Credit Card Companies are now trying to regulate us!

[VintageVapeJuice]

Not sure where to put this so I will try it here.

So I have been talking about this for days with some colleagues and going back and forth on CASAA and NotBlowingSmoke and it seems that credit card companies are now going to try to regulate the vape industry. Supposedly starting the 1st of the new year ANY vendor who sells ANY vape product will now have to pay a $500 registration fee to each Credit card company and on top of that hire an attorney to go over your website and information and make sure you are in compliance and then you will now HAVE to have 3d party age verification and a signature will be required on all deliveries and you must be 21 to sign.

Now I didn't believe this at first but having spoke to several people in the industry who have spoken to merchant bankers / credit card processors and the information they were giving seems to confirm everything. I am going to call my merchant provider and see what they say. This could be bad for everyone!

 

[JuicyLucy]

I know a few vendors had trouble with their credit card processors dumping them right after 8/8

This would not surprise me a bit unfortunately

 

[5150sick]

The whole FDA thing being the "deeming regulations" I think because you are now "deemed" a 'tobacco' distributor if you are just in sales and a 'tobacco' manufacturer if you make juice.

Actual tobacco distributors and manufacturers have always had this charge probably.

I guess what i'm trying to say is: The gold rush is over fellas.

Now let's just hope Trump hates Obama SO MUCH that he undoes all this bullshit before it gets too bad.
Trump is pro small business (and pro having a job, something the FDA could give a shit less about) so we can hope for the best?

 

[VintageVapeJuice]

The whole FDA thing being the "deeming regulations" I think because you are now "deemed" a 'tobacco' distributor if you are just in sales and a 'tobacco' manufacturer if you make juice.

Actual tobacco distributors and manufacturers have always had this charge probably.

I guess what i'm trying to say is: The gold rush is over fellas.

Now let's just hope Trump hates Obama SO MUCH that he undoes all this bullshit before it gets too bad.
Trump is pro small business (and pro having a job, something the FDA could give a shit less about) so we can hope for the best?

Here is what i said to someone on reddit who was actually for this. I am posting this so people can see the big picture. If you are under 21 you will no longer be able to order online. Signature delivery has to be 21 years or older. This is huge, Just as bad as the actual regulations when it comes to online sales.

Let me put it into perspective. Most of this industry is made up of mom and pop businesses, so yes $5,000 can make or break you! This means that a vendor (as myself) would have to pay $500 to the 4 major cc companies so thats $2,000. Then I will have to hire a attorney who specializes in tobacco to review my site and make sure that I am compliant with whatever BS stuff they want on there and God only knows how many thousands of dollars that would cost. Next I have to set up signature delivery and thats an extra $7 ish per delivery (bye bye free delivery). So in the end it will put small business out business and those that can stay open will have to pass the buck onto the consumer.

This is just another way to get all the small people (the ones who make up this industry) out and only leave the big boys left. The ones wall street and big tobacco want to stay. So if anyone sees no issue with this then you are blind and are missing the big picture!

 

[5150sick]

First, why not join Sfata or the VTA and use their attorneys and expertise?
Second, Fuck any CC besides Visa and Mastercard = so that's $1000
Third, the 21 thing is ONLY true in states that require buyers to be 21 (what's that like 5 states?) if you were a B&M in an 18 or older state you wouldn't send someone away who was only 19 would you?

I never said it was a good thing but what I meant is the barrier is a little higher than just being some dipshit that can play "mixologist" in his garage and come up with 6 or 7 barely vapeable flavors, buy a few hundred labels and a few hundred dollars worth of flavorings, nic, and VG to have a "juice line"

So maybe that part IS a good thing because the guy I just mentioned above could give a fuck less about cleanliness and will have more of a chance at pulling bullshit IP theft, kiddy cartoon labels, and be a get in, get money, get out fly by nighter.

The less of them the better.

 

[5150sick]

Also, anyone who showed up after 8/8 should have some sort of barrier anyway because they really aren't supposed to be putting out new product and juice to start with even though they have been conducting business as usual ever since and are basically telling the FDA to eat a dick.

This is going to massively hurt the vendors who are actually following the rules.

