Why is cleanliness so important in eliquid manufacturing?

[Mythical_OD]

So Ive thinking more and more about getting into DIY with e liquid once my stash of juice runs low (which god knows when that will be), and have been wondering to myself why a sterile environment is so crucial when making e liquid. Whats the reason? Is it just because e liquid is a consumable and is put into your body so you just want it to be clean? Or is it another more important reason?

I used to be big into home mycology (mushroom growing) and in that hobby a sterile environment is absolutely crucial. Just 2 rouge mold spores could totally ruin an entire batch, so I have some stuff left over from that (still air box, pressure cooker, test tubes, culture tubes, etc, etc), and might just have a flow hood kicking around somewhere. If I were to get into DIY liquid, is it a good idea to work in front of a flow hood or at least in a still air box? Or is that overkill?

I ask because e liquid seems to be heavy on sugar or other sweeteners, so I could see it being a breeding ground for mold. Is that the reason for cleanliness?

 

[BigNasty]

you missed the dr. scummy open air shitter mixing station with bugs and shit.

 

[itsmenotyou]

So Ive thinking more and more about getting into DIY with e liquid once my stash of juice runs low (which god knows when that will be), and have been wondering to myself why a sterile environment is so crucial when making e liquid. Whats the reason? Is it just because e liquid is a consumable and is put into your body so you just want it to be clean? Or is it another more important reason?

I used to be big into home mycology (mushroom growing) and in that hobby a sterile environment is absolutely crucial. Just 2 rouge mold spores could totally ruin an entire batch, so I have some stuff left over from that (still air box, pressure cooker, test tubes, culture tubes, etc, etc), and might just have a flow hood kicking around somewhere. If I were to get into DIY liquid, is it a good idea to work in front of a flow hood or at least in a still air box? Or is that overkill?

I ask because e liquid seems to be heavy on sugar or other sweeteners, so I could see it being a breeding ground for mold. Is that the reason for cleanliness?

To answer your "overkill" question it's all up to you. I mix in the back bedroom/office of our house on a old entertainment center. Just make sure I take a clean dishcloth and and clean up afterwards.
I only mix for myself and my gf though.
YMMV.


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[itsmenotyou]

you missed the dr. scummy open air shitter mixing station with bugs and shit.

Ahh that's what my juice is missing damnit

sent from a dumb operated smartphone

 

[Mythical_OD]

Well Im obviously gonna mix in a sterile environment and am up to snuff on how to sterilize and clean equipment and spaces for medical procedure level cleanliness from my time working with mushrooms, Im more asking what the reason is for it in eliquid mixing and what the repurcussions could be if its not followed.

 

[BigNasty]

as lon g as you are keeping boogers, fingers, snot and other body stuff out of the mixing surfaces and juice.. it should be ok.

 

[itsmenotyou]

Well Im obviously gonna mix in a sterile environment and am up to snuff on how to sterilize and clean equipment and spaces for medical procedure level cleanliness from my time working with mushrooms, Im more asking what the reason is for it in eliquid mixing and what the repurcussions could be if its not followed.

Do you plan on mixing to sell or just for yourself? I think that is the biggest question.
if it's for you just do your standard cleaning that YOU would do.
If it's for sale make sure your lab is certified cleanroom. The last thing a need is for something stupid happening.
Also afaik I haven't heard of anything happening from mixing in a unclean (not dirty) environment but I haven't searched because I mix in a clean area and have no issues with my juice

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[Mythical_OD]

Itll be just for my own experimenting with flavors, my own supply, and for my own amusement. I really have no plans ever of starting a liquid company or selling or supplying liquid (unless I stumble upon some amazingly unique and delicious flavor combination, but odds on that are low since the market is already totally flooded and companies are cutting prices like crazy to compete.)

 

[fratervapor]

have been wondering to myself why a sterile environment is so crucial when making e liquid. Whats the reason?

It's not. DIYers say like to say "sterile" and rarely ever mean that. Or don't know the difference.

I used to be big into home mycology (mushroom growing) and in that hobby a sterile environment is absolutely crucial. Just 2 rouge mold spores could totally ruin an entire batch, so I have some stuff left over from that (still air box, pressure cooker, test tubes, culture tubes, etc, etc),

Right, yeast rancher here. Our extracurricular requirements for sterility are IMO unnecessary in this hobby.

 

[BigNasty]

I mix clean, no chance I would say sterile.
I have zero set up to maintain and sterile environment or field.

 

[OBDave]

I believe I mix cleaner than many commercial lines - there are many that use dedicated clean rooms and that's admirable, but there are also plenty of Dr. Crimmy's, Texas Rebels, local B&Ms that mix on the counter right in the middle of the showroom, etc...

