Just saw this today... Gottlieb is a worse enemy than we thought

[AndriaD]

I find this quite appalling, as I'm quite sure all of you will, too.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...l-e-cigarettes-off-the-market-citing-possible

Basically this asshat is saying that because teens vape, he's gonna make it so that NO ONE can vape. Fucking stupid, useless asshat. Really glad I have about 3.5 liters of nic in the freezer, and I guess I need to hurry up and get more, with a fucking moron like this in charge of the goddamned useless FDA.



Andria

 

[Rossum]

Let's put it in perspective: If it weren't for Gottlieb, vaping as we know it would have been gone as of last August.

Yes, he's rattling his saber. He's likely under immense pressure from some elements to do something.

 

[AndriaD]

Let's put it in perspective: If it weren't for Gottlieb, vaping as we know it would have been gone as of last August.

Yes, he's rattling his saber. He's likely under immense pressure from some elements to do something.

You may be right, but he's acting like a complete fool -- he's going to deny all vapers the right to vape, just because some brats are doing it? That is fucking STUPID; it is not the US government's place to police kids' behavior, it's those kids' PARENTS. He needs to butt the fuck OUT and go worry about some actual FOOD AND DRUGS.

Andria

 

[5150sick]

He hasn't done anything at all yet except talk.

There isn't even a current law being written that bans flavors in convenience stores.
That's because flavors are not banned from convenience stores.
The tobacco companies just decided to comply with a verbal request from the FDA.

In other words, they are playing ball.

He has stopped the worst of the worst of the candy labels but that was about a deemed "tobacco" product looking like a food product which was already a law from before eliquid was deemed as a "tobacco product".

I think he knows how to tell people what they want to hear without giving them anything at all.
Once Juul complies with whatever they decided to in the back room it will hopefully chill the loons out for a while.

 

[5150sick]

You may be right, but he's acting like a complete fool -- he's going to deny all vapers the right to vape, just because some brats are doing it? That is fucking STUPID; it is not the US government's place to police kids' behavior, it's those kids' PARENTS. He needs to butt the fuck OUT and go worry about some actual FOOD AND DRUGS.

Andria

The main HARM he is causing at the moment is the FDA's refusal to put out a statement on the harms of vaping compared to the harms of smoking.

Similar to what the UK has done.

They could tell adults that vaping will improve their chances of life over smoking and tell teens that vaping isn't good for them at the same time.

They need to lay out the truth and let the people decide like the UK did because everyone carries a truth detector in their pocket now called the smartphone,
The days of believing what the people on the TV wanted you to believe have been gone for 2 decades but they still try to pull the same shit.

Lying to teens about vaping is surely a good way to get them to try vaping.

 

[hellcatrydr]

That chit sucks Andria... but it's not impossible...
How are they gonna keep us from forming co-op's... or friends sending it in from outta state?

VU might even eventually consider a sub-forum for folks in vape-prohibitive states
to talk to & mebbe get a lil help from people in less restrictive states.

Think of it as the vape resistance...

.

 

[AndriaD]

That chit sucks Andria... but it's not impossible...
How are they gonna keep us from forming co-op's... or friends sending it in from outta state?

VU might even eventually consider a sub-forum for folks in vape-prohibitive states
to talk to & mebbe get a lil help from people in less restrictive states.

Think of it as the vape resistance...

.

You're totally right, and it's not really myself or a lot of the folks here at the forum that I'm really concerned about this harming, because I have about 3.5 liters of nic in the freezer, and I know that's actually a fairly small amount (though sufficient for my needs for probably 25 yrs!) compared to a lot of folks around here. But I really am worried about vaping becoming outright banned, for those who haven't yet switched, or for those super-busy folks who actually depend on "store-bought" vapes just to keep vaping.

And just the damned principal of the thing! Cigarettes and booze are still legal, though kids manage to get hold of those consistently -- where's the justice in that? And all those fucking "energy drinks" that teens chug down like mother's milk, loaded with caffeine and either sugar, or even worse, artificial sweetener. And also the INFURIATING principal of refusing vape vendors their fucking 1st amendment rights by banning them from TELLING THE TRUTH! about vaping.

And this total bullshit about "marketing to kids" -- NO reputable vape maker or vendor is doing that, and to imply that they are, just because kids do manage to get vapes -- that just STEAMS me! Most of the time, I rock along optimistically regarding vaping, and as I said, it's really not going to hurt ME even if it is banned... but idiots just piss me off, and for Gottlieb to even SAY such a thing in public, while NOT telling the truth about vaping...

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

And just the damned principal of the thing! Cigarettes and booze are still legal, though kids manage to get hold of those consistently -- where's the justice in that? And all those fucking "energy drinks" that teens chug down like mother's milk, loaded with caffeine and either sugar, or even worse, artificial sweetener. And also the INFURIATING principal of refusing vape vendors their fucking 1st amendment rights by banning them from TELLING THE TRUTH! about vaping.

