ELR is run by incompetent "fixers".

[Supernoob]

TZ. Calling this clown out. A clown who likes to read his own words more than being correct. Making incorrect "corrections". And claiming he sees "numerous errors" in my list....when there is literally none. Doesn't like being corrected, won't even acknowledge it. I did the leg work to fix his "fix". He was then offended enough to make false claims.

Red Summer Watermelon is a different product with a different product code than Watermelon. Yet he STILL claims I should "fix" it. I literally listed all the information and the link to the site.

The only questionable items is Ethyl Maltol....which doesn't matter but I still chose the right one. And FA Meringue which is just oddly named, but there is no other name. If there's anything wrong I'm happy to fix it, as I did with Super Sweet. But don't attribute nonsense to me.

If dealing with ELR is like this all the time....then they can fuck off. And TZ is an incompetent FOOL with no business as a "fixer".

 

[Just Frank]

Just wait til you see how All The Flavors is ran. I have zero trouble with ELR. What's going on now? You're imputing your flavors and then what?

 

[Supernoob]

Just wait til you see how All The Flavors is ran. I have zero trouble with ELR. What's going on now? You're imputing your flavors and then what?

He was wrong. I proved it to him with links and product codes. He didn't acknowledge he was wrong. Then tells me I'm not correcting the flavors and adding to the problem. And that I have more errors. So I spent the time and found ZERO errors except for the questionable items above with no good choices.

He's an incompetent. He was offended that he was wrong. He was offended that I pointed it out. Now he wants to pretend there is more wrong when there isn't. He wants to be important. I've seen this before. He wants to be the bigshot that goes around looking like he's working hard and fixing shit. But he's actually causing problems by telling others to make wrong changes. This is why the database is fucked up. Because of incompetents like him.

Incompetent people exist. I acknowledge that. I do not accept when a fool doesn't acknowledge his own mistakes. And I don't accept irrational responses and non-responses to the initial point.

It can all be read here I think.

Check cookies

e-liquid-recipes.com

They can fuck off or ban me. I don't care. I have bigger life problems.

 

[Just Frank]

In your link, two of the three are e-liquids. The other is the flavoring Flavourart has some weird names for flavors sometimes. As far as I know, they only have one watermelon flavor. I have no idea why "Red Summer" is attached to it. Maybe that's what it was originally called in Italy and for North America they just call it watermelon.

There's always been duplicate flavors in their system. I've always picked the one that's in most recipes. I think there's a little number next to it. I've bought flavors that weren't even registered by anyone at ELR. Strange names for flavors are gonna happen though. Then there's flavor stores re naming flavors to whatever they want. I don't think it's any reason to get worked up about it but that's just me.

 

[~Don~]

That’s why I do all my recipes private… for I am one of those idiots who doesn’t input the corrrect names (see what I did there )

I’ll have let’s say…

Lime - there are probably 20+ limes, but I only have one so I’m not at all worried if I input the wrong one.

Same with raspberry, or raspberry sweet, there are so many of each, but I only have one of each of those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ajvapes]

The problem is over the years flavors have been duplicated under different names, this has resulted in a mess when publishing recipes. If you do a search for FA watermelon you will see at least 6 entries, Watermelon (Red Summer) has 20,315 recipes attached to it. Watermelon Fa has 220....If you are checking "what can I make" it will ignore 20,000 recipes, and will tell you you are missing flavors when looking at a recipe calling for red summer. The best practice is to pick the listing with the highest number next to it....
I don't know if TZ is the person who has been given others problems but he wasn't being nasty. Some times you can be technically right and still be wrong..

 

[Supernoob]

The problem is over the years flavors have been duplicated under different names, this has resulted in a mess when publishing recipes. If you do a search for FA watermelon you will see at least 6 entries, Watermelon (Red Summer) has 20,315 recipes attached to it. Watermelon Fa has 220....If you are checking "what can I make" it will ignore 20,000 recipes, and will tell you you are missing flavors when looking at a recipe calling for red summer. The best practice is to pick the listing with the highest number next to it....
I don't know if TZ is the person who has been given others problems but he wasn't being nasty. Some times you can be technically right and still be wrong..

My problem is he thinks it's all covered in those little directions. And he's cocky and dismissive about any response that isn't in line with his "lots of experience". The fact that he TOTALLY dismissed Red Watermelon is LITERALLY a different product....well, it all went downhill from there.

