So I notice the forum has a new sponsor: Flavorah, a new supplier of DIY concentrates. Who's gonna take one for the team and order and review some of their products? I vote HIC since his extortion is well documented in another recent thread.
substitutions are allowed based on the reddit thread. Vanilla custard is supposed to be the best there is.Well, I gave it a shot using the reddit+ promo. 14 bottles for $35 is not a bad deal. Went for the savory and the fruit packs, but asked for 2 substitutions in the comments to get rid of the spearmint and the Crème de Menthe (not a mint fan). Not sure if substitutions are possible, but figured I'd give it a shot.
Will report back on findings once they get here.
I ordered 1, Bluberry muffin, last Friday.
Didn't get any receipt, tacking number, NOTHING.
I'll wait and see if the package comes in.
I paid using PayPal and got my receipt and tracking info on my PP account. Assuming you used PP as well, you may want to check your PP account for the receipt and tracking. My order shows "McKnight Standard LLC" as the vendor.
Yeah... it's pretty unclear to me too. Reading on reddit I got the impression they were basically a smallish start-up compounder that bought the components for their flavorings from a big company (Mother Murphy's is what someone said). I had thought, based on whatever I read on reddit plus the presentation of their site (not super slick or corporate, not a whole lot of content), that they were a compounder like www.mamajsjuice.com or TFA--but somewhere in the middle between the two in terms of size of operation. That could be wrong... If it's not wrong, then the blurb on their About page -- the part where they say:I find http://www.flavorah.com/about/company/ this to be an odd read. Are they saying that popular juice companies use their flavors?
You understanding of their company and flavoring is an excellent (non-mush) summary of everything I've picked up about how they work. In answer to your other question about the VC, it's non Diacetyl but (quoting their site) "Vanilla Custard flavors contain traces of Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl." They don't add the stuff but it naturally occurs in small amounts.Yeah... it's pretty unclear to me too. Reading on reddit I got the impression they were basically a smallish start-up compounder that bought the components for their flavorings from a big company (Mother Murphy's is what someone said). I had thought, based on whatever I read on reddit plus the presentation of their site (not super slick or corporate, not a whole lot of content), that they were a compounder like www.mamajsjuice.com or TFA--but somewhere in the middle between the two in terms of size of operation. That could be wrong... If it's not wrong, then the blurb on their About page -- the part where they say:
"Chances are if you have ever purchased a disposable ecigarette from one of the two leading brands, or vaped ejuice in the past year, then you have tasted some of our flavors."
Is confusing and possibly misleading, but technically accurate. Let's say they are a small-to-mid-size compounder and they get their components directly from a giant manufacturer which happens also to supply the flavor compounders most frequently used by juice vendors. In that case, there is very likely some overlap in "flavors". But the term "our flavors" in the above--at least in this scenario I'm describing--would have to be referring to the flavor components from which they (Flavorah) make the flavor blends they are selling.
And speaking of which, OMG that was really unclear. My brain is mush. I'm hangry, I'm punchy and I need a nap.
Maybe someone from Flavorah will come on here and talk to us and we can ask questions--only shorter and more to the point.. like yours, puppy
Anyway, I did what hazozita did and ordered using the reddit promo (better deal) and got to pick 14 15ml size bottles for 35- including shipping. Also, my tracking info appeared within hours of my order. It was such a good deal, I threw caution to the wind and ordered even though there are definitely baddies in flavors like their strawberry and coconut.
Oh, another odd thing--they mention diacetyl in their strawberry and coconut, but it's not mentioned as being in their vanilla custard flavor, which from the few reports so far, is supposed to be really good.
Yeah... it's pretty unclear to me too. Reading on reddit I got the impression they were basically a smallish start-up compounder that bought the components for their flavorings from a big company (Mother Murphy's is what someone said). I had thought, based on whatever I read on reddit plus the presentation of their site (not super slick or corporate, not a whole lot of content), that they were a compounder like www.mamajsjuice.com or TFA--but somewhere in the middle between the two in terms of size of operation. That could be wrong... If it's not wrong, then the blurb on their About page -- the part where they say:
"Chances are if you have ever purchased a disposable ecigarette from one of the two leading brands, or vaped ejuice in the past year, then you have tasted some of our flavors."
