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CEASES AND DESIST: YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT CLONES


VaporJoe

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fq06

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Freedom of speech brother. Our founding fathers wrote it and our veterans fought to keep it.
Talking about it is not selling it, you can't stop that, they are asshats for thinking they can. They should ask the attorney's for a refund because they are just taking a fee for what they know can't be enforced.
 

VapinChevy

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Freedom of speech brother. Our founding fathers wrote it and our veterans fought to keep it.
Talking about it is not selling it, you can't stop that, they are asshats for thinking they can. They should ask the attorney's for a refund because they are just taking a fee for what they know can't be enforced.
Well Said
 

BigNasty

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Freedom of speech brother. Our founding fathers wrote it and our veterans fought to keep it.
Talking about it is not selling it, you can't stop that, they are asshats for thinking they can. They should ask the attorney's for a refund because they are just taking a fee for what they know can't be enforced.
Hey wait a minute... I am kind of all for the lawyers raping the corrupt commie stars of the "commission".. less money they have to attempt to enforce their will on the rest of us... I did not elect them to speak for me, and this is a free country...

Turn about is fair play IMHO.

@VapinChevy yep agree there... this veteran says come and take it... I think this works also to their C&D demand.
 

KREAM

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Ok so first they want to go after the China clone manufacturers but they know that will be futile. So then they want to go after the reselling clone vendors and some have and will continue to cave in. Now they want to go after the bloggers and forums who talk about or post links to clones that you can purchase and Joe says "fuck you".

So what's next....
Will I and others, as the purchasers and end users of the clones, be the next ones the mod makers send stupid ass c&ds to, threatening to sue us for vaping clones. For fucks sake, when will it stop! There are enough vapers in this world for everybody who's enterprising to make money and have a piece of the pie without trying to tear the community apart. Vape what you want, buy what you want and talk about what you want....whatever keeps you from smoking and lets you sleep at night.
 

BigNasty

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Ok so first they want to go after the China clone manufacturers but they know that will be futile. So then they want to go after the reselling clone vendors and some have and will continue to cave in. Now they want to go after the bloggers and forums who talk about or post links to clones that you can purchase and Joe says "fuck you".

So what's next....
Will I and others, as the purchasers and end users of the clones, be the next ones the mod makers send stupid ass c&ds to, threatening to sue us for vaping clones. For fucks sake, when will it stop! There are enough vapers in this world for everybody who's enterprising to make money and have a piece of the pie without trying to tear the community apart. Vape what you want, buy what you want and talk about what you want....whatever keeps you from smoking and lets you sleep at night.
No what is next is them confronting people vaping clones like they did at ecc...
Wait please let them waddle up to me with their wrong way pointed Iphone, cheeto stains and confront me vaping a clone....sure they might out weight by a lard (<-intentional) chunk of weight but I am meaner and nastier than they are with an over whelming urge to see how well a iphone can be inserted sideways...(the correct way to take videos with it.)
 
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Cruel-Phate

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Just a pile of dumb asses trying to intimidate the community because they think the world owes them something because they assume they are missing out on lining there pockets. I am all for quality mods but there is absolutely nothing wrong with clones...I have a mortgage, I buy what I can afford and appeals to me and I put out for name brand if the clone product is that good on the clone test drive. I say fuck them, we are the consumer that can make or break them. Here anyhow...We are Americans and we don't negotiate with bullies :) I agree, tell them to bring it!
 

NiteWolfe Creations

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My understanding is most of the mod makers do not have any registered trademarks, copyrights or patents.
With out those they do not have a leg to stand on.
Even the ones that do have them cant enforce them on oversea's companies.

Lets face a fact that is coming very very soon. all IP laws are about to become worthless in ANY industry.
3D printers are advancing rapidly along with 3D scanners. Along with that advancements in 3D printer filaments.
I follow 3D printing heavily. I have seen metal based filaments now. Its just a mater of time till you see a friend with a mod. Borrow it, break it down and scan it then print your own.
And again this goes for ANY product. Hell even leap frog is making a 3D printer. You know leap frog? The people that make things for kids to use.
Are the police goign to come arrest little Jane for printing out a copyrighted toy?
3D printing and scanning is going to force everyone to re-evaluate current IP laws.
 