He needs to explain there is a database SEARCH error, not JUST a naming convention error. The directions don't cover this. For instance.....sugar cookie....intuition says, if I just type sugar cookie then they will all come up. No so. THIS needs to be in the directions. They blame it all on the user by default. This is the easy, intellectually lazy way out. That is incompetence masquerading as knowledge. I cannot stand that. Won't deal with it diplomatically. He's an incompetent and should be removed from the project, as he is causing more problems rather than fixing things.

 

[Just Frank]

Jeez, take it easy . Like AJ said, add the one with the biggest number to your stash.

I don't know what's going on with your searches but I can search: Sugar Cookie just fine.

• Go to the Resources drop down menu and select: Flavor List.
• Input your key words: Sugar Cookie
• Next click on Recipes

It'll organize by the Sugar Cookie that's in most recipes. You probably don't want to hear any of this but here's a photo-

Like I said before, Flavourart Watermelon is sometimes called Red Summer. It's the same thing.

 

[Supernoob]

Jeez, take it easy . Like AJ said, add the one with the biggest number to your stash.

I don't know what's going on with your searches but I can search: Sugar Cookie just fine.

• Go to the Resources drop down menu and select: Flavor List.
• Input your key words: Sugar Cookie
• Next click on Recipes

It'll organize by the Sugar Cookie that's in most recipes. You probably don't want to hear any of this but here's a photo-

Like I said before, Flavourart Watermelon is sometimes called Red Summer. It's the same thing.

The search doesn't come up that way from the recipe list.
Flavourart has a different product code for Watermelon and Red Summer Watermelon. I've said this over and over now.

 

[Supernoob]

That’s why I do all my recipes private… for I am one of those idiots who doesn’t input the corrrect names (see what I did there )

I’ll have let’s say…

Lime - there are probably 20+ limes, but I only have one so I’m not at all worried if I input the wrong one.

Same with raspberry, or raspberry sweet, there are so many of each, but I only have one of each of those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to do the same. I no longer want to participate with them. I'm waiting for his latest response, then I'm telling them to fuck off.

This might seem like an over-reaction to some, but this isn't a simple disagreement. Like if you and I were discussing a subject here and disagreeing, it has no bearing on others. This is about a database that many thousands of people across the world use. It's fucked up, and they want to blame the users for this. That mess could be cleaned up quickly with proper directions and some competent administrators.

I've been a computer tech for 20 years. Specialize in technical writing. Have written manuals and directions for other technicians, for hedge fund companies, that are still in use 10 years later. So someone telling me I don't follow the "directions" is highly offensive.

 

[Just Frank]

The search doesn't come up that way from the recipe list.
Flavourart has a different product code for Watermelon and Red Summer Watermelon. I've said this over and over now.

I'm not trying to agitate you or anything but why are you bringing up product codes? When I search for watermelon on Flavourart's site, I see two E-Liquids, and only one flavor. Watermelon and Red Summer by FA are one in the same.

 

[~Don~]

I'm going to do the same. I no longer want to participate with them. I'm waiting for his latest response, then I'm telling them to fuck off.

This might seem like an over-reaction to some, but this isn't a simple disagreement. Like if you and I were discussing a subject here and disagreeing, it has no bearing on others. This is about a database that many thousands of people across the world use. It's fucked up, and they want to blame the users for this. That mess could be cleaned up quickly with proper directions and some competent administrators.

I've been a computer tech for 20 years. Specialize in technical writing. Have written manuals and directions for other technicians, for hedge fund companies, that are still in use 10 years later. So someone telling me I don't follow the "directions" is highly offensive.

I understand.

I also can see faults and where optimization and clearer direction can make things better overall… Mechanical Engineering -HVAC

I’ve just simplified my flavors and recipes… heck even my own personal recipes are from those that mix and not of my creation… which is a grand total of 7.

I mix maybe once every 3 months… same 2 juices basically…

I learned long ago that my palate isn’t keen enough to know the differences of the 100’s of different creams, or 100’s of different strawberries… so I just type in Strawberry and whatever closest matches on the pop up selection is the winner, if it doesn’t, no worries, still named strawberry and I might have 2… which they taste exactly the same
To me lol

Anyway, I’d just walk away from the responses, I think it was Mark Twain who said, “ don’t argue with stupid people, they will drag you down and beat you with experience” or something of that nature

Wooosaah!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Supernoob]

I'm not trying to agitate you or anything but why are you bringing up product codes? When I search for watermelon on Flavourart's site, I see two E-Liquids, and only one flavor. Watermelon and Red Summer by FA are one in the same.

