Has anyone tried any of the new TFA "DX" diketone free flavorings?

[MD_Boater]

Forgive me if this is old news, but I just noticed these listed on the TFA web site.

The description for the DX Banana Cream reads, "This is the diketone free version of our Banana Cream, contains no acetoin or acetyl propionyl. We are only listing small amounts until we get some feedback from customers as to whether this is a good flavor or not!"

They also list a DX Bavarian Cream, DX Hazelnut, and a DX Caramel Original.

Nice to see another company reformulating the bad stuff away.

 

[Smoky Blue]

weird.. thought that it was said if it lacks the big "D" and the "AP" then it has to have acetoin in it.. hmm..
might check into it..
and yes it is MD_ Hopefully they will fix all the flavorings..

 

[HeadInClouds]

weird.. thought that it was said if it lacks the big "D" and the "AP" then it has to have acetoin in it..

Meet butyric acid, the (relatively) new kid on the block.

 

[Scuba-Matt]

And not a very nice kid http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1334.html

 

[MD_Boater]

Here is the actual TFA full MSDS for the DX Banana Cream. You are correct, it is butryc acid.

I can't find any OSHA limits for inhalation. The MSDS info Scuba-Matt posted contains pretty much the standard inhalation verbiage that every other acid in the world has for exposure to the full strength chemical. I wonder if there are any current tests results for the levels inhaled in vapor?

 

[Smoky Blue]

Quote:

It can be detected by mammals with good scent detection abilities (such as dogs) at 10 ppb, whereas humans can detect it in concentrations above 10 ppm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid

 

[MD_Boater]

Hehe... "Butyric acid is present in, and is the main distinctive smell of, human vomit."

Sounds like the perfect ingredient for my next recipe.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Hehe... "Butyric acid is present in, and is the main distinctive smell of, human vomit."

Sounds like the perfect ingredient for my next recipe.

MD_Boater, you should name it "Seasick."

 

[Smoky Blue]

Yucks!!!

 

[MD_Boater]

MD_Boater, you should name it "Seasick."

Great idea... I wonder if it is the active ingredient in "Crab Juice"?

 

[HeadInClouds]

Great idea... I wonder if it is the active ingredient in "Crab Juice"?

haha! Actually, it's most like the new replacement in Capellas v.2 flavors, and TFA followed their lead.

 

[Smoky Blue]

*dies laughin.. any body got a sample of that crab flavoring??
willing to mix up a batch and vid me dripping it..

 

[MD_Boater]

Email PBusardo. He may have some left over. It should be well steeped.

 

[huston]

does anyone have a complete list of the "bad flavorings" on here somewhere?

 

[Smoky Blue]

i have not seen a complete list from all the flavor companies out now..
and we have 2 new ones that I know of..

 

[huston]

does anyone have a list that they know is bad flavors?

 

[Smoky Blue]

I know if you use tfa/tpa on site, they let you know which ones are questionable..

on ecigexpress, supposedly they do this for fa..

 

[huston]

ok ty

 

[Smoky Blue]

i just wish there was a master list from all the flavor companies..
if anyone knows of one, or wants to make one, it would really be appreciated.

 

[EthelMaltol]

i just wish there was a master list from all the flavor companies..
if anyone knows of one, or wants to make one, it would really be appreciated.

I nominate you, Smoky! You would be perfect for the task!

 

[Smoky Blue]

I nominate you, Smoky! You would be perfect for the task!

I wish i could, bit busy here, with my pc being down, doesn't help matters..
i need to log off soon..

 

[Laughmore]

Anyone know if DX Banana Cream tastes very different from the original? I only have the DX, brand new to it, no reference yet.

 

[TRIPDUBZ]

I just mixed a test blend with this, and the TASTE of vomit is an obscure way of describing it...

You know that feeling you get in your throat after you puke? Like that nasty acid "taste" that water won't remedy?

It's that... maybe a long ass steep with change this, but that is a horrible association to build with something you're supposed to enjoy.