BigNasty

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My understanding is most of the mod makers do not have any registered trademarks, copyrights or patents.
With out those they do not have a leg to stand on.
Even the ones that do have them cant enforce them on oversea's companies.

Lets face a fact that is coming very very soon. all IP laws are about to become worthless in ANY industry.
3D printers are advancing rapidly along with 3D scanners. Along with that advancements in 3D printer filaments.
I follow 3D printing heavily. I have seen metal based filaments now. Its just a mater of time till you see a friend with a mod. Borrow it, break it down and scan it then print your own.
And again this goes for ANY product. Hell even leap frog is making a 3D printer. You know leap frog? The people that make things for kids to use.
Are the police goign to come arrest little Jane for printing out a copyrighted toy?
3D printing and scanning is going to force everyone to re-evaluate current IP laws.
HAHAHAHA they cannot even get the plans or ips of the gun schematics for 3d printers off the web how in the blue waffle are they expecting to regulate 3d printed mods.

When 3d metal printing hits the mass market a ton of those 5 axis cnc machined broken flashlights are going to plummet.
 

brandon

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Shut all the vendors down!
 
If they want to do this legal stuff, then they need to grow up and play the game like the big boys....
Develop a product (don't show anyone until it's ready for release). Before you do--make sure you trademark on your company name and product name. Next patten your product. Then and then only then release your product and sell it.

China is a lost cause, no way you can nail them unless they have US operation. you can go after the stores/on-lines, and even have US customs confiscate clones, but it's futile in this industry currently.

Problem is: if you win your case you got to collect the money....good luck!

If US mod builders did all of this in the first place...I can see the reason for these high $$$ mods, and I would be behind them on what they are trying to do.
IMO, they currently are sticking to the customer on price. Done right, these mods can be much less than what they cost...if you all really knew the actual pricing on making this stuff (E-juice included) you would scream bloody hell!

OK, off the soap-box...flame away!

To bad Vapor Joe never responds to emails, I've invited him a few times to come to China to see the reality of MFG, but no answer :(
 

brandon

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YES COMRADE!! all sales through the state and oligarchs dictating what little money we are graced with to be spent where they tell us.
Glad you agree
 

brandon

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I just got my jwrap made #fuckthe99%
 

BigNasty

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This! Joe, you should make public the names of every mod maker who has directly attempted to curtail your speech. Post their letter/email as well inclusive of address so that they can receive direct backlash for idiocy.
Hmm they could attempt to twist it if joe did that as libel...
Joe if you do that get some insulation between you and them legally... forward it to a handful of people willing to protect themselves and out them.
 

PAPAW

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If not for the authentic supporters, cloners would have nothing to copy. You should be thanking the elitist for buying authentic and supporting modders. We buy it, than comes the clone.....duhhh!! So you are welcome!
 

PAPAW

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SHow me one authentic that was designed after a clone..... LMAO
 

BigNasty

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If not for the authentic supporters, cloners would have nothing to copy. You should be thanking the elitist for buying authentic and supporting modders. We buy it, than comes the clone.....duhhh!! So you are welcome!
No pawpaw the difference between an authentic consumer and what these jack asses are doing is night and day.
It is like Nabisco telling you the only sandwich cookie is an oreo and all you are allowed to buy is oreo, if you eat a hydrox they are going to threaten you.
 

brandon

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If not for the authentic supporters, cloners would have nothing to copy. You should be thanking the elitist for buying authentic and supporting modders. We buy it, than comes the clone.....duhhh!! So you are welcome!
you're right what would they do without us?! Preach on sista
 

PAPAW

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Hypothetically Nasy if that were true, your going to compare Nabisco profits to a modders ?
 

fuzzyone

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First off, you can't sue a forum or social network. Secondly, you can't take a person's right to freedom of speech away from them. Thirdly, someone please post a list of the modders who are trying to pull this shit. I want to send THEM a C&D for violating our rights to freedom of speech.