"Sterile" is a tricky word - do most home DIYers mix in a sterile environment (specifically a dedicated clean room complete with air locks and filters)? No. Do we use sterilized equipment? I don't know about others, but I've found that sterilizing solution used for food-grade equipment in restaurant kitchens is cheap (150 tabs to create 150 gallons of foodservice sanitizer is like $7 on Amazon) and effective in getting residual scents off mixing equipment between batches. Since syringes are cheap, I don't bother trying to preserve them by covering the markings or anything else, and retire most after a few weeks' use (a few months for people that don't mix a whole bunch).

In short, if you're only mixing your own liquid, I'd suggest doing so in a fashion that's at least as clean as you'd feel comfortable preparing your food - the level of sloppiness you'll tolerate is your call, but I'm kind of a clean freak and like to "sterilize" (I know lab technicians will disagree with my restaurant-industry definition here) my kitchen before I start making dinner every night...

 

[AmandaD]

So Ive thinking more and more about getting into DIY with e liquid once my stash of juice runs low (which god knows when that will be), and have been wondering to myself why a sterile environment is so crucial when making e liquid. Whats the reason? Is it just because e liquid is a consumable and is put into your body so you just want it to be clean? Or is it another more important reason?

I used to be big into home mycology (mushroom growing) and in that hobby a sterile environment is absolutely crucial. Just 2 rouge mold spores could totally ruin an entire batch, so I have some stuff left over from that (still air box, pressure cooker, test tubes, culture tubes, etc, etc), and might just have a flow hood kicking around somewhere. If I were to get into DIY liquid, is it a good idea to work in front of a flow hood or at least in a still air box? Or is that overkill?

I ask because e liquid seems to be heavy on sugar or other sweeteners, so I could see it being a breeding ground for mold. Is that the reason for cleanliness?

Nobody uses real sugar in juice - sucralose maybe, but not actual sugar. For commercial purposes absolutely cleanliness is important. For DIY however, I suspect it's not much different than cooking dinner...

 

[Twiztidwoundz]

I just put some newspapers down before I start mixing.


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[Squonk]

Don't over think this. Just get started. The only thing I somewhat sterilize are by juice bottles and droppers. Once I clean them I shake 91% isopropyl alcohol(rubbing) in them and let them dry with the mouth angled downward on a clean towel. They dry faster with no residue. I don't feel there's a real big need to be sterile, just clean.

 

[SailCat]

Is it just because e liquid is a consumable and is put into your body so
you just want it to be clean?

Yes.

Don't over think this. Just get started. The only thing I somewhat sterilize are by juice bottles and droppers. Once I clean them I shake 91% isopropyl alcohol(rubbing) in them and let them dry with the mouth angled downward on a clean towel. They dry faster with no residue. I don't feel there's a real big need to be sterile, just clean.

Exact;y. For myself as well, in any case.

Clean tools, ultra-clean bottles and the cat's not allowed in the 'clean room.'

 

[lirruping]

I think the question here is what are the risks (if any) of a lax attitude toward cleanliness when mixing. I've never come across any information discussing this in much detail--only a "cleaner is better" attitude, especially when it comes to commercial mixing. Which makes sense. But it would be nice to know exactly why and what...

From my (limited) understanding, there are few, if any, ingredients likely to be used in eliquid that would be susceptible to biodegradation. Of course, nobody wants to inhale vaporized mold or other bacterial stuff. As long as there is nothing in the eliquid that is likely to breed bacteria--and a common ingredient, PG has preservative/antibacterial properties, I think Amanda said it best-- it's a lot like cooking supper.

 

[Heabob]

Simple Answer
Clean, Yes
Sterile, No

 

[fratervapor]

I've found that sterilizing solution used for food-grade equipment in restaurant kitchens is cheap (150 tabs to create 150 gallons of foodservice sanitizer is like $7 on Amazon) and effective in getting residual scents off mixing equipment between batches.

Sanitizing solution, not sterilizing solution.

...
but I'm kind of a clean freak and like to "sterilize" (I know lab technicians will disagree with my restaurant-industry definition here)

I'm so predictable.

 

[fratervapor]

I think the question here is what are the risks (if any) of a lax attitude toward cleanliness when mixing. I've never come across any information discussing this in much detail--only a "cleaner is better" attitude, especially when it comes to commercial mixing. Which makes sense. But it would be nice to know exactly why and what...

I'd like to know, too.

My wholly unscientific WAG guess is chemical contamination would be more of an issue in vapables than biological contamination. There's not enough water in e-juice to support much microflora/fauna, and anything that did end up in there would be suspended in a hot aerosol for some period of time during atomization.

