How to Develop a Premium Juice cheaply in less than 7 days

[Mixman]

Lets say you have a great idea for a juice. You can make bottle after bottle of trial and error juice till you get it right and it will take time. Weeks or even longer. I have done it. It's hell. I'm not talking about something decent or vapable or even good but downright professional spot on, put it on the shelf AND SELL IT. This is how I do it fast and it doesnt cost a lot or take forever and I want to share it:

1. Make a 30ml bottle using flavors that you know are the centerpiece of your flavor. EX. Passionfruit/Guava and write everything down. Make/Amount/PG/VG/Nic and exact measurements of each ingredient.
2. Take a 5ml cylinder and measure out the amount of Pf/Gauva base you want plus the new flavor(s) you want to add, say Orange equaling exactly 5ml. The amt u add to a 5ml sample is roughly 1/6th of amount in 30ml. If you add .1ml that is .6ml in a 30ml.
3. Repeat for as many flavor combos that you want to try. I suggest 5.Always keep 5ml as a base.
4. Always write everything down and mark each bottle with fingernail polish or markers to determine which is which.
5. Test each with as many friends as possible. Write down their responses.
6. If nothing is good its probably a weak idea to begin with, but if you have a good idea, then:
7. 1-2 will stand out. Make 30mls using the successful ideas and repeat the process.
8. By the time you have done this 3 times you will have experimented with 18 mixes. You know what doesn't work and the 2d go round will produce a leader and the 3rd round will have done some serious fine tuning.
9. At some point a serious vaper with a good build will say "Dude, Stop, you got it."
10. Don't stop. Build one more 30ml, reserve 5ml for a base and fine tune the rest to see if you can squeeze a little more goodness out of it that is superior to the base. You probably have something to be proud of Now.

If this sounds like a pain in the ass, remember you now have something your proud of and the process took 7 days or less. What I do then is debut the recipe in my house juice line and if it sells decently, keep it there but if sales rock and people start to rave, I pull it and try to market it in a glass bottle in a premium line. This is just my process and someone may say, "my way is better". I say "Great" I want to learn and any constructive ideas are appreciated. I hope this helps.

 

[Botboy141]

So no time for steeping or time to allow the juice to cure...Don't know about you but 99% of the juices I make taste quite differently after a month than they do after a day.

Outside of that, it's a very similar process to what I follow but I do my initial mix in 100ml, all of my testers in 15ml so I can break them down into 3mls to let people sample out of various types of equipment.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Nice, thanks Mixman.

 

[AmandaD]

Sounds good - thanks, Mixman!

 

[Mixman]

Botboy the steeping is an issue but what I have noticed is that if the flavor gets better then the improvements tend to get better as well. The process takes a week give or take and thats plenty of time to get an idea going. Tobacco may be the major exception to the rule though. As a practical matter it may take longer because as your filling orders your too busy to work on development till you get the orders filled etc. I am just suggesting a framework that has worked for me to help people stay orderly and follow a chemistry process that works in an artistic setting. Your right about one thing though, someday the flavor in 3rd place is going to shine bc a prolonged steep had a huge benefit etc. Hopefully the flavor that was best early on, steeped out as well. You can always save the marked samples and test them out later if you desire. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Botboy141]

Botboy the steeping is an issue but what I have noticed is that if the flavor gets better then the improvements tend to get better as well. The process takes a week give or take and thats plenty of time to get an idea going. Tobacco may be the major exception to the rule though. As a practical matter it may take longer because as your filling orders your too busy to work on development till you get the orders filled etc. I am just suggesting a framework that has worked for me to help people stay orderly and follow a chemistry process that works in an artistic setting. Your right about one thing though, someday the flavor in 3rd place is going to shine bc a prolonged steep had a huge benefit etc. Hopefully the flavor that was best early on, steeped out as well. You can always save the marked samples and test them out later if you desire. Thanks for the comment.

Absolutely, thanks for this write up. I guess it's kinda along the lines of what I've done just never put it into words. I can also say with relative accuracy, that more often than not, something that tastes good early on, usually tastes good or even better after an extended steep with some rare exceptions in my records.

The times when there was an exception to that, usually that was fixed with a simple additive or two (triacetin or citric acid) either to tone down a note that has become harsh after steep, or CA to make something that muddled after steep to keep popping in the end.

GLGL everyone in your mixing adventures!

 

[Smoky Blue]

i'd rather go a full month.. flavor fade is my biggest fear

 

[BigNasty]

I have had some flavors fade or meld into putrid hell.. but that is the risks.

 

[AmandaD]

My limes totally disappear in a couple of months - nada, zilch, nothing LOL

 

[Botboy141]

My limes totally disappear in a couple of months - nada, zilch, nothing LOL

Try adding 1% Citric Acid to any mix with lime in it. Should help to hold the lime up longer IME.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I have had some flavors fade or meld into putrid hell.. but that is the risks.

it might be the risk, but it would not fly if.. like the op is trying to say, to make a premium juice to sell..
i predict a lot of upset people when flavors fade.. :/ just my thoughts on it..

know your flavors and your juice.. 1 week won't cut it .. not for me.. some others might think so.. still..
why take that chance, unless you only care about that mighty $$..

