FW Candy Cane question

[domyz]

I have a question about the FW candy cane: Is it just me or this takes very long before developping any flavor? I first tried a mix at 10% and it was a background flavor after 5 days.... tried a mix at 15% two days ago and still does not taste a lot. I'm mixing at 65/35 with 10mg ECX nic. I will give it some time but I think it will need like 20% flavoring to taste like Halo Kringle Curse. Or I may try it at 80-20, will see...

 

[Ceddy]

I made the Kringles Curse Clone two days ago, with FW Candy Cane at 10% and it tastes very strong in 30/70. I never tried the Halo version though.

 

[domyz]

Which nicotine and concentration did you use?from what I gather, it seems counterproductive but many people had success with it at high Vg !

 

[domyz]

I don't usually need high flavoring. I use often HIC recommended percentages and find them on the spot...Maybe the FW candy cane need a good shake before mixing

 

[Edd]

Same here 10 percent for me seems plenty strong.

 

[bluraff3]

FW candy cane is one of my favorites. Stand alone I use it around 15%. I find the the flavor actually fades over time. I use it now with maybe .5% koolada and that seems to really boost the minty goodness and keep the flavor longer.

 

[Heabob]

10% works good for me in 70/30VG and 80/20VG, shake & vape.

Some people have taste bud "blockages" for certain flavors.
It's not that rare of a thing around the DIY world.

All that "Taste is Subjective" blah, blah, blah stuff you've probably heard already.

You could probably add a little FA Peppermint or Wintergreen for a "boost".

 

[domyz]

Kringle's curse taste is very strong and prohiminent. I would love to "shake and vape" or wait a day and with FW candy cane at 10% and claim that the flavor is as strong. But it's impossible for me. If that's the case for someone, we don't have the same flavoring, and/or my ECX nic is very flavor muting

And yes already added FA Peppermint, though it's not my favorite. It's too much "leafy, greeny" peppermint taste. It's very natural and well done, but not so good standalone IMO.

Thanks!

 

[Heabob]

Have you tried making any without NIC?

Some people do go up to 15-20% with FW flavors, so...

 

[domyz]

Did not try with no nic. Currently I'm trying to accelerate the steeping of my 12% 50/50 version with warm/hot water so I will update the results in a couple days.

 

[MikeSully]

I mix at least 15% CC with max vg, I add about 1 drop Koolada per ml. I have found it to be a nice. strong flavor but fades a bit with steeping so I don't think that will help. My next attempt will be a mix with FW Creme de Menthe and adjusting the percentages. No plans to play with that too soon, I'll try to post back when I do.

 

[rania272]

I made this tonight and am having the same experience. Mine is a 40/60Vg 6gm nic it also really harsh. I hope it gets better in a few days.

 

[domyz]

Made a batch today and I think I found the culprit. This 12% fresh 50/50 batch taste more than a 4 days old 18% 60/40 one. The difference? I shaked the flavoring really well. Will update tomorrow

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Made a batch today and I think I found the culprit. This 12% fresh 50/50 batch taste more than a 4 days old 18% 60/40 one. The difference? I shaked the flavoring really well. Will update tomorrow

Ah, yes always shake your flavoring! For me 12% is my sweet spot (shake and vape). Also I recommend trying it without nic as well. Sometimes nic interferes as well, and can mute flavoring.

 

[Huckleberried]

I've always heard that Halo's mixes are higher PG, so don't know if that's making a difference for anyone.

 

[rania272]

Forgive me for this noob question (OP don't mean to high jack ur thread) I know that PG carries the flavor.. so if using a 60vg/40pg blend would u need to up your flavor %?

 

[Heabob]

Forgive me for this noob question (OP don't mean to high jack ur thread) I know that PG carries the flavor.. so if using a 60vg/40pg blend would u need to up your flavor %?

Generally no need for extra flavoring, but some heat will help blend the flavoring in quicker.
But some people do need more flavoring than others so YMMV.
A couple of days steeping doesn't hurt either IMO.
24 hrs is a minimum for me but I'm running 70/30VG or 80/20VG.

