It's a mild stimulant on par with caffeine, it's not all that bad especially since I'm only using 9 or less mg a day...Nicotine is not good for us either...you know that right?!
VAPE ON
It's a mild stimulant on par with caffeine, it's not all that bad especially since I'm only using 9 or less mg a day...Nicotine is not good for us either...you know that right?!
VAPE ON
Nicotine is not good for us either...you know that right?!
VAPE ON
Do you have any data or proof on this?It's quite useful in helping one focus attention, and also for prevention of Alzheimers, dementia, and possibly Parkinson's disease. Sounds pretty damn good to me.
Andria
Do you have any data or proof on this?
VAPE ON
Don't say stuff like that if you don't have something to back it up....Do personally have it? Nope, not a scientist. But I have read of studies, done by people I felt were trustworthy, which indicate those very things. Do I have to convince you? Nope. Go look it up yourself.
Andria
Don't say stuff like that if you don't have something to back it up....
VAPE ON
Nicotine makes you angry?I've seen plenty to back it up. You're saying crap with nothing to back it up, about nicotine being dangerous, or "not good for us". The dose makes the poison. All the rest is just ANTZ fantasy and disinformation. Nicotine is likely the safest chemical in a cigarette.
Andria
LOL.Nicotine makes you angry?
VAPE ON
yes vaping is an effective smoking cessation tool.Wow
VAPING is an effective smoking cessation tool
But it didn't really make you quit stinkies correct?
VAPE ON
If someone made a tank that came with.....
Two different Coil types. (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different RBA heads (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different air control rings (one for lung/mtl)
Two different drip tips, one wide bore one small bore
Something like that could work, maybe start out on the MTL, if that doesn't work you don't need to upgrade to go to sub-ohm just swap the parts... or even if you need to stealth vape you could switch it up.. it would be much more than a starter kit it would be more of a find your way kit...
It says it MIGHT slow the disease, but results are weak..
You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.I think you are spot on. I also hear the criticisms from other members, which Id like to address.
It might increase complexity, but things are already pretty intimidating for a newbie. Plus, I don't think either of us are suggesting every starter kit in the world would switch over to this "swiss army vape kit." Its just another option. One that, personally, I would have been all over when I began vaping.
Another is that some would just rather have a "proper" mtl, etc. tank. But, the reality is that when any of us started out, we didn't even know what "proper" is, much less whether or not we would like it best. Likewise, I doubt many have only bought the one mod and one tank we started on. That said, this could just as easily be addressed by including seperate clones, or something similar.
The core of the idea is another introductory approach to vaping. It may not be everyone's thing, but it likely would have helped me quit years earlier.
Plus, I don't think we have even begun to see the true innovation that could exist in atomizers. Or even the vaping market in general (gimme a python/c++ based programmable mod!). I absolutely feel that an atomizer as you describe it is feasible. Not only that, complexity and efficacy are design issues, and I dont feel its wise to determine what is possible based on what already exists!
I always like to remind myself that while criticism without solutions is incredibly easy, its also incredibly unproductive. I don't always succeed, but even if something isn't right for me, it may be exactly what someone else needs. My own input on what would make it work for myself may still not produce a product I would buy, but it might be the very factor that makes it perfection incarnate for another.
Nothing can circumvent the need for patience and a willingness to step outside of your comfort zone, learn something new, change your thinking, and hell, completely change what gets you through your day. That's got nothing to do with the challenges vaping presents and everything to do with the challenges that we all face as addicts and plain old human beings. Has anybody who succeeded through vaping not been frustrated and dissatisfied as all hell?
I think it's more a problem with how people perceive it. You read and hear all of these testimonials from people who swear by it. Nobody seems to give themselves enough credit. Nobody talks about the dark side of it - what they went through to get where they are. It's easy to forget. I am guilty of this. We're all just happy to be freer and thankful for vaping and the role it played in our success, as well as how it continues to enrich our lives as an engrossing hobby and social experience. Staying free is easy for most of us, but we make getting there seem easier than it ever is.
So many people start off with what should be the most ideal and easiest setups and still fail. I've seen it countless times over the years. 1 in 10 is about right. Why is that? Can't help but think it's not the gear. This problem is bigger than the efficacy of vaping.
