gauging interest in DNA30 22mm mod.........pics included

Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

Here is a quality USA made 22mm DNA30 mod. It is not finished yet as I still have to make the 510 connector for the top of it. Our company also has a copper version and I will post pics as soon as it is ready. These are prototypes and we are only making a few right now. I need as much feedback as possible to try and get the owner of my company to invest in this project. Here are some pictures.

A little more about this mod ----- It is a modular DNA 30 as we are making a seperate switch to replace the bottom cap for the bottom so you can take the DNA part off the mod and use this as a fully mechanical mod. It is going to be shorter than a Vamo and I will give you the finished dimensions in the near future when the 510 connectors are done. As for the price which is usually the first question I get it is not been set yet. But I can tell you that the more feedback I get, the more we can run and the lower the price will be. If we only make 50, the price will be pretty high. But if we can get the owner to invest in making this mod and many others (500 pieces at a time or so) we could really get our pricing to look much more attractive for this and other mods in the future. I will post a Video Review of this mod once I have the 510 connector done.

The company I work for has been in business for over 25 years so this is not a new start up company. We have a lot of other work to do so we have been on and off this project for 6 months. I would like our company to start a new division dedicated to building high quality American made mods, but I need lots of feedback to get the owner to be more excited about it. The owner has already told me if he sees enough interest he would be willing to invest in new equipment and tooling for mods, so please, anyone who can post please do so. Ask questions if you'd like and I will try to answer them.

Thank you very much!

Sincerely,
Chainvapor

P.S. I was permanently Banned from the ECF for a thread similar to this one today. What a bunch of ASSHOLES! They called it advertising. I just want to say my company will not sell 1 device here without Joe's ok. I am just trying to get feedback to give to the company I work for. If there is not enough interest in these mods, there will only be 10 made and probably we won't make any more so please post. I am not a salesman, I am a machinist, so this is not advertising as much as trying to get my company on the right track to making beautiful USA made mods. THANKS!!

Note to Joe - If I need my own forum for this, please let me know how to obtain it. I will do whatever you want me to do.

VT Andrew · Jul 5, 2014

I'd buy one for the collection

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buffaloguy · Jul 5, 2014

I like it. Esp in copper. I also love the fact that it can be used as both a mech and a vw device. I would however move the + - buttons up higher. I dont want my palm hitting those when I vape. I typically vape with the button facing down to the ground and use my thumb. Those adjustment buttons would be in line with my thumb in that case and would make it a hassle for me, but not sure cause I dont have one in hand, of course.

Frankly tho, I know people who would pay well above $150 for something like this but I wouldnt. Unless it can sold for under $65 I wouldnt buy it. Hate to say but china will have it knocked off in 20 days with the same chipset, or better, and unless you can make it cheaply you wont sell as many as you think. You will likely make a few buck tho

And I dont wanna hear about Made in the USA or quality isnt as good outta china cause thats just not true in most cases. Besides business is about economics and marketing. Gotta have those both in line with each other to compete.

I love the look of it tho. Nice Job!

Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

buffaloguy said:
I like it. Esp in copper. I also love the fact that it can be used as both a mech and a vw device. I would however move the + - buttons up higher. I dont want my palm hitting those when I vape. I typically vape with the button facing down to the ground and use my thumb. Those adjustment buttons would be in line with my thumb in that case and would make it a hassle for me, but not sure cause I dont have one in hand, of course.

Frankly tho, I know people who would pay well above $150 for something like this but I wouldnt. Unless it can sold for under $65 I wouldnt buy it. Hate to say but china will have it knocked off in 20 days with the same chipset, or better, and unless you can make it cheaply you wont sell as many as you think. You will likely make a few buck tho

And I dont wanna hear about Made in the USA or quality isnt as good outta china cause thats just not true in most cases. Besides business is about economics and marketing. Gotta have those both in line with each other to compete.

I love the look of it tho. Nice Job!

I understand what you are saying. I have almost all clones in my vaping arsenal but unfortunately we cannot make products as cheap as China does. If we could pay our employees $5 a day, we would be able to compete. I just know there is a market for American made products and we will be going after that market. I am hoping to get our mods priced somewhere between the elite $200+ mods already made in America and the Cheap China mods under $100. If we can get into the in between niche market I think we stand a chance of a good opportunity. The only problem is investment. Our company would have to make a heavy investment in order to make enough mods to get the price were I want them to be. That is why I am here. Trying to get some ammo for the owner of my company to understand how big of a market there is for these products. Hopefully I can convince him. More posts here = better chance of affordable, high quality, American made mods for all!!

CV

P.S. Thank you for your feedback. It is appreciated.

Paddrino · Jul 5, 2014

The difficult thing is going to compete with battery life with the box mods. You can get a brand new okr-t10 50w for ~130 bucks that has 2x the battery life and a wider range of builds. If your mod is right at the 100.00 price point, I would get one. Any higher than that, there are more options with a better 'value'.

Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

Paddrino said:
The difficult thing is going to compete with battery life with the box mods. You can get a brand new okr-t10 50w for ~130 bucks that has 2x the battery life and a wider range of builds. If your mod is right at the 100.00 price point, I would get one. Any higher than that, there are more options with a better 'value'.

We are not trying to compete with box mods. I do not like them and there are many others who do not like them either. I would rather pay double for a tube mod. Battery life is a double edged sword, to get the battery life, you need bigger mods. I would rather just carry 2 or 3 extra batteries with me. I can see your argument though. If I liked box mods, I would be saying the same thing.

I know some might agree with you and I thank you for your feedback and taking the time to post your concerns, it is appreciated.