 

[rania272]

Thank you @Heabob

 

[domyz]

My problem is solved. Made a batch that's better than Kringle's curse:
75PG/25VG
15% FW Candy Cane (Shaked really well the flavoring)
1% EM
2% Koolada
10mg ECX nic (turns out nic level did not really matter, wasn't a nic muting issue)

Seriously this is impressive. After 3 days steeping on the warm router, flavors got out a lot, it's bright, clean and refreshing.
Also perfectly sweet from EM. My god this is a really great vape.

Thanks to all for your advices.

As a note: The ECX nicotine let the flavors through more than MFS, which seems to mute them a little.

 

[AmandaD]

I've always heard that Halo's mixes are higher PG, so don't know if that's making a difference for anyone.

Yes really high PG!

 

[domyz]

Yes
That's why this flavor come through a lot in Kringle's curse.

 

[domyz]

At 15%, there is something odd, it's really hard for the throat. As much as I love the taste of this flavoring, I'm starting to hate everything about it.

 

[Heabob]

Easy to get "burned out", when vaping some flavors.
Peppermint, or mints in general, are not good ADVs for me, too potent...
This is why many will use this at lower %.
The Koolada may be adding to throat issue.
Although some use EM or Sweeteners, I find they mute the flavors too much, especially long term.
Some flavorings can be used to add some level of "sweetness", without changing the flavor.
TFA Marshmallow
FA Meringue
FA Jamaican Rum
TFA Brown Sugar
Plus others...

 

[domyz]

This is the only one of my 150+ flavorings that does this. There is something etchy for the throat in it. Not only tested by me.

 

[Heabob]

This is the only one of my 150+ flavorings that does this. There is something etchy for the throat in it. Not only tested by me.

Not surprised though as I get coughing issues with FW Dutch Apple Pie.
And some can't even smell the CAP VC without getting nausea.

It could be an allergic thing with that one though.

Have you tried any other Peppermint brands like FA?
(Just trying to isolate if it's the brand, or the flavor)

 

[domyz]

Yes i tried FA peppermint which is smooth on the throat, but much more natural and herbal than FW candy cane. TPA taste like spearmint a lot, not so pepperminty.

I stil don't know how halo does it. I might try at 10% and 1 month steeping to see if I can get the same flavor intensity and smoothness that they have

 

[Neunerball]

Generally no need for extra flavoring, but some heat will help blend the flavoring in quicker.
But some people do need more flavoring than others so YMMV.
A couple of days steeping doesn't hurt either IMO.
24 hrs is a minimum for me but I'm running 70/30VG or 80/20VG.

Some heat is OK, when you stay below 30C/86F/303.15K. I'm speeding up the steeping process by utilizing a ultrasonic cleaner with a build in heater. However, a cycle should only last up to 10 Minutes, then it needs to rest for a few Minutes, before starting another cycle. One hour of ultrasonic treatment is about one week of steeping.

 

[Huckleberried]

Some heat is OK, when you stay below 30C/86F/303.15K. I'm speeding up the steeping process by utilizing a ultrasonic cleaner with a build in heater. However, a cycle should only last up to 10 Minutes, then it needs to rest for a few Minutes, before starting another cycle. One hour of ultrasonic treatment is about one week of steeping.

Can I ask your concern with heat above 86F? Several of us tested heat steeping at 150F. There is no loss in nic strength even up to 170 at 4 hours. Does this pertain to the flavoring?

 

[Neunerball]

Can I ask your concern with heat above 86F? Several of us tested heat steeping at 150F. There is no loss in nic strength even up to 170 at 4 hours. Does this pertain to the flavoring?

Have you tested your liquid's nicotine level before and after your heat treatment? Too much heat will only accelerate the oxidation of nicotine. Thus breaking it down quicker. As we all know, you want to keep your nicotine base in a cool, dark place. While heat will also accelerate the oxidation of the flavorings, the activation energy to do so is much lower than required.
Agitation is key in achieving adequate dispersal of your flavoring in solution. Therefore, I'm utilizing the ultrasonic cleaner to do just that. However, it also accelerates the oxidation of the nicotine, so I usually keep the treatment at 3 Minutes.