 

[Chrispdx]

I think everyone has hit the sterile vs clean. Yup. I love a clean area. Sometimes alittle ocd on the cleaning prior and after mixing.

The only reason, for me Atleast, I'm making a conscious effort to be better with what I'm putting in my body...so with my eliquids, I like the idea, by choice, I'm mixing without things like diactyle (spelling error I know and there will always be debate on this ) and that I'm mixing is the cleanest possible area reaulting in a final product I feel good about.

So although my cleaning stardards may sometimes may not be required, but in the end it makes me feel good.

 

[AndriaD]

So Ive thinking more and more about getting into DIY with e liquid once my stash of juice runs low (which god knows when that will be), and have been wondering to myself why a sterile environment is so crucial when making e liquid. Whats the reason? Is it just because e liquid is a consumable and is put into your body so you just want it to be clean? Or is it another more important reason?

I used to be big into home mycology (mushroom growing) and in that hobby a sterile environment is absolutely crucial. Just 2 rouge mold spores could totally ruin an entire batch, so I have some stuff left over from that (still air box, pressure cooker, test tubes, culture tubes, etc, etc), and might just have a flow hood kicking around somewhere. If I were to get into DIY liquid, is it a good idea to work in front of a flow hood or at least in a still air box? Or is that overkill?

I ask because e liquid seems to be heavy on sugar or other sweeteners, so I could see it being a breeding ground for mold. Is that the reason for cleanliness?

No sterility necessary. PG is naturally anti-microbial. I think VG may be also, to a certain extent. Any normal kitchen will suffice -- if it's clean enough to cook and eat there, it's clean enough to make ejuice. If you make large quantities, you might consider adding a smidge of citric acid, which is also extremely anti-microbial; you don't need enough to affect flavor, maybe .5%-1% of a 10% solution. Not only does it increase the juice's resistance to microbe infestation, it will arrest the steeping process at the point at which you add the citric acid -- so if the juice is best at 1 or 2 or however many weeks, that's where you add the citric acid.

Andria

 

[Tcar]

There should be no sugar in eliquid. (glycerine is a sugar alcohol). It'll caramelize all over your atty/coil. Sucralose is not biologically reactive/metabolized by bacteria. Ethyl Maltol is similar in that it is not bug food.

A clean and sanitary kitchen is fine for home juice mixing. Nothing much is gonna live in juice anyways. . . PG kills spores/bacteria and VG sucks the water right out of the little buggers. "Clean rooms" refer to particulate matter in the air, not biological contamination. Bacteria are much smaller than what clean rooms filter for.

I want to laugh like a jackal when people go on about their sterile juice mixing. Bullsh!t. Most people don't know what "sterile" actually means. There is no such thing as sterile in open air. Air is not sterile. You are not sterile. There's anywhere between 1.3 to 1 to 10 to 1 more bacterial cells in you than human cells at any one time. You pump almost 400 cubic feet of filthy room air through your lungs in a day, more if you actually exercise.

There is not such thing as a commercial "sterilizing" rinse. Sanitizing, yes. Sanitizing involves chemicals. StarSan is one I've used a lot of (in homebrewing beer). It's a food grade acid and a bit of food grade surfactant. My wife does sterile processing for a hospital. Sterilization requires heat and chemicals: a gas process (formaldehyde, peroxide) or steam autoclave, radiation in some cases, and a barrier (sterile packaging).

I've sterilized flasks before for yeast cultures and it requires baking them in the oven at with a cap (aluminum foil works) over the mouth of the flask to keep stray yeast/bacteria in the air out or cooking it in a pressure cooker. The second you open it (cap or pressure cooker), the clock starts ticking and contamination can result.

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_sanitization_and_sterilization

 

[Squonk]

I vaped an eyelash. It was in my full tank and I wasn't dumping it. That eyelash was there till I re-wicked days later. At least I knew it was my eyelash. Tasted like chicken.

 

[Tcar]

I vaped an eyelash. It was in my full tank and I wasn't dumping it. That eyelash was there till I re-wicked days later. At least I knew it was my eyelash. Tasted like chicken.

Downside to chuff caps on RDA's: dog hairs end up on wick. At least it's my dog.

 

[Teresa P]

The way I see it is this: I can and do take every precaution available to me to ensure cleanliness in my mixing. All bottles and utensils are soaked in scalding hot, soapy water and a capful of bleach. Everything is rinsed a few times in scalding hot water and then run through a baby bottle sterilizer, then air dried. It makes me feel better to do all this. BUT....if a bottle of juice I've made with all this "tender loving care" ends up riding around in someone's sweaty pocket all day, or inadvertently left open on someone's coffee table for any length of time, or batted around the floor by their curious cat, or even handled with someone's greasy, grubby hands, I just don't feel that all my efforts are doing that much good. But I'll continue to do it for my own peace of mind.