CV

P.S. Hana Modz has a box mod DNA 30 which they cannot keep in stock. These sell for around $250.00. I would say the DNA30 is still in pretty high demand even if better stuff is coming out now for less money. I am hoping our company can make products in the future which use 50 watt or 100 watt chips. That would be AWESOME.

buffaloguy · Jul 5, 2014

Yes, but Hana has been knocked off already and the market is now flooded with clones, just as good as the original.

Now not to say there isnt a market for this ~$150, but what you will pay and the average consumer will pay are two different things. You will pay more cause you have an emotional investment in your seemingly (to me) well made product. The average consumer doesnt care. Its about function and price alone and there is a breaking point when there are already dna30 tube mods out there sub $65. Yours has the added value of switching to a mech so it can be priced a little higher than most but at best thats a $30 value. A copper nemi clone can be bought for $15.

I know it prolly a taboo idea but you may want to go the route of alot of other mod makers and do design in house, and production/assembly in china. Then you could keep cost down and even when knocked off still make a lot of money for your company. But I do understand keeping americans working and all that. Question is, what makes more money. Answer offshore.

I have a hard time believing american companys cant compete. I had a machine shop make a new 510 brass top cap for my sentinel m16. It only cost me $10. The offered to make me a whole new one for $45. This was a shop with 50+ employees. So I guess I dont get why everyone claims labor adds so much to cost. Its a machined product, not made with a chisel and carved by hand. Its tubing... with a switch, stock electronics and a wire. Biggest cost is assemby and paying someone minimum wage to do so. $8.25 an hour? If they cant assemble 4-5 per hour they should be fired anyways...

So yes, you prolly could do the same quality at much less cost than you claim but maybe Im missing something. Profits are made in quantity, with a basic common sense amount of quality. People will only pay so much for the same thing. Only a fool pays a premium for made in the usa, imo. That might be inflamatory but it is true nonetheless.

I would love to see this succeed but the economics dont make sense. I love hearing US mod makers say "It costs us more". All that says to me is "We make more profit for less material cost. Less mods made, at a high profit, equals more money with less effort".

I have yet to have a mod maker prove me wrong, and that is the sentiment of the average mod buyer about US mod makers. They could compete fine with china. They just have no incentive to do so because there are people who gladly pay for an origonal. If I can have a whole new m16 made at a machine shop for $45 buy one guy in a day then there is no reason another shop in the USA cant do the same.

So cater that market but you wont get rich doing it. Make it a VAMO price point if you really wanna get rich. Size and scale is where the real money is. Thats why china floods the market.

And please, see my comments from a pure business perspective cause thats where they are aimed.

cigarbabe · Jul 5, 2014

Chainvapor said:
We are not trying to compete with box mods. I do not like them and there are many others who do not like them either. I would rather pay double for a tube mod. Battery life is a double edged sword, to get the battery life, you need bigger mods. I would rather just carry 2 or 3 extra batteries with me. I can see your argument though. If I liked box mods, I would be saying the same thing.

I know some might agree with you and I thank you for your feedback and taking the time to post your concerns, it is appreciated.

CV

P.S. Hana Modz has a box mod DNA 30 which they cannot keep in stock. These sell for around $250.00. I would say the DNA30 is still in pretty high demand even if better stuff is coming out now for less money. I am hoping our company can make products in the future which use 50 watt or 100 watt chips. That would be AWESOME.

I had one of the first run Hana Modz.
It was so poorly made I would never ever buy anything from him again.
For $260. bucks I expect a well made mod with the wiring done very neatly and as little hot glue as possible.........
You know like a Mamu!
I was truly disappointed with my Hana.
Nice guy but so wasn't worth my $260..........
Your mod looks beautiful but I am not a fan of spending 200. + on a mod that is basically unknown........
Let me know when they come out!
C.B.

VT Andrew · Jul 5, 2014

These people are fucking morons. I'd buy one for $200 and I know at least 2-3 other guys JUST IN MY SHOP that's scoop one up as well.

If you're broke and you don't own an authentic DNA mod, your opinion is irrelevant to this conversation...

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buck naked · Jul 5, 2014

I like it. I`ve been thinking about a 30W capable device and the proposition of changing to a straight mech is cool. I prefer tube design over box, its all ergonomics. I hope this venture pans out. please keep us posted
Shane

Kang · Jul 5, 2014

I'd be interested in this. Just posted in another thread that I am looking to get my first VV mod. Originally it was the Hana vs the Semovar but I'd take this one over both.

buffaloguy · Jul 5, 2014

VT Andrew said:
These people are fucking morons. I'd buy one for $200 and I know at least 2-3 other guys JUST IN MY SHOP that's scoop one up as well.

If you're broke and you don't own an authentic DNA mod, your opinion is irrelevant to this conversation...

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In this day and age authentic doesnt mean squat as far as quality, and if you are that silly you truly believe it does, maybe you should check who you call morons. Some of those may well be customers of your own shop.

This is the same type of mentality that allows vendors in the US to price gouge for limited run items. Im no moron and everything I said from a business perspective is extremely sound.

VT Andrew · Jul 5, 2014

If you think me running my mouth on an Internet forum will cost us customers, you OBVIOUSLY don't know how we roll at Vapor Trail...

Also, we don't sell CLONES so I doubt I'm gonna lose sales to the fastech crowd.

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VT Andrew · Jul 5, 2014

Also, from a "pure business" perspective, you failed to even MENTION quality control. Do you realize how many mods are rejected by GOOD mod makers because they won't put their name on junk?

