Battery Charger/Charging discussion.

[DOAUSMC0331]

Ok so for two days I have been stewing on this so I figured I would throw this out here...

Why do we use external battery chargers?
I understand why a person with a mechanical mod would use one.
But why with regulated mods do we still pull our batteries out to charge them?
The majority of regulated mods support on board charging but we still pull them out to charge?
Does anyone know of an "official" reason why we pull them? Is it written in manuals not to charge the batteries in the device that supports on board charging?
Most of us I'm sure we were told that's "just what you do" or "that's what we/I have always done".

But why do we do it?
Who said that we need to charge them this way?
Mechanical/electrical engineers, manufacturers?

I guess I'm just stewing on it because we charge flashlights, car batteries, video game console remotes, heck , cordless phones, laptops, rccars and tons of other junk. they all have battery packs or cells that could be replaced or swapped out, recharged on board or pulled out to be charge externally?

SO WHY DO WE DO IT?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to reading all the responses

 

[Letitia9]

Balanced charging is probably the main reason most charge externally with convenience being a close second. I have dnas and still charge externally, it's just easier than being tethered imo.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Check out Mooch's recommendation - your specific question is answered at about point 3:30

I'm surprised he did not talk about the importance of external charging if you are using a double or triple battery mod though

 

[DOAUSMC0331]

Balanced charging is probably the main reason most charge externally with convenience being a close second. I have dnas and still charge externally, it's just easier than being tethered imo.

I see that.. but with the chip sets that we have now and have had for a few years wouldn't the mod developers already compensate for that with balance charging?
If the manufacturer recomends on board charging
Wouldn't they have thought of that?

This is just a educational conversation not an argument. FYI to all.

 

[Letitia9]

I see that.. but with the chip sets that we have now and have had for a few years wouldn't the mod developers already compensate for that with balance charging?
If the manufacturer recomends on board charging
Wouldn't they have thought of that?

This is just a educational conversation not an argument. FYI to all.

If you watch the technical reviews not many chips actually achieve a balanced charge or a full 4.2 charge. Manufacturers make many claims that simply aren't true. We see this over and over in any industry. From my perspective on batteries they should always be treated with judicious respect and we should never be lax where safety is concerned. People that know and understand these things much better than I recommend external charging, I choose to listen to this advice. This does not mean that I think anyone who chooses on board charging is necessarily wrong to do so. It's just not what I do.

 

[DOAUSMC0331]

Agree fully,
This could also be a marketing ploy by the mod manufacturers. Because if your new to vaping and your buying your first mod the last thing your going to want to hear is "hey dude you just bought the mod and the batteries; now you need to buy this charger to make it all work.
Sounds logical right.

 

[DOAUSMC0331]

So if we go off of the battery balance issue then you could successfully on board charge single cell mods.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I always recommend external charging and extra batteries - especially to beginners. A dead battery is a great excuse to smoke - if you have additional batts, you can switch out the dead battery with a fresh one and have to go through the hassle of bypass, especially if you are out and about

 

[The Cromwell]

I see that.. but with the chip sets that we have now and have had for a few years wouldn't the mod developers already compensate for that with balance charging?
If the manufacturer recomends on board charging
Wouldn't they have thought of that?

This is just a educational conversation not an argument. FYI to all.

VERY few multi battery mods have balanced internal charging.
And many onboard charging circuits leave a lot to be desired. I have read many reports of internal charging circuits failing some pretty dramatically.
You often get faster charge times with an external charger.
And finally with an internal charger a user may use a substandard adapter which can cause failures in the charging circuit.

 

[SteveS45]

I charge using both methods but not because of any imbalance in charging but because I want to use that particular MOD and will not be near a USB Port. I have tested the batteries after charging in the MOD with a Voltmeter and I found no difference between the charge applied by my MOD's and the chargers I use. Maybe some of the first Chips did not charge efficiently but like you said Technological advances.