So yea, not the taste of vomit, but the acidic feeling of vomit in your throat (even worse).

::tries to shake it off::

 

[HeadInClouds]

Yeah, if you're going to vape flavors with butyric acid (the latest replacement for diacetyl, and which happens to be a molecule found in human vomit), and it gives you that vomit sensation, you can try diluting it wayyyy down and using it as a minor ingredient in a recipe. What you described is how the other replacements for diacetyl smell to me. Steeping doesn't make it go away for me.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

Email PBusardo. He may have some left over. It should be well steeped.

I have heard that 'chinese beans and wieners' and 'asian land crab' are essentially the same flavor.
They say it smells like flatulence and shame.

 

[monkeycurler]

Forgive me if this is old news, but I just noticed these listed on the TFA web site.

The description for the DX Banana Cream reads, "This is the diketone free version of our Banana Cream, contains no acetoin or acetyl propionyl. We are only listing small amounts until we get some feedback from customers as to whether this is a good flavor or not!"

They also list a DX Bavarian Cream, DX Hazelnut, and a DX Caramel Original.

Nice to see another company reformulating the bad stuff away.

I've only been DIYing for half a year now, but I got my hands on the dx hazelut and mixed with capella cup of joe and la bavarian cream. Probably the best latte mixture I have ever tasted. My apologies if this is a late response. Even if the main chemical is found in vomit, it's still better than those found in cigarettes, like how they flavor the filter with pig blood. Anywho, the hazelut is delicious! I love it more than any other hazelut I've tried (I've tried all of tfa's and LA's. Usually tast es super artificial or complete lack of flavor). Any real negative results for vaping are still in study and won't be positive for years to come, but for the time being, I'm quite pleased with the dx line. I don't get thus vomit taste from it that is linked with the found chemical at all.

 

[monkeycurler]

Forgive me if this is old news, but I just noticed these listed on the TFA web site.

The description for the DX Banana Cream reads, "This is the diketone free version of our Banana Cream, contains no acetoin or acetyl propionyl. We are only listing small amounts until we get some feedback from customers as to whether this is a good flavor or not!"

They also list a DX Bavarian Cream, DX Hazelnut, and a DX Caramel Original.

Nice to see another company reformulating the bad stuff away.

Also, to add on to this, butyric acid is also found in many dairy products. In that form, it is responsible for the bad smell that rotten product gives, but, the chemical is also used widely for food flavor enhancement and perfumes. It was first found in butter in 1814 and later characterized for adding a sweet note to taste and smell. It definately adds that missing umph to vaping flavors, I can say this for sure!

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Has anyone heard any new news/facts on the risks associated with acetoin in the v1 flavors?

From what I'm reading on google, dx is still less desired than the original tfa flavorings.

I'm not sure if I should go with dx or the original. I don't want popover lungs lol but I enjoy custard/butter flavor.

What a dilemma.

 

[AndriaD]

Forgive me if this is old news, but I just noticed these listed on the TFA web site.

The description for the DX Banana Cream reads, "This is the diketone free version of our Banana Cream, contains no acetoin or acetyl propionyl. We are only listing small amounts until we get some feedback from customers as to whether this is a good flavor or not!"

They also list a DX Bavarian Cream, DX Hazelnut, and a DX Caramel Original.

Nice to see another company reformulating the bad stuff away.

The Dx Bavarian is very good; if you combine it with their Vanilla Swirl (their diketone-free version of vanilla custard, though it lacks that "DX" designator, and it's really more vanilla than custard), it makes an excellent vanilla custard flavor.

Be aware that using more than 6%, 6.5% TOPS, of the DX bavarian, gives you a strong taste of the butyric acid, which is pretty nasty. If you stay below the 6% level, and especially if you combine with Vanilla Swirl, you never taste that.