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Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

buffaloguy said:
Yes, but Hana has been knocked off already and the market is now flooded with clones, just as good as the original.

Now not to say there isnt a market for this ~$150, but what you will pay and the average consumer will pay are two different things. You will pay more cause you have an emotional investment in your seemingly (to me) well made product. The average consumer doesnt care. Its about function and price alone and there is a breaking point when there are already dna30 tube mods out there sub $65. Yours has the added value of switching to a mech so it can be priced a little higher than most but at best thats a $30 value. A copper nemi clone can be bought for $15.

I know it prolly a taboo idea but you may want to go the route of alot of other mod makers and do design in house, and production/assembly in china. Then you could keep cost down and even when knocked off still make a lot of money for your company. But I do understand keeping americans working and all that. Question is, what makes more money. Answer offshore.

I have a hard time believing american companys cant compete. I had a machine shop make a new 510 brass top cap for my sentinel m16. It only cost me $10. The offered to make me a whole new one for $45. This was a shop with 50+ employees. So I guess I dont get why everyone claims labor adds so much to cost. Its a machined product, not made with a chisel and carved by hand. Its tubing... with a switch, stock electronics and a wire. Biggest cost is assemby and paying someone minimum wage to do so. $8.25 an hour? If they cant assemble 4-5 per hour they should be fired anyways...

So yes, you prolly could do the same quality at much less cost than you claim but maybe Im missing something. Profits are made in quantity, with a basic common sense amount of quality. People will only pay so much for the same thing. Only a fool pays a premium for made in the usa, imo. That might be inflamatory but it is true nonetheless.

I would love to see this succeed but the economics dont make sense. I love hearing US mod makers say "It costs us more". All that says to me is "We make more profit for less material cost. Less mods made, at a high profit, equals more money with less effort".

I have yet to have a mod maker prove me wrong, and that is the sentiment of the average mod buyer about US mod makers. They could compete fine with china. They just have no incentive to do so because there are people who gladly pay for an origonal. If I can have a whole new m16 made at a machine shop for $45 buy one guy in a day then there is no reason another shop in the USA cant do the same.

So cater that market but you wont get rich doing it. Make it a VAMO price point if you really wanna get rich. Size and scale is where the real money is. Thats why china floods the market.

And please, see my comments from a pure business perspective cause thats where they are aimed.

Ok, where do I start. First let me start by saying if someone made you a 510 cap in a machine shop for $10, they gave it to you for free. YES FREE! Any machine shop that produces quality CNC Machined products charges at least $60 per hour as a minimum (and most charge more). So if some machine shop took 8 hours to make you an M16 mod, it would not cost $45 it would cost more like $480.00 unless of course they did it for free. You obviously have no idea how much money it costs to run a business like ours. Just the 5 machines I run in our shop cost over half a million dollars. No one is going to make parts on them for pennies.

That being said I do appreciate your feedback and understand where you are coming from. It is too bad you only got to experience a shop with cheap manual machines and low wages. I assume this shop is also close to going out of business if they are offering to make one-off products so cheap.
Our shop has to charge a minimum of $75 to even consider making any 1 part to cover our costs and if it takes more than 1 hour to make, the price goes up from there.

So whatever company you are talking about that you say made you a 510 cap for $10 and offered to make a complete M16 mod for $45 is not even close to being in the same league as our company. I wish I could make mods for that price, If I could I would have already started my own mod shop and quit my job.

Your offshore comment is moot because I will not give China jobs over American workers. I would rather sell 10 mods made by Americans than 500,000 mods made by China. It is not about money, it is about American Pride.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

buck naked said:
I like it. I`ve been thinking about a 30W capable device and the proposition of changing to a straight mech is cool. I prefer tube design over box, its all ergonomics. I hope this venture pans out. please keep us posted
Shane

Thank you. I will keep updating this thread as we get closer to a finished product.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 5, 2014

VT Andrew said:
These people are fucking morons. I'd buy one for $200 and I know at least 2-3 other guys JUST IN MY SHOP that's scoop one up as well.

If you're broke and you don't own an authentic DNA mod, your opinion is irrelevant to this conversation...

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Thank you sir! I will keep you updated on our progress.

CV

buffaloguy · Jul 5, 2014

Doesnt matter how you "roll" to me at all. CJ makes great juice by the way. Cant say the same when others make it. Its not consistant. Hopefully that has changed since last I was there. I dont come in often cause Im a self sufficient vaper. I make my own vg juice, and am good at it. I bought a 510t from you guys over two years ago when I started vaping. If all you want to do is sell overpriced stuff to suckers so be it. I paid $65 for a knock off 510t in your store and not long after I felt kinda ripped off and found I could by the same thing online with shipping for $35. CJ did stand behind and replace a bum battery for me tho. No questions asked, and I was very impressed with him. Ive sent countless new vapers in to ask for him. Maybe I should rethink that based on your elitest kind of mentality, but he helped me quit smoking, so I tried to help his business grow by word of mouth.

Its not my company. I think its a short sighted perspective not offering more variety and bringing in more customers you definitely are losing to other vape shops. The vast majority just isnt going to buy $200+ mods. And most of your basic gear was far overpriced. You are leaving a hell of alot of profit on the table and walking away beacuse you wanna be high brow, your call. Im not saying there isnt money to be made by doing such, but I think your perspective is a bit off balance.

I wont go into my background but if you understood my past employers size and what I did for them specifically youd realize Im not talking out my ass. It was my job to make companies more money, and grow them fast. I didnt do that by excluding things or people.

