How do you all feel about an expo banning clone sales. Only authentic mods will be sold by vendors. Would you attend?
Become a Patron!
Yoyr thoughts: Expo banning clone sales
- Thread starter VapingCuban
- Start date
GargoyleK1
Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I would…. EXPO's are great places were you get to meet great people and really good products. For me it would be an experience in and of itself. So I would definitely attend and take that opportunity to get to know some of the "real deal" vendors. I find that the personal touch for me makes it easier to spend the big coin on things.
tick22
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Their show, the can sit any rules they want.
It would be nice to see the real deals up close and personal. Most of us have clones and could not afford the real deal so seeing, touching and even learning about them would be a real thrill.
But that is just my 2-cents....
It would be nice to see the real deals up close and personal. Most of us have clones and could not afford the real deal so seeing, touching and even learning about them would be a real thrill.
But that is just my 2-cents....
I can't afford 100s of dollars for a 30$ mod, so no I wouldn't attend.
I suspect it is a really bad decision on their parts, I'm not the only poor vapor around.
Can you imagine if someone put on a clone only expo right beside them? The clone expo would be full, the rich folk expo would be empty.
I suspect it is a really bad decision on their parts, I'm not the only poor vapor around.
Can you imagine if someone put on a clone only expo right beside them? The clone expo would be full, the rich folk expo would be empty.
chris damron
Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Most definitely, a lot of moders and venders set up booths in hopes of picking up new wholesalers/retailers for them, and sometimes they have stock with them and will sell individual pieces for wholesale prices. That's how I got my vaporshark dna30 ;]. At least that's how it goes for trade shows, not sure what sort of deal the Summit is.
Nikkita6
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Reviewer
Vape Media
Member For 5 Years
I agree .. at this point, to make any decision, or enforce any rules that either divides, or alienates a large portion of this community is just stupid IMO. I think the clone hateration is so ridiculous seeing how demand determines the market. Saying No to clones, is saying no to the masses of vapers who buy them.
I wouldn't attend because I wouldn't find it fun to look at a bunch of device that I will most likely not buy ... not my idea of a good time.
GargoyleK1
Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Now that is a very good point!
Scuba-Matt
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
We share the same fear.
Scuba-Matt
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
The Vapors Expo in Miami had a few mod clones, Attys were another story, I bet 90% of the atty's for sale were clones.
I think a lot of mod makers are missing the point. Someone new into vaping isn't going to pay $130 for a real Kayfun. Or mech, But if the try a clone and like it they may buy the real deal.
I think a lot of mod makers are missing the point. Someone new into vaping isn't going to pay $130 for a real Kayfun. Or mech, But if the try a clone and like it they may buy the real deal.
StrappedKaos
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
The part that confused me when I had first seen the post about it was this...
They state that 250+ vendors will be there and none will have clones, I understand that clones are copies legit authentics but.... are their really 250+ authentic sellers? Lets say that maybe 10 of the booths sale others authentics, most have a set price point to sell at. Will all 10 have the same mod for the same price? Kinda pointless, right?
If their are 250+ makers there with their own designs then it makes sense, but there won't be so its more like 250+ vendors and almost all will have similar products and prices. ..
They state that 250+ vendors will be there and none will have clones, I understand that clones are copies legit authentics but.... are their really 250+ authentic sellers? Lets say that maybe 10 of the booths sale others authentics, most have a set price point to sell at. Will all 10 have the same mod for the same price? Kinda pointless, right?
If their are 250+ makers there with their own designs then it makes sense, but there won't be so its more like 250+ vendors and almost all will have similar products and prices. ..
They can do whatever they want , but why tic people off . I'm with Strapped on the products , they will all be selling the same thing . Maybe with all the competition , the buyer will get a big break on prices , but maybe not. Is the parking all Fords or all Chevy's , no Dodge allowed in the parking lot , those people have to walk ??? So do all the people who go, all have to wear the same shirt ?? Is it boxers or briefs ,do they check underwear , at the door . Getting to be like looney tunes !!!!
Why exclude 90% of your market share? Most vapers can't afford a authentic mod, or, like myself, I chose not to spend that kind of money and spend it on other items.
Kudos to them for creating a exclusive show for a limited following.
Kudos to them for creating a exclusive show for a limited following.
I went to the expo in vegas, lots of very nice hardware on display. Everything that caught my eye was either not for sale or $250 and up. I did get to try alot of new juices that I kept hearing about which probably saved me a bunch of money on mail order sampling. However, I must call BS on them touting that there were no clones there because I seen one vendor trying to pass off cana clones with logos as authentic. I just so happened to be holding my no logo cloupor clone in my hand while they were telling the guy next to me they were authentic.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Absintheur
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Why buy a clone when there are original designs available for the same price? I think the majority of clone buyers do so in order to try and pass their copy off as an original. Be honest...would you have bought the clones you own if they did not have the logos and names on them? I also suspect most clone buyers have never created an original design of any kind with the hopes of supporting their family only to see a company rip them off and take sales away that would have provided food for the designers family.
I would wholeheartedly support a "no clone" expo.