I'm not agitated by you. This is the proper place for this debate. Why do I bring up product codes? Why would I not? How is this wrong? Unless Flavourart tells us otherwise, they are different products.

Home :: Online Store :: Flavors 10ml :: Fruity Flavours :: Watermelon flavor

Fresh and juicy the taste of summer alway available Suggested percentage 2-3%

flavourart.com

Home :: Online Store :: E-liquids 10ml :: E-liquids no nicotine :: RED SUMMER | e-liquid 10ml no nicotine

Relive your summer in every single drop! Mouth-watering juicy clear and fresh Taste of Watermelon

flavourart.com

These products could very well be the same thing. Just a renaming. But that doesn't even matter. If it's not what the user will know then they are different products with different product codes. Not accounting for that at the database level, then telling the user it's his fault is EXACTLY why the database is fked up. And that's IF they are in fact the same product.

 

[Supernoob]

I've emailed Flavourart asking them if they are the same. And if they are, then there should be a way the user would know. Just picking the one with the most recipes is WRONG directions and GUARANTEES the problem will continue to exist. THAT is why the admins are incompetent.

 

[Just Frank]

I'm not agitated by you. This is the proper place for this debate. Why do I bring up product codes? Why would I not? How is this wrong? Unless Flavourart tells us otherwise, they are different products.

Home :: Online Store :: Flavors 10ml :: Fruity Flavours :: Watermelon flavor

Fresh and juicy the taste of summer alway available Suggested percentage 2-3%

flavourart.com

Home :: Online Store :: E-liquids 10ml :: E-liquids no nicotine :: RED SUMMER | e-liquid 10ml no nicotine

Relive your summer in every single drop! Mouth-watering juicy clear and fresh Taste of Watermelon

flavourart.com

One of them is concentrated flavoring and the other is a mixed e-liquid (with the flavoring in it). They really should keep their names consistent. Dropping the whole "Red Summer" name would be a positive thing. They have other flavors too that have aliases. Their Strawberry flavor is called "Red Touch" among others. I never got why they did that.

 

[Supernoob]

One of them is concentrated flavoring and the other is a mixed e-liquid (with the flavoring in it). They really should keep their names consistent. Dropping the whole "Red Summer" name would be a positive thing. They have other flavors too that have aliases. Their Strawberry flavor is called "Red Touch" among others. I never got why they did that.

So you agree they are different then? Am I reading you correctly?

Would you list your recipe with Red Summer if it was the other one? Because that's what he told me to do. Do you think it should be a different listing in ELR?

 

[Just Frank]

So you agree they are different then? Am I reading you correctly?

Would you list your recipe with Red Summer if it was the other one? Because that's what he told me to do. Do you think it should be a different listing in ELR?

Yeah they're different products. Ones a finished e-liquid. The other is the concentrated watermelon flavor. The E-liquid has some of the same watermelon flavor in it, but it's diluted with VG & PG (I'm assuming). It's just like a DIY single flavor, mix tester. It's for people who don't want to mix it themselves in their own bottle. It's a convenience basically.

 

[Supernoob]

Yeah they're different products. Ones a finished e-liquid. The other is the concentrated watermelon flavor. The E-liquid has some of the same watermelon flavor in it, but it's diluted with VG & PG (I'm assuming). It's just like a DIY single flavor, mix tester. It's for people who don't want to mix it themselves in their own bottle. It's a convenience basically.

Thank you. It's a good resource. I hate to trash on it, but reality is what it is.

 

[SessionDrummer]

Red Summer Watermelon is a different product with a different product code than Watermelon. Yet he STILL claims I should "fix" it. I literally listed all the information and the link to the site.

In your link, two of the three are e-liquids.

Yeah they're different products. Ones a finished e-liquid. The other is the concentrated watermelon flavor.

@Supernoob, @Just Frank is correct, Watermelon, and Strawberry are the Flavors. Red Touch, and Red Summer are actual E-Liquids.

 

[Supernoob]

@Supernoob, @Just Frank is correct, Watermelon, and Strawberry are the Flavors. Red Touch, and Red Summer are actual E-Liquids.View attachment 187889

View attachment 187890

Thanks for looking at it guys. I knew it was wrong. My argument was the "fixer" kept telling me I was doing wrong even though I proved it to him in the first interaction. I'll have to take it private if he keeps arguing irrationally.