Is confusing and possibly misleading, but technically accurate. Let's say they are a small-to-mid-size compounder and they get their components directly from a giant manufacturer which happens also to supply the flavor compounders most frequently used by juice vendors. In that case, there is very likely some overlap in "flavors". But the term "our flavors" in the above--at least in this scenario I'm describing--would have to be referring to the flavor components from which they (Flavorah) make the flavor blends they are selling.
And speaking of which, OMG that was really unclear. My brain is mush. I'm hangry, I'm punchy and I need a nap.
Maybe someone from Flavorah will come on here and talk to us and we can ask questions--only shorter and more to the point.. like yours, puppy
Anyway, I did what hazozita did and ordered using the reddit promo (better deal) and got to pick 14 15ml size bottles for 35- including shipping. Also, my tracking info appeared within hours of my order. It was such a good deal, I threw caution to the wind and ordered even though there are definitely baddies in flavors like their strawberry and coconut.
Oh, another odd thing--they mention diacetyl in their strawberry and coconut, but it's not mentioned as being in their vanilla custard flavor, which from the few reports so far, is supposed to be really good.
I believe he's referring to the special proprietary compounds Mama J's sells, not their FlavorArt flavor line. As he explained in his post (and was explained before that on reddit), Flavorah makes their own flavoring concentrates using the underlying individual flavor component chemical compounds obtained from Mother Murphy's, one of the biggest manufacturers of these compounds used by all flavor suppliers and juice companies who custom blend their own concentrates.Mama J's Juice though explicitly states the company they sell. Flavorah's use of the words "our concentrates" is odd if they're not actually making their own flavors.
That may be the case too, I don't think it's a crucial distinction for the explanation I was trying to give but you're right that's probably more likely based on the industrial side of the process as I'm familiar with it.More likely that they order their flavors to their own specifications - as I believe TFA does.
Thank you for this explaining. For some reason, I was solely thinking about their rebottled FA flavors. I'm a dunce.I believe he's referring to the special proprietary compounds Mama J's sells, not their FlavorArt flavor line. As he explained in his post (and was explained before that on reddit), Flavorah makes their own flavoring concentrates using the underlying individual flavor component chemical compounds obtained from Mother Murphy's, one of the biggest manufacturers of these compounds used by all flavor suppliers and juice companies who custom blend their own concentrates.
As I'm sure you know, since you're well regarded for your mixes here, a flavoring company's flavor is a complex blend of multiple flavor chemicals, which they usually don't create via in-house organic chemistry but rather combine in a unique proprietary recipe from constituent parts to make a final product which they sell, or blend into e-juice. That's what he meant by that.
Insta-edit: To clarify, as I already stated in my response to him, I agree it's a little unclear that they're implying "their flavors" in big-name ejuice are the constituent molecules from Mother Murphy's to blend their flavor concentrates, not their concentrates as finished products, but they're not being deceptive about it or hiding that either, just writing to market their products in a clever way.
Hey! This is Brendan at Flavorah (Shoreline is my handle) Thanks Zanaspus for opening this thread and hazozita, Lirruping and RocketPuppy for throwing all those questions out there. I’ll do my best to answer them all and give you an idea of who/what we are about! This might be a long post, so I will try to make it as organized as possible so that you can learn what you want.
The first question, where do our flavors come from
Lirruping was correctl, all of our flavors are manufactured and blended by Mother Murphy’s in Greensboro North Carolina. I understand how our “About Us” page caused some confusion, especially the line “Chances are if you have ever purchased a disposable ecigarette from one of the two leading brands, or vaped ejuice in the past year, then you have tasted some of our flavors.”
Mother Murphy’s (MM’s) is an industrial flavor manufacturer that has been around for three generations. They sell flavoring by the barrel for all sorts of uses like food, beverages, tobacco, and in the last several years ejuice. For a sense of scale, their minimum quantity of concentrated flavoring is enough to flavor about 80 gallons of ejuice. They are still family owned and operated.
Mother Murphy’s Lab is inspected by the USDA and adheres to all of the highest standards you would expect from a company selling industrial quantities of flavoring. Check out their website if you are curious, www.mothermurphys.com.
Perhaps the best explanation of Flavorah as a business is that we are a distributor and packager of MM flavorings for DIY ejuice: We are taking the materials manufactured by a big company, and packaging and marketing them for a relatively small segment of their market.