As far as the machine shop I went to its been in business for over 50 years. They didnt cut me any special favors as far as I know. Thats what I paid. Im no machinst or expert in that line of work. However, stands to reason if they can do it so can others. Who knows, maybe they were bored. Maybe they wanted my mod to mock up something for themselves. I didnt question the price. All I needed was a new cap.

Look, dont get me wrong here. Im all for american made, and american jobs. But from a business perspective, if Im the owner making the investment, I have to decide what to profit on and how. So you examine and decide. If he is okay with it costing more, and selling fewer at a higher margin, then get it on. There are buyers for it. Ive said that all along. I think its a beautiful looking piece and itll likely function very well.

You just need to consider how many you will truly sell if your price point is above what the market calls for.

VT Andrew said:
If you think me running my mouth on an Internet forum will cost us customers, you OBVIOUSLY don't know how we roll at Vapor Trail...

Also, we don't sell CLONES so I doubt I'm gonna lose sales to the fastech crowd.

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5150sick · Jul 5, 2014

I have a tobeco "dna30" tube mod and it irritates the shit out of me when the mod rolls and the buttons activate/fire.
I put a vape band on each side of the buttons to make it stop.
You need to make sure the buttons will not press or fire if the mod rolls on a hard surface.
It is little things like this that will make Phil Busardo, Grimm, Rip, etc... whoever give you a bad review and you will end up having to make a "V2" before the V1 even comes out.
like the first vamo with the shitty spring and plastic buttons. Have you ever seen a Vamo V1 in person? Me neither!

Just something to think about

VT Andrew · Jul 6, 2014

So lemme get this straight, you DON'T Come into our shop but you're going to critique our business? If CJ read this, his blood would likely BOIL.

If you bought a "knockoff" like you claim, then apparently joye tech was selling knockoffs of their own products.

It's people like YOU that were the inspiration for our BOD flavor, and considering your china connects, I'm sure it's unlikely that you would send a customer to a reputable business like ours when they can cut out the middle man and illegally Import products from overseas...

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VT Andrew · Jul 6, 2014

Also, I never said we don't sell low end products, I said we don't sell CLONES. I know it's hard to understand for someone so business Savy as yourself, but some of us care about MORE than making
Money.

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doghead · Jul 6, 2014

I couldn't even make it through this whole thread... So many problems on both sides. Reminds me of a bad political discussion.

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buffaloguy · Jul 6, 2014

VT Andrew said:
Also, I never said we don't sell low end products, I said we don't sell CLONES. I know it's hard to understand for someone so business Savy as yourself, but some of us care about MORE than making
Money.

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The product I bought back then is definitely not joyetech. I know a joyetech product now. Back then I didnt.

I never said anything about china connections. I dont know where your head is at. And where exactly do you think most of what you sell comes from? The batteries? Flavorings? The nic? 90% of all of it is made in china so you are "importing illegally" too. Dont be so clouded and take a look around your own store. The majority of it is imported. Even the stuff "made in the usa", in many cases, isnt. Nicotine itself is a perfect example of that.

And btw, read. I said I do come to your shop. Havent recently beacuse i simply havent been over that way. Thats certainly going to stop now tho. Im sure you can stand losing my precious dollars tho.

Now Ill stop making this thread about you and pollute it no more. You need to take a hard look at your attitude and grow up a little. Just because you dont agree with a perspective doesnt mean you are right. Ignorance may be bliss, but it breeds stupidity.

This is about their mods. Not about you. Rant all you like. Ill reply to you on this no further.

And my apologies to the OP for going off topic. Wont happen again. I was merely trying to be helpful and give different perspective that may have not been considered. Something that all new ventures should do to succeed.

robtest · Jul 6, 2014

build it and they will come...

5150sick · Jul 6, 2014

5150sick said:
I have a tobeco "dna30" tube mod and it irritates the shit out of me when the mod rolls and the buttons activate/fire.
I put a vape band on each side of the buttons to make it stop.
You need to make sure the buttons will not press or fire if the mod rolls on a hard surface.
It is little things like this that will make Phil Busardo, Grimm, Rip, etc... whoever give you a bad review and you will end up having to make a "V2" before the V1 even comes out.
like the first vamo with the shitty spring and plastic buttons. Have you ever seen a Vamo V1 in person? Me neither!

Just something to think about

I am going to reply to my own thread because the OP asked a question about his product and I wanted to make sure he saw some actual feedback about his product.

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

5150sick said:
I have a tobeco "dna30" tube mod and it irritates the shit out of me when the mod rolls and the buttons activate/fire.
I put a vape band on each side of the buttons to make it stop.
You need to make sure the buttons will not press or fire if the mod rolls on a hard surface.
It is little things like this that will make Phil Busardo, Grimm, Rip, etc... whoever give you a bad review and you will end up having to make a "V2" before the V1 even comes out.
like the first vamo with the shitty spring and plastic buttons. Have you ever seen a Vamo V1 in person? Me neither!

Just something to think about

Thank you for the feedback 5150sick. I understand what you are saying here. I am not sure if our mod would fire when it rolled over, I will check that out. But you can turn it off and on so that doesn't happen. Also, I never lay my tube mods on their side, so this would never happen to me personally. But I will look into this and see if there is a modification we can do to keep that from happening. Thank you. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

robtest said:
build it and they will come...

I hope so! Thank you.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

cigarbabe said:
I had one of the first run Hana Modz.
It was so poorly made I would never ever buy anything from him again.
For $260. bucks I expect a well made mod with the wiring done very neatly and as little hot glue as possible.........
You know like a Mamu!
I was truly disappointed with my Hana.
Nice guy but so wasn't worth my $260..........
Your mod looks beautiful but I am not a fan of spending 200. + on a mod that is basically unknown........
Let me know when they come out!
C.B.