 

[Mixman]

Smoky Blue: You miss my point. Im just suggesting a procedure to stay orderly in developing a flavor and rapidly maximizing its potential. Is everything perfect? No. Do I know everything? No again but if your new to this then I bet my framework will help some people instead of just Willy Nilly trying this, that and everything else. 7 days is just a number. Could be 3 days or 23 days, doesn't matter.

Do I care about money? Yes. Its how I make a living. Do I only care about money? No, Im pretty proud of the fact that some people think my juice tastes great and every 30ml bottle they buy of my juice is x number of packs of analogs that stay on the shelf. Psychic income I suppose matters a hell of a lot. And yeah when I walk in the back where the drippers are doing their thing with a bunch of 5mls of a new flavor I'm a little proud that half a dozen 20 somethings who live for flavor cant wait to try something new because they know it will be interesting and they are part of a process that works. BTW I learned the hard way that lime fades and a great key lime pie is off the shelf now because a few months later it morphed and that's my label on the bottles.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Smoky Blue: You miss my point. Im just suggesting a procedure to stay orderly in developing a flavor and rapidly maximizing its potential. Is everything perfect? No. Do I know everything? No again but if your new to this then I bet my framework will help some people instead of just Willy Nilly trying this, that and everything else. 7 days is just a number. Could be 3 days or 23 days, doesn't matter.

Do I care about money? Yes. Its how I make a living. Do I only care about money? No, Im pretty proud of the fact that some people think my juice tastes great and every 30ml bottle they buy of my juice is x number of packs of analogs that stay on the shelf. Psychic income I suppose matters a hell of a lot. And yeah when I walk in the back where the drippers are doing their thing with a bunch of 5mls of a new flavor I'm a little proud that half a dozen 20 somethings who live for flavor cant wait to try something new because they know it will be interesting and they are part of a process that works. BTW I learned the hard way that lime fades and a great key lime pie is off the shelf now because a few months later it morphed and that's my label on the bottles.

i do not think I missed your point..

i rather pointed out.. take time with your flavors.. and preferably, more than a week.. as your post now says..

 

[Mixman]

LOL but 95% plus of the time this framework works just fine and I believe will be of help to DIYers in keeping an orderly/organized process.

 

[Botboy141]

LOL but 95% plus of the time this framework works just fine and I believe will be of help to DIYers in keeping an orderly/organized process.

I agree with that 100%. It is a much better process than most folks use. You can do the same process and use a speed steep via 2 hours in an ultra sonic to speed things along, etc etc etc.

I won't market a juice unless I have let a bottle sit for 2 months. However, I might have decided after 3-4 weeks that I should be prepared to market it if it still tastes right after 2 months on the shelf.

If 3-4 months after it starts dying, I'd just pull the flavor from my line with an apology.

TBPH though, most people I've sold to in the past, my 15ml's don't survive more than 2 weeks anyways. lol

 

[Smoky Blue]

And this is why i say, get to know your flavors..

try them at a range of percentages..
spend time knowing how they behave, watch for that fade, watch for over powering or under flavoring.. or sheer nastiness.
just because it might taste good to you, doesnt mean the next person might like it.. or even taste it.

take cherry, for example..
some perceive it as a medicine type taste, some do get the cherry and others just can not taste it at all..

as far as this being a way to become a "framework" for someone to come in and make money off a juice.. no..
as far as anything else with this.. it helps to show how to organize, take notes.. and how to overcharge on juice..
you really need spend time to learn how your particular flavors can interact with each other..
it's that 5%, you need to watch for.. but you did a good write up.. looking forward to more of your advice and recipes..

just my thoughts..
i have been in tons of fb groups, on ecf, and a lot of the foreign ejuice recipe sites..
I have yet to see someone just mix all will nilly, without a process.
most people are told to try their flavors at low percentages and work up..
going by a standard flavor company chart helps, but in the end, it is up to the mixer to determine for his/her own self..
remember, even 1 drop of a flavor can and will change the outcome of any juice!
use a calculator, and always! write down notes..
seen awesome juices become lost, due to no notes, and slack notes.. never to be able to be made again..
make sure to have your juice tested, so that you can declare your juices safe to vape.. (try 130.00 per juice)
as it is, we all have till around next summer for the fda to start trying to limit us..
regulations are coming.. and I hope we are all ready.