 

[Sarcastic1]

I was told NOT to use 18650 batteries like those that came with my tactical lights.. (e.g. Surefire or Fenix). Is that accurate? Something about those flashlight batteries even though they're high output including some protection circuitry? Was told to stick with what came with my unit or something like the Samsung 20s and LG HG2. I have an Aegis Legend. Sorry..I'm new to all of this.

 

[Jinx'd]

I was told NOT to use 18650 batteries like those that came with my tactical lights.. (e.g. Surefire or Fenix). Is that accurate? Something about those flashlight batteries even though they're high output including some protection circuitry? Was told to stick with what came with my unit or something like the Samsung 20s and LG HG2. I have an Aegis Legend. Sorry..I'm new to all of this.

look at this.
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/found-se-us18650gr.39949/

 

[Vape Fan]

I use external charging only, except for the 1 built in battery mod that I have.
Because chargers are built from the ground up to do exactly that. And they have safety and other features a mod won't have.

What about when the batteries need charged? You don't vape? or hope the mod has passthrough (I think this is what Lucy meant?) and you're tethered till it's charged which will take longer because your using it too? No, what happens is - you plug in the mod to charge the batteries while your sleeping. Bad.
Or, you have more than 1 mod and use another while charging one. If that's the case, then you have more than 1 mod and more than 1 set of batteries. Which means you, if for no other reason, have enough gear to have a charger. A good 2 bay charger is $20 or less.
With a charger, it's easier to charge the batteries when you can be around while they charge. Leaving these batteries we use unattended or worse yet sleeping while charging isn't a good thing to do.

I was told NOT to use 18650 batteries like those that came with my tactical lights.. (e.g. Surefire or Fenix). Is that accurate? Something about those flashlight batteries even though they're high output including some protection circuitry? Was told to stick with what came with my unit or something like the Samsung 20s and LG HG2. I have an Aegis Legend. Sorry..I'm new to all of this.

Right. No flashlight batteries for vaping. Anything with Sure or Fire, or Amp,,,in it's name, is not a good vaping battery. The 3 most used and trusted brands are Samsung, Sony, LG. For your Legend, probably Samsung 30Q or Sony VCT6 for 60ish+W, but depends on if you vape at high wattages. You could need more amps.
Have a look here in your spare time. Mooch also has a lot of battery info on FB.
Moochs Video Library and Battery Table Links

 

[Carambrda]

Navigate to 27:39 in the video.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

You could charge your cells with the mod but chargers treat our cells better to extend their life. Batteries that are charged poorly on a regular basis are more dangerous, probably not much mind you but when they are frequently very near my pretty face I don’t want to take any chances. Other reasons are it’s more convenient to just swap them rather then being tethered by a cord while charging. One final reason is the usb plug on our mods aren’t made as solid as our much more expensive cellphones so to avoid the risk of breaking the usb which may also affect the board and thus the mod. I’m not opposed to charging internally, I’ve done it several times over the years but for the reasons stated above it’s usually just better to swap them out.

 

[Carambrda]

You could charge your cells with the mod but chargers treat our cells better to extend their life. Batteries that are charged poorly on a regular basis are more dangerous, probably not much mind you but when they are frequently very near my pretty face I don’t want to take any chances. Other reasons are it’s more convenient to just swap them rather then being tethered by a cord while charging. One final reason is the usb plug on our mods aren’t made as solid as our much more expensive cellphones so to avoid the risk of breaking the usb which may also affect the board and thus the mod. I’m not opposed to charging internally, I’ve done it several times over the years but for the reasons stated above it’s usually just better to swap them out.

The video I linked already has all the correct answers... without proper testing of a mod's internal charger there's just no way of telling whether it can be safe so that reason alone should be sufficient to reach for an external charger as frequently as you possibly can choose between internal vs external, and, again if possible, only resort to internal charging in some limited situations like, for example, to prevent the batteries from running out before you arrive back home from work in the possible event that you forgot to charge your spare set of batteries because you were drunk/intoxicated or you and your hangover had just arrived at work when suddenly you noticed you forgot to grab your spares in the morning when you took off for work.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

The video I linked already has all the correct answers... without proper testing of a mod's internal charger there's just no way of telling whether it can be safe so that reason alone should be sufficient to reach for an external charger as frequently as you possibly can choose between internal vs external, and, again if possible, only resort to internal charging in some limited situations like, for example, to prevent the batteries from running out before you arrive back home from work in the possible event that you forgot to charge your spare set of batteries because you were drunk/intoxicated or you and your hangover had just arrived at work when suddenly you noticed you forgot to grab your spares in the morning when you took off for work.