 

[VintageVapeJuice]

First, why not join Sfata or the VTA and use their attorneys and expertise?
Second, Fuck any CC besides Visa and Mastercard = so that's $1000
Third, the 21 thing is ONLY true in states that require buyers to be 21 (what's that like 5 states?) if you were a B&M in an 18 or older state you wouldn't send someone away who was only 19 would you?

I never said it was a good thing but what I meant is the barrier is a little higher than just being some dipshit that can play "mixologist" in his garage and come up with 6 or 7 barely vapeable flavors, buy a few hundred labels and a few hundred dollars worth of flavorings, nic, and VG to have a "juice line"

So maybe that part IS a good thing because the guy I just mentioned above could give a fuck less about cleanliness and will have more of a chance at pulling bullshit IP theft, kiddy cartoon labels, and be a get in, get money, get out fly by nighter.

The less of them the better.

I wasn't saying that you agreed with it by any means so sorry if you took it that way. I was saying that someone else was all for it and I wanted to post the bigger picture for everyone.

Using their attorneys won't help. you have to have a attorney put together a package and sign it saying that you are compliant.

Unfortunately you have to take all the credit cards as one package and every cc company has to follow the rules set by another so it can't be avoided.

The 21 year old thing is not an option either. You HAVE to be 21 or older to sign for packages because USPS does't offer an 18 or older signature.

This is going to crush online companies! right now people don't understand what's going on and how big this really is.

 

[AndriaD]

I frankly just can't understand those who didn't stockpile before 8/8. I've got 30 yrs worth of nicotine, so at this point, all I have to order now and then are some flavors -- which are food flavors anyway, so they're not involved in all this bullshit.

It would be nice if Trump did something useful about all this, but c'mon... his veep is the guy who killed vaping in Indiana.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

Also, anyone who showed up after 8/8 should have some sort of barrier anyway because they really aren't supposed to be putting out new product and juice to start with even though they have been conducting business as usual ever since and are basically telling the FDA to eat a dick.

This is going to massively hurt the vendors who are actually following the rules.

Anyone who tells the FDA to eat a dick, or better yet, a whole bag of dicks, is OK in my book.

Vendors who are "following the rules" are all going to be DONE in less than two years anyway.

 

[Rossum]

I frankly just can't understand those who didn't stockpile before 8/8. I've got 30 yrs worth of nicotine, so at this point, all I have to order now and then are some flavors -- which are food flavors anyway, so they're not involved in all this bullshit.

Fact is, most vapers haven't stocked up, nor will they. It's gonna be interesting to see how many of them go back to smoking, vs. how many go will go to the "informal" markets, vs. how many will settle for the few FDA-approved vapor products that might be available in C-Stores. No matter which they choose, they will end up spending a LOT more in the long run than those of us who've stockpiled.

 

[Artemis]

I didn't stock up. However, I couldn't work most of the year due to illness. I plan on buying a ton of stuff now since I have a job now. I do have enough nicotine to last about 20-30 years or so. Worst case scenario: I'll make a alternative product such as nicotine gum, candy or mouth spray before going back to cigs.

 

[UncleRJ]

What about shifting over to PayPal?

 

[freemind]

What about shifting over to PayPal?

I don't think you can rightfully sell juice/nicotine and collect payment with paypal.

I thinks it's against their TOS.

 

[AndriaD]

I don't think you can rightfully sell juice/nicotine and collect payment with paypal.

I thinks it's against their TOS.

And I think that's largely to do with a) federal gov't and banking regs, and b) credit card co's. They can't remain the leading payment "clearing house" online by not following the rules that the financial overlords set.

Andria

 

[freemind]

And I think that's largely to do with a) federal gov't and banking regs, and b) credit card co's. They can't remain the leading payment "clearing house" online by not following the rules that the financial overlords set.

Andria

I think in paypal's case, it was a company policy, before the regs.

Same as some CC companies would not allow gun purchases, with their cards. BoA was one of those.

