personal experience, don't even vape or know that much about vaping. It is simply unjust to victimize people who are trying to quit a deadly addiction by picking up a revolutionary new technology and make money off of them simply because they have not put in hours of research. Now I understand that not all companies or business are at fault and that there are a lot of good people and influences in the vaping community, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, but one thing is for sure: There is already a large amount of corruption in the Vaping Community and I will be damned if I am going to sit idly by and watch it continue to grow without speaking out and taking action.

Sincerely With Compassion For All Earthlings,
Ambrose Fino
Owner/Founder
Dreamy Vapor Company

 

[vapenator]

When I was in 6th grade there was this new kid who was selling skate boards. I bought one and within a week the wheels fell off and the paint had washed away because it had been colored in with crayons. I went to get my money back only to realize he had skipped town.

 

[VH fan]

When I was in 6th grade there was this new kid who was selling skate boards. I bought one and within a week the wheels fell off and the paint had washed away because it had been colored in with crayons. I went to get my money back only to realize he had skipped town.

The wheels didn't fly off when you were trying to survive the neighborhood hill of death that even bicycles were afraid to attempt did they.

 

[OB61887]

When I was in 6th grade there was this new kid who was selling skate boards. I bought one and within a week the wheels fell off and the paint had washed away because it had been colored in with crayons. I went to get my money back only to realize he had skipped town.

Drawn in crayon...

 

[msgnyc]

No surprise. That's like saying restaurants and the like are a rip off cause you can cook your own food. You hunt, grow and cook all your own food? ;-)

Not everyone wants to diy. Some people diy and buy liquid like myself and others diy. Choices are great aren't they?

 

[Time]

No surprise. That's like saying restaurants and the like are a rip off cause you can cook your own food. You hunt, grow and cook all your own food? ;-)

Not everyone wants to diy. Some people diy and buy liquid like myself and others diy. Choices are great aren't they?

Best reply of the thread.

I do DIY juice. But then, I do DIY allot of my own food too.

I love choices!

 

[Iamme]

I do not see space being an issue for DIY. I have a Rubbermaid container a little bigger than a shoe box it holds everything (I have probably 50 or more flavors) except my liters of Nic and gallon of vg. I keep it in a kitchen cupboard away from my lil ones. I have two walyworld vg bottles recycled lol filled with nic and vg that fit in the container for use (the box stays in my closet on a shelf away from lil ones) they fear the stiff like it is battery acid. They are 5 and 8 and do not get into stuff anyway, but prevention is the best safety. I mix on my kitchen or living room table. You could do it on a tv tray if that's all the space you have. It is far cheaper and after you do it a while and experiment not only can you clone the flavors you like, but make flavors no shop will have that you like even more. I reuse my glass bottles and wash and reuse my syringes needle tips et... I would say a 30ml bottle runs me about 60-80 cents tops. Plus you know what you're getting. Not all shops are honest and created equal. There have been shops that water down juices and everything else. You make it, you know what you're vaping and the quality is what you make it with your mixing ability and the flavors you buy. I love diying my juice. Even if money were not a option and I could vape 60ml of $100 dolls juice I would still DIY. I do buy some juices from companies here and there that I like, but 99% of my stuff is living room brew.

 

[VH fan]

I do not see space being an issue for DIY. I have a Rubbermaid container a little bigger than a shoe box it holds everything (I have probably 50 or more flavors) except my liters of Nic and gallon of vg. I keep it in a kitchen cupboard away from my lil ones. I have two walyworld vg bottles recycled lol filled with nic and vg that fit in the container for use (the box stays in my closet on a shelf away from lil ones) they fear the stiff like it is battery acid. They are 5 and 8 and do not get into stuff anyway, but prevention is the best safety. I mix on my kitchen or living room table. You could do it on a tv tray if that's all the space you have. It is far cheaper and after you do it a while and experiment not only can you clone the flavors you like, but make flavors no shop will have that you like even more. I reuse my glass bottles and wash and reuse my syringes needle tips et... I would say a 30ml bottle runs me about 60-80 cents tops. Plus you know what you're getting. Not all shops are honest and created equal. There have been shops that water down juices and everything else. You make it, you know what you're vaping and the quality is what you make it with your mixing ability and the flavors you buy. I love diying my juice. Even if money were not a option and I could vape 60ml of $100 dolls juice I would still DIY. I do buy some juices from companies here and there that I like, but 99% of my stuff is living room brew.

Rubbermaid container huh , show off , i'll have one of those one day . cardboard box is getting it done for me .

I would love something as advanced as a TV tray though , "wow" now that would be the definition of success , especially a metal fold up model .