 

[SessionDrummer]

The problem is over the years flavors have been duplicated under different names, this has resulted in a mess when publishing recipes.

That’s why I do all my recipes private… for I am one of those idiots who doesn’t input the corrrect names (see what I did there

)

The Best AND Worst thing about the ELR database, is it is OPEN.

Any/Every entry goes in the database. Private recipes, public, doesn't matter. Most people don't know that, and assume just plunking down whatever flavors are close enough in their private recipes, won't impact the database, then they'll clean them up before moving them to public.

Lars made the decision a long time ago to keep the database open, and cleaning it up, then became an almost daily, ongoing requirement, because of that.

My argument was the "fixer" kept telling me I was doing wrong even though I proved it to him in the first interaction.

@Supernoob without scraping your recipes, I"m not sure what "fixes" the "fixer" was dropping on you. I know that with my above statements on Lars's (the owner of ELR) decision to keep the database open, Tortured Zen has been completely overwhelmed with trying to fix, and maintain the database. Having been on ELR for years, I wouldn't want that job. I borked up TONS of flavors when I started there, and just like many other people, I had NO idea what I was doing was wrong, NOR did I have any clue it was corrupting the very same database.

We've brought this up to Lars more than once, and the decision was made to keep ELR open. If we could lock it down, remove incorrect flavors, this entire issue would simply, go away.

 

[VapeOn1960]

I'm not defending or disrespecting ELR... truth is, I don't use ELR or ATF to keep track of any of my stuff (flavors or recipes) Just never got into it.
Anyway, I have noticed (and these issues are frequently mentioned on the Noted videos) that flavor names are confusing. Names change (and it may also depend on if it's for US or Europe) versions change (like INW does but doesn't mention that so you have no way of knowing) It's all very confusing and frustrating but I wouldn't blame ELR. Also, what was mentioned above by @SessionDrummer is what I'm trying to say (but didn't know all the details about this... just never had to deal with it) Blame the flavor companies, blame the people that mess up the data with mis-info, but try to give ELR a break. I doubt it's even possible to make this all work perfectly. By the way... thank you for bringing this up because I had no clue... at least now I'm aware about issues like this (I mostly just search for info on ELR and ATF)

 

[Supernoob]

@Supernoob without scraping your recipes, I"m not sure what "fixes" the "fixer" was dropping on you. I know that with my above statements on Lars's (the owner of ELR) decision to keep the database open, Tortured Zen has been completely overwhelmed with trying to fix, and maintain the database. Having been on ELR for years, I wouldn't want that job. I borked up TONS of flavors when I started there, and just like many other people, I had NO idea what I was doing was wrong, NOR did I have any clue it was corrupting the very same database.

We've brought this up to Lars more than once, and the decision was made to keep ELR open. If we could lock it down, remove incorrect flavors, this entire issue would simply, go away.

It wasn't about my recipes, it was about him not acknowledging he was wrong. And ignoring the proof I brought him, pretending it didn't exist, and then insisting that I was the one doing wrong.

But that's just me and him stuff, the bottom line is he's contributing to the errors. Working hard in itself doesn't mean doing a good job.

 

[Supernoob]

Contacted Flavourart. Here is their response:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gentile Supernoob Smith,

In merito alla tua richiesta {Spam?} Watermelon question.

Hello

Different codes mean different products.
In this case FA0871 is watermelon ready to vape and FA0080 is the pure flavor to be diluted before vaping

Cordiali saluti/Best regards,

Massimiliano

FlavourArt

FlavourArt - The flavors tailors - Food & Electronic cigarette flavorings

THE flavor artists

www.flavourart.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELR is run by incompetent fixers that contribute to the problem. Case closed.

 

[nadalama]

Well, out of all of this I have learned (have I?) that my FA Strawberry Red Touch is standalone e-liquid? I have sure been using it as a flavoring, and for a couple of years now.

I knew FA made one-shots, like the line that the "Joker" flavor is in, but I didn't have a clue that they sold pre-mixed e-liquid. It's in a 10ml bottle, for Pete's sake, and cost the same as their regular flavorings. I'm gonna have to do some research to prove that to myself, because I'm not sure I buy it at the moment.

