Problem with the Math on my Coil Builds

[Thejkaz]

I've been building coils for a while now but even when I follow a video build to the T it never seems to come out the same (small clouds, not much flavor) I usually do 26 Ga Kenthal A1 builds and they always seem to come out to 0.6-0.7. I don't have a Ohm reader but I use regulated boxes that tell me the resistance. Today the guy at the vape shop told me to use 22 Ga 10 wraps 2.5mm inner Dia dual coil and it would come out to about 0.3, the coil calculator says the same but I just finished the build, pulsed and tightened the coils and it comes out to 0.67. The build is on a Twisted Messes RDA set on an iStick 100w. My Crown has bigger clouds but less flavor that this build, what am I doing wrong?

 

[smacksy]

More info please, a few pics of what you're talking about will help too

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[robot zombie]

The vape shop guy was pretty on point with that estimate.

Sounds like a connection problem... ...possibly a physical flaw in the atty. Given that the resistance is double what it should be, I can only assume that one of those coils isn't in the circuit at all, or both aren't making a good connection in the posts. Do you have any other rebuildables that you can try the same build on? It would just be to see how it reads. If the same build is reading drastically differently on different atties, then you've isolated the source of the problem. It could be that the positive pin on the atty isn't making proper contact with the mod, hence why the mod won't read or fire it properly.

This is one of those cases where having a dedicated meter would help.

 

[Thejkaz]

Both coils are firing glowing hot and I swapped it to another box that read .66 so I don't know what is going on. My other RDA (TOHB V2.5) gets the same result.

 

[CrazyChef]

So... You put the same type build in the Tohb and got the same results? Something isn't adding up here. Like robot zombie said, it's usually a connection issue when you're getting twice the resistance reading that you were expecting.

 

[Thejkaz]

I pulled the coils out of the twisted messes and put them in my TOHB and got .66. Maybe bad wire I will run a new build and see what happens.

 

[Thejkaz]

I pulled one coil out and now it reads 1.32 ohms

 

[CrazyChef]

Wow. Then your wire must be mislabeled? Just a thought.

 

[Thejkaz]

Ok i just built the exact same build on my TOHB and it came out to .7

 

[Thejkaz]

Maybe I am using the calculator wrong, anyone want to check my math. Dual coil 22 Ga Kenthal A1 10 wraps around 2.5mm. Both my RDA's cant be shorted.

 

[CrazyChef]

Steam Engine says you should be right around 0.55Ω per coil, obviously half of that for a dual coil install.

 

[CrazyChef]

And it's kAnthal, not kEnthal. It's a pet peeve of mine...

 

[CrazyChef]

 

[robot zombie]

Wow. Then your wire must be mislabeled? Just a thought.

I'm thinking the same thing. Could be 26g. 10 wraps @ 2.5mm comes out to 1.17 ohms per coil. The jump to 1.3 is well within the acceptable margin for discrepancy when you consider connectivity, variations in leg length, spring-back, etc. Just a little more wire... ...less than a full wrap, would be enough to get you there. Up the diameter to 3mm and you're almost right on the money at 1.34.

How firm is this wire? 22g is pretty thick and actually takes a good bit of force and tension to wrap, not to mention snip.

Any way you can post pictures of these mysterious coils?

Both my RDA's cant be shorted.

If they were dead shorted, they would read .00x, .01 or not at all. Your mods would also give you a warning message and not fire. A lesser short can only make them read lower than should be physically possible, never higher.

If anything, this would have to be the opposite of a short, though I doubt that. The numbers and repeated appearance of the same wrong results across devices are too uncanny.

It baffles the mind. What have you done? You might be cursed.

 

[Thejkaz]

I set the 22 ga up against my 26 ga and they look almost identical. I assume I should see a noticeable difference between the two. 26 ga 10 wrap would give me ~6 ohm with this dual coil build which is what I am getting. I will return the wire tomorrow to the vape shop and see if it is mislabeled. Thank you all for the help.

 

[robot zombie]

I set the 22 ga up against my 26 ga and they look almost identical. I assume I should see a noticeable difference between the two. 26 ga 10 wrap would give me ~6 ohm with this dual coil build which is what I am getting. I will return the wire tomorrow to the vape shop and see if it is mislabeled. Thank you all for the help.