 

[Heabob]

Have you tested your liquid's nicotine level before and after your heat treatment? Too much heat will only accelerate the oxidation of nicotine. Thus breaking it down quicker. As we all know, you want to keep your nicotine base in a cool, dark place. While heat will also accelerate the oxidation of the flavorings, the activation energy to do so is much lower than required.
Agitation is key in achieving adequate dispersal of your flavoring in solution. Therefore, I'm utilizing the ultrasonic cleaner to do just that. However, it also accelerates the oxidation of the nicotine, so I usually keep the treatment at 3 Minutes.

Yes, some have tested the Nic before and after the 4 hour 150 deg. crock pot treatment will little to no effect.
Both my flavorings and Nic are oxidizing just sitting on the shelf, and changing color is the only thing I've noticed, so far...
Sometimes I use my UC and run 2-4 30min cycles, but no built in heater and it just gets warm.

Curious now, as that would mean all these "food" flavorings can't be used for cooking or baking.

 

[Huckleberried]

When I first started out in DIY I was adamant about testing every batch of base that I made. Then when I read about heat steeping in a crock pot and people wanting to know results, I decided for find out for myself, not that I was the first person to test, not at all. I had made 16 mg at the time. After a crock post steep, the nic level was the same.

I always keep my nic base (a 300ml mix of nic/pg/vg that I make) and a small bottle of nic out (60ml of 100mg/ml) that I'll use to mix more with in the coming month or two, stored in a cool dark cabinet. The rest of my nic is stored in the freezer in 100ml glass amber bottles.

I wasn't trying to argue your point @Neunerball, I was curious about the temp you had mentioned.

 

[Neunerball]

When I first started out in DIY I was adamant about testing every batch of base that I made. Then when I read about heat steeping in a crock pot and people wanting to know results, I decided for find out for myself, not that I was the first person to test, not at all. I had made 16 mg at the time. After a crock post steep, the nic level was the same.

I always keep my nic base (a 300ml mix of nic/pg/vg that I make) and a small bottle of nic out (60ml of 100mg/ml) that I'll use to mix more with in the coming month or two, stored in a cool dark cabinet. The rest of my nic is stored in the freezer in 100ml glass amber bottles.

I wasn't trying to argue your point @Neunerball, I was curious about the temp you had mentioned.

NP. I'm Just passing on, what I've read on Nude Nicotine.

 

[Huckleberried]

Oh cool, I hadn't seen a vendor post that kind of info pertaining to nic. Thanks.

 

[Neunerball]

....Curious now, as that would mean all these "food" flavorings can't be used for cooking or baking....

The comments about the heat were regarding the nicotine, not the flavor.

 

[Heabob]

The comments about the heat were regarding the nicotine, not the flavor.

Sorry, must have misunderstood.
Not meaning to be a nit-picker, but, "oxidization" is caused by exposure to air, hence the name.
Degradation of Nicotine can be caused by heat or light.

 

[domyz]

Update, the culprit was the nicotine. Now I'll only use VT nic. MFS and ECX mutes flavors soo much. MFS is even more muting though

 

[HeadInClouds]

yep I'm glad you tried some.

 

[domyz]

As a note, I find the throat hit different on VT. Where the other nics have a "peaky" throat hit, I mean short and hard. This one has a longer throat hit, that last longer, like 0.7seconds instead of 0.2seconds, you know what I mean. So If you would draw a throat hit curve, I think the overall surface under the curve would be the same, but with other nicotines the curve would be more peaky..
I found it hard to bare in the beginning, but with adaptation, now I'm loving longer, more progressive and smoother hits!!
It's like the throat is not reacting at the same speed. Probably because the nicotine is more pure, and throat irritation is lesser so a slower reaction of the throat is needed.

Am I right ?