ETA: Quoted from BCF's website:

Red Touch (Strawberry). Concentrated flavoring from FlavourArt (FA).
This is concentrated flavoring and must be diluted before use!

end of quote

I'm not interested in joining in the fray either for or against ELR, I just want to know if what I've got is flavoring or e-liquid. I've had no problems with ELR's database - it is full of junk, most of which is obviously junk, and it's been a rare thing that I've ever had to add a flavor to it. Maybe a couple of the Nicotine River or LNW flavors that are a little obscure.

 

[Theboss]

 

[Supernoob]

Well, out of all of this I have learned (have I?) that my FA Strawberry Red Touch is standalone e-liquid? I have sure been using it as a flavoring, and for a couple of years now.

I knew FA made one-shots, like the line that the "Joker" flavor is in, but I didn't have a clue that they sold pre-mixed e-liquid. It's in a 10ml bottle, for Pete's sake, and cost the same as their regular flavorings. I'm gonna have to do some research to prove that to myself, because I'm not sure I buy it at the moment.

ETA: Quoted from BCF's website:

Red Touch (Strawberry). Concentrated flavoring from FlavourArt (FA).
This is concentrated flavoring and must be diluted before use!

end of quote

I wouldn't be shocked to find that the confusion is a language issue. Perhaps their "ready to vape" is more like a one-shot? But then...I'm doubting that because it also comes both with and without nic. 4.5mg only though. Confusing.

 

[ajvapes]

I'm out....

 

[Just Frank]

Well, out of all of this I have learned (have I?) that my FA Strawberry Red Touch is standalone e-liquid? I have sure been using it as a flavoring, and for a couple of years now.

I knew FA made one-shots, like the line that the "Joker" flavor is in, but I didn't have a clue that they sold pre-mixed e-liquid. It's in a 10ml bottle, for Pete's sake, and cost the same as their regular flavorings. I'm gonna have to do some research to prove that to myself, because I'm not sure I buy it at the moment.

ETA: Quoted from BCF's website:

Red Touch (Strawberry). Concentrated flavoring from FlavourArt (FA).
This is concentrated flavoring and must be diluted before use!

end of quote

I'm not interested in joining in the fray either for or against ELR, I just want to know if what I've got is flavoring or e-liquid. I've had no problems with ELR's database - it is full of junk, most of which is obviously junk, and it's been a rare thing that I've ever had to add a flavor to it. Maybe a couple of the Nicotine River or LNW flavors that are a little obscure.

If you bought it from a flavor store, it's a concentrated flavoring. The ones on FA's site are just SFT or single flavor testers that are ready to vape. They take whatever flavor, and add the VG/PG and nic so you don't have to. I'm guessing it's for people who are to lazy to mix it themselves, or just have no interest in DiY. Hangsen used to do the same, with mostly tobbaco's. You could get just the flavor, or they had it mixed and sold as e-liquid.

Flavourart's aliases serve no purpose. Some people call their Strawberry : Red Touch and others still call their Watermelon: Red Summer. Even flavor stores do it. My first bottle of FA Strawberry from BCF just said Red Touch.

 

[nadalama]

If you bought it from a flavor store, it's a concentrated flavoring. The ones on FA's site are just SFT or single flavor testers that are ready to vape. They take whatever flavor, and add the VG/PG and nic so you don't have to. I'm guessing it's for people who are to lazy to mix it themselves, or just have no interest in DiY. Hangsen used to do the same, with mostly tobbaco's. You could get just the flavor, or they had it mixed and sold as e-liquid.

Flavourart's aliases serve no purpose. Some people call their Strawberry : Red Touch and others still call their Watermelon: Red Summer. Even flavor stores do it. My first bottle of FA Strawberry from BCF just said Red Touch.

That makes perfect sense. Thank you!

 

[jambi]

So you agree they are different then? Am I reading you correctly?

Would you list your recipe with Red Summer if it was the other one? Because that's what he told me to do. Do you think it should be a different listing in ELR?

I understand your frustration, but I'd suggest calming down and cutting them just a little slack. Their flavor database has been screwed up for a long time, just rife with duplications and errors, and it's gotta be a monumental task trying to clean it up. There's literally thousands of flavors out there, and in the case of FA, I've seen various names on the same flavors, and different names on the same flavor depending on which market it's being sold in. At least they are trying, and hey, the site is free and the best out there, considering the alternatives (ATF).

 

[Sprkslfly]

This is about a database that many thousands of people across the world use. It's fucked up, and they want to blame the users for this. That mess could be cleaned up quickly with proper directions and some competent administrators.