I had to reply to this just to tell you our mod has absolutely no wires or glue. It is 100% wire and glue free. We (Or I should say the designer himself) put a lot of thought and time into creating the cradle that holds the DNA30 board so it would all screw together with M1 screws. So hopefully we will not disappoint anyone with our mods. Of course, I know not everyone will think it is perfect, that would be impossible.

Thank you for your feedback, it is appreciated.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

buffaloguy said:
The product I bought back then is definitely not joyetech. I know a joyetech product now. Back then I didnt.

I never said anything about china connections. I dont know where your head is at. And where exactly do you think most of what you sell comes from? The batteries? Flavorings? The nic? 90% of all of it is made in china so you are "importing illegally" too. Dont be so clouded and take a look around your own store. The majority of it is imported. Even the stuff "made in the usa", in many cases, isnt. Nicotine itself is a perfect example of that.

And btw, read. I said I do come to your shop. Havent recently beacuse i simply havent been over that way. Thats certainly going to stop now tho. Im sure you can stand losing my precious dollars tho.

Now Ill stop making this thread about you and pollute it no more. You need to take a hard look at your attitude and grow up a little. Just because you dont agree with a perspective doesnt mean you are right. Ignorance may be bliss, but it breeds stupidity.

This is about their mods. Not about you. Rant all you like. Ill reply to you on this no further.

And my apologies to the OP for going off topic. Wont happen again. I was merely trying to be helpful and give different perspective that may have not been considered. Something that all new ventures should do to succeed.

Thank you for your feedback, all of it. It is appreciated. I will look at all feedback whether good or bad and use it all to try and make a product that will excite our customers and give them a high quality mod. Really there is no such thing as bad feedback when you are looking for opinions to help you create a masterpiece. So please do not apologize.

Thank you to everyone, keep the comments coming!!
Chainvapor

VT Andrew · Jul 6, 2014

Sorry, Chainvapor. I guess we did kinda hijack your thread, but HE STARTED IT. I can't stand by and have my business called out by someone that YOU clearly understand has no concept of the cost of running a business.

robtest · Jul 6, 2014

Chainvapor said:
Thank you for the feedback 5150sick. I understand what you are saying here. I am not sure if our mod would fire when it rolled over, I will check that out. But you can turn it off and on so that doesn't happen. Also, I never lay my tube mods on their side, so this would never happen to me personally. But I will look into this and see if there is a modification we can do to keep that from happening. Thank you. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

CV

The Seven 22 and Seven 30 mods by Pioneer4you are kinda beveled out where the screen / button are, which prevents this... Your mod looks like it flares out bigger at the top, if you drop the fire button a bit lower and maybe flare more, it would probably prevent it from firing if it is laid on it side... I would never lay mine on it's side either, but it might accidentally fall over, roll and fire, and damage the device...

SMOKIE · Jul 6, 2014

Chainvapor said:
Here is a quality USA made 22mm DNA30 mod. It is not finished yet as I still have to make the 510 connector for the top of it. Our company also has a copper version and I will post pics as soon as it is ready. These are prototypes and we are only making a few right now. I need as much feedback as possible to try and get the owner of my company to invest in this project. Here are some pictures.

A little more about this mod ----- It is a modular DNA 30 as we are making a seperate switch to replace the bottom cap for the bottom so you can take the DNA part off the mod and use this as a fully mechanical mod. It is going to be shorter than a Vamo and I will give you the finished dimensions in the near future when the 510 connectors are done. As for the price which is usually the first question I get it is not been set yet. But I can tell you that the more feedback I get, the more we can run and the lower the price will be. If we only make 50, the price will be pretty high. But if we can get the owner to invest in making this mod and many others (500 pieces at a time or so) we could really get our pricing to look much more attractive for this and other mods in the future. I will post a Video Review of this mod once I have the 510 connector done.

The company I work for has been in business for over 25 years so this is not a new start up company. We have a lot of other work to do so we have been on and off this project for 6 months. I would like our company to start a new division dedicated to building high quality American made mods, but I need lots of feedback to get the owner to be more excited about it. The owner has already told me if he sees enough interest he would be willing to invest in new equipment and tooling for mods, so please, anyone who can post please do so. Ask questions if you'd like and I will try to answer them.

Thank you very much!

Sincerely,
Chainvapor

P.S. I was permanently Banned from the ECF for a thread similar to this one today. What a bunch of ASSHOLES! They called it advertising. I just want to say my company will not sell 1 device here without Joe's ok. I am just trying to get feedback to give to the company I work for. If there is not enough interest in these mods, there will only be 10 made and probably we won't make any more so please post. I am not a salesman, I am a machinist, so this is not advertising as much as trying to get my company on the right track to making beautiful USA made mods. THANKS!!

Note to Joe - If I need my own forum for this, please let me know how to obtain it. I will do whatever you want me to do.

Welcome Chainvapor, I like the fact that you can use it as a mechanical also. Now once you create a website selling then we would move you into the sub vendor section but for now you are posting in the correct section. Good Luck, and Vape On.

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

SMOKIE said:
Welcome Chainvapor, I like the fact that you can use it as a mechanical also. Now once you create a website selling then we would move you into the sub vendor section but for now you are posting in the correct section. Good Luck, and Vape On.

Thank you Smokie.

CV

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

robtest said:
The Seven 22 and Seven 30 mods by Pioneer4you are kinda beveled out where the screen / button are, which prevents this... Your mod looks like it flares out bigger at the top, if you drop the fire button a bit lower and maybe flare more, it would probably prevent it from firing if it is laid on it side... I would never lay mine on it's side either, but it might accidentally fall over, roll and fire, and damage the device...

