A little help needed with sweetness

[Setanta]

Hi folks

I'm looking to create a Moroccan spearmint tea flavour, and this should be simple, but I need a little advice on how to get the sweetness necessary to this flavour. I normally use a 75%/25% VG/PG mix (6% Nic) as my base so that gives me a start on that sweetness. I'm going to use FA Spearmint for the spearmint, and on HIC's advice (in his notes on FA Green Tea) I'm going to try TFA Green Tea for the tea component.

The problem is, Moroccan Spearmint Tea should be very sweet - The recipe I looked at called for 2 cups of water and 1/4 cup of sugar - and I'm wondering how to get something quite that sweet without masking the spearmint and tea flavours. I have various options (and I'm about to order some new FA and TFA flavours so any advice would be appreciated).

In my stock of flavours I have TFA Sweetener (Never Used), Ethyl Maltol (Never Used), Cotton Candy (Lorann), Meringue (FA) and Honey (TFA). I will be ordering FA Marshmallow, TFA Brown Sugar Extra and TFA Acetyl Pyrazine. Anyone got an idea if any of these would work at the sort of concentration necessary for this flavour? Or is there another more suitable method for sweetening the mix when it gets to these levels?

Stevia seems like it could be a good option if it vapes like it tastes (it tends to have a slightly aniseed aftertaste which could work quite well with the spearmint tea) but I haven't looked into getting it here in the UK as yet.

I could also see a few variations on the theme if I can get the basic flavour right - Honey and/or Lemon spring to mind immediately.

Anyhow, any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Setanta

 

[outwest]

I'm brand new to the DIY world (just placed order for variety of flavors about 30 mins ago), so I'm not much, if any, help, but from what I've been reading, the Ethyl Maltol tends to mute flavors (source: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/master-mixers-tips-and-tricks )

 

[HeadInClouds]

Have you tried plain FA Spearmint yet? I often use mints as sweeteners, just wondering how sweet it tastes to you. It should be about as sweet as a new piece of chewing gum. Nature's Flavors has a sweeter spearmint, but it's not as sharp/clean tasting - it's sort of creamy. Using lots of VG in your nic base helps, because it's naturally sweet. If your nic base isn't great, it will interfere. Best way to know if yours is causing a problem is to try a little batch with no nic.

Of the flavors you mentioned, I'd reach first for TFA Sweetener, which is Sucralose, unless you dislike diet drinks/foods that use Sucralose. It's the purest "sweet" of the ones you listed; try in increments of 0.5% or even 1%. I recommend you take actyl pyrazine off the list for consideration - I'm sure that's not what you want. I don't personally like TFA Honey, but FA Honey is insanely sweet, like sucking on a honey jar. Of course it adds honey flavor. They're both very strong and you want to start probably under 0.25%. A little anise flavor would add sweetness, especially on the inhale, but it does add flavor even at 0.5%. Some people like the flavor of stevia as a sweetener (tastes like stale dust to many others) - just a matter of personal preference. Don't be afraid to use multiple sweeteners, especially if you want the sweetness without distinctive additional flavor. Sometimes tiny bits of several options works best.

 

[nightshard]

Got TFA brown sugar and though in taste similar to brown sugar, it's not particularly sweet.
I use Stevia and the good brands of Stevia which are mostly Rebaudioside A (and not B and C) are not bitter.
I use it at 1%
The usage of smaller quantities or multiple sweetness is a good idea, that's what most food and drink manufacturers do when they use artificial sweeteners in their products.

 

[Setanta]

Have you tried plain FA Spearmint yet?

No, it's one of the flavours in my next order. For this I need that clean, natural spearmint taste so the FA version sounds good. My current spearmint I bought starting out on DIY from CupCakeWorld and it's not suitable at all for this purpose.

If your nic base isn't great, it will interfere. Best way to know if yours is causing a problem is to try a little batch with no nic.

Something I've learned to my cost. I've been making quite a few of your recipes (especially coffee vapes). None of them tasted quite right and all required a long steep to become vapable at all. The reason - really bad nicotine base. I discovered this by making a few flavours nicotine free, so now I always make up a no-nic mixture first to try out a new flavour then add my nicotine and adjust, if necessary, to suit. Many thanks for both your recipes and your notes on flavours - both of which I find indispensable in my own DIY attempts.

Of the flavors you mentioned, I'd reach first for TFA Sweetener, which is Sucralose, unless you dislike diet drinks/foods that use Sucralose.

When it comes to foodstuffs I am one of those who gets that dreadful aftertaste from all artificial sweeteners, so I'm guessing it won't work for me That said, I'll probably give it a try nonetheless and see how it works in a vape.

I recommend you take actyl pyrazine off the list for consideration

Noted - I've read so many conflicting reports on what Acetyl Pyrazine does (including use as a sweetener) I thought I'd consider it but I had doubts about it.

I don't personally like TFA Honey, but FA Honey is insanely sweet

I find the TFA Honey to be a little sickly for my tastes so I'll be adding FA Honey to my order. It may not work in the base flavour I'm trying to create (except in VERY small doses) but it sounds just about perfect for one of the variations I have in mind

A little anise flavor would add sweetness

I'm a little wary of Anise ever since having a bottle of flavouring which not only ate through the bottle which contained it, but went on to leave a rather nasty scar on the plastic box where I keep my flavours! I can't recall the manufacturer but I quickly decided to dump it despite it tasting delicious :/ That said, a hint of anise sounds like it would work well as another variation on the theme so I'll be adding some FA Anise to the order.

Some people like the flavor of stevia as a sweetener (tastes like stale dust to many others) - just a matter of personal preference.

I like Stevia in foods. It does have an aftertaste (to me at least), but it's a rather pleasant one in the right situation. I've found a few places where I can get it in the UK so I'm probably going to give it a try.

Sometimes tiny bits of several options works best.

The more I read the more it seems to be the answer. I'm guessing I have some experimenting coming up using tiny amounts of the various options

Many thanks for the advice. Now I know what I'll be putting in my next order.

Setanta

 

[Setanta]

I'm brand new to the DIY world (just placed order for variety of flavors about 30 mins ago), so I'm not much, if any, help, but from what I've been reading, the Ethyl Maltol tends to mute flavors (source: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/master-mixers-tips-and-tricks )

Yes, I've heard the same myself, and from my use of Cotton Candy as a sweetener (which I believe is just Ethyl Maltol) I find much the same effect. Good where you need to lose some sharpness but not for my purposes here.

Setanta

 

[Setanta]

Got TFA brown sugar and though in taste similar to brown sugar, it's not particularly sweet.
I use Stevia and the good brands of Stevia which are mostly Rebaudioside A (and not B and C) are not bitter.
I use it at 1%
The usage of smaller quantities or multiple sweetness is a good idea, that's what most food and drink manufacturers do when they use artificial sweeteners in their products.

Good to hear about the TFA Brown Sugar - That sounds perfect as an addition to my coffee vapes, though it does mean it's a non-starter for this recipe.

I'll see if I can find the right kind of Stevia here in the UK - Great to know what I'm looking for!

And yeah, multiple sweeteners seems to be the answer given how sweet moroccan spearmint tea tends to be. I think it's be a case of making a quantity of the spearmint/green tea base and slowly adding tiny amounts until I hit the right amount.

Many thanks

Setanta

 

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