 

[Huckleberried]

I've seen vape vendors start taking paypal, then within SIX hours, they couldn't anymore. Ain't happenin'. Paypal don't like us, either.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

Also the HUGE tax increase on vaping hardware and ejuices. I see your point @VintageVapeJuice on having to pass most of the cost to the consumer. That will have a major impact on sales volume to the point most consumers will not be able to afford the most basic RDA or tank. One would have to take out a mortgage to buy a mod. I feel terrible for you B&Ms and mid sized vendors. As for CCs and PayPal hitting vendors, I suppose there's no way of getting around it. Obtaining a new business license under a bogus name for 'different' type of merchandise would wind you up in jail or pay a fine in the millions.

As a consumer, I really overdid it in stockpiling. As most of you, I have gallons of nic in two freezers. I still need to buy more VG. I ordered 16 gallons of PG before I knew just the basics of DIY. I need to unload to it offset the purchase of more VG. The only way to skate the tax and vendor fees would be to stockpile as much vape equipment, DIY and pre-made juices before 12/31. Buying and selling between consumers will be the only affordable way to obtain anything. In typing that right now I just realized that my decision to finally stop buying stuff will need to be reversed. I recently canceled and/or returned about $2,000 in hardware. PayPal will be our only avenue for payment.

President Trump will have/is having more on his plate to deal with during his first 6-9 months in office. I believe eventually he will catch wind of what the FDA has done and put a stop to it. Since the FDA has put a hold on their regulation regarding research findings, which I hope gives them a rude awakening in finding out just how safe vaping is, despite Big Tobacco (if that's at all possible), our only hope is that he steps in firmly on the matter - quickly. Hell, there are members of Congress and the House who vape. There's a video compilation out there showing them actually vaping. One Congressman even vaped in the hall immediately after a session was over - with others watching.

All in all, we are all, merchants and consumers still f'in screwed. Let's hope Trump can deal with this sooner than later. Consumer advocacy is sure to bring this to his attention - not to mention all of the lawsuits.

I know I'm not even scratching the skin here as I am speaking mostly as a consumer.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

I've seen vape vendors start taking paypal, then withing SIX hours, they couldn't anymore. Ain't happenin'. Paypal don't like us, either.

I hope PayPal doesn't have us flagged for buying from vaping vendors and nail us for user to user payments. We would have to send money by the friends and family way vs. goods and services. I've already noticed China and The Netherlands are listing exactly what is in the parcel(s).

 

[freemind]

I hope PayPal doesn't have us flagged for buying from vaping vendors and nail us for user to user payments. We would have to send money by the friends and family way vs. goods and services. I've already noticed China and The Netherlands are listing exactly what is in the parcel(s).

My last orders to arrive (two weeks ago) did NOT list the actual contents. Listed as "gift" and Electronics.

Maybe it's because of the sheer dollar amount you are ordering Trixy. Maybe they think you are a vendor.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

Well, because of the over zealous shopping, I'm listed as vendor in VU's eyes even though I'm not.

As for vendors, I'll order 3-5 of some things that are a steal on sale. I don't think that would deem me a vendor. I'm still stockpiling. I pay both with my Visa and PayPal. It's just something I've noticed with China merchandise. It doesn't happen all the time. I'm curious to see what the customs form shows on my next few orders. You may have a point regarding frequency, though.

 

[Whiskey]

Well, because of the over zealous shopping, I'm listed as vendor in VU's eyes even though I'm not.

As for vendors, I'll order 3-5 of some things that are a steal on sale. I don't think that would deem me a vendor. I'm still stockpiling. I pay both with my Visa and PayPal. It's just something I've noticed with China merchandise. It doesn't happen all the time. I'm curious to see what the customs form shows on my next few orders. You may have a point regarding frequency, though.

LOL...You are selling on Ebay and were selling unopened new multiples here, That makes you a vendor by our forum rules

 

[Ms. Trixy]

I haven't sold on eBay in nearly a year...maybe more than a year, Whiskey. I'm still not selling anything there now!
You and Smokie checked. You can check again.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

That's why I'm so upset about this vendor bs.

 

[Whiskey]

That's why I'm so upset about this vendor bs.

Take it up in pm with Smokie instead of crying about it in another members thread.

 

[freemind]

Well, because of the over zealous shopping, I'm listed as vendor in VU's eyes even though I'm not.