Greetings to all.

I've thought long and hard about this, and yes I've read through the entire thread (basically, the instant it was brought to light at ELR).

I feel like a few things need to be clarified for the rest of the folks who read this (since by the tone, and responses from Supernoob so far, I question if I'll be able to help the user understand. Others have tried, but the offense taken seems to run deep.)

1. TZ is NOT a moderator. He has no ability to make changes to errant entries CREATED BY THE USERS.
He IS a member of ELR who has dedicated/donated his time and efforts to try and HELP PREVENT additional errors from being created, by attempting to help new users understand the goals of naming formats, etc.

2. It's already been pointed out (ty to those who have attempted to shed light on the situation, and obstacles faced) that the database is OPEN.
This means quality in = quality out.
It also means garbage in = garbage out.

As long as users can enter ANYTHING they please, it's *going to be* various shades of right and wrong.

3. TZ was not wrong.
What you still seem to be struggling with (among other things) the difference between a finished eliquid, and a flavor (be it a concentrate, extract, or one shot).

Personally, finished eliquid does not belong in the database at all. BUT, it's still within the realm of possibility to create a mix *using* a finished eliquid as a component of the mix. So yes. There are some eliquids in the database, and I've chosen to leave them (until I hear otherwise from Lars).

4. I am the sole person (other than Lars) who's been trying to clean up this giant Charlie-Foxtrot over the last three years (at least). It used to be Ken_O_Where and JoJo, and I was the third addition.
I have literally done thousands, if not tens of thousands of merges, fixes, and corrections. Over the last year, I have to admit, it hasn't been much. So the state of things is once again growing considerably more noticeable. But in years past, I've donated (no, I don't get paid) hundreds of hours per year in trying to keep things manageable.

5. *Part* of the reason I've dropped off this last year, is because of people like you who come in guns blazing, thinking they have all the answers, or know everything. The main part is because of real life though... (there are a great many who do appreciate the efforts, and try to understand, but there are a great many more who have no understanding of why things are the way they are. Most of which are because they don't even visit the forum side, or know it exists!)

6. The database is a living entity (as I like to call it). Because it's constantly changing.
These changes come from:
- errant entries
- flavor vendors using names other than what the manufacturer uses
- manufacturers changing their names and or labeling on a whim (or threatened legal action for instance)
- many other reasons

(cont'd)

 

[Supernoob]

Greetings to all.

I've thought long and hard about this, and yes I've read through the entire thread (basically, the instant it was brought to light at ELR).

I feel like a few things need to be clarified for the rest of the folks who read this (since by the tone, and responses from Supernoob so far, I question if I'll be able to help the user understand. Others have tried, but the offense taken seems to run deep.)

1. TZ is NOT a moderator. He has no ability to make changes to errant entries CREATED BY THE USERS.
He IS a member of ELR who has dedicated/donated his time and efforts to try and HELP PREVENT additional errors from being created, by attempting to help new users understand the goals of naming formats, etc.

2. It's already been pointed out (ty to those who have attempted to shed light on the situation, and obstacles faced) that the database is OPEN.
This means quality in = quality out.
It also means garbage in = garbage out.

As long as users can enter ANYTHING they please, it's *going to be* various shades of right and wrong.

3. TZ was not wrong.
What you still seem to be struggling with (among other things) the difference between a finished eliquid, and a flavor (be it a concentrate, extract, or one shot).

Personally, finished eliquid does not belong in the database at all. BUT, it's still within the realm of possibility to create a mix *using* a finished eliquid as a component of the mix. So yes. There are some eliquids in the database, and I've chosen to leave them (until I hear otherwise from Lars).

4. I am the sole person (other than Lars) who's been trying to clean up this giant Charlie-Foxtrot over the last three years (at least). It used to be Ken_O_Where and JoJo, and I was the third addition.
I have literally done thousands, if not tens of thousands of merges, fixes, and corrections. Over the last year, I have to admit, it hasn't been much. So the state of things is once again growing considerably more noticeable. But in years past, I've donated (no, I don't get paid) hundreds of hours per year in trying to keep things manageable.

5. *Part* of the reason I've dropped off this last year, is because of people like you who come in guns blazing, thinking they have all the answers, or know everything. The main part is because of real life though... (there are a great many who do appreciate the efforts, and try to understand, but there are a great many more who have no understanding of why things are the way they are. Most of which are because they don't even visit the forum side, or know it exists!)