Sent from my LGL75C using Tapatalk 2
 

BigNasty

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@pawpaw no but is an analogy.
What these C&D letters are is nothing more than some massive butthurt on something that is not protected by trademark or patent with implying they are. Which with enough of a shark lawyer could be argued the C&D senders are harassing people... for a link or mention or reference to a link on a out of country based message board.
Now fucking around with established businesses when and if they are on shaky legal ground by not having a trademark and or patent they are willfully committing a crime.
Interfering with interstate commerce..
1. 18 USC - 1951 - Interference with commerce by threats or violence
(a)Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.


Honestly I think they should rethink of shitting where they eat and shitting on potential customers...Now is NOT the time for waves their future is a tenuous as the rest of us with the FDA and bans looming.

When they start pursuing shipments and interfering with international trade andcommerce the DOJ and Department of commerce will start looking at them also... along with the IRS and state and local revenue agencies.. If they are conspiring and organizing on threats or legal action, and actions they might be close some serious legal violations under the broad blanket of RICO.

There are enough laws on the federal level to indict a ham sandwich.
 
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buffaloguy

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As someone who is a patent holder, this is absolutely, positively, 100% dead on correct. Nailed it. You have every right to contact the state atty general and demand a criminal complaint be filed.

Patents and trademarks are there for a reason. They are.expensive for a reason. You have to prove your invention is unique. Its not easy to do. No mech would be considered unique because despite artistic differences they all work the same. A different shape, logo, imprint, or even a spring/switch assembly does not suffice as unique. So good luck getting a patent.

Just like those asshats and their trademark over their box mod. All anyone has to do is remove the logos. They cant do squat about the box itself being identical.

All these asshats need to go hide in a hole. Inventions are hard work and they have no right claiming anything when EVERY SINGLE MECHANICAL MOD IS A CLONE OF A CLONE OF A CLONE. Different sized tubes and logos makes no damn difference. Just because you are the first company to write manhattan or dna30 on a mod doesnt mean its not a clone. It technically IS still a reproduction of existing technology.

I say... fuck em for not being being smart enough to invent something NEW and PATENT it.

@pawpaw no but is an analogy.
What these C&D letters are is nothing more than some massive butthurt on something that is not protected by trademark or patent with implying they are. Which with enough of a shark lawyer could be argued the C&D senders are harassing people... for a link or mention or reference to a link on a out of country based message board.
Now fucking around with established businesses when and if they are on shaky legal ground by not having a trademark and or patent they are willfully committing a crime.
Interfering with interstate commerce..
1. 18 USC - 1951 - Interference with commerce by threats or violence
(a)Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
 

retrox

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Is there a complete list of the manufacturers affiliated with this so-called "commission?" Skeleton Key Mech is the only one specifically mentioned thus far.

I wish them the best of luck with their crusade. With China properly reinvesting capital in R&D instead of squandering it to pursue unenforceable regulation, many of these US manufacturers will be scrapping over market share in the very near future anyway. I will do my part to ensure that worthy US companies like ProVape and HoH continue to thrive.

Protip for El Comisión: Fancy engravings and queerly-shaped metal bits ≠ innovation. Only a select few vapers will ever care about your latest artful design, and only a handful of them will be willing and able to shell out for it. Those who buy clones are not, have never been, and will never be a part of that limited demographic. So you damn well better keep those limited edition runs on your production line, otherwise you're gonna be flipping burgers by 2016.

The majority of us want new and exciting products at reasonable prices, and Shenzhen is delivering. For every door you kick closed, they will open two more. So keep on kicking. Kick until it hurts. What do I care, it's your foot. And while you're busy staring lovingly at your shiny, precious metal tube, China is busy using their collective foot to kick your collective asses. So stop jerking off for a second and pay attention to what you should be doing. Kicking doors ain't it, but like I said: It's your foot.

Probably not a good idea to fuck with Twisted420's and VJ's doors, though. Might wanna give those a pass. I hear they're made of sturdier stuff. Mind yer toes. ;)
 

BigNasty

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As someone who is a patent holder, this is absolutely, positively, 100% dead on correct. Nailed it. You have every right to contact the state atty general and demand a criminal complaint be filed.

