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gauges to try? (316L twisted pair, single coil RTA MTL)

DudeMan

Member For 2 Years
howdy folks,

new to vaping. i'm going with a 'Berserker V1.5 MINI MTL RTA' tank, on top of an iStick Pico (75W) with sammy 25R battery.

from looking at mouth to lung builds, i'm leaning toward higher-ish resistance, lower wattage. .75Ω - 1.4Ω @ <20w
twisted pairs seem like they would have good surface area, and not hard to make.

i'm looking at 316L stainless steel wire from Kbee on ebay. not sure which gauges to try. :confused: any suggestions?

i have looked at https://www.steam-engine.org/coil (thanks whoever linked to this!) 28 to 32 gauge?

cheers :cheers:
/DudeMan
 

MyMagicMist

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You may even want to try 26 awg. It works up rather nicely for plain old twisted wire coils.

If you go for an inner diameter of 3 mm in the coil you'll need 21 wraps to get .75Ω & 40 to get 1.4Ω.

2 mm ID requires 54 wraps for 1.4Ω & 28 wraps for .75Ω. I would avoid 2 mm for 1.4Ω with 26 awg though as that becomes too massive to be feasible really, even at .75 it is a bit much. You might try that with 28 awg.

.75Ω for 28 awg at 3 mm ID takes 14 wraps which is hedging mass wise. 1.4Ω with 28 awg at 3 mm ID takes 26 wraps.

Now, if you're using regulated mods then mass kind of becomes a bit irrelevant. More likely than not in that case you'll also be using dual cell batteries. That kind of set up can handle pushing more mass.

I sometimes use twisted Stainless 26 awg but build to .3Ω to .5Ω on a single cell mech. It does alright giving me about 2/3 days use off a charge. That's 26 awg twisted wrapped 8 times around 3 mm for .3Ω & 14 wraps for .5Ω. More than naught though I keep it simpler and use single strand no twisting 26 awg for .5Ω at 7 wraps over 3 mm, .3Ω at 4 wraps, or as I got currently .45Ω at 6 wraps. It does rather well too. :)

Keep in mind a simple mnemonic, mass and mechs don't mix. :) It can "work" but it's not usually something you rave about.

By the by, I'm not great expert coil builder. This is just a sharing of my general experience. @Shredtravolta or @raymo2u are probably some of the better master coil builders. They can likely offer better guidance than myself and will now pop in eventually. :)
 
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nadalama

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I think in the range of wire you'd want to use in a Berserker Mini, your best bet will be 26 or 28 ga round.

Personally I have never been fond of twisted - seems to spit and pop a lot, plus you have such limited space in the Berserker, to get the coil up above 0.7 ohms, plain round may be the only way to do it.

30 ga is a little hard to work with on its own, in my opinion. 26 or 28 will give you a coil that has some substance, won't pull all out of shape when you go to wick it, and will last a reasonable length of time provided you don't shock it with 75 watts of power.

I'd stick with N80, too, provided you aren't sensitive to nickel. N80 wire's resistance is sort of in the middle of resistance range, between Kanthal on the high end and Stainless Steel on the low end, but it ramps up faster than Kanthal and to me, that makes it much more pleasant to use.

Seems like I also remember you want to stay at about 2.5mm for the Berserker. It's tiny in there.
 

Wb80

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26 or 28g. 2.5mm id. The deck is tight on the 1.5. But i like it. It is verry tight mtl
 

DudeMan

Member For 2 Years
thank you everyone!

By the by, I'm not great expert coil builder. This is just a sharing of my general experience.
your input and time is much appreciated. :)

Personally I have never been fond of twisted - seems to spit and pop a lot, plus you have such limited space in the Berserker, to get the coil up above 0.7 ohms, plain round may be the only way to do it.
interesting. i plan on doing a lot of experimenting. will definitely make some simple round coils of varying sizes/lengths.

30 ga is a little hard to work with on its own, in my opinion. 26 or 28 will give you a coil that has some substance, won't pull all out of shape when you go to wick it, and will last a reasonable length of time provided you don't shock it with 75 watts of power.
Kbee has a 4 pack of 24, 26, 28, 30. i'm going to get 32 as well just to try it (twisted).

I'd stick with N80, too, provided you aren't sensitive to nickel. N80 wire's resistance is sort of in the middle of resistance range, between Kanthal on the high end and Stainless Steel on the low end, but it ramps up faster than Kanthal and to me, that makes it much more pleasant to use.
i appreciate the info. SS being the safest, i am starting there.

Seems like I also remember you want to stay at about 2.5mm for the Berserker. It's tiny in there.
i have a drill index (standard) i plan on using for wrapping the coils. so it might end up being something other than metric. :eek:
thanks for everything nadalama. :)

26 or 28g. 2.5mm id. The deck is tight on the 1.5. But i like it. It is verry tight mtl
noted, and thanks. :)

cheers :vino:
/DudeMan
 

Anibird

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Gonna jump in here. What's the easiest way to twist the wires? I have some ss that's very thin so I think I should twist it to make it usable. Anyone have any tips on twisting?
 

DudeMan

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i plan on using a cordless drill. loop a length in half, then hook it on an S hook on my workbench. twist the end and place it in the drill chuck. then spin the drill. that way you don't need equal lengths of wire.

i've seen youtube videos of people using pen caps if you don't own a drill.
 

Anibird

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Guess I'll check some vids cause I don't own a drill. I'm not allowed to use power tools :D
 

Anibird

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No I didn't know. Guess I need to look into them. Thanks!
 