The pictures are deceiving. Our mod is 22mm diameter from top to bottom. No flaring. I own a Seven 22 mod and know what you are talking about. If we had room to bevel it, we would. But this mod has used every little bit of room we had. It is kinda rough making a tube mod with a chip designed for a box mod. LOL! Thank you for the feedback!

CV

5150sick · Jul 6, 2014

Chainvapor said:
The pictures are deceiving. Our mod is 22mm diameter from top to bottom. No flaring. I own a Seven 22 mod and know what you are talking about. If we had room to bevel it, we would. But this mod has used every little bit of room we had. It is kinda rough making a tube mod with a chip designed for a box mod. LOL! Thank you for the feedback!

CV

That is kind of what the tobeco dna30 is. Only the tobeco has way bigger buttons. Your mod may not even fire when rolled.
I know a lot of people do not sit tube mods on their side but a lot do and the ones who don't knock them over.
Once I applied a vapeband above and below the buttons the problem was solved though.
They are matching vapebands so it doesn't look too bad...

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

VT Andrew said:
Sorry, Chainvapor. I guess we did kinda hijack your thread, but HE STARTED IT. I can't stand by and have my business called out by someone that YOU clearly understand has no concept of the cost of running a business.

Yeah, I try to look at everything with perspective. His perspective is just as important to me as anyone's. I know there are a lot of vapers out there that think the American mod makers are trying to "get rich quick" or rip them off. Unfortunately, they have not run a business like this and do not understand how high the costs are. Top quality CNC machines are not cheap. The 1 machine the mill work was done on is a 5 axis machine that cost over $300,000 itself. That does not include all the machines that I program, setup, and run. I am trying really hard to get our owner to purchase 1 machine that can do all of the mod work by itself. The machines we are using right now are OVERKILL for making mods, but it is all we have at the moment and product has to be priced accordingly (to the current machines we are using). Creating a new division of our company dedicated to mod making would let us drop costs and lower pricing which would be great for everyone including the end user. For now that is just a dream though. I do not have the $50,000+ to buy the equipment to make these mods in a production run.

Anyone out there who has money to invest and wants to start building mods, please let me know. I would love to start a shop dedicated to making mods. I have over 20 years experience (7 of which was managing an entire company in Rochester, NY) and I know how to tool, program, setup, and run many different CNC Turning Centers and CNC Vertical Machining Centers. I just do not have the money to start a new business, and I have 2 children and a Wife to support, so I need a secure income (well as secure as it can be now-a-days).

Again I want to thank each and every one of you for your feedback. Our company will try to use all of this feedback to make a mod you would be proud to own.
CV

buffaloguy · Jul 6, 2014

No I dont know the COSTS of runnning a machine shop, but give me three days to learn it and I will. I do know running businesses however and have run my own, and helped countless others start or improve theirs. To do that I also need to understand their model. In the case of an ecig shop I know the costs and services. A machine shop is a different beast whjch is why all Ive said is about differing ideas in a general business sense.

buffaloguy said:
The product I bought back then is definitely not joyetech. I know a joyetech product now. Back then I didnt.

I never said anything about china connections. I dont know where your head is at. And where exactly do you think most of what you sell comes from? The batteries? Flavorings? The nic? 90% of all of it is made in china so you are "importing illegally" too. Dont be so clouded and take a look around your own store. The majority of it is imported. Even the stuff "made in the usa", in many cases, isnt. Nicotine itself is a perfect example of that.

And btw, read. I said I do come to your shop. Havent recently beacuse i simply havent been over that way. Thats certainly going to stop now tho. Im sure you can stand losing my precious dollars tho.

Now Ill stop making this thread about you and pollute it no more. You need to take a hard look at your attitude and grow up a little. Just because you dont agree with a perspective doesnt mean you are right. Ignorance may be bliss, but it breeds stupidity.

This is about their mods. Not about you. Rant all you like. Ill reply to you on this no further.

VT Andrew said:
Sorry, Chainvapor. I guess we did kinda hijack your thread, but HE STARTED IT. I can't stand by and have my business called out by someone that YOU clearly understand has no concept of the cost of running a business.

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

buffaloguy said:
No I dont know the COSTS of runnning a machine shop, but give me three days to learn it and I will. I do know running businesses however and have run my own, and helped countless others start or improve theirs. To do that I also need to understand their model. In the case of an ecig shop I know the costs and services. A machine shop is a different beast whjch is why all Ive said is about differing ideas in a general business sense.

Well you may be a great asset to me then. That's why I try to listen to everyone's point of view. To me there is no such thing as bad feedback because everyone who gives feedback whether positive or negative represents some part of the consumer base. If my company wants to improve and grow we need to listen to all sides of the conversation.

So again I want to thank you for your feedback and please do not take anything I have said in a negative way. I just have been in the manufacturing business for over 20 years, have seen the cost of doing this kind of business, and it is NOT cheap. If it was cheap I would have started my own company years ago.

Kindest Regards,
Chainvapor

Saddletramp1200 · Jul 6, 2014

buffaloguy said:
No I dont know the COSTS of runnning a machine shop, but give me three days to learn it and I will. I do know running businesses however and have run my own, and helped countless others start or improve theirs. To do that I also need to understand their model. In the case of an ecig shop I know the costs and services. A machine shop is a different beast whjch is why all Ive said is about differing ideas in a general business sense.