I like tne TFA DX hazelnut better than CAP's hazelnut v2; they're similar, both pretty strong with acetyl pyrazine, but the TFA is a bit more subtle -- you taste the AP, but it doesn't bang you over the head.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

The Dx Bavarian is very good; if you combine it with their Vanilla Swirl (their diketone-free version of vanilla custard, though it lacks that "DX" designator, and it's really more vanilla than custard), it makes an excellent vanilla custard flavor.

Be aware that using more than 6%, 6.5% TOPS, of the DX bavarian, gives you a strong taste of the butyric acid, which is pretty nasty. If you stay below the 6% level, and especially if you combine with Vanilla Swirl, you never taste that.

I like tne TFA DX hazelnut better than CAP's hazelnut v2; they're similar, both pretty strong with acetyl pyrazine, but the TFA is a bit more subtle -- you taste the AP, but it doesn't bang you over the head.

Andria

Oh ok, I'll add these to my try list. Have you ever tried the dx version of frosted donut tfa?

From what I've read.... Meh, it's iffy. Wasn't sure if anyone has tried that one. Was thinking the dx might be lacking considering the slight acetoin is what gives it that doughy and buttery donut aspect.

 

[AndriaD]

Oh ok, I'll add these to my try list. Have you ever tried the dx version of frosted donut tfa?

From what I've read.... Meh, it's iffy. Wasn't sure if anyone has tried that one. Was thinking the dx might be lacking considering the slight acetoin is what gives it that doughy and buttery donut aspect.

Haven't tried it, but I might; it must be new-ish, I don't think I saw it, last time I was cruising the TPA/TFA site. I guess that's the downside of buying my go-to flavors in bigger bottles, I don't need to check out the new offerings as often. Or maybe that's an upside.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Haven't tried it, but I might; it must be new-ish, I don't think I saw it, last time I was cruising the TPA/TFA site. I guess that's the downside of buying my go-to flavors in bigger bottles, I don't need to check out the new offerings as often. Or maybe that's an upside.

Andria

Oh shit, I so know what you mean and I haven't even ordered yet. Lmao!

My cart was full of flavors, then I decided to stick with a diy kit and go from there.

Not sure which one I'll try, kinda afraid to tweak the original frosted donut recipe. I don't think one 30 ml bottle of the reg will give me popcorn lungs. Gosh that would be the shits eh?

Later, if I get the dx donut, I may start my mixes with it at 6% too. I don't want puke flavored coil sauce.

The banana cream sounds delish...

What are a few of your favorite tfa flaves?

 

[AndriaD]

Oh shit, I so know what you mean and I haven't even ordered yet. Lmao!

My cart was full of flavors, then I decided to stick with a diy kit and go from there.

Not sure which one I'll try, kinda afraid to tweak the original frosted donut recipe. I don't think one 30 ml bottle of the reg will give me popcorn lungs. Gosh that would be the shits eh?

Later, if I get the dx donut, I may start my mixes with it at 6% too. I don't want puke flavored coil sauce.

The banana cream sounds delish...

What are a few of your favorite tfa flaves?

Well I go thru quite a lot of the Vanilla Swirl and DX Bavarian, thx to my strawberry & cream ADV -- been vaping that pretty much all the time, with just a few little flavor vacations, since Dec 2014. And I use the Vanilla Swirl with some others, though the Inawera Shisha Vanilla may be replacing it in some of my other recipes -- which I haven't mixed up in what seems like donkey's years, I'm so stuck on that strawberry.

I think it's kinda like when I smoked; once my taste gets set on a certain thing, and used to it, I don't really see a huge need for something different. Every once in a great while, my taster kinda goes on the fritz, and I like to vape blueberry muffin; now that I can't get it from sweet-vapes anymore, I'm thinking of trying out Heather's Heavenly Vapes version of it. I generally doctor it up with some TFA Banana Nut Bread (which may be one of the few TFA flavors that's good quite by itself, but I LOVE banana and blueberry flavors together), some Flash, and a bit of sweetener, to bring it from the 80% Pg level it's sold at, to my preferred 85%. TFA's Blueberry Extra is my favorite blueberry flavoring, but if you go over 8% with it, it just goes muted, and you can't taste it at all -- so I rev it up with a little TFA Blueberry-Wild.