Patents and trademarks are there for a reason. They are.expensive for a reason. You have to prove your invention is unique. Its not easy to do. No mech would be considered unique because despite artistic differences they all work the same. A different shape, logo, imprint, or even a spring/switch assembly does not suffice as unique. So good luck getting a patent.

Just those asshats and their trademark over their box mod. All anyone has to do is remove the logos. They cant do squat about the box itself being identical.

All these asshats need to go hide in a hole. Inventions are hard work and they have no right claiming anything when EVERY SINGLE MECHANICAL MOD IS A CLONE OF A CLONE OF A CLONE. Different sized tubes and logos makes no damn difference.

I say... fuck em for not being being smart enough to invent something NEW and PATENT it.
If they were smart they would be paying the guy who invented the click button flash light or his estate... that is honestly all that it is...

Break it down... battery + button + or - wiring = current to a fixed point for electricity or charge to light up coil... or a broader aspect a filament in a tube form factor..
HOLY shit that is exactly a flashlight. well I'll be dipped in shit.. paging Nicola Tesla and Westinghouse... DC current being used.

Just cause I like Bang and Olufsen styling does not mean I can afford a pair of their speakers, nor does it mean they have a right demand any other manufacturer stop selling or advertising a similar product.
 
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Phone Guy

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Ok, here's my question.... can "they" actually stop china from producing and selling mods with logos? Thats the whole beef here.... I mean otherwise a mech mod is a tube with a connector and a switch......... (for the sake of this argument just agree here). What I understood by reading or hearing somewhere, cant remember where, they wanted to stop the logos. I think I even heard fasttech no longer has anything with the GP (paps) logo....? does this alliance really have the ability and power to stop china from making mods with logos? :eek:
 

BigNasty

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Ok, here's my question.... can "they" actually stop china from producing and selling mods with logos? Thats the whole beef here.... I mean otherwise a mech mod is a tube with a connector and a switch......... (for the sake of this argument just agree here). What I understood by reading or hearing somewhere, cant remember where, they wanted to stop the logos. I think I even heard fasttech no longer has anything with the GP (paps) logo....? does this alliance really have the ability and power to stop china from making mods with logos? :eek:
Different country different rules and trade agreements.

But by all means the illegal stateside commission should aim their limitless money guns right the fuck toward china's legal system and fire both barrels... just the idea a "commission" or cartel is an abomination of the very principles of free market and trade, a half way decent lawyer if informed on their actions would be advising them to run not walk away from the folly of chosen venture.

Honestly outside of food, how to survive epic smog, and SARS please give me one example of them producing an original idea or product?
 
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allby

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I want a list of every one of these vendors/manufacturers so I know who to NEVER fucking buy from.
Me too. they are not helping them selves with this bullshit. I wasn't one to rush out and buy authentics in the first place. But now fuck em they can take their bully tactics and their mods and go straight to hell
 

VapingJunkie

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Different country different rules and trade agreements.

But by all means the illegal stateside commission should aim their limitless money guns right the fuck toward china's legal system and fire both barrels... just the idea a "commission" or cartel is an abomination of the very principles of free market and trade, a half way decent lawyer if informed on their actions would be advising them to run not walk away from the folly of chosen venture.

Honestly outside of food, how to survive epic smog, and SARS please give me one example of them producing an original idea or product?
Don't be a racist asshole. They made Dance Dance Revolution, and apparently make you mad.

Sent from the Otter Box around my Galaxy S4.
 

Z3vapor

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I'll C&D for sure - Clone and Distribute. The more these guys keep pushing their agenda, my response will always be to keep buying more clones from China. I'm waiting for the 26650 AR15 Canon and Bomber mod. Clone these babies and make daddy very happy.
 

BigNasty

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Don't be a racist asshole. They made Dance Dance Revolution, and apparently make you mad.

Sent from the Otter Box around my Galaxy S4.
I thought that was Japanese or South Korea for that game idea... If it was a Chinese ploy to destroy arcades they did a bang up job of it.
 