Unfortunately I do not have permission to release who else uses Mother Murphy's in the vaping world, but I will point out that 1) they (MM’s) are located in the heart of tobacco country and have a flavor room there for the industry to use 2) they make juice for several of the largest disposable ecig manufacturers and ejuice distributors, and 3) they typically sell ejuice and flavorings by the barrel (a barrel contains over 200,000ml).
I'll explain how I got started with Flavorah
Flavorah was started in 2013, but did not launch until 2015. If it was not for one of my friends being a Murphy, I would not have been able to start Flavorah as a business.
Here is the story, In Spring of 2013, I was stationed in Quantico Virginia with the Marine Corps. I was hanging out with a friend talking about business opportunities when I got off active duty. He worked for his family business selling flavoring and I thought there ought to be a market for selling smaller quantities of those flavorings online too. I started doing research into the market for retail-size quantities of artificial flavor. This is when I discovered vaping. Initially I learned about vaping by purchasing ecigs and giving them to friends in the Marine Corps. They loved them (mostly clones and refillable cartomizers) and I had a hard time getting them back.
When I started learning about DIY ejuice, there were people on several forums trying out all kinds of things in order to flavor their ejuice. There were not a lot of good vendors, and some people would get their PG from crazy places like Walgreens or Walmart where PG was sold as a laxative. Homemade extractions or flavor & scent drops bought at the grocery store were acceptable starting points for experiments some people were posting online...it seemed like the best options for new flavors was to guess and try and post online what you learned.
After discovering and being fascinated by the underground movement of vaping, I put 2&2 together with my friend who had the flavors, and decided to start something to serve the vaping community with flavoring after I was released from active duty.
Last year I attended the NATO Tobacco show in Las Vegas with some of the guys from MM’s in order to get a lay of the land. Everyone at the show was talking about immanent FDA regulations for ejuice and vaping, plus potential taxes and regulations. Surprisingly there was no DIY ejuice flavoring for sale. The closest thing was Tasty Puff for dripping on your tobacco or gonja.
What they did have a lot of at the Vegas show, however, was Roll-Your-Own tobacco. It seemed to me at the time that DIY Ejuice could end up growing in the future due to taxes and regulations in the same way as Roll-your-Own tobacco has.
When I moved home to Washington State in 2014, the legislature tried to pass a bill taxing ejuice and hardware 95%. I attended the protest rally in Olympia our state capitol with a friend who had recently quit smoking by switching over to vaping. That week I also contacted a guy I knew in the state legislature who was sponsoring the bill to give him my 2cents. Fortunately the bill was defeated, but the threat to vaping was really obvious.
At that point I started the process of importing a filling, plugging and capping machine so that I could start serving the DIY community with concentrated flavoring. While waiting for it to arrive, I secured 2,400 feet of commercial space to set up our production and fulfillment operation.
What Flavorah does
Our flavors are mixed at MM’s lab. We get the large container from them and use a pharma type peristaltic pump on our machine in Seattle to draw the flavoring from its container and pump the measured amount into the 15ml bottle we use for packaging. From there it gets the plastic plug and cap put on. Then the label is applied separately by a different automatic machine. I’ll try to post a video of this process soon; it reminds me of the TV Series, “How its made.”
As a startup, we are essentially entering the market after the proverbial “dust has settled” and designing our product from the ground up for vaping. As you probably know from being part of this forum, a lot of the flavors that people have ended up using for DIY over the last couple years were never intended for ejuice, but because MM is willing to work with us, and others in the vaping market we are getting better and better results.
For instance, I have been working directly with MM’s to give Flavorah an edge when dealing with Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, and Acetoin. They have done the research and we (Flavorah) are hoping to eliminate these completely from some of our flavors this year, and to add new flavors that are D/A/AP free for vapor.
Flavorah’s approach for DIY ejuice
As a small business, I really want us to start off with excellent customer service, and maintain that responsiveness. That means I do not want to grow faster than we can manage.
To accomplish that, we have started with one size offering (15ml), and 21 flavors that vape REALLY well. I want people to try our stuff and immediately say, “'holy cow,' this is amazing!"