And I won't use any sweetener but TFA's. I've tried a couple others, and though in general (in food), I don't mind the taste of sucralose, the other liquid versions of pure sucralose aren't very good, taste kinda artificial-sweetener-whang, except for TFA's.

Oh, also, TFA's Cherry Extract -- it's by far the best cherry I've tried; I'm not really a HUGE fan of cherry, thx to all those foul kids' medicines that are cherry flavored and just SUCK, so I'm pretty picky with anything cherry flavored. The Cherry Extract though, that's excellent. However, if you really WANT a maraschino-cherry flavor, I highly recommend LorAnn's; it's spot-on maraschino cherry.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

I'm so going to try out all of these. Not too sound like a copy cat but I love banana blueberry combos and cream vapes. Strawberry and coconut too.

Thank you for the percentages too. The banana nut bread sounds hella yummy. I added the tfa sweetener yesterday because I do like a little sweet in my vapes.

Do you find those cherry flavors directly from their websites? I've heard awesome reviews of la flavors. Yet I can't find that tfa cherry. They have black cherry but I've been advised it tastes like cough drops.

Hazelnut coffee with some cream. Or Irish cream... Yum, now I'm thinking out loud.

 

[AndriaD]

I'm so going to try out all of these. Not too sound like a copy cat but I love banana blueberry combos and cream vapes. Strawberry and coconut too.

Thank you for the percentages too. The banana nut bread sounds hella yummy. I added the tfa sweetener yesterday because I do like a little sweet in my vapes.

Do you find those cherry flavors directly from their websites? I've heard awesome reviews of la flavors. Yet I can't find that tfa cherry. They have black cherry but I've been advised it tastes like cough drops.

Hazelnut coffee with some cream. Or Irish cream... Yum, now I'm thinking out loud.

Actually I get TFA cherry extract from Wizard Labs -- they sell 1oz, which is roughly 30ml, for $3.95, while TPA/TFA sells 15ml, roughly 1/2 oz, for $3.25 -- much better deal at WizLabs! It's at http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/category&path=85&page=4

Also, I dunno if it's still true, but there for a while TFA had a big restriction on shipping the Cherry Extract; they would ship it by ground only, since it contains alcohol, it's flammable -- no air transport. Since they're in California and I'm in GA, that's a long ground-ship [ETA: and it requires UPS HazMat shipping, very costly!]. WizLabs is in FL, and don't offer any wonky shipping for cherry extract.

Andria

 

[Heabob]

I'm not sure if I should go with dx or the original.

DX French Vanilla, DX Bavarian Crema, & DX Sweet Cream versions I think taste better than the regular.
But the Vanilla Bean Gelato is nasty, it's kind-of a DX version of Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, which is great BTW.

 

[Heabob]

Oh, also, TFA's Cherry Extract -- it's by far the best cherry I've tried; I'm not really a HUGE fan of cherry, thx to all those foul kids' medicines that are cherry flavored and just SUCK, so I'm pretty picky with anything cherry flavored. The Cherry Extract though, that's excellent. However, if you really WANT a maraschino-cherry flavor, I highly recommend LorAnn's; it's spot-on maraschino cherry.

Think I've got as many different Cherry flavors as I do Vanilla flavors, lol.
Haven't really liked any of them yet.
2 more to add to the list.

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Actually I get TFA cherry extract from Wizard Labs -- they sell 1oz, which is roughly 30ml, for $3.95, while TPA/TFA sells 15ml, roughly 1/2 oz, for $3.25 -- much better deal at WizLabs! It's at http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/category&path=85&page=4

Also, I dunno if it's still true, but there for a while TFA had a big restriction on shipping the Cherry Extract; they would ship it by ground only, since it contains alcohol, it's flammable -- no air transport. Since they're in California and I'm in GA, that's a long ground-ship [ETA: and it requires UPS
HazMat shipping, very costly!]. WizLabs is in FL, and don't offer any wonky shipping for cherry extract.

