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Correlation, not Causation, but...

DogMan

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Up until 2020, I vaped 50mg nic + 9mg WTA (WTA is not 1 ingredient like nic. It is a mixture of mostly nictine, plus about 8% comprised of 5 minor alkaloids and some monoamine oxide inhibitior)

It needs to be very strongly noted that early 2020 and beyond has been far from normal

Since then, I have weaned off WTA, and weaned nic to 33.5mg

It just recently occurred to me, the correlation with exacerbation of OCD symptoms

OCD is not what the media say it is

OCD, my brain sounds like this:


With thoughts of violence, incest, rape etc

It got me thinking to early in my journey. Around 2014 I trialed lowering nic, and experienced similar

I tried dripping some 36mg WTA and experienced brain peace

And i had a swedish snus, with similar results

No conclusion can be drawn from this, but I thunk I'd mention it

Nic was properly banned (and WTA more so) in Australia recently, hence the taper
 

nadalama

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I am far out of my depth to make any recommendation, except to suggest that you discuss with your primary pdoc, I do recall reading warnings about mixing MAOIs with other types of psychoactive medications, but that may not even be worth discussing if WTAs cannot be prescribed or purchased there.

I agree so much with Goph and wish you didn't have these challenges to face every day. From your descriptions of the attention and cooperation you receive from your medical support team, though, I am happy you are in Oz and not in the USA. It sounds like you receive much better care there than you would here. :hug:
 

DogMan

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I am far out of my depth to make any recommendation, except to suggest that you discuss with your primary pdoc, I do recall reading warnings about mixing MAOIs with other types of psychoactive medications, but that may not even be worth discussing if WTAs cannot be prescribed or purchased there.
MAOI antidepressants inhibit MAO - Bs, smoking/tobacco inhibit MAO - A

which is good, since MAO - B inhibition can make common foods like cheese really bad news
 

DogMan

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To medical staff of my care team


I am not medically trained. The following is based on a layman’s understanding of tobacco addiction, not limited to nicotine


Nicotine as the primary compound associated with tobacco addiction and dependence came from a Surgeon General’s report in the USA. The vast majority of study around tobacco dependence focus on nicotine


But, in addition to nicotine, tobacco also contains 5 minor alkaloids anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine. These alkaloids are psychoactive, and account for disparity of nicotine as stimulant, and anecdotal accounts of relaxation


The alkaloid profile of tobacco depends on the individual plant, but is usually around 92% of the alkaloid profile as nicotine, and the remaining 8% as the 5 minor alkaloids


There is also apparently a very slight inhibition of monoamine oxidase A


As with other things, I don’t have a science background. This is just layman reading on the subject


Up until around 2019, there were 5 vape liquid manufacturers in the USA who produced “Whole Tobacco Alkaloids” or “WTA” or full spectrum vape fluid. With the USA Deeming Regulations and increased controls, all but 1 shut down. The remaining 1, Mother’s Milk WTA, label theirs as “For research purposes” on the bottle, to cheat regulations. They were always the lowest quality of the 5 companies


In 2020, the Australian Government closed the loophole in the SUSMP Poisons Schedule, which allowed importation of nicotine, provided it wasn’t labelled “For therapeutic use” and made no health claims. Liquid nicotine for vaping was then by prescription only, with added fine print that nicotine is the only permissible active ingredient in vape fluid. Which effectively banned WTA even by prescription


So, from early 2020, I began weaning both nicotine and WTA. 2019, I vaped 5% nicotine plus 0.9% WTA (Comprised of 92% Nicotine and 8% Minor Alkaloids anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine)


By 2022, armed with a few litres of 500mg/ml or 50% nicotine in my freezer, and a decent supply of 3.6% WTA from Aroma e-cig, I had weaned to 3.35% nicotine and no WTA in my vape


The timeline recently occurred to me, and i thought back to trying to wean the same in 2014, I think after a Senate Enquiry into nicotine vaping. In 2014, I weaned to 12mg/ml or 1.2% nicotine, and abandoned the endeavour owing to rage, irritability, and intrusive thoughts


I have recently experimented with some Swedish Snus from my freezer, and dripping some WTA eliquid in my vape again. Each time, I have had blissful relief from the intrusive thoughts and rage


I started smoking aged 12. After growing up with parents smoking inside, and during pregnancy


I just figured this was worth a mention. As I said, I don’t have a scientific understanding of it, but have read studies and participate vaping forums


I know that Dr Jon is very against vaping, despite RANZCP official stance https://www.ranzcp.org/news-policy/...sition-statements/e-cigarettes-and-vaporisers


Dan
 

nadalama

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Well done, Dan. Excellent reference from the RANZCP. I hope your team will be open-minded.

I think I have stated several times here in the forum that nicotine takes the place of MD-prescribed, low-dose Adderall for me, as a treatment for moderate attention deficit disorder. I am totally convinced that nicotine has therapeutic value, based on my own personal experience. I will continue to use nicotine as long as I can get it, at my current level of 6mg/ml, for as long as I am required to use my brain to make a living in order to keep the bills paid around here.

Best of luck to you; I really hope they will listen.
 
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DogMan

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I don't know what response I want

I think just guiding planning to factor in structural brain changes smoking so young, and new inability to access "treatment" in liquid form
 

nadalama

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I don't know what response I want

I think just guiding planning to factor in structural brain changes smoking so young, and new inability to access "treatment" in liquid form

At the very least, what you've told them in your letter is that there are chemicals that provide you with some relief. Even if they cannot see their way to those exact substances, perhaps they can put their brain cells to work to identify whether there are compounds that affect the brain in a similar way, that are more easily obtained and more widely accepted as treatment for your dx. I'm probably stating the obvious; if so, please pardon.
 

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