When Our Machine Shop is running full bore our electric bill is about 9,000.00 per month. We use A/C here in Texas. Keeps production high & people happy. Had bills as low as 250. Bad month for us.

Chainvapor · Jul 6, 2014

Yeah I am sure our electric bill in Tennessee is not cheap either. Lol

Sent from my YP-G1 using Tapatalk 2

Jgoss · Jul 7, 2014

I would like to know something, and I promise I am not being combative or anything, I would just like to know for my own information. Do you have to use a CNC machine to make this? It seems like people have been shaping metal in industry for many years, and they did it without the use of such machines. It is just a metal tube after all. Couldn't you cut costs by making a mod like this that you didn't have to use all that expensive machinery to manufacture? Or better yet, are machine shops paying for their big expensive things by designing things so they MUST be made on a cnc, thereby justifying the cost of one and the price they charge?

Saddletramp1200 · Jul 7, 2014

Jgoss said:
I would like to know something, and I promise I am not being combative or anything, I would just like to know for my own information. Do you have to use a CNC machine to make this? It seems like people have been shaping metal in industry for many years, and they did it without the use of such machines. It is just a metal tube after all. Couldn't you cut costs by making a mod like this that you didn't have to use all that expensive machinery to manufacture? Or better yet, are machine shops paying for their big expensive things by designing things so they MUST be made on a cnc, thereby justifying the cost of one and the price they charge?

No, you do not. We are an "old Fashion" type shop. 90% of our machines are manual with power feeds. We have two cnc machines. If we have to make several of the same part, we use them.

Chainvapor · Jul 7, 2014

Jgoss said:
I would like to know something, and I promise I am not being combative or anything, I would just like to know for my own information. Do you have to use a CNC machine to make this? It seems like people have been shaping metal in industry for many years, and they did it without the use of such machines. It is just a metal tube after all. Couldn't you cut costs by making a mod like this that you didn't have to use all that expensive machinery to manufacture? Or better yet, are machine shops paying for their big expensive things by designing things so they MUST be made on a cnc, thereby justifying the cost of one and the price they charge?

Saddletramp1200 said:
No, you do not. We are an "old Fashion" type shop. 90% of our machines are manual with power feeds. We have two cnc machines. If we have to make several of the same part, we use them.

I will answer both of these as best I can:

If you are only making 1 mod, then Saddletramp is correct. You can make a nice high quality mod using manual machines.

It all comes down to quality in quantity. It is extremely hard to make multiple parts within tight tolerances on manual machines without taking an immense amount of time. Saddletramp's shop may be able to make 100 parts within a + or - 0.010" tolerance within a modest amount of time on manual machines, but change that tolerance to +/- 0.0010" or even +/- 0.0005" and it would become a nightmare to get any parts done in a reasonable amount of time. Manual machines typically are for 1 or 2 pieces only. Making multiple parts on manual machines will absolutely kill quality OR will take an immense amount of time. Either way, I would not sacrifice quality to save a buck and even if you did get good quality it would take so long to make the parts, the price would be twice as high as CNC machined parts would cost.

Also 1 of the parts on our mod takes approx 12 minutes to make on one of our CNC machines with 6 different tools ( 2 of which are only 0.040 in diameter). This particular part would be problematic on a manual machine. I would be amazed to see a manual machine that could work with such small tools that run between 10,000 and 14,000 RPM and how long would it take to cut out the part on a manual machine with tools this small?

Last but not least.......this particular mod is not just a "metal tube", it has several parts. The 510 connector cap has 3 pieces for the spring loaded positive pin, 2 pieces for the insulator and the cap itself with the 510 threads in it. The 3 buttons on the DNA are all machined within tight specifications to make them smooth. Then there is the bottom cap which has 3 parts for the Spring loaded negative pin assembly. Then there is the Manual Switch to replace the bottom cap to turn the mod into a 100% mechanical mod. That switch has a few different parts in it as well. The cradle for the DNA is a very complex assembly which was needed to fit it into such a small area to keep the mod length as short as possible.

Can you make a fairly simple mech mod with less machining and less parts? YES. It is called a Four Nine. Simplest mod on the market. But I have to tell you, even the 4 nine mod in all its simplicity is more than just a tube. The switch on the bottom has to be machined to fit well in the bottom of the tube and a magnet pressed or glued into it. The other part of the switch that goes on the negative side of the battery has an insulator that threads into a copper piece with a magnet inside of it. The 510 cap has to have the 510 threads put into it and has to be threaded on the outside to fit the tube it goes in and the other tubes need to be threaded so they fit together.

I really do appreciate the questions and I hope this helps anyone reading to understand a little more about what goes into building a high quality mod. I hope I did not seem harsh in my explanation, because that was definitely not my intent. I have worked in 8 different shops in my 23 years of machining. I have built plastic injection molds, turned automotive parts, and managed an entire company. I have also run various manual mills, manual lathes, and surface grinders. I have programmed, setup, fixtured, and ran many cnc lathes, cnc mills, and a sinker edm. So while I always have more to learn, I am not talking out of total ignorance.

Thank you again for the feedback and questions. Please keep them coming!!
Chainvapor

1 Addition I would like to make here...............One of the main problems with trying to lower costs making mods is quantity. The more parts you can make at once, the cheaper it is. China is making mods in runs of 1,000 to 5,000 pieces at a time. They can have 2,000 employess getting paid $5 a day to make these mods and they can get them out in a timely fashion because of the shear number of employees they can have CHEAP! They can out-produce America even if they use hammers and chisels to make the parts because they have MILLIONS of low cost employees at their disposal. We do not have that luxury. If we want to make 1,000 to 5,000 piece runs of any mod, we would have to make a LARGE investment in equipment and employees to keep up. It is not impossible, but not too many investors have been willing to step up to the plate yet. But I believe that is starting to change. I hope our company decides to make the investment.........