There are some critical challenges, like packaging and shipping, as we grow and I really want to avoid getting “Flamed” by an unhappy member of the community.
I want you to know that we are here to serve the DIY community. If you EVER order from us and receive a leaking bottle, the wrong flavor, or something that you did not want, then contact me and we will send a replacement immediately. Also, feedback about what flavors you want to see in the future is really helpful. I am making a list right now as a matter of fact
In regards to shipping, since our flavors are undiluted, they are often also a Category III hazmat (flammable) liquid. We are able to ship them with the USPS under a small quantity exemption for plastic bottles 0ml. This is also the reason why we cannot ship to Europe without paying $100/parcel right now.
Ideas for Deals
People are aware of the Flavorah Reddit promo we did. That was after after reaching out to Botboy and KirkT on the subreddit for ideas several weeks ahead of time. What do people want for a VU promo? Currently it is VUG which gives you free samples, but I am open to your ideas…
I wish Shoreline would respond.
They haven't answered anything. I have a feeling they use tfa/fa in their titles to lure customers to their products.Did they explain this description yet? I'm curious. I'm thinking it is a blend of these two vendors/flavor manufactures. Or just a misleading description...
They didn't say how their flavors are made beyond saying that the company makes large batches of flavors.Have you ever eBayed? It's just ghetto eBay SEO, standard practice for search hits. They explained exactly where their flavorings come from and how they're made already right here in this thread.
I submitted my post too early by acident and you quoted me before I updated it, but I'll address this further. I guess I'm not sure what exactly you're asking about? Their flavors are made exactly how other manufacturers like TFA and FA and everyone else makes them -- aroma compounds are synthesized (technically, the majority are derived from bacterial metabolism products, the so-called "Natural Flavors") and then giant flavoring houses like Givaudan or Mother Murphy's design custom aromas based on their array of trademarked aromas. These chemicals, highly secretive and protected trademarked IP, are guarded insanely closely by their owners, which is why many flavor companies (looking at you, LA, and to some degree, CAP) are so reluctant to submit to any kind of testing or information sharing. Regardless, the flavoring compounds are blended to create the desired impressions for the flavors requested by Flavorah, and shipped in bulk. From there, they're bottled and so forth as described. I'm not sure which aspect of the flavoring industry or process you want more information on, exactly, but he explained and answered more than i was expecting him to, honestly, knowing the industry as I do. What else are you looking to know about 'how they're made'?They didn't say how their flavors are made beyond saying that the company makes large batches of flavors.
Does this mean there wasn't any e-liquid flavoring at the show or generally speaking? Flavoring for e-liquid has been around and available online for longer than a year.Last year I attended the NATO Tobacco show in Las Vegas with some of the guys from MM’s in order to get a lay of the land. Everyone at the show was talking about immanent FDA regulations for ejuice and vaping, plus potential taxes and regulations. Surprisingly there was no DIY ejuice flavoring for sale. The closest thing was Tasty Puff for dripping on your tobacco or gonja.
I'm not asking how they're made but thank you. I was just responding that they didn't address this.I submitted my post too early by acident and you quoted me before I updated it, but I'll address this further. I guess I'm not sure what exactly you're asking about? Their flavors are made exactly how other manufacturers like TFA and FA and everyone else makes them -- aroma compounds are synthesized (technically, the majority are derived from bacterial metabolism products, the so-called "Natural Flavors") and then giant flavoring houses like Givaudan or Mother Murphy's design custom aromas based on their array of trademarked aromas. These chemicals, highly secretive and protected trademarked IP, are guarded insanely closely by their owners, which is why many flavor companies (looking at you, LA, and to some degree, CAP) are so reluctant to submit to any kind of testing or information sharing. Regardless, the flavoring compounds are blended to create the desired impressions for the flavors requested by Flavorah, and shipped in bulk. From there, they're bottled and so forth as described. I'm not sure which aspect of the flavoring industry or process you want more information on, exactly, but he explained and answered more than i was expecting him to, honestly, knowing the industry as I do. What else are you looking to know about 'how they're made'?
Sounds similar to yet another company.. interesting
Hey Smoky
I don't know if you meant for this to be cryptic, in which case... I'm not that subtle sometimes and miss these things, so please forgive me, but...
which part sounds similar? What other company? How is it interesting?