Do you really ever need 30amps?

[VaperJay]

I mean unless you are going below .2ohms (Which should be pulling 18 amps according to all the info I've seen) is there a point to buying a 30a battery? Everybody recomends 30a for mechs and I don't see the point unless you are building extremely low. I personally like between 0.8-1.7ohms based on my personal experience.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm looking at getting my first mech (I'm not new to building coils though) and I want to make sure that if I go with a 20a to save a few bucks that I won't blow myself up.

I'm looking primarily at LG HE2 batteries as they seem to have a good reputation.

 

[Sully]

Never know when a short can happen. Rather safe than sorry imo. I've had bad shorts on 2 different Sony's that still work great months later, didn't vent. Sony's can pulse over 120A, so I feel safe. LG's only pulse safely to 35A(as far as i know). A friend recently had an Atlantis short out on a hybrid mod, fried his battery (mxjo 35A), melted the battery wrapper, totally ruined, wont charge.

If your building yourself and testing your builds and your confident in your atty and mech mod, you theoretically should be ok. Just be careful! Shorts are no joke but can be avoided with close attention to your setup. Don't trust pre-built import atty heads on a mech!

 

[Celtic Fog]

I agree with sully, better safe than sorry, when batteries are involved saving a dollar or two shouldn't be a priority.

 

[Sully]

http://www.lightningvapes.com/products/sony-18650-vtc4-3-8v-30a-2100mah-battery-flat-or-button

Try LV20 for 20% off and free shipping (get the 2 pack) ends up $7.90 a cell shipped. (LV15 for 15% if the 20% is disabled)

Are the LG's you were looking at cheaper?

 

[travanx]

So many people were going with mechs and low ohm coils so you have a lot of regurgitated stuff about you need 30amp batteries for a mech because battery safety, battery chemistry, ohms law and other blurted out things constantly.

Why would anyone be putting prebuilt coils on a mech mod?

 

[Sully]

Why would anyone be putting prebuilt coils on a mech mod?

Aspire Atlantis and Kanger Subtank. They are 0.5ohm heads(about 35 watts on mech). Like I said, I already know people who vented and/or destroyed batteries on these suckers. Not good for business. Build and test yourself or use a regulated protected mod.

 

[travanx]

Aspire Atlantis and Kanger Subtank. They are 0.5ohm heads(about 35 watts on mech). Like I said, I already know people who vented and/or destroyed batteries on these suckers. Not good for business. Build and test yourself or use a regulated protected mod.

I haven't been following those very closely. Are people putting those on Mech mods? I wouldn't put anything on a mech unless I was the one wrapping the coil.

 

[MKPM]

I haven't been following those very closely. Are people putting those on Mech mods? I wouldn't put anything on a mech unless I was the one wrapping the coil.

They are only OK on unregs.......they really need a bigger push....at LEAST 40w. A normal sub-ohm build in a mech with freshly charged batteries puts out 35w.

 

[Iamme]

So many people were going with mechs and low ohm coils so you have a lot of regurgitated stuff about you need 30amp batteries for a mech because battery safety, battery chemistry, ohms law and other blurted out things constantly.

Why would anyone be putting prebuilt coils on a mech mod?

You can buy prebuilt Clapton coils, center coils and all kinds of stuff now. I think people should learn to do ot themselves. Maybe I'm old school or just a prick, I don't know.

I'm willing to bet that many of these people are going to vape meets and saying check out this sick coil I built. While in their head saying this was worth the $6 for bragging rights.

 

[travanx]

You can buy prebuilt Clapton coils, center coils and all kinds of stuff now. I think people should learn to do ot themselves. Maybe I'm old school or just a prick, I don't know.

I'm willing to bet that many of these people are going to vape meets and saying check out this sick coil I built. While in their head saying this was worth the $6 for bragging rights.

I should have figured that would happen. I agree, building your own coil is so easy that why would you pay someone to do it? youtube is kind of amazing for help. I can't even believe that charging $10 for a coil is worth anyone's time unless you have slave labor or a robot making it.