 

[Smoky Blue]

Rubbermaid container huh , show off , i'll have one of those one day . cardboard box is getting it done for me .

I would love something as advanced as a TV tray though , "wow" now that would be the definition of success , especially a metal one and not wood.

i use a metal tray to mix on.. contains spills should i happen to get too umm excited

 

[VH fan]

i use a metal tray to mix on.. contains spills should i happen to get too umm excited

Does it tip over if you look at it the wrong way , those are really sweet .

 

[Iamme]

i use a metal tray to mix on.. contains spills should i happen to get too umm excited

Lol. I lay out one of my thick hand towels that I stole for a vape rag. It soaks it up and it doesn't get on the table. I build over them too. Just fold it when you're done shake it in the trash can and clean up is done. Nothing worse than finding that stray wire that shot across the room when you clipped it with a bare foot lol. It kills your day real quick.

 

[Real Extract in Seattle]

There is a difference between making juice and being in the business of making juice.
Anybody can make their own juice - it can be and usually is very inexpensive. More power to DIY.
BUT setting up a real business to make juice is another matter.
Putting together a manufacturing space, production equipment, product development, packaging, marketing and licensing is a very different matter.
I resent paying $15 a pound for wild mushrooms at the store so I load up the car and go pick them myself.
If you want cheap juice and the price is the primary requirement you need to buy juice mass produced in China from unknown ingredients packaged and shipped to the local gas station or mini-mart. Or make it yourself. That is a viable reasonable alternative.
There are quality levels of product from cheap to expensive. They are not all the same (even though most are in my opinion). Some are over-priced, some are promoted as premium that aren't, some really are high quality, have great customer service and priced accordingly. If you are looking for super quality and consistency you must be willing to pay for that, if you are not willing to pay for it you certainly won't get it - you will be disappointed. You can not buy the best for the least - it is a universal law that is violated everywhere by the marketing of products in this culture - and we fall for it.
If you want hand made small batch artisanal juice that fits an aficionados flavor profile then you will pay considerably more as it will not be made in a factory in China by unskilled low paid assembly workers but from a source in the US or EU that has high labor costs because somebody that is really into the specialized product is doing the work and using skilled labor. The cost of this labor is the biggest cost - the juice component cost is small - but that is not what we are paying for.

 

[Time]

i use a metal tray to mix on.. contains spills should i happen to get too umm excited

LOL. I should have another cup of coffee. I read "contains pills should I happen to get too umm excited".

 

[InMyImage]

i use a metal tray to mix on.. contains spills should i happen to get too umm excited

Please don't take this wrong, because I like you... but I just can't resist poking at people when they serve it up on a platter...

I thought you mixed all your juice in an ISO/Federal certified cleanroom

Love all your help for the DIY'ers, so please don't hold this against me in the future by giving me a "vomit" concoction

 

[InMyImage]

There is a difference between making juice and being in the business of making juice.
Anybody can make their own juice - it can be and usually is very inexpensive. More power to DIY.
BUT setting up a real business to make juice is another matter.
Putting together a manufacturing space, production equipment, product development, packaging, marketing and licensing is a very different matter.
I resent paying $15 a pound for wild mushrooms at the store so I load up the car and go pick them myself.
If you want cheap juice and the price is the primary requirement you need to buy juice mass produced in China from unknown ingredients packaged and shipped to the local gas station or mini-mart. Or make it yourself. That is a viable reasonable alternative.
There are quality levels of product from cheap to expensive. They are not all the same (even though most are in my opinion). Some are over-priced, some are promoted as premium that aren't, some really are high quality, have great customer service and priced accordingly. If you are looking for super quality and consistency you must be willing to pay for that, if you are not willing to pay for it you certainly won't get it - you will be disappointed. You can not buy the best for the least - it is a universal law that is violated everywhere by the marketing of products in this culture - and we fall for it.
If you want hand made small batch artisanal juice that fits an aficionados flavor profile then you will pay considerably more as it will not be made in a factory in China by unskilled low paid assembly workers but from a source in the US or EU that has high labor costs because somebody that is really into the specialized product is doing the work and using skilled labor. The cost of this labor is the biggest cost - the juice component cost is small - but that is not what we are paying for.

Something else that is worth pointing out is that juice makers like yourself and @VaporWatch make a lot of the ingredient flavors using natural extracts which are significantly more expensive to produce than buying a commercial flavoring from companies like TFA, FA, CAP, etc.
And quite frankly, so far the only retail juices I have tried so far that I would be willing to spend money on are the ones that average about a $1 per ml. Everything cheaper that I have tried just hasn't had any flavor to speak of. Fortunately none of them have been bad, just serously lacking.