Well, there you have it. 22g is something in the ballpark of 1.75 times thicker than 26. You can easily tell by looking at it and bending it.

I'm just glad we seem to have this figured out. Things were getting freaky.

 

[Thejkaz]

Here is a pic of the build I just did on my TOHB

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[Thejkaz]

And here on my twisted messes

That is no where near 1.75 times larger than my 22 ga

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[Thejkaz]

And here is a side by side of the two supposedly different wire gauges

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[Thejkaz]

And it's kAnthal, not kEnthal. It's a pet peeve of mine...

I was rushing and misspelled it, probably several times, sad part was I was looking at the proper spelling as I was typing.

 

[Thejkaz]

Here is a better side by side or rather end to end comparison

Looks identical right?

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[CrazyChef]

There's no way that's 22 gauge.

 

[Thejkaz]

Yeah I'm rather new to this and I didn't see the difference or lack thereof of until I started messing around with the math. Thank you for the help

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[JERUS]

Both coils are firing glowing hot and I swapped it to another box that read .66 so I don't know what is going on. My other RDA (TOHB V2.5) gets the same result.

Your setup can still be firing but not making a Proper connection. When I first got my Avocado I was having similar issues, too high of readings. Tightened everything up fully, tossed it on 2 different mods and an ohm reader, just wrong. Then realized it was just barely touching at the 510 pin, adjusted that out and everything was working fine. Note I was still able to fire the device while the issue was occuring.

Anyways tossing it out there as that's what came to mind reading that part.

 

[Thejkaz]

Thanks for the reply. I know the wire is not 22 ga now. I tried identical build on a different rda and mod with the same results. 22 ga wire is way thicker

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[Jim_MDP]

Okay... that should solve half your problem.

But there's no reason you shouldn't be getting a good vape with that build.

Or is there? Did we settle the "cursed" issue?

 

[Thejkaz]

It doesn't seem to matter what I build it never stacks up to the exact same build I follow online. I just built a simple Clapton using 26 ga kanthal and 30 ga ss for the wrap. Single coil 9 wraps around 2.5 mm and it ohms at .19 and takes for ever to ramp up. I but a second coil with same results

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[Thejkaz]

Not much in the way of clouds or flavor either. Maxing it out at 100 watts just to get it hot

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[raymo2u]

Not much in the way of clouds or flavor either. Maxing it out at 100 watts just to get it hot

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Twist 3 Strands tightly together to get a 22g size/resistance wire, this will lower your resistance overall and on a Mech Mod help you get more warmth and flavor/cloud density. Try 6 Wraps/2.5-3mm ID Coils and that should drop you around the .15 range. If your using a Tube try the same build with only 2 strands twisted to raise the resistance up a bit for safety and headway for battery stress and life.
Similar to this:

 

[Thejkaz]

I don't have a mech mod only regulated. I was thinking about the noisy cricket as a good starter

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[raymo2u]

I don't have a mech mod only regulated. I was thinking about the noisy cricket as a good starter

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If your just getting into rebuilding I would not suggest a Noisy Cricket or anything in Series to start with, atleast until you get some experience under your belt. I would get a Parallel Box (Clones are fine to use also) like a Dimitri, Abaddon, Incubus, Castigador or similar. Its harder to build for Series then Parallel as Parallel isnt as forgiving if you over or under shoot your resistance and since your just starting it wouldnt be advisable.

Those builds will work well with that Istick100w, just giving you tips just incase you used them on something else.

 

[Thejkaz]

What wire did you start with to get 3 strand twist 22 ga

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[raymo2u]

What wire did you start with to get 3 strand twist 22 ga

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I was telling you to use 26g and twist 3 strands of it for something similar to a strand of 22g.