 

[nightshard]

The thing is that nobody is making reliable 30A 18650s these days..
You have the VTCs but sony hasn't been making those for years now and were only sold in battery packs. So you have fake VTCs and cloned fake VTCs.
Everyone say "there are a lot of fakes out there but mine are authentic", but how do they know that? They don't they just hope so.
You also have Efest, Xtar and other 30A batteries that are in fact rebranded VTCs.
So the question should be whats better a genuine 20/25A battery or a fake 30A.

 

[MKPM]

The thing is that nobody is making reliable 30A 18650s these days..
You have the VTCs but sony hasn't been making those for years now and were only sold in battery packs. So you have fake VTCs and cloned fake VTCs.
Everyone say "there are a lot of fakes out there but mine are authentic", but how do they know that? They don't they just hope so.
You also have Efest, Xtar and other 30A batteries that are in fact rebranded VTCs.
So the question should be whats better a genuine 20/25A battery or a fake 30A.

I have rewrapped all of my VTC5 and 4 batteries ant the printing UNDER the green wrapping is consistent with Sony VTC series batteries. I assure you that my 20 VTC5 batteries are genuine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Rommel]

The thing is that nobody is making reliable 30A 18650s these days..
You have the VTCs but sony hasn't been making those for years now and were only sold in battery packs. So you have fake VTCs and cloned fake VTCs.
Everyone say "there are a lot of fakes out there but mine are authentic", but how do they know that? They don't they just hope so.
You also have Efest, Xtar and other 30A batteries that are in fact rebranded VTCs.
So the question should be whats better a genuine 20/25A battery or a fake 30A.

Where exactly are you getting this info that Sony hasn't been making the VTC's for years? Read it online?

 

[nightshard]

Sony customer service, after hearing it online.

 

[Woody_]

For regulated mods, I use a cell that meets or exceeds the device's input current spec.

 

[Setanta]

Quick correction to the OP.

A 0.2 ohm build will not draw a constant 18 amps. With a fully charged battery it will draw 21 amps. Remember, the rated voltage of a lithium battery is an average value over a charge cycle, not a fixed value. Fully charged a typical lithium cell will give 4.2 volts. Fully discharged it will be giving between 3.0 and 3.3 volts. This means that during a charge cycle you're getting between 21 amps and 15 amps into a 0.2 ohm coil.

Getting a lower spec battery can be a false economy even if it meets your needs. Using a battery constantly near its limits reduces its lifespan significantly. In a mech mod I'd tend towards using a battery at around 80% or less of its rated spec, so for a 20 amp battery I'd stay above 0.4 ohms. For a 30 amp, 0.2 ohm.

Setanta

 

[Rommel]

Quick correction to the OP.

A 0.2 ohm build will not draw a constant 18 amps. With a fully charged battery it will draw 21 amps. Remember, the rated voltage of a lithium battery is an average value over a charge cycle, not a fixed value. Fully charged a typical lithium cell will give 4.2 volts. Fully discharged it will be giving between 3.0 and 3.3 volts. This means that during a charge cycle you're getting between 21 amps and 15 amps into a 0.2 ohm coil.

Getting a lower spec battery can be a false economy even if it meets your needs. Using a battery constantly near its limits reduces its lifespan significantly. In a mech mod I'd tend towards using a battery at around 80% or less of its rated spec, so for a 20 amp battery I'd stay above 0.4 ohms. For a 30 amp, 0.2 ohm.

Setanta

After voltage drop you are pushing 18 amps max. In theory you are right, but in real life it's not that simple.

 

[madmonkey]

Calculating your amp draw of a load on a mech mod is like buying retread tires...it may work but it's only a matter of time before things blow apart.