 

[VH fan]

There's a good thread in the DIY juice section and it's titled "What makes a juice premium" , very good answers . I have numerous shops that try to tell me their juice is worth it because their juice makers are chemists and they try to tell you that juice mixing is extremely complicated and only well schooled people should attempt it .

Please don't take this wrong, because I like you... but I just can't resist poking at people when they serve it up on a platter...

I thought you mixed all your juice in an ISO/Federal certified cleanroom

Love all your help for the DIY'ers, so please don't hold this against me in the future by giving me a "vomit" concoction

Don't worry about Smokey blue , she can dish it and take it lol.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Something else that is worth pointing out is that juice makers like yourself and @VaporWatch make a lot of the ingredient flavors using natural extracts which are significantly more expensive to produce than buying a commercial flavoring from companies like TFA, FA, CAP, etc.
And quite frankly, so far the only retail juices I have tried so far that I would be willing to spend money on are the ones that average about a $1 per ml. Everything cheaper that I have tried just hasn't had any flavor to speak of. Fortunately none of them have been bad, just serously lacking.

What liquids does VaporWatch make? I mean, does he have his own line? I didn't know that if he does. Honestly though, MOST eliqiuid companies, even the Cali-based-dollar-per-mL vendors are using off-the-shelf flavorings (even if not very well known flavoring companies), no matter what they say -- whether in some small part or totally.

In the case of tobaccos (NETs), that's different, but not complicated; and also not exempt from using standard flavorings to augment those extracts.

An open letter to DIYers

 

[Smoky Blue]

Please don't take this wrong, because I like you... but I just can't resist poking at people when they serve it up on a platter...

I thought you mixed all your juice in an ISO/Federal certified cleanroom

Love all your help for the DIY'ers, so please don't hold this against me in the future by giving me a "vomit" concoction

IMI, I do mix in a lab lmao.. I dont like chasing spills.. would you?

and yes, I like you too..

 

[VH fan]

How can anyone not like SB , is that even possible ? She's a mainstay and a very valuable part of the VU , always extremely willing to help and will never put you on her "ignore list" unless you have proven to be a big time A hole .

Got to love her.

 

[Smoky Blue]

How can anyone not like SB , is that even possible ? She's a mainstay and a very valuable part of the VU , always extremely willing to help and will never put you on her "ignore list" unless you have proven to be a big time A hole .

Got to love her.

aww VH.. you just made my day!! wow.. I am blown away!! lol.. I am.. *shakes my head and laughs..

thank you very much, i was in need

 

[Smoky Blue]

Best reply of the thread.

I do DIY juice. But then, I do DIY allot of my own food too.

I love choices!

Time, those are some very lovely beans you have there my my! toss in some ham bits and breakfast is done!

 

[KillaGT]

juice is a cash cow

 

[msgnyc]

Lol. I lay out one of my thick hand towels that I stole for a vape rag. It soaks it up and it doesn't get on the table. I build over them too. Just fold it when you're done shake it in the trash can and clean up is done. Nothing worse than finding that stray wire that shot across the room when you clipped it with a bare foot lol. It kills your day real quick.

The solution the avoiding that stray wire is to take one of the magnets typically used in the switch for mechs and put it around the post inside your nail clippers. Grabs them snipped ends before they go flying off. ;-)

Hell, I just mix my diy sitting on my couch. The armrests are huge and flat on my couch. If any happens to spill I just wipe it up. Couch is leather. Lol

 

[Smoky Blue]

The solution the avoiding that stray wire is to take one of the magnets typically used in the switch for mechs and put it around the post inside your nail clippers. Grabs them snipped ends before they go flying off. ;-)

that is a heck of an idea..
i use wire snips.. but maybe a magnetic bar on my snips.. shouldn't take much!

thanks!

 

[msgnyc]

NP. I've been victim to that kanthal splinter on numerous occasions. I had to find a way to stop it after awhile. That crap hurts. Lol

 

[OB61887]

Just bought www.amazon.com/Flexible-Magnet-Tape-Thick-Width/dp/B005HY9XFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416690257&sr=8-1&keywords=magnetic+strip. Will be using this on my wire cutters and see if it is strong enough.

 

[Iamme]

The solution the avoiding that stray wire is to take one of the magnets typically used in the switch for mechs and put it around the post inside your nail clippers. Grabs them snipped ends before they go flying off. ;-)

Hell, I just mix my diy sitting on my couch. The armrests are huge and flat on my couch. If any happens to spill I just wipe it up. Couch is leather. Lol

My sofa has so many vaping scars it's sad. Sit a mod strait up with a dripper leaning against the back. Come back from another room to see it laying on its side with a juice spot under the atty and cats looking at you like, ya we did it, prove it. What you gonna do about it? The fun part of having four hybrid cats in the house is they bulldozer everthing over and bulldoze it off tables with their head if they can.