Some people's hands are absolutely useless at tasks which require a sturdy, steady hand, some people don't have enough engineering skills to even understand the concept of building a coil and would most likely build something that shorts, this is exactly why when most people hire a repairman to fix their washing machine that I instead order the parts and do it myself at the fraction of the price or to put it into vaping terms why some people use the TFV4 instead of RDA'sYou know frankly speaking
You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.
yep and that is where most smokers are.You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.
yep and that is where most smokers are.
yeah well dying of COPD is some cold shit.lots of cold shit in life...That's some cold shit
I'm not entirely sure how that relates to my post, perhaps we are having some miscommunication..
I can't say I agree though. I don't think such knowledge or physical barriers are even relevant, honestly. There are just too many factors that could impede an individual from attaining an arbitrary level of knowledge or ability. I just don't see any positives or benefit to denying vaping to say, someone who is missing limbs or even someone who simply doesn't have the time to wrap their own coils.
I guess I don't see the point?
*shrug*
then develop the fucking skill...we are talking life and death here..we are talking the quality of life here....go on youtube...go check out Mark Todds videos..one of the most experinced reviewers there is .....guy has been doing reviews since the start of vaping...and has vaped eveything from the start...gennys,drippers,GG's stuff, everything,and......he can't build for shit, and he admitts it..he was one of the worst builders around...but he gets the fucking job done and it gave him a great vape and over the years he has become a decent builder.....I don't know about you maybe I'm older and had been smoking longer, but I was desperte to get off smoking....it's not rocket science. You don't have to build an Alien coil or a fused clapton to get a great vape.Some people's hands are absolutely useless at tasks which require a sturdy, steady hand, some people don't have enough engineering skills to even understand the concept of building a coil and would most likely build something that shorts, this is exactly why when most people hire a repairman to fix their washing machine that I instead order the parts and do it myself at the fraction of the price or to put it into vaping terms why some people use the TFV4 instead of RDA's
It's not always a matter of knowing how to do it, it's a lot of the time having the skill to do it and for some people that will never happen.
could you be anymore obtuse, give it a try. or are you simpley trolling.
oh I know and I get it, I smoked for 22 years, tried quitting for 15 of those years, I was smoking 40-60 a day and by the end of it I felt like I was dying every breath I took but not everyone is at that point, hell most people doubt that vaping will even work for them because like me nothing else did and will give up long before they even think about diy coils which is why I think a tank like I suggested not a starter tank a find your way tank has a place in this industry, it's a proven fact that when someone tries multiple vapor products the chances of them being able to quit smoking increases significantly, the kit would include those options from MTL to Subohm to build your own coils, it's including just about everything you are suggesting!then develop the fucking skill...we are talking life and death here..we are talking the quality of life here....go on youtube...go check out Mark Todds videos..one of the most experinced reviewers there is .....guy has been doing reviews since the start of vaping...and has vaped eveything from the start...gennys,drippers,GG's stuff, everything,and......he can't build for shit, and he admitts it..he was one of the worst builders around...but he gets the fucking job done and it gave him a great vape and over the years he has become a decent builder.....I don't know about you maybe I'm older and had been smoking longer, but I was desperte to get off smoking....it's not rocket science. You don't have to build an Alien coil or a fused clapton to get a great vape.
yep cold but true.That's some cold shit
This is my husband, in a nutshell. It's not that he's stupid but just too freaking lazy to learn. But I keep putting new setups into his hands and new flavors in his tank because I WANT him to stop smoking.yep cold but true.
It is how I see the 9 out of 10 that fail in substituting vaping for smoking.
Either do not want to put for the the effort to learn about vaping or just not smart enough.
I try my best to educate but many just do not want to learn.
I guess it is kind of like someone trying to teach me how to enjoy watching humans play football?
Not gonna happen as I have no interest in being a spectator to sports. Playing them now I enjoy.
As I said vaping will work for some and has worked for most everyone on here.
But we are a minor number of people who have tried vaping.
yep cold but true.
It is how I see the 9 out of 10 that fail in substituting vaping for smoking.
Either do not want to put for the the effort to learn about vaping or just not smart enough.
I try my best to educate but many just do not want to learn.
I guess it is kind of like someone trying to teach me how to enjoy watching humans play football?
Not gonna happen as I have no interest in being a spectator to sports. Playing them now I enjoy.