 

[Mixman]

I didn't say anything about how to make money, much less overcharge on juice Smoky Blue. Im just talking about an orderly process that allows a DIY to make something for themselves that is premium and that they truly enjoy. Look at Baking. The best chocolate chip cookies do not come out of a bag but probably come out of an amateur home oven by someone who knows how to bake. She or he may only bake 2 kinds but to them they taste great. Is my process perfect? Nope, nothing man made ever is, but it works---alot. Its supposed to be fun but mixing is hard too and rather than getting frustrated I just suggested a process that will allow for experimentation till you get it right. BTW if the home DIY makes something great most of it will be gone pretty quick before it ever steeps to nothing. So, throw in a handful of dried sour cherries with the next cookie sheetfull or walnuts or maybe on a whim some figs. Who knows. But have fun always. P.S. Sometimes an idea is a stinker but it always draws a laugh as someone says "well that's one way not to make juice."

 

[Smoky Blue]

This is true, Mixman..

that was kind of my point to.. believe it or not..
mixing is! supposed to be fun.. either recreating juices from known drinks, candy cakes, fruits, etc..
or going completely off base, and yet still maintaining a bit of the fantasy.. as you say.. But have fun always!

it is also a big step in trying to produce juice that tastes like it came from a shop..
hate to say it, but even here locally, we have a b&m owner that says he has been mixing 5 years.. but yet it doesn't show it thru his juices..
most are single flavors.. a few 2 or 3 flavor recipes..
another one here, same thing, 5 years of mixing.. says add real sugar.. (what???? and clog my coils? mhmm yeah right!)

my point is first.. knowing single percentage uses for all your flavors and knowing what happens when you play with each one..
does it mean I am saying mine is better than yours? no.. but then I say this all the time..
know your flavor percentages.. where to start on a flavor.. the charts floating around are a general starting point, or ending point..
you might want a light peach or a heavy peach.. know the percents to get it there..
one thing is certain.. I got into this, because I wanted to know what was in it.. and who touched it..
knowing what I know.. do I buy juice? not often..

and you did bring up money, from the very first post..

yes if it is good, sure, sell it! my point is, get it tested, make sure you can back up your work that it is good juice and wont contain the harmful chemicals in it.. once the fda does their thing, make sure you can handle those fees too.. or I see a bleak future for all that want to sell their best creations..

 

[Mixman]

I see the mix-up. Yes I did bring up money. From my point of view it has to be good enough to sell or Im not doing a good job. I really was just trying to give DIYers a framework to work with flavors that would hopefully lead to something that tastes so good a vendor could sell it. Thats all. I just wanted to share a process that has served me well. Yes, you should know flavors and the %s that work best. For instance TFA Caramel Cappucino has its place but lol more than 2-3 drops in a 30ml and its too much for me. I have juice with 3 flavors and a juice with 13 and everything in between. Standalones have their place, principally menthol, blueberry, watermelon n strawberry continue to sell but the real mixers treat it like an art form and there may be 5 or more flavors all melded together into something really good. All Im suggesting is lets put some order in the process. You sound like you know what your doing. Best of Luck.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I see the mix-up. Yes I did bring up money. From my point of view it has to be good enough to sell or Im not doing a good job. I really was just trying to give DIYers a framework to work with flavors that would hopefully lead to something that tastes so good a vendor could sell it. Thats all. I just wanted to share a process that has served me well.

I am not knocking your process, mixman.. and yes, there are some out there that want to make quality juice, either to sell or personal use..
not everyone likes certain types of juice, too.. and yes, the first time it clicks that the juice is good.. everyone want to sell..
even if they do not admit it, it will cross minds and make sure you know who your friends are and who is not..

Yes, you should know flavors and the %s that work best. For instance TFA Caramel Cappucino has its place but lol more than 2-3 drops in a 30ml and its too much for me. I have juice with 3 flavors and a juice with 13 and everything in between. Standalones have their place, principally menthol, blueberry, watermelon n strawberry continue to sell but the real mixers treat it like an art form and there may be 5 or more flavors all melded together into something really good.

yes, all juices do have their own spot light..
when we talk about how many flavors a juice has (or doesnt) that is all fine.. I have one with 31 flavors.. lol..
but what we should be more concerned is on blending and standing out or something heavy and light..
this is where knowing your flavors comes "out to play".. this is what I like doing the best..

All Im suggesting is lets put some order in the process. You sound like you know what your doing. Best of Luck.

yes, working with just single flavors first is the best.. and I do believe or hope that is what I got out of your tutorial.. just put a bit differently..
you went ahead and started with 2 flavors.. nothing wrong with that.

all i did was expose how to work with those single flavors first.. before blending into a second, or a third.. finding your spot..
i try hard, mixman, and i love to talk about the process on how to make good juice.. sharing is half of it..
i am glad you posted this up, please don't take that I am not, and I am not picking yours apart..
but we get a lot of people that come here, and some use translators, others are just so new and they skim thru.. and thats ok too..
maybe they will glance over this topic and learn a bit new..

 

[Frankm]

Nice write up! Thanks for the tips