 

[OB61887]

That's because cats are evil. You know it. They know you know it. They just don't care.

Solution. Get a dog. Dogs are awesome.

 

[msgnyc]

Lol. I love all animals, but do not currently have any cats anymore. They are troublemakers tho.

Dogs are children. Cats are teenagers.

 

[Iamme]

That's because cats are evil. You know it. They know you know it. They just don't care.

Solution. Get a dog. Dogs are awesome.

They are not normal cats. Plus they play fetch , walk on leashes and try to lick your face. Its more like a dog in a cats body. They are smarter than dogs and more sly, but that is due to the wild blood in them. They also have a better sniffer than dogs do. I'm a cat person. I had a Rot and I loved him to death, but I've always been a cat guy.

 

[InMyImage]

What liquids does VaporWatch make? I mean, does he have his own line? I didn't know that if he does. Honestly though, MOST eliqiuid companies, even the Cali-based-dollar-per-mL vendors are using off-the-shelf flavorings (even if not very well known flavoring companies), no matter what they say -- whether in some small part or totally.

In the case of tobaccos (NETs), that's different, but not complicated; and also not exempt from using standard flavorings to augment those extracts.

An open letter to DIYers

@VaporWatch or @VapeOn86 can correct me if I'm wrong, but his flavors are 12:50 and WTF, both are worth spending money on, neither are outrageously priced.
He licenses the Mad Murdock, Riverbottom Fog Sauce, and Wacky Vapes and mixes them directly (not certain if that is true for every flavor).
From talking to him, my impression is that quite a few of the juices use naturally extracted flavorings or specialized flavorings that are not readily available to the DIY crowd.

 

[VH fan]

aww VH.. you just made my day!! wow.. I am blown away!! lol.. I am.. *shakes my head and laughs..

thank you very much, i was in need

Well i figured if i sucked up to you, you would be much less likely to sell me your leftover crap , kidding, YOU ROCK !!!

 

[Chainvapor]

If any of you are looking for juice at a great price I would suggest you check out Dr. Crimmy's V-liquid. It is $20 for a 60ml bottle and $30 for a 125ml bottle. I have used about 5 or 6 of his flavors so far and they are EXCELLENT. The Overdose line is his specialty and is a French Vanilla Custard that is very good. Anyway, if you are looking for some great juice at a great price........Check them out. - HERE

Happy Vaping Everyone!
CV

 

[OB61887]

Just bought 180 ml. Looking forward to it.

 

[VH fan]

The solution the avoiding that stray wire is to take one of the magnets typically used in the switch for mechs and put it around the post inside your nail clippers. Grabs them snipped ends before they go flying off. ;-)

Hell, I just mix my diy sitting on my couch. The armrests are huge and flat on my couch. If any happens to spill I just wipe it up. Couch is leather. Lol

You wouldn't have a solution for avoiding becoming completely entangled when your finger slips off the spool of Kanthal would you ?

 

[VH fan]

If any of you are looking for juice at a great price I would suggest you check out Dr. Crimmy's V-liquid. It is $20 for a 60ml bottle and $30 for a 125ml bottle. I have used about 5 or 6 of his flavors so far and they are EXCELLENT. The Overdose line is his specialty and is a French Vanilla Custard that is very good. Anyway, if you are looking for some great juice at a great price........Check them out. - HERE

Happy Vaping Everyone!
CV

Whats fantastic for one may be horrific to another , most usually won't go for that big of a bottle until they know they like it.

 

[InMyImage]

IMI, I do mix in a lab lmao.. I dont like chasing spills.. would you?

and yes, I like you too..

Nope, so I put my board in a pillow case

Protects me from splinters too!

 

[msgnyc]

You wouldn't have a solution for avoiding becoming completely entangled when your finger slips off the spool of Kanthal would you ?

Haha ironically enough, maybe soon.
Idea came to me a few weeks back when we ran outta dental floss... Haha

I'm in the process of prototyping a small enclosure for my kanthal disks to go into. Basically you insert your kanthal disk into the housing and then thread the kanthal into a small opening at the top then secured by a magnet or clamp. Then close the housing. Just pull as much kanthal as you'll need and the disk will spin freely in the housing keeping things tidy.

At the top would be a small hole (in the housing and thru the kanthal disk center) that I can insert one of my drill bits/screwdrivers into so I can build directly on top of the housing.

 

[Time]

You wouldn't have a solution for avoiding becoming completely entangled when your finger slips off the spool of Kanthal would you ?

Don't let your finger slip off the spool of Kanthal? Just trying to help.