As I said vaping will work for some and has worked for most everyone on here.
But we are a minor number of people who have tried vaping.
I personally know 10 that started vaping to give up cigs.I don't agree with that at all... 9 out of 10 is just to high a number and points to something else other than determination or intent...I'd agree with you if the number was 4 out of 10 or 5 out of 10...for generations we did the same thing to alcoholics we berated and beat up alcoholics for their addiction and told them they were trivial indulgent fucks for not kicking booze. It wasn't until we learned more about the human brain and body that we realized alcoholisim was more akin to a disease....We are blaming the victims again...we just don't know enough about the nature of addiction yet....and let's be honest, the smoking addiction has never been a problem anybody ever wanted to solve,,oh sufre we mouthed platitudes and offered a few pathetic ineffective approaches, but reallly..the Tobacco industry was just too rich and too well connected and too many people were making too much money for any serious money or time and talent to be directed for a solution even today when vaping is on the threshold of saving a billion lives ....the Tobbaco industry and big Pharma are able to destroy it. and deny people a small chance at getting off smoking.Vaping was not created by a Corporation, not by a bank,not by a goverment program...it was created by a handfull of fringe individuals who were looking for a real solution,and I have learned more about the nature and mechanics of the smoking addiction on vaping forums than on any helath form or smoking cessation program I've ever been to......stopping smoking has more to do with an industry offering people solutions that don't fucking work because the corporations and the goverments want the people to be addicted and they want them to die.....and that is why they are trying there best to destroy any progress vaping is making.
I've known more than a few addicts in my life and watched more than a few die from their addiction. Usually addiction turned from a struggle into a forum of suicide because of the "you don't really want to quit" bullshit.....about 80% of the addicts I've know would have given years of their lives or their right hand to be free from their addiction.But becuse of our lack of knowledge, lack of honesty, and lack of compassion... they blamed themselves for their failures, they were to self indulgent, to intrinsiclly evil, or lacking ...there was something missing in them that "good" people had and alot of them slunk off to die in shame and self recriminations,self loathing....The ones that did seem to do best surrounded themselves with a supportive community or went out and dug up information and tried things the mainstream either ignored or actually actively attacked(soumd familiar)....
The vaping community has changed and is poised on the verge of committing suicide...we have become like childeren playing with our dicks out behind the woodshed.We are doing the goverment's and big Tobacco's job for them...We fill our forums with trivial bullshit and obsess about our fucking gear and the biggest and best and newest and shiniet. We have lost sight of why people started vaping.We have become self righteous and judgmental, we activelly attack dual users or people struggeling with smoking we tell them to just up their gear or their nic levels or some other trite nonsense.we want an easy fix.....most vapers know very little about the mechanics of the smoking addiction and could care less...they are more interested in where to score cheap coils.
The outside world looks in on our world with ridicule and well they should it is deserved.and when they do shut us down they will be in their minds shutting down a bunch of adolescent twats with a silly hobby, and not a group of enlightend compassionate honest people trying to help the world and each other......
based on my experince they failed because nicotine wasn't the only substance in cigarettes they were addicted to. and e-juice was missing those substances.I personally know 10 that started vaping to give up cigs.
9 have gone back to cigs.
Too much trouble to learn how to vape for most of them. Well that and they did not fit in with their smoking buddies.
I did say based on my experience.
Ohh the NET. Never used the stuff. 40+ yr 1 + PAD for full strength and little cigars (cheap).based on my experince they failed because nicotine wasn't the only substance in cigarettes they were addicted to. and e-juice was missing those substances.
my point is we have little clue as to the nature of addiction punishing addicts is fun and makes us feel better about ourselves but it's a lie....Ohh the NET. Never used the stuff. 40+ yr 1 + PAD for full strength and little cigars (cheap).
Yes might be an issue for some but not for all.
Did not hang at vape shops then?Pretty sure the reason the eRoll worked for me was that no one had yet told me that cigalikes didn't work for quitting smoking.
Did not hang at vape shops then?
The first one I went in looking for a carto Tank pretty much just laughed at me.
The next 2 were pretty much the same.
So I just bought all my stuff online.
Fuck em.