MrMeowgi

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Gonna jump in here. What's the easiest way to twist the wires? I have some ss that's very thin so I think I should twist it to make it usable. Anyone have any tips on twisting?
You can use a sharpie and a coffee cup also. Wrap a loop through the finger hole of the cup. Holdnthe loose ends with pliers and spin the crap out of it
 

MyMagicMist

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Got one similar to the style pictured below.

hand-drill-1.jpg


It belonged to Papaw John. He could use it, and go faster than a corded, or battery powered drill. Never got as good with one but do know how to use them. When he took me out to set corner posts for fence he instructed me to always throw in a handful of bent up rusty nails in the post hole prior to setting the post. His dad son of a German immigrant had taught him that, his dad taught him. Simple explanation, "it keeps the bad away."
 

Synphul

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If doing stainless for mtl, simple round wire like just coil off a spool wrapped into a coil, 26-28ga. If looking to do twisted I'd opt for 28-30ga. Keep in mind mtl uses small puffs, you want the wire to ramp up rather quickly. And cool down quickly as well, thinner gauges work well for that.

8-9 wraps of 28ga ss316L at 2.5mm id or 7 wraps 28ga ss316L at 3mm id will get you around .70-.75 ohms. The resistance isn't really important on a regulated mod so much as the wattage and wire mass (thickness of wire, amount of wraps. Overall metal that needs to be heated). 6-7 wraps 3mm id of 28ga ss316L twisted would get you around 0.5-0.55 ohms. 6-7 wraps of 3mm id ss316L 30ga twisted (2 strands) would be around .7 to .75 ohms.

Not my image, just one I grabbed online and this says it's triple strand twisted. It still shows a fairly snug twist if you decide to go that route. A lot of times I see people starting out doing twisted and they're so loose they begin coming apart, unwinding. Large gaps between each overlapping strand. They work better when they're twisted up tighter and hold their shape.

12-Triple-Twisted-Stainless-Steel-316L-24g-Coils.jpg
 

DudeMan

Member For 2 Years
many thanks Synphul. i'm going to start with simple round coils as you and others have suggested in 26, and 28ga. will be using temperature control, so i hear you on the mass being important for quick ramp up/cool down.

plan on starting with lower wattage and temps, then slowly ramp up to find what works.

thanks again.
/DudeMan
 

gbalkam

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You may even want to try 26 awg. It works up rather nicely for plain old twisted wire coils.

If you go for an inner diameter of 3 mm in the coil you'll need 21 wraps to get .75Ω & 40 to get 1.4Ω.

2 mm ID requires 54 wraps for 1.4Ω & 28 wraps for .75Ω. I would avoid 2 mm for 1.4Ω with 26 awg though as that becomes too massive to be feasible really, even at .75 it is a bit much. You might try that with 28 awg.

.75Ω for 28 awg at 3 mm ID takes 14 wraps which is hedging mass wise. 1.4Ω with 28 awg at 3 mm ID takes 26 wraps.

Now, if you're using regulated mods then mass kind of becomes a bit irrelevant. More likely than not in that case you'll also be using dual cell batteries. That kind of set up can handle pushing more mass.

I sometimes use twisted Stainless 26 awg but build to .3Ω to .5Ω on a single cell mech. It does alright giving me about 2/3 days use off a charge. That's 26 awg twisted wrapped 8 times around 3 mm for .3Ω & 14 wraps for .5Ω. More than naught though I keep it simpler and use single strand no twisting 26 awg for .5Ω at 7 wraps over 3 mm, .3Ω at 4 wraps, or as I got currently .45Ω at 6 wraps. It does rather well too. :)

Keep in mind a simple mnemonic, mass and mechs don't mix. :) It can "work" but it's not usually something you rave about.

By the by, I'm not great expert coil builder. This is just a sharing of my general experience. @Shredtravolta or @raymo2u are probably some of the better master coil builders. They can likely offer better guidance than myself and will now pop in eventually. :)
I dont think that RTA Mini will hold 2 *or even 1* 3.0mmid coil, they are pretty tight to work in. Prob 2.0 x2. For flavor a simple 1 core clapton. For low wattage and decent flavor. 28ga core would do and easier to work with than a 30ga core.
 

DudeMan

Member For 2 Years
I dont think that RTA Mini will hold 2 *or even 1* 3.0mmid coil, they are pretty tight to work in. Prob 2.0 x2. For flavor a simple 1 core clapton. For low wattage and decent flavor. 28ga core would do and easier to work with than a 30ga core.
it IS small in there. smaller than i pictured in my head.
first wire, 26AWG i wound onto a 7/64" (2.78mm) bit. came out to .53Ω, but after some use settled out at .58Ω.
been working really well @ 18w with temperature control between 240°-300°F

when i re-wick and have better lighting, i'll post pics, # of windings etc.

cheers everyone :cheers:

[edit for wire size]
 
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Just Frank

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Gonna jump in here. What's the easiest way to twist the wires? I have some ss that's very thin so I think I should twist it to make it usable. Anyone have any tips on twisting?
Without a drill, I'd use one of these-
5ee78d35-2735-4c81-9eb1-ed6f3e7dbb74

It's a twister made for "tying up" rebar. One end would have to be held firmly or fastened to something. Then just hook your folded wire, twist it using the tool while pulling just a little bit.
 

DudeMan

Member For 2 Years
thanks Just Frank.

i've been rocking simple round wire 28AWG, settling on 7.5 wraps @ .88Ω on my latest build.
easy to wrap and wick. produces good taste, amount, and no spitting. 20w in temp control mode (SS)

stay safe everyone.
 

nadalama

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thanks Just Frank.

i've been rocking simple round wire 28AWG, settling on 7.5 wraps @ .88Ω on my latest build.
easy to wrap and wick. produces good taste, amount, and no spitting. 20w in temp control mode (SS)

stay safe everyone.

Coil specs sound perfect. Well done. You stay safe as well, everyone needs to.
 

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