This ^^^^^

 

[The Cromwell]

Let's put it in perspective: If it weren't for Gottlieb, vaping as we know it would have been gone as of last August.

Yes, he's rattling his saber. He's likely under immense pressure from some elements to do something.

Do not give Gottleib too much credit. The project of the deeming regs was too massive to implement in the original time frame.
We got a delay that is all. the sales of virtually all things vaping related is still scheduled to end in the USA on 8-8-2022 as I understand it.
And none of the 'pro vaping' bills did much to help even if they had passed.

And lets not forget the impact of the deeming regs on traditional smoking as well.
Their new traditional tobacco products would have to go thru the same PMTA process as vaping stuff if it was not on the market before 2-15-2007.
And BT has been pretty much fighting flavor bans all alone.
They have lots of flavored traditional tobacco products.
Snuff, Pipe tobacco, cigars, and little cigars, etc.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Juul is a 50 billion dollar company on the NASDAQ.

There is absolutely zero chance ANY federal regulations are going to stop that juggernaut.

#NoMoreDeemingRegsPanic!

 

[Huckleberried]

That chit sucks Andria... but it's not impossible...
How are they gonna keep us from forming co-op's... or friends sending it in from outta state?

VU might even eventually consider a sub-forum for folks in vape-prohibitive states
to talk to & mebbe get a lil help from people in less restrictive states.

Think of it as the vape resistance...

.

One of the good things around here, we all start getting to know each other well enough, we know we can cover each other, usually.

Earlier tonight, a guy was wanting help understanding an issue with coils he was buying. After several of us were talking with him, helping him maybe find a path that might suit him better, and a great deal on a new tank, he discovers they won't ship to his state. Me, I'd be willing to order the tank, send the tracking info to the guy so he'll be able to know that I've actually gotten it, then send it on to him. I'd do that for most anyone we run into here. I'm sure most of us would, honestly.

He is an example of what our future can hold. It's sad. It's ridiculous, and it's not right. But, he's also not giving up, and neither can we. There are so many more out there, just like him. They don't even know it, yet. What's worse, their obstacles could be far worse. We're lucky. And we have this forum. I hope they find us before the time comes, if it does.

Think of it as the vape resistance...

We are The Underground

 

[NGAHaze]

You know it's funny but I have heard some folks claim that ecigs had nothing to do with the historic drop in youth smoking rates. I call BS. The timeline plays out and if you were to query kids about it, I'm fairly certain that vaping would prove more popular than smoking. That in itself is a win in my book. Sure, that might come with a subset of kids that experiment with ecigs that might otherwise not have done so with cigarettes but that's pretty much true of anything shiny and new. From a risk perspective, there are lot of other issues in youth behavior that are are far more concerning than the possibility that they might try and/or use an ecig at some point.

I recently heard of a middle school in VA that had a 'pop quiz on health' over the PA for the entire school and the question was posed, "Which is worse: smoking or vaping"

You'd think it would be a no brainer right, but you'd be wrong. They actually said that vaping was worse!

How educators can get away with this kind of misinformation at, supposedly, a place of learning just boggles my mind.

 

[JuicyLucy]

You know it's funny but I have heard some folks claim that ecigs had nothing to do with the historic drop in youth smoking rates. I call BS.

ANTZ are claiming the billions spent on scaring kids away from tobacco worked, rather than admit kids are now vaping instead of smoking

I recently heard of a middle school in VA that had a 'pop quiz on health' over the PA for the entire school and the question was posed, "Which is worse: smoking or vaping"
You'd think it would be a no brainer right, but you'd be wrong. They actually said that vaping was worse!
How educators can get away with this kind of misinformation at, supposedly, a place of learning just boggles my mind.

Schools have and are lying to kids every day on all manner of subjects and spread misinformation or withhold critical information, so this shouldn't surprise anyone

Years ago, the stupid DARE people had my 10-year old afraid to even drink OJ

 

[NGAHaze]

ANTZ are claiming the billions spent on scaring kids away from tobacco worked, rather than admit kids are now vaping instead of smoking

Yet the rates stayed fairly consistent until the ecig entered the scene ... hmm, just a coincidence I'm sure.

Schools have and are lying to kids every day on all manner of subjects and spread misinformation or withhold critical information, so this shouldn't surprise anyone

Well, all my kids are four legged and furry so it did come as a surprise to me but as you mentioned, it even happened back when I was in school so I'm not sure why I thought it would be any better today even with something so obvious.

 

[Rossum]

Juul is a 50 billion dollar company on the NASDAQ.

Eh? Juul is privately held and not listed or traded on any exchange. Their "valuation" is based on a single transaction; the number of shares that Altria got for amount they invested.