Saddletramp1200 · Jul 7, 2014

Chainvapor said:
I will answer both of these as best I can:

If you are only making 1 mod, then Saddletramp is correct. You can make a nice high quality mod using manual machines.

It all comes down to quality in quantity. It is extremely hard to make multiple parts within tight tolerances on manual machines without taking an immense amount of time. Saddletramp's shop may be able to make 100 parts within a + or - 0.010" tolerance within a modest amount of time on manual machines, but change that tolerance to +/- 0.0010" or even +/- 0.0005" and it would become a nightmare to get any parts done in a reasonable amount of time. Manual machines typically are for 1 or 2 pieces only. Making multiple parts on manual machines will absolutely kill quality OR will take an immense amount of time. Either way, I would not sacrifice quality to save a buck and even if you did get good quality it would take so long to make the parts, the price would be twice as high as CNC machined parts would cost.

Also 1 of the parts on our mod takes approx 12 minutes to make on one of our CNC machines with 6 different tools ( 2 of which are only 0.040 in diameter). This particular part would be problematic on a manual machine. I would be amazed to see a manual machine that could work with such small tools that run between 10,000 and 14,000 RPM and how long would it take to cut out the part on a manual machine with tools this small?

Last but not least.......this particular mod is not just a "metal tube", it has several parts. The 510 connector cap has 3 pieces for the spring loaded positive pin, 2 pieces for the insulator and the cap itself with the 510 threads in it. The 3 buttons on the DNA are all machined within tight specifications to make them smooth. Then there is the bottom cap which has 3 parts for the Spring loaded negative pin assembly. Then there is the Manual Switch to replace the bottom cap to turn the mod into a 100% mechanical mod. That switch has a few different parts in it as well. The cradle for the DNA is a very complex assembly which was needed to fit it into such a small area to keep the mod length as short as possible.

Can you make a fairly simple mech mod with less machining and less parts? YES. It is called a Four Nine. Simplest mod on the market. But I have to tell you, even the 4 nine mod in all its simplicity is more than just a tube. The switch on the bottom has to be machined to fit well in the bottom of the tube and a magnet pressed or glued into it. The other part of the switch that goes on the negative side of the battery has an insulator that threads into a copper piece with a magnet inside of it. The 510 cap has to have the 510 threads put into it and has to be threaded on the outside to fit the tube it goes in and the other tubes need to be threaded so they fit together.

I really do appreciate the questions and I hope this helps anyone reading to understand a little more about what goes into building a high quality mod. I hope I did not seem harsh in my explanation, because that was definitely not my intent. I have worked in 8 different shops in my 23 years of machining. I have built plastic injection molds, turned automotive parts, and managed an entire company. I have also run various manual mills, manual lathes, and surface grinders. I have programmed, setup, fixtured, and ran many cnc lathes, cnc mills, and a sinker edm. So while I always have more to learn, I am not talking out of total ignorance.

Thank you again for the feedback and questions. Please keep them coming!!
Chainvapor

1 Addition I would like to make here...............One of the main problems with trying to lower costs making mods is quantity. The more parts you can make at once, the cheaper it is. China is making mods in runs of 1,000 to 5,000 pieces at a time. They can have 2,000 employess getting paid $5 a day to make these mods and they can get them out in a timely fashion because of the shear number of employees they can have CHEAP! They can out-produce America even if they use hammers and chisels to make the parts because they have MILLIONS of low cost employees at their disposal. We do not have that luxury. If we want to make 1,000 to 5,000 piece runs of any mod, we would have to make a LARGE investment in equipment and employees to keep up. It is not impossible, but not too many investors have been willing to step up to the plate yet. But I believe that is starting to change. I hope our company decides to make the investment.........

Wonderful way to explain it. Our average part weighs from 5 lbs. to 650 lbs. We would starve to death trying to make small products like Mods. We won't even take a job under 50.00. I am making My Box Mod in the shop, but that's a different matter.

Jgoss · Jul 7, 2014

Yeah...that was a fine way to explain it. I take no offense.

Chainvapor · Jul 9, 2014

Anyone else? Bumpy bumpy.

Chainvapor

Chainvapor · Jul 12, 2014

Ok Everyone. Got a working prototype now. Made a 510 cap today. Here is the video I promised. I tried to make it as short as possible as to not bore anyone to death. Check it out and let me know what you think. All suggestions and comments are welcome!

Disclaimer: I am not a professional reviewer by any stretch of the imagination.

Chainvapor

Saddletramp1200 · Jul 12, 2014

You have done a beautiful job. The per unit retail cost is the only problem that I can see as an issue. I would obtain a Patent on it before anything.

Chainvapor · Jul 12, 2014

Saddletramp1200 said:
You have done a beautiful job. The per unit retail cost is the only problem that I can see as an issue. I would obtain a Patent on it before anything.

Thank you for the compliment. If I can get our company on track for production of this and other mod designs, I am pretty sure the Vice President of the company would get patents on them. Although. patents do not mean much in China

. The inside of that DNA cradle tube is very intricate. Would not be impossible to clone, but it would definitely be difficult. There are a lot more hours in this prototype mod than anyone could probably imagine. I am just really happy to finally have a working model to show for all the work we have put into these.

Chainvapor

Saddletramp1200 · Jul 12, 2014

I know.

gauging interest in DNA30 22mm mod.........pics included

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THE MODFATHER

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