No, hardly ever. I hung at ECF! In the new users' forum. And actually, some folks probably did mention how "useless" cigalikes were... but I've always been hard headed; I have to prove it to myself. I had to prove that they were wrong, that cigalikes really could work -- and they did. But I got very tired of CONSTANTLY refilling and recharging that tiny lil thing, and began to understand why others were so disdainful of them -- they worked to satisfy my urges, sure enough, but were a HUGE pain in the ass to deal with -- if I wasn't a housewife, if I actually had things I had to do, I'd have found them lacking a lot sooner, I'm sure.
I also began to understand the terminology; when I questioned why the first hit after charging was great, but each succeeding hit was less and less satisfying, I was given to understand that that is the purpose of a "regulated mod" -- to keep it the same, regardless of the charge state. And that's one thing I truly hate about mechs, and why I always use a kick -- I want each hit to be as good as the one before.
Andria
Your style of vaping is much more sensitive to power tchanges.
Me vaping a STM at 20 watts if it drops to 18 it is not so much of a difference.
As vaping at 10 watts and it dropping to 8.
Along the lines of those who start vaping expressly to quit smoking... seems to me that they expect for vaping to actually remove from them the desire to smoke... and that's why they get disappointed, because vaping just won't do that. What vaping WILL do, is satisfy that urge, once you've already said ok, I quit, and then the cravings come along.
It's like they're trying to do it backwards.... they think that because they're vaping, the urge to smoke will disappear. In fact, the urge to smoke may NEVER disappear; you have to MAKE yourself NOT smoke, and just vape, if you want that urge to EVER go away, or lessen.
I ran into this, my 2nd time around after the relapse. I was a dual-user for the entire month of the relapse, and I kept thinking, any day now, vaping will overtake smoking. It never did, and I was getting more and more frustrated. I finally realized that I actually *had* made an effort, the first time around, it was just so slow and gradual and novel, I didn't really realize I was making an effort to vape instead of smoke. So the 2nd time, I had to just say, ok ENOUGH, no more smoking, period, no matter how much I want to, I'm not going to. And guess what, I didn't. After 10 days and the cravings came back, it was a near thing, but I got some WTA, and it relieved the cravings very well, so I never did slip back to smoking -- but I had to draw a line and say, I ain't crossing it. Without the line drawn, it just won't happen.
Andria
I really think its a difficult topic to understand in ourselves, much less others. I think that to truly succeed in a transition from smoking to vaping, it requires a degree of introspection and self-awareness that can be difficult for some.
As pulsevape said, our understanding of addiction is lacking. I think that is partly due to it being approached as everyone being the same.
Perhaps the best way to explore it is through discussions just like this. Then, we can think back on our own "journey" with it and try to think of ways that could have made it more efficient.
For some, they simply will not quit through vaping, or anything else for that matter. But, I do think that cessation success rates could be improved.
My own could have taken a couple weeks rather than years. I wanted to quit, but greatly enjoyed smoking. Once I found what I liked, I found an even more enjoyable experience and haven't had a single craving since that day. For some (perhaps yourself!) that approach and experience will only lead to failure. It requires person specific equipment alongside knowing ourselves well enough to mentally make the choice. Can't do a lot about the latter, but I think we could do better with the former and everyone has a bit different of a balance between the two. For some, the mental part will require little to no effort once the right equipment is found. For others, the equipment will be nearly irrelevant. Hell, for some, the biggest factor might be simply spending enough money to feel obligated and then the rest will follow.
I think its a really interesting topic that not only combines psychology, sociology, and external factors like gear, but also displays just how different we all can be while experiencing the same thing: vaping.
This right here!Although you might be correct Bob, I believe with proper gear and additional knowledge the odds of quitting would be exponentially higher.
I think if someone who used to smoke 1ppd or more now smokes, say, 1-5 analogs per day when not vaping, that's at least a base hit if not a home run, and should not be treated as a statistical failure. I started vaping 11 months ago, got down to 1-3 analogs per day, relapsed a bit last month..... but then said the hell with it, and haven't smoked at all in 14 days. Am I climbing the walls? Yes. Using a Juul too, laugh if you want. One day at a time. If there's a decent WTA that's not extraordinarily expensive, I'd be willing to listen. I'm guessing it's the MAOI's and alkaloids that I am missing. It's not the craving now as much as feeling stiff/achy and moody, short fuse, feel like a little kid without my usual adult level of self-control.