 

[Thejkaz]

Thank I'll give it a try

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[Thejkaz]

Twist 3 Strands tightly together to get a 22g size/resistance wire, this will lower your resistance overall and on a Mech Mod help you get more warmth and flavor/cloud density. Try 6 Wraps/2.5-3mm ID Coils and that should drop you around the .15 range. If your using a Tube try the same build with only 2 strands twisted to raise the resistance up a bit for safety and headway for battery stress and life.
Similar to this:

Had to go 8 wraps as the istick 100 only goes to .2 could have gone 7 wraps though

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[raymo2u]

Had to go 8 wraps as the istick 100 only goes to .2 could have gone 7 wraps though

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Beautiful. After Pulsing and re-tightening them they should vape fantastic. Should be a warmer, more intense vape that feels more satisfying and produce denser vapor. Make sure to fluff your cotton ends once wicked and try to clip the cotton tip so it barely touches the deck, this will make it wick as efficiently as possible.

 

[Thejkaz]

It vapes ok at 80 watts but it still seems like my crown has more flavor and bigger clouds.

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[raymo2u]

Thats because you need some better coil builds with better flavor profiles...Clapton, Fused clapton, Staples, Framed Staples, Aliens and so on...

 

[Thejkaz]

I built a Clapton earlier today but it was too much for my mod. I am going to pick up some 32 ga kanthal and wrap it around some 22 or 24 to make some fused Clayton's and see how that works out

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[Thejkaz]

Thank you for your help

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[JERUS]

Had to go 8 wraps as the istick 100 only goes to .2 could have gone 7 wraps though

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Looks great, I love simple twisted builds, easy, efficient, and effective.

 

[JERUS]

I built a Clapton earlier today but it was too much for my mod. I am going to pick up some 32 ga kanthal and wrap it around some 22 or 24 to make some fused Clayton's and see how that works out

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I wouldn't drop to 22g you'll likely be ending up with too low of resistance in a dual coil setup. Fused Claptons with 24gKanthal in a dual coil setup with say 5 wraps will be .1-.15Ω. 26gK in the same setup will be somewhere around .2-.25Ω. I have the 26g version in my build right now and it's very nice. I used 40g to wrap though, 32 is a great place to start just will mean a bit more ramp up time.

 

[Thejkaz]

I try 26 ga then. I have to stay above .2 ohm or the box won't fire

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[raymo2u]

26g/36g Kanthal Claptons (5 or 6 Wraps/ 2.5-3mm ID, Dual Coils) would be a great vape and be in the .21-.24 Range and would need around 80w but would work well on your setup. Remember the thinner the outer wire the faster it will ramp up. The thicker or thinner the core wire will effect the resistance the most. The outer wrap does not factor into resistance as the resistance is so high our gear doesnt even detect it.

 

[Thejkaz]

Thanks

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[Thejkaz]

Any recommendations on a parallel box mod? I am thinking something with mosfet is probably best, suggestions?

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[raymo2u]

Dimitri, Dos Equis, Sniper, Barako, Exodus, Point Blank Lite, Abaddon, Incubus, Nookie, Adamantium, Warrior, Osium, Raptor, Castigador, Tirdor, Hollowpoint, Aventador, Tugboat, Lucifer (Make sure its Parallel before ordering) or similar

Twisted Trippple, Oblivion Triple, Tres Equis, Hammer of God V1, and the Lethal are great options that use more then 2 batteries for even more headroom and battery life.

1:1 Clones can be justg as nice as the originals and I advise ordering those before actually dumping money into the originals...

 

[Thejkaz]

Thank you

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[Lost]

This thread is fantastic.

While reading through this, I kept thinking "Wow, I'm glad I have a caliper." Possibly the only cheap electronic/battery-operated thing I've gotten from Harbor Freight that hasn't died. Really came in handy when I started building and had mystery wire sitting around. Also use it to ID factory wire in attys and pre-built RBAs.

32 gauge: .2 mm
31 gauge: .22 mm
30 gauge: .25 mm
29 gauge: .28 mm
28 gauge: .32 mm
27 gauge: .36 mm
26 gauge: .4 mm
25 gauge: .45 mm
24 gauge: .51 mm
23 gauge: .57 mm
22 gauge: .64 mm
21 gauge: .72mm
20 gauge: .81 mm

 

[CrazyChef]

Any recommendations on a parallel box mod?

I LOVE my Tesla Invader II