 

[kimber]

I'm a medical technologist, I work in a hospital lab. Wanna know what we use to clean equipment? Clorox. A 25% bleach solution cleans anything here that isn't disposable. It's also what I use to clean my mixing room. Is it sterile? Of course not. But it's clean. As clean as I can get it. I agree with Teresa,,, I make my stuff as clean as I can, I mix in a room that's as clean as I can get it but I have no control of what happens to that bottle of juice once it's left my hands.


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[fratervapor]

I'm a medical technologist, I work in a hospital lab. Wanna know what we use to clean equipment? Clorox. A 25% bleach solution cleans anything here that isn't disposable.

Chlorine bleach can be used at lower (no-rinse) dilutions if it's pH-adjusted to prime bug-killing range. The idea comes from Charlie Talley who used to run Clorox bleach production in the US. He's also the inventor of the abovementioned StarSan sanitizer.

Warning: pH adjusting chlorine solutions requires both accurate measurements and adherence to procedure for safety. Like working with 100mg nic or something.

 

[Tcar]

I'm a medical technologist, I work in a hospital lab. Wanna know what we use to clean equipment? Clorox. A 25% bleach solution cleans anything here that isn't disposable. It's also what I use to clean my mixing room. Is it sterile? Of course not. But it's clean. As clean as I can get it. I agree with Teresa,,, I make my stuff as clean as I can, I mix in a room that's as clean as I can get it but I have no control of what happens to that bottle of juice once it's left my hands.


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There are basically three levels of clean.

Sanitized: most of the bugs are killed, say 99.9%

Disinfected: pretty much everything killed off, say 99.99%. About as clean as something can get outside of an autoclave.

Sterilized: 99.999% dead. Damn near as lifeless as the surface of the moon.

In homebrewing beer you have to sanitize all your equipment because while yeasts are everywhere and you need to knock them down to give your tame yeast a chance to take over the ferment. Beer wort is prime yeast food, being that it's basically sugar water. Sanitization is important in food preparation because, duh, bacteria like food.

E juice is different. There is nothing that I know of (aside from maybe some strange bacteria that lives in a thermal vent) that eats PG. USP VG, while possibly being something bacteria could eat, is anhydrous and literally sucks the water out of the cells. Cross contamination of juice by foreign material, dust, whatever is on your hands is more important to watch out for.

Rinsing your mixing things with clean potable water, working in a clean space (clean work surfaces), not picking your nose/scratching your ass while mixing are all more practical and sensible steps for the DIY enthusiast.



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[RonJS]

In homebrewing beer you have to sanitize all your equipment because while yeasts are everywhere and you need to knock them down to give your tame yeast a chance to take over the ferment.

That's True!

(Unless one is homebrewing lambic and is doing so in the Senne River Valley, (south and west of Brussels))

Ron
---
"Oh mighty one in the heavens who created the mountains, the seas and beer."- Al Bundy

 

[lirruping]

I vaped an eyelash. It was in my full tank and I wasn't dumping it. That eyelash was there till I re-wicked days later. At least I knew it was my eyelash. Tasted like chicken.

I hope you made a wish

 

[Squonk]

I hope you made a wish

Of course I did.

 

[dre]

Cause it's entering your body. And you dont want Joe Bob with Fecal matter on his hands making your juice.

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[Tcar]

I found a hair one time in a 30ml bottle of Charlie Noble eliquid.

Mmmmm. "Premium."

That is about when I switched over to vaping pretty much 100 of my own DIY. Other than stray dog hairs (the hairs are stray, not my dogs) in my attys, my vaping has been 100% hair free.

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[SteveS45]

I use a piece of a PVC Panel on top of the washing machine for my Mixing Station. Water proof and easy to clean up if I spill a drop or two. To sell commercially produced products for human consumption you must adhere to FDA or other regulations. I often wonder about some of these "In House" e-Liquids that others talk about from the local B&M Vape Shops. How clean is the Mixing Station?

 

[Alter]

I have a oval piece of glass from a old brass makeup stand I have on my desk, under that a piece green felt so I can see better. I can drop hot coils without burning the desk along with cleanup is a matter of some isoprop and paper towels on the glass. I make a pile of used jars and jugs then use soap, water and scotchbrite to clean and to be sure all the residue is out of the jars cause intime you do get a cloudy residue inside the jars and mixing tobacco absolutes also leave a ring of cooties inside the jar that doesn't clean with just hot water.