As for vendors, I'll order 3-5 of some things that are a steal on sale. I don't think that would deem me a vendor. I'm still stockpiling. I pay both with my Visa and PayPal. It's just something I've noticed with China merchandise. It doesn't happen all the time. I'm curious to see what the customs form shows on my next few orders. You may have a point regarding frequency, though.

If you are keeping all that stuff you are ordering, that has to be a HUGE pile of shit you have amassed by now.

I have ordered quite a bit over three years, and it's enough to fill one of my cupboards and a shelf or two in the pantry. It more than sufficient to carry me the rest of my life, as far as mods and atomizers go.

I think where you are running into the vendor thing is on two fronts.
1 You order so MUCH stuff. Multiples of the same thing. 4-5-6 of something.
2 You end up unloading some/all of it. And I'm sure there is something there as a mark up.

The for sale thing here, is really designed for people to get rid of their stuff they have used, and no longer want. Not really designed for selling off brand new stuff you got a deal on.

I see where you are coming from, but you are very unusual in the respect of how much stuff you are buying. No one here besides you, that I am aware of, is buying that much vape shit for personal use/stock for the future.

I've got some stuff I have banked for the future, for selling to people who were not smart enough to keep something socked away. But all that will be sold face to face, black market style.

 

[Whiskey]

Amen

 

[Ms. Trixy]

LOL. So you see where I'm coming from. Just as you have new, unopened items for those who haven't stockpiled I do also - black market style. I've toned it down quite a bit. I've been canceling orders and return items the last 2 weeks. Still, what I have is overwhelming me. In fact, I prefer just to sell off what I have and only keep what I need. The manic buying finally has me scared. Seriously. I'd like to break even is all. And, there is no rule in the trade forum that all items 'must' be used. I would love to sell my used items there as well as take-a-loss as punishment for my bad mental judgement items. It all started with the 8/8 deadline. We discussed this - I thought vaping would be dead then. But, due to certain disabilities, I obsessed on buying. I so fucking pissed at myself if you want to know the truth.

So, if you can see clear to allow me to do that at a casual pace (not selling 8 things at once), I would appreciate you helping me out. Otherwise I'll be forced to sell on eBay to make 95% of these piles go away. Please @Whiskey, give it some thought. Thanks.

So folks, you now know this hoarder's story. Hopefully these shackles will be removed and I can play in the sandbox with everyone else.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

Good for your freemind. However I did not ask for your advice. I was commenting on Whiskey's post.

So sorry for the hijack.

 

[5150sick]

I understand and I do the same thing sometimes.
I scooped up a killer deal on 5 mods off a guy on eBay who is a juice vendor and only buys mods when he sets up a booth at a show for sampling.

Two limitless lmc 200 watt mods
an eleaf ipower 80
an RX200 in all black
and a black sigelei 150w TC touch screen

all had brown LG batts (except the eleaf which has an internal lipo) and Crown tanks on them.

I sold everything except the two limitless mods which I kept and still made all my money back.
That was the plan I had set out to do when I bought the entire lot.
The mods were used.... for only one weekend

It would be very, very, very very very shitty if the FDA logged in and hit every 'unlisted vendor' (and listed vendor) on this site with a warning letter.

So I feel you on not wanting that title.

But then again I can see Joe now,
Telling the FDA to eat a bag of dicks when they come asking for personal info from anon screen names.
From a site that doesn't even have US servers.

 

[freemind]

Good for your freemind. However I did not ask for your advice. I was commenting on Whiskey's post.

So sorry for the hijack.

You don't have to ask for my advice. I give it freely, even when someone doesn't ask.

It's no big thing to get into a buying frenzy. I've done it with other things myself. I see your side of the coin. I hope you see theirs as well.

I will say this much, if your area is like mine people either buy from shops OR online. Not both really. Typically shops have a HUGE mark up on stuff. So if I sell local, I make my money back and then some. People think what a great deal they are getting, in comparison to a shop. Lots of vape groups on facebook, so maybe look into that, if you do social media.

 

[Whiskey]

Good for your freemind. However I did not ask for your advice. I was commenting on Whiskey's post.

So sorry for the hijack.

Glad you at least apologized to the OP which is a vendor as well, for making this thread become all about your displeasure of gaining an unlisted vendor badge. That still does not make it right that you came into this thread and made it all about you. Check your pms