Holy run-on sentence Batman. That’s a mouth full

 

[Jinx'd]

just my opinion. but I am sure that the internal chargers have gotten better.
as have the mods they are in. and the batts themselves.
tech is advancing. but when possible, it is advisable to external charge. as this makes 1 less thing to go wrong with a mod.

 

[Carambrda]

Holy run-on sentence Batman. That’s a mouth full

 

[The Cromwell]

just my opinion. but I am sure that the internal chargers have gotten better.
as have the mods they are in. and the batts themselves.
tech is advancing. but when possible, it is advisable to external charge. as this makes 1 less thing to go wrong with a mod.

Why would they get better?
A few might but most go for cheap and profit margin.
Has Smok improved?

Think I will start making walking canes that are actually Stacked mech mods. Maybe 8 or 10 cells with an electric cattle prod on the bottom
10 cells I could get 1200 watts or so...


Need some titanium tubing the right diameter....

Old Phart vaper with an attitude

 

[Jinx'd]

Why would they get better?


Old Phart vaper with an attitude

by default = the only parts and materials they can get are better.


nutt'n wrong wit that.

 

[The Cromwell]

by default = the only parts and materials they can get are better.


nutt'n wrong wit that.

But if it lasts long enuf to get past the warranty period most of the time and then fails they sell more units and make more profit.
We are a disposable society.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Why would they get better?
A few might but most go for cheap and profit margin.
Has Smok improved?

Think I will start making walking canes that are actually Stacked mech mods. Maybe 8 or 10 cells with an electric cattle prod on the bottom
10 cells I could get 1200 watts or so...


Need some titanium tubing the right diameter....

Old Phart vaper with an attitude

Let me e know when and where I can get my cattle prod, mech mod cane. I’m definitely getting one but I do have a question that will need answering before we go any further. Can I Charge Internally or do I need to remove them to charge externally? I’m just worried with the mech/prod/cane using 8-10 batteries, balanced charging is more important than ever.

P.S. when will you make one that uses the 21700, and also a Squonk cane?

 

[The Cromwell]

Let me e know when and where I can get my cattle prod, mech mod cane. I’m definitely getting one but I do have a question that will need answering before we go any further. Can I Charge Internally or do I need to remove them to charge externally? I’m just worried with the mech/prod/cane using 8-10 batteries, balanced charging is more important than ever.

P.S. when will you make one that uses the 21700, and also a Squonk cane?

Have to remove to charge. hmm need a 10 bay charger too..

btw the name will be The Codger Mod.

 

[Ryedan]

I've had one mod that had a built in battery, a Vapor Shark DNA 40 from a few years ago. It charged a 2500 mAh battery at around 2A in its high charge rate phase. As far as I know it was a good charger in that it had a good reputation for not failing and it never let me down. The whole mod warmed up more than liked though while it was doing that, every time.

Neat. It charged fast. OTOH, I didn't really like that the mod warmed up so much, because that meant the battery was getting hotter than that. And that was warmer than I want my batteries getting for a typical charge.

Also, not being able to take the battery out of the mod meant it would slowly discharge when the mod was in storage, even when the mod was turned off. Slowly, like about a month to empty a fully charged battery. I don't know how common this is today but I didn't like that at the time.

All my mods since then have had removable batteries. I take them out when I store them for more than a couple of weeks. I like that.

I could still charge my batteries in my mods, they all have chargers built in, but I always use an external charger. The batteries charge cooler because they are not enclosed in the mod. I can chose the charge rate, generally 1 amp and up to 2 or occasionally 3 when I am in a hurry which may happen a couple of times a year because I screwed up and need a battery now. Even then, I know the charger, the battery is open to the air and I can check the battery temperature any time I feel like it. I just like the control this gives me.