6. The database is a living entity (as I like to call it). Because it's constantly changing.
These changes come from:
- errant entries
- flavor vendors using names other than what the manufacturer uses
- manufacturers changing their names and or labeling on a whim (or threatened legal action for instance)
- many other reasons

(cont'd)

He was telling me to use a product that is a different product than that which is in my recipe. You didn't address that fact. Yes I understand the products are different, that is in fact my point. I contacted the company, they confirmed it. I don't see how that's wrong for me to point out. If I did what TZ says then I would be listing the wrong product. What exactly am I not understanding?

Your post is overly long and doesn't really address anything at all that I've said, so I don't really expect a rational answer.

This here seems to be your major point about me:
"3. TZ was not wrong.
What you still seem to be struggling with (among other things) the difference between a finished eliquid, and a flavor (be it a concentrate, extract, or one shot).

Personally, finished eliquid does not belong in the database at all. BUT, it's still within the realm of possibility to create a mix *using* a finished eliquid as a component of the mix. So yes. There are some eliquids in the database, and I've chosen to leave them (until I hear otherwise from Lars)."

No, that is not the case. That is not the argument at all. So with that kind of miscommunication, then clearly people like YOU are the ones that come guns blazing and are the reason for continued confusion for people. You're literally missing the whole point. I think there is an ego problem going on. I have no problem being proven wrong....I'm a winner when I learn I'm wrong. But you did not show that here. You showed in fact that you have no clue what the argument was about.

 

[Sprkslfly]

He was telling me to use a product that is a different product than that which is in my recipe. You didn't address that fact. Yes I understand the products are different, that is in fact my point. I contacted the company, they confirmed it. I don't see how that's wrong for me to point out. If I did what TZ says then I would be listing the wrong product. What exactly am I not understanding?

Your post is overly long and doesn't really address anything at all that I've said, so I don't really expect a rational answer.

I did address that... But the forum is fighting the length of my post.

Anyways, here's the short version.
You're failing to understand that Red Touch and Strawberry are one and the same.
Product code doesn't enter into it.

Red Touch is what FA strawberry was called for years.

For years FA had no finished eliquid.

The fact that they've chosen to use an established product name for a completely new product THAT'S NOT A FLAVOR, has no bearing.

Personally, finished eliquids do not belong in the database, because it only serves to confuse people like you who don't want to know, or care about the history (reality) of why things are like they are.

 

[Supernoob]

I did address that... But the forum is fighting the length of my post.

Anyways, here's the short version.
You're failing to understand that Red Touch and Strawberry are one and the same.
Product code doesn't enter into it.

Red Touch is what FA strawberry was called for years.

For years FA had no finished eliquid.

The fact that they've chosen to use an established product name for a completely new product THAT'S NOT A FLAVOR, has no bearing.

Personally, finished eliquids do not belong in the database, because it only serves to confuse people like you who don't want to know, or care about the history (reality) of why things are like they are.

I'm probably way too guns blazing and unintelligent to use such a system. I have no problem using something else. Cheers.

 

[nadalama]

@Sprkslfly omg, it makes me feel sick that you felt you had to come here to defend ELR. I apologize for not speaking up more in your defense myself, because I've used your site ever since my very first mix and have found it to be reliable and a very valuable resource.

There is junk in the database, but like I said before, if you pay attention to what you're doing, you can figure out how to choose the right flavors for recipes. If a member's stash is kept up to date, ELR even shows in green (as one starts to type a flavor name) which flavors the member has entered in the stash, so it is easy to choose the right ones.

So many of the mixers here use ELR as their main recipe development and storage application, and we recommend it all the time to new folks who come in wanting to learn DIY. I think what we had here was perhaps a clash of a couple of strong personalities. I don't really know either party, but very much doubt that the situation called for such an escalation as we saw in this thread.

I also very much doubt that the negative views expressed here would sway any of us who are experienced into using a different application. Nor will it change the recommendations we make to new mixers. Of course I can speak only for myself, but knowing the long-timers here like I do, I doubt they would disagree with what I've said, and most especially if any of them have had experience as a volunteer moderator or admin on a large website.

@wildgypsy70 @88ArDeN88 @Howard Hughes @Just Frank @gopher_byrd @debinnv @Heartsdelight @SessionDrummer

 

[nadalama]

I did address that... But the forum is fighting the length of my post.