Andria

Wow, that sounds like a pain. Do you have to boil the alcohol out before use?

Oooo, these are much cheaper. Thanks for the link.

I've heard the black cherry is ok in very small amounts with a good steep. I'd like a nice nutty cherry cream.

 

[Crochetandcookies]

DX French Vanilla, DX Bavarian Crema, & DX Sweet Cream versions I think taste better than the regular.
But the Vanilla Bean Gelato is nasty, it's kind-of a DX version of Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, which is great BTW.

Oh ok, have you tried the dx coconut or the banana cream dx by chance?

And I'm right there with ya on the cherry and vanillas. Love em.

I've got the dx bavarian cream to play with. I think I'm gonna have to put my premade juice orders on hold for now because my diy kit and flavors have sucked my vaping budget dry lmao.

I'm gonna need a quick shake and vape when it comes in the mail, just about out now and with the holiday weekend.... Oh boy.

 

[AndriaD]

Wow, that sounds like a pain. Do you have to boil the alcohol out before use?

Oooo, these are much cheaper. Thanks for the link.

I've heard the black cherry is ok in very small amounts with a good steep. I'd like a nice nutty cherry cream.

Nah, but if the alcohol taste bothers you in whatever juice you mix, you can let it stand without a cap for 24 hrs, and it'll evaporate out. I dont' really taste OR smell it, but, even though I have a VERY keen nose, I'm a zillion miles from a super-taster. But then the only thing I've mixed using that cherry extract is a cherry-vanilla pipe tobacco, and the other flavors are pretty strong; I wanted only a hint of cherry, not in-your-face cherry.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Nah, but if the alcohol taste bothers you in whatever juice you mix, you can let it stand without a cap for 24 hrs, and it'll evaporate out. I dont' really taste OR smell it, but, even though I have a VERY keen nose, I'm a zillion miles from a super-taster. But then the only thing I've mixed using that cherry extract is a cherry-vanilla pipe tobacco, and the other flavors are pretty strong; I wanted only a hint of cherry, not in-your-face cherry.

Andria

Oh wow that sounds delicious. I bet it turned out good too huh?

 

[AndriaD]

Oh wow that sounds delicious. I bet it turned out good too huh?

It's pretty good! I posted the recipe in the Recipes sub-forum, but i think I'm going to fiddle with it some more, since I got some Inawera Shisha Vanilla. It's not a custard type, but really vanilla; I'm thinking it would suit that recipe a lot better than the Vanilla Swirl I usued originally. Really I think what *makes* it is the INW Deluxe TDM, which has very faint notes of chocolate mixed in the tobacco and vanilla; I also use some INW Vanilla for Pipe... just a smidge of sweetener. With the 2 sweet-tobacco flavors, plus the cherry and vanilla, it's not bad at all.

Andria

 

[Heabob]

Oh ok, have you tried the dx coconut or the banana cream dx by chance?

Nope haven't bothered yet, probably cause I actually like the regular versions.
Plus it's getting a bit crowded around here with 414 flavors now, and several more on my wish list for next time.

BTW I only tried the other 3 DX versions based on some reviews that claimed they liked them better than the regular ones.
Thought I'd try them mainly because I didn't like the regular TFA Bavarian Cream.

 

[AndriaD]

I have some of the DX Banana Cream, but haven't tried it yet. When I read this last couple posts here, I went over and had a sniff of it, and it's quite high in alcohol too, apparently -- smells like a cross between liqueur and paint thinner.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Nope haven't bothered yet, probably cause I actually like the regular versions.
Plus it's getting a bit crowded around here with 414 flavors now, and several more on my wish list for next time.

BTW I only tried the other 3 DX versions based on some reviews that claimed they liked them better than the regular ones.
Thought I'd try them mainly because I didn't like the regular TFA Bavarian Cream.