 

[Bigrick]

Why would they get better?
A few might but most go for cheap and profit margin.
Has Smok improved?

Think I will start making walking canes that are actually Stacked mech mods. Maybe 8 or 10 cells with an electric cattle prod on the bottom
10 cells I could get 1200 watts or so...


Need some titanium tubing the right diameter....

Old Phart vaper with an attitude

I think that is an amazing idea!!! Especially the cattle prod option!!! If someone dislikes the giagantic clouds you can zap them in the ass!!! Added tactical light so you can get them in the dark. Pure awesomeness. What would you coil it with?

 

[The Cromwell]

I think that is an amazing idea!!! Especially the cattle prod option!!! If someone dislikes the giagantic clouds you can zap them in the ass!!! Added tactical light so you can get them in the dark. Pure awesomeness. What would you coil it with?

probably 12 ga nichrome?
Might just make it regulated and could vape for 6 weeks at 25W?
Or a squonker with a 120 ml bottle?

 

[Jinx'd]

But if it lasts long enuf to get past the warranty period most of the time and then fails they sell more units and make more profit.
We are a disposable society.

true. but if that happens enough = bad reputation. lots of money is spend in development to see that anything lasts only so long.
some doesn't get out of warranty, some lasts much longer than that.

 

[Carambrda]

true. but if that happens enough = bad reputation. lots of money is spend in development to see that anything lasts only so long.
some doesn't get out of warranty, some lasts much longer than that.

Actually no, if it happens enough = it becomes the only norm, globally, across multiple different industries. Here in the EU, any electric device that can be plugged into a wall outlet must have a 2 year warranty period according to EU law, and that law was passed here simply because this "bad reputation" thing that you mention has had no serious ill effect on the big brands or big mass manufacturers, their all-overgrowing corporate greed, when pretty much each and every last one of these huge corporations was thriving on the exact same malpractices and lack of human responsibility, and lack of common decency principles in an unstoppable, globalist, universal way.

 

[The Cromwell]

Actually no, if it happens enough = it becomes the only norm, globally, across multiple different industries. Here in the EU, any electric device that can be plugged into a wall outlet must have a 2 year warranty period according to EU law, and that law was passed here simply because this "bad reputation" thing that you mention has had no serious ill effect on the big brands or big mass manufacturers, their all-overgrowing corporate greed, when pretty much each and every last one of these huge corporations was thriving on the exact same malpractices and lack of human responsibility, and lack of common decency principles in an unstoppable, globalist, universal way.

Since no mods I have seen can be plugged directly into the mains power the 2 yr warranty would not apply.
It would however apply to any charging devices used with the mod to charge internal or external batteries.

And yes historical evidence shows that for the vast majority of them, industry will only regulate itself when forced by external pressures. Be those pressures from lawsuits, extreme loss of sales or govt regulations. And this applies to product reliability/quality, worker safety, product safety and environmental concerns.

The only natural internal regulation that the majority of industries have is to maximize/increase profits.

And no I am not anti industry just realize the truths of them.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

This reminds me of a light bulb in a firehouse out west somewhere, I don’t remember maybe California. The firemen all touch the lightbulb that hangs from the ceiling on there way out on a call for good luck. One of they guys asked if the bulb has ever been changed. After some research the captain found out the bulb had been on and has never been turned off since it was installed in 1900 something and has been on for over 100 years. Well they used to make lightbulbs with thick filaments and they never burned out. So because no one needed lightbulbs they weren’t selling the lightbulb so makers got together to design a bulb that would burn out after 6 months or something don’t remember the actual length of time. That’s some good ole fashion ingenuity from the lightbulb industry to increase sales.

 

[Carambrda]

Since no mods I have seen can be plugged directly into the mains power the 2 yr warranty would not apply.

That also is part of the reason why I own so many mech mods. With so much metal tubing, I could be a plumber in both this life and the next.