I would wholeheartedly support a "no clone" expo.
Some are foolish enough to pay even more (some would even pay that much for a starter kit comprising two egos, a bundle of ce4s, don't forget the tobacco juice, zippy case, ...
Sorry I still stand by my decision to not pay hundreds of dollars for what is essentially a metal tube with a 510 connection a switch and some different engraving to differentiate it from all the other metal tubes with a 510 connection and switch. In order for me to constitute the price of an authentic it would have to be something really special. Intricate machining or such. But it is their show and they can do what they want. But they need not be surprised if the vendor sales are down because budget shoppers won't have anything to buy.
Scuba-Matt
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
The promoters of the show better make it a formal affair while their at it. Tuxedos and gowns.
Absintheur
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I went to Vape Bash in Chicago last April (have been every year) and every vender that had original high end mods sold out within minutes of the doors opening. Vaping supplies and juice sales were very good as well. I would imagine an Expo with all original maker mods would do very well other than the problem of selling out of product very quickly.
You know, I saw a program the other day. In china they have clones of everything. Everything. They even have clones of cars. All driving about legally. BMW took a company to court for cloning it's 4x4 and they lost! Must be cheap to live in china. I wonder if they'd let authentics if they had an expo
I would never go to a show that sells only "authentic devices". It would be like going to a gun show that only sold expensive guns. It would be fun to look at, for about 10 minutes, and then it would wear out quickly. After all, my old Winchester will blow birds out of the sky just as well as a 5000$ shotgun. I feel the same with mods, why spend hundreds of dollars on one that isn't any better than the cheaper version. That's not to say that expensive things don't have their place, because they do, but not in my life. I prefer to spend my money a little more wisely than that.
I have lots of clone (obviously bc I'm not dumb) but I did buy the authentic black hawk. I can't big it up or say it's better than anything else. But I'm glad I bought it. It doesn't help me vape better. It's just a luxury and means a lot to me
Absintheur
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I would point out not all "authentic" mods are expensive. There are many companies making low cost original mods, the Natural, Magneto, Bolt, and Diablo re a few that come to mind.
Yes a mod is basically a battery holder...so why buy one that steals the good name of a designer rather than buying a no name version?
Yes a mod is basically a battery holder...so why buy one that steals the good name of a designer rather than buying a no name version?
It's disappointing however that many many companies which can only trade because the free market made it possible for them to trade are now price fixing and banning resellers and vendors who sell their products below their fixed price. Innokin, Vape Smith, MCV who make the panzer, lots. Vape Smith who make the Castle rda were announcing on Facebook not to buy from a certain reputable vendor here (because they'd sold a Castle rda at discount during their sales). It makes me feel like returning their spite by buying clones
I own one clone , if someone owns nothing but clones ,good for them . Buy anything you want .More people buy clones than the real things.Is it right or wrong , its what they want to do with their cash, period. Look at any box mod over 200$ , they all look the same !!!! Maybe a different paint job . Are they high priced clones? Every one buying anything looks for cheaper . The public is showing , if it's to high priced they don't want it . That's the free market.!!
For crying out loud...no one is trying to pass off their 1:1 clone as an authentic...geesh...stop it...we like the way they look and they are priced the way we like it...that's about it...the Expo is apparently targeting people like you to attend...you are their exclusive market...most of us arent and we wouldnt likely attend...pretty simple...
In all reality, lots of manufacturers (not just in this industry), dictate at what price point their resellers can sell their product. It's a common practice.
Scuba-Matt
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I would like to see the clones put up against the originals in a challenge. Cover both with brown paper, put the same atty & build in them and same brand fully charged battery. Let people try them to see if they can tell the clone from the original.
We did this at my local B&M with the EHpro, Hcigar and original Kayfun. The results were interesting. Most couldn't tell any difference. Some thought the clone was the high end atty. Others got it right.
We did this at my local B&M with the EHpro, Hcigar and original Kayfun. The results were interesting. Most couldn't tell any difference. Some thought the clone was the high end atty. Others got it right.
I can see banning copies that include trademarks. Taking it further than that is ridiculous considering there aren't that many completely original ideas in vaping.
I had a design stolen in college. Customer didn't want it and was supposed to destroy it. Once it was free he must've wanted it, cast it and sold it, and then a friend made a mold of it and sold copies. Plus I'm guessing someone from college either stole the idea, someone got the idea from one of the copies or it's just one of those things. People come up with similar ideas all the time. People also steal ideas all the time.
Welcome to the wonderful world of business, get over it or patent your work (good luck since odds are your vaping idea is a copy itself) and hire a group of lawyers.
I had a design stolen in college. Customer didn't want it and was supposed to destroy it. Once it was free he must've wanted it, cast it and sold it, and then a friend made a mold of it and sold copies. Plus I'm guessing someone from college either stole the idea, someone got the idea from one of the copies or it's just one of those things. People come up with similar ideas all the time. People also steal ideas all the time.
Welcome to the wonderful world of business, get over it or patent your work (good luck since odds are your vaping idea is a copy itself) and hire a group of lawyers.
People being shocked that a trade show like summit would ban clones is kinda funny imo.