Anyways, here's the short version.
You're failing to understand that Red Touch and Strawberry are one and the same.
Product code doesn't enter into it.

Red Touch is what FA strawberry was called for years.

For years FA had no finished eliquid.

The fact that they've chosen to use an established product name for a completely new product THAT'S NOT A FLAVOR, has no bearing.

Personally, finished eliquids do not belong in the database, because it only serves to confuse people like you who don't want to know, or care about the history (reality) of why things are like they are.

I do confess to having added one e-liquid to the database, and the reason for it was as you stated - I was using it as a component in a mix.

I had 24mg Hangsen Menthol e-liquid from an e-liquid order that I screwed up. I decided to use it in a couple of recipes that were fruit + menthol, and because it was 24mg nic, I also used it as my source for nicotine in the recipe. I vape 6mg, and didn't want to waste the 100ml of Hangsen Menthol that had perfectly good nic in it.

The thing is, if someone else has Hangsen Menthol, whether it's e-liquid or flavoring, what they put in their stash is Hangsen Menthol, and it doesn't matter if it's different from mine. I know that mine is e-liquid and I have sense enough to know that if I run the "What Can I Make" utility, and Hangsen Menthol comes up as an ingredient in some other recipes that weren't developed by me, then it most likely is flavoring, not e-liquid. For Pete's f'n sake.

 

[wllmc]

I thought I should hop in and clear the air a bit, everyone is right depending on what year you are talking about and if you are buying from North America or the UK or Italy. Back in the day the flavors were named Red Touch and Red Summer and several others had funky names. Now it looks like they just call it Strawberry in Italy and the Ejuice Red Touch, I bet the US market drove that change. ELR goes as far back as us old timers do and when we loaded these up that is what the "official" names were. Here is a screen shot from way back machine, I think I set the year to 2015.

 

[nadalama]

I thought I should hop in and clear the air a bit, everyone is right depending on what year you are talking about and if you are buying from North America or the UK or Italy. Back in the day the flavors were named Red Touch and Red Summer and several others had funky names. Now it looks like they just call it Strawberry in Italy and the Ejuice Red Touch, I bet the US market drove that change. ELR goes as far back as us old timers do and when we loaded these up that is what the "official" names were. Here is a screen shot from way back machine, I think I set the year to 2015. View attachment 188486

I apologize for not tagging you and @Roundhouse in my previous post. Of all the people to miss! Jeez Louise.

 

[wildgypsy70]

@Sprkslfly omg, it makes me feel sick that you felt you had to come here to defend ELR. I apologize for not speaking up more in your defense myself, because I've used your site ever since my very first mix and have found it to be reliable and a very valuable resource.

There is junk in the database, but like I said before, if you pay attention to what you're doing, you can figure out how to choose the right flavors for recipes. If a member's stash is kept up to date, ELR even shows in green (as one starts to type a flavor name) which flavors the member has entered in the stash, so it is easy to choose the right ones.

So many of the mixers here use ELR as their main recipe development and storage application, and we recommend it all the time to new folks who come in wanting to learn DIY. I think what we had here was perhaps a clash of a couple of strong personalities. I don't really know either party, but very much doubt that the situation called for such an escalation as we saw in this thread.

I also very much doubt that the negative views expressed here would sway any of us who are experienced into using a different application. Nor will it change the recommendations we make to new mixers. Of course I can speak only for myself, but knowing the long-timers here like I do, I doubt they would disagree with what I've said, and most especially if any of them have had experience as a volunteer moderator or admin on a large website.

@wildgypsy70 @88ArDeN88 @Howard Hughes @Just Frank @gopher_byrd @debinnv @Heartsdelight @SessionDrummer

Wholeheartedly agree. ELR has the largest database of flavors so that’s where I send new mixers. It’s user friendly and has vast amounts of knowledge spanning years. Yes, there is junk in the database. Yes, there are shit mixes. But I’m still gonna recommend ELR every time. I do have an ATF account and check there regularly, but all of my recipe development and current, relatively accurate, ridiculously huge stash resides at ELR.

Thank you, @Sprkslfly for coming in and clearing things up. I had no idea(because apparently I am THAT clueless) that an admin of ELR was a member here. Good to know ya.

 

[Just Frank]

if you pay attention to what you're doing, you can figure out how to choose the right flavors for recipes.

Bingo. If anyone is new at mixing and flavors, all you have to do is ask somebody. There's plenty of helpful people with lots of knowledge.