Whiskey

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Just a pile of dumb asses trying to intimidate the community because they think the world owes them something because they assume they are missing out on lining there pockets. I am all for quality mods but there is absolutely nothing wrong with clones...I have a mortgage, I buy what I can afford and appeals to me and I put out for name brand if the clone product is that good on the clone test drive. I say fuck them, we are the consumer that can make or break them. Here anyhow...We are Americans and we don't negotiate with bullies :) I agree, tell them to bring it!
True, I laugh, they will fail
 

m3rma1d

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I work for a luxury retailer. I take issue with fake designer/luxury products, but not with cloned vape stuff.
Why? I don't know. I know I have a reason somewhere in me, but I can't quite form it into words yet.
It's different. I just can't explain how, but it is.
 

Tripster

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Mother fuckers have enough money for this shit but produce mods that are pre-order only and when they run out...they're out till they get done with legal bullshit...fuck those mother fuckers.

I'm drunk!
 
This doesn't get much simpler to me - if mod makers really want their products to be able to compete in the market, lower the damned cost. It obviously can be done if your shit is being cloned for $15. Want real proof? Mutation X. Major props to Zen for taking this the way he is. Everyone else, lower your damn costs or get run out of business. This isn't 2012 when $120+ for an RDA made some sense given the small niche market you were in. This is 2014, vaping is booming, you have a comparatively massive potential customer base now, but you still expect to get niche market prices? Fuck off. Adapt, or gtfo of the way so China can do your job for you. If you really think I'm going to shell out $250+ for a metal tube with a spring and a 510 connection, you're out of your damn mind.
 

dave/jayce

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Im a father to be in two short months and have been a step father to two beautiful children that have a beat ass dad. I stopped smoking because of those two children. I was only able to stop because of vaping clones. I owe clones and clone makers a huge thank you for allowing my pockets to be able to purchase them. Im the guy that buys the $4 dollar shirt from last seasons rack in 3 different colors. Fuck me if anyone thinks i would ever buy a 5inch piece of metal tube with a cool design engraved on it for $200 plus. HA!!!!! NEVER!!!! Even if i had it i wouldn't, i mean couldnt spend that kind of money. Keep pushing clones cause i KNOW ghere are plenty more ppl out there like me, well minus the same $4 dollar shirt in 3 different colors
 

BigNasty

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I work for a luxury retailer. I take issue with fake designer/luxury products, but not with cloned vape stuff.
Why? I don't know. I know I have a reason somewhere in me, but I can't quite form it into words yet.
It's different. I just can't explain how, but it is.
I think the main reason is this, so correct me if I am wrong.
Luxury/designer items are counterfeited sold as said luxury items at the luxury item price point or near enough to hinder and disrupt your potential sales. Which has a direct impact on your income and your lively hood and everyone in that store. So when that faux item fails you take the fall out.

Where as a clone or styled mod is just that a clone. It only really impacts the "authentic" maker when it is sold as their product, or it was passed off as an authentic maker's work at their price point.
 

Nailz

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Well they are sort of winning, skeleton key clone is hard to find, as most places that did have them, have taken them down due to the mod maker, and the same is now going on with the squape clone too, and this is china sites taking them clones down too, not sure how they are doing it, but they are, just hope it isn't the future, or it will be the vapers who lose out, and wouldn't be surprised if the mod makers put prices up even more if they win on the clone front.
 
I have had real mixed feelings on this topic for a while now. If I could afford to go the authentic route across the board I would. I'm sure most people would, out of sheer respect. However there is still that "test drive" side of me which likes the idea of a low priced clone. If the clone passes and the real deal is available I pull the trigger on it.

I see both sides of this argument but they are making themselves look like a bunch of assclowns. Greedy, scared and childish ones at that. Clones make a lot of us want the real deal and also keep the entry price point into the mod market reasonable enough that the authentic makers could never have kept up on supply.

Without the clones and us talking about them the whole landscape would be a lot different. The clone business model sucks rotten ass and is completely foreign to my blue collar sensibilities, but inhaling vapor instead of tar was foreign at one point too.

I learned that was good for me, just as clones are.
 

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