Business and ethics aside, how about the safety issue? People would be fighting trust me. I know for a fact if the Surefire Vapor team or the owner of Dominus Mods saw clones of their work, heads would roll.
Lastly, if Vape Summit allowed clones, I bet you half the companies wouldn't even show up. The shows credibility would be in question for sure.
Business and ethics aside, how about the safety issue? People would be fighting trust me. I know for a fact if the Surefire Vapor team or the owner of Dominus Mods saw clones of their work, heads would roll.
Lastly, if Vape Summit allowed clones, I bet you half the companies wouldn't even show up. The shows credibility would be in question for sure.
I dont care what they sell there as long as Nikkita shows up wearing some skimpy outfit and hangs out with me for a while. You people have your priorities all ass backwards......
bsoplinger
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Don't know about the majority, I'm only me. I could care less if my Nemeses, Stingrays or 4nines have logos or not. All of my Kayfuns don't have logos. I never have told anyone that what I have is an original and never would. Sure I choose to purchase all my Stingrays with the first design instead of the devilfish because I liked how it looked better. But if somebody offered a Stingray with a different etching on it that I liked even more I'd get that. When I was wearing a fake Rolex 30 years ago, I'd correct anyone who thought it was real.
Plain and simple, a metal tube, switch and 510 connector just isn't worth $200+
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
I'd rather not have logos.
I think the knockoff/fake (because they're usually not clones but they often are fakes) makers should just go basic and start claiming everyone is a clone of them. Everyone's battery tube is a clone of a Screwdriver or Puresmoker (who's possibly a clone of someone else, not sure if they were the first side button).
I think the knockoff/fake (because they're usually not clones but they often are fakes) makers should just go basic and start claiming everyone is a clone of them. Everyone's battery tube is a clone of a Screwdriver or Puresmoker (who's possibly a clone of someone else, not sure if they were the first side button).
UncleRJ
Will write reviews for Beer!
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Reviewer
Moderator
I like looking at Vape Porn on the internet as well as the next vaper.
But I have trouble justifying $100 to $500 just to have the latest and greatest new and very shiny vape toy.
Wait 6 months or less and that same toy will be available for about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the original.
Like the Kayfun Nano Quartz tank. What were they like $60 when they first came out? now you can get them for $7 with a spare quartz glass tank.
And the full sized one for $19 shipped.
Gotta love them clones!
But I have trouble justifying $100 to $500 just to have the latest and greatest new and very shiny vape toy.
Wait 6 months or less and that same toy will be available for about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the original.
Like the Kayfun Nano Quartz tank. What were they like $60 when they first came out? now you can get them for $7 with a spare quartz glass tank.
And the full sized one for $19 shipped.
Gotta love them clones!
Nikkita6
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Reviewer
Vape Media
Member For 5 Years
I dont care what they sell there as long as Nikkita shows up wearing some skimpy outfit and hangs out with me for a while. You people have your priorities all ass backwards......
Ahaha ... well my darling, I can't promise that the outfit would be skimpy, but I can promise that you would like it.
Unless they're Chinese and phillipeenees who love to price fix. Having said that, I haven't seen the provari drop in price in 2 years either. Provape won't let you or they'll ban ya!
Scuba-Matt
Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Imitation is the biggest form of flattery.
It doesn't even cost $40 to make a $220 mech mod here in the USA. My wifes family has been in the design and manufacture business for 60 years, I have a pretty good idea of what it costs to manufacture a product. Greed driven mod makers, with low supplies to keep the price up due to demand is what caused all the clones in the first place.
It doesn't even cost $40 to make a $220 mech mod here in the USA. My wifes family has been in the design and manufacture business for 60 years, I have a pretty good idea of what it costs to manufacture a product. Greed driven mod makers, with low supplies to keep the price up due to demand is what caused all the clones in the first place.
Ya, have you seen how when a company posts a 'coming soon' device on Facebook how fast people jump on it. The Gi as an example. They dangled it for months! And the list grew into hundreds, maybe a couple of thousand. No one actually asked the price except a few but they never answered.
Hmm, maybe crowd source a CNC shop with the promise of mods and then farm the mod making out to the Chinese and get a free shop in the process
Hmm, maybe crowd source a CNC shop with the promise of mods and then farm the mod making out to the Chinese and get a free shop in the process
I don't actually know what that means lol
What I do know is that the guys selling that Gi1 or 2 were taking hundreds of orders for the second batch and had taken money for the first batch which they were still in the process of finishing. It's the 'due to demand' thing @Scuba-Matt was saying
Taking money for a promised product that you don't have made yet is basically what crowd sourcing is. Usually you have to offer a good price, call it interest for your business investors. Sounds like you don't need a good price with battery tubes.
Ohhh I see. Well every so many posts they'd be some Chinese guy or two saying how great these guys are and how it's the most talked about mod out there. I'd never seen anything like that before and found the whole thing a fiasco. I was very enthusiastic about the device to start with but left. I decided they're not having my money. I don't like being dangled along
I'm still waiting for my Gi2. Seems like I've been waiting forever it's been 6 months