Only the VTC 3/4 spec sheet listed them as 30 amp continuous batteries...the VTC 5's were showed only 20 in their spec sheet but showed an amp drain test of up to 40 amps continuously but the test battery got to be over 100 degrees C...little warm for my taste....Don't get me wrong, I own 5 of them and they are all real or they are all fake because they all look the same and look like the real one's in the pictures of the "how to spot a fake VTC5" article that got passed around....and I love all my sony batts... I have 3s,4s, and 5's. But I am a Samsung fanboy at heart. Love my 20/25 R's

Anyways....even if you're not building sub ohm builds when it comes to mech mods the only safety feature you have is the batteries capabilities. Better to have a battery with a 20-30 continuous amp draw that can handle low builds and has a better chance of surviving a short then just using a 10 amp battery that can't take the stress if something goes wrong. I've said it before and i'll say it again...I had a short occur from a post screw on an atty wiggling while I wicked a coil and didn't notice till my atty sparked and shorted....luckily I had a VTC in there that could handle the massive surge and all it did was drain the battery instead of vent it...didn't even get hot. The build wasn't even that low, it was a .6 dual coil.

Anyways...yes, safety first...safer batteries, safer chemistry, safer vaping....safe vaping is happy vaping.

 

[Rommel]

Calculating amp draw is wise and safe IMO. Even if in theory your build is drawing like 40 amps, in real life it's lower. I've noticed that people calculate with 4.2v as their standard, and no mech mod can deliver that. There is always some voltage drop that takes the numbers way down, especially under load. 0.08 would draw ~53 amps and result in over 220w on paper, but in real life that's not happening.

And yes, i've had a dead short. Chuff cap came loose in my pocket and caused a short, resulting in 2.2v left in battery, burn marks on my Plume Veil and chuff cap but no venting. Thankfully i had a VTC4 in place and not something like an Efest. That same battery is still in use and doing well, no issues. Capacity is down by ~180mAh but thats all. Sonys are simply amazing.

 

[madmonkey]

Calculating amp draw is wise and safe IMO. Even if in theory your build is drawing like 40 amps, in real life it's lower. I've noticed that people calculate with 4.2v as their standard, and no mech mod can deliver that. There is always some voltage drop that takes the numbers way down, especially under load. 0.08 would draw ~53 amps and result in over 220w on paper, but in real life that's not happening.

And yes, i've had a dead short. Chuff cap came loose in my pocket and caused a short, resulting in 2.2v left in battery, burn marks on my Plume Veil and chuff cap but no venting. Thankfully i had a VTC4 in place and not something like an Efest. That same battery is still in use and doing well, no issues. Capacity is down by ~180mAh but thats all. Sonys are simply amazing.

I do voltage drop calculations all the time too...but I am not going to tell someone to go with them as totally fine without a safety margin...I know the voltage drop of my batteries and mods and I still do my numbers at 4 volts first to be safe. That sucks about your atty. Thankfully you weren't hurt. I would just rather give advice on the side of caution....

Like my old brass HCigar Caravella...I know on average with a fresh VTC/Samsung I am not getting anymore than 3.7/3.8 volts out under .5/.6 load max...but I still run the high numbers...I know this is a high resistance but I also just built a .26 for a coworker and gave him some 20R's to go with it....is it going to pull all 22 amps on them? no...but still better safe than sorry

 

[Rommel]

Agreed. Just sharing some of my knowledge, hopefully someone learns something but yeah. You really do need the 30 amp continuos and 120A pulse if shit hits the fan.

 

[BigNasty]

I do voltage drop calculations all the time too...but I am not going to tell someone to go with them as totally fine without a safety margin...I know the voltage drop of my batteries and mods and I still do my numbers at 4 volts first to be safe. That sucks about your atty. Thankfully you weren't hurt. I would just rather give advice on the side of caution....

Like my old brass HCigar Caravella...I know on average with a fresh VTC/Samsung I am not getting anymore than 3.7/3.8 volts out under .5/.6 load max...but I still run the high numbers...I know this is a high resistance but I also just built a .26 for a coworker and gave him some 20R's to go with it....is it going to pull all 22 amps on them? no...but still better safe than sorry

More like if something goes fucky, better safe than kaboom.
But then again I have always wanted a robo hook for a hand.