I think the popcorn lung studies are freaking me out. I vape about 10 mls+ a day so I don't know if I should be conscerned about the original flavors or not. And using them in combo with one another, on top of what's in each flavor...I'm guessing would increase the acetoin or diacetyl in my mix.

I'd like the original but I don't want scarred lungs. So I don't know what to order lol. The original flavors sound more yummy tho.

 

[Crochetandcookies]

I have some of the DX Banana Cream, but haven't tried it yet. When I read this last couple posts here, I went over and had a sniff of it, and it's quite high in alcohol too, apparently -- smells like a cross between liqueur and paint thinner.

Andria

And it tastes like vomit, farts, and asshats if mixed badly...lol. I'm scared. Haha.

 

[AndriaD]

I think the popcorn lung studies are freaking me out. I vape about 10 mls+ a day so I don't know if I should be conscerned about the original flavors or not. And using them in combo with one another, on top of what's in each flavor...I'm guessing would increase the acetoin or diacetyl in my mix.

I'd like the original but I don't want scarred lungs. So I don't know what to order lol. The original flavors sound more yummy tho.

Here's the thing, and the logic I've used. I've mentioned why I avoid diketones, I have asthma and I'm a hypochondriac, and I can easily have a panic attack if I think there's something really badly wrong with me, even if it's just an everyday ordinary asthma attack. As far as i know, I'm never tasted any ejuice with diketones. So when I started DIYing, I didn't get any diketone-containing flavors -- and if I discovered that one I bought does contain them, I trash it. So I have no idea what I'm missing, *if anything*. Ignorance is bliss. I make my recipes based on the flavors without them, and my recipes so far have been ok, at least a few of them -- I've had a lot more failures than successes, which I think is pretty common with DIY.

If you never taste those flavors, then you'll never miss them.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

And it tastes like vomit, farts, and asshats if mixed badly...lol. I'm scared. Haha.

I also just got some Inawera "Banan Koncentrat" -- not the shisha banana, the reviews of it aren't that great, but their regular banana concentrate; it smells pretty good, more or less as I would expect banana cream to smell, or like sliced bananas on a bowl of cheerios, which I think smells like Juicy Fruit gum.

Andria

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Here's the thing, and the logic I've used. I've mentioned why I avoid diketones, I have asthma and I'm a hypochondriac, and I can easily have a panic attack if I think there's something really badly wrong with me, even if it's just an everyday ordinary asthma attack. As far as i know, I'm never tasted any ejuice with diketones. So when I started DIYing, I didn't get any diketone-containing flavors -- and if I discovered that one I bought does contain them, I trash it. So I have no idea what I'm missing, *if anything*. Ignorance is bliss. I make my recipes based on the flavors without them, and my recipes so far have been ok, at least a few of them -- I've had a lot more failures than successes, which I think is pretty common with DIY.

If you never taste those flavors, then you'll never miss them.

Andria

I had a caramel cinnamon roll that I'm pretty sure had acetoin in there. It was freaking amazing...

I'm guessing in recipes that use original flavors...maybe cut those in half when using the dx versions? I want to try some simple recipes but they all call for the regular tfa flavors that have "caution" stamped on them.

Like you, I also have severe panic disorder and I take a couple of blood pressure meds at high doses. Have you had any noticeable respiratory problems with the dx versions?

The first time I heard of the shisha strawberry and inwr flavors was when I stumbled onto this forum.

And I'll be looking forward to trying the recipes you posted, can't wait.

There are alot of recipes lol. Hopefully someday I can add a few myself.

Will definitely start low with percentages of flavor and work my way up. I gotta admit I hope I don't blow all my juice with shitty ideas or flavor combos. Haha!

 

[Crochetandcookies]

Whoa...

Nope haven't bothered yet, probably cause I actually like the regular versions.
Plus it's getting a bit crowded around here with 414 flavors now, and several more on my wish list for next time.

By the way...that's quite the flavor collection!

How many months, in your experience, will a flavoring stay good for?