Mods, low battery shut-off and chargers

[VapeOn1960]

For a long time now, all I had was a simple 2-bay charger with LEDs (nitecore Q2) It has worked fine for years... but it has no screen or info about the batteries. I have several mods (both external and internal batteries) They all shut down when the battery is low... but that's the problem (how low do they allow the battery to get before shutting off?) I try to re-charge batteries (18650) before they run out (Mooch advice... 20%) but sometimes forget. Some mods just have a battery icon with "bars", others show a % number. Someone a while back posted about being disappointed with Molicel 26A. One mod that I always use those in shows % (hey I'm 63... I forget to check) I have ran it down to 6% and it doesn't shut off. Recently, it got down to 2% and still had not shut off. This really got me thinking. Some other mods don't show % so how do I know? Anyway, I use the Molicell and also several Sony batteries. They all have a couple years or more use. The Molicel are not lasting as long now... and it's all my fault! I don't blame the batteries (damned mod goes down to 2% and won't shut off???)
Anyway, I now a have a real charger (nitecore D4 digital with all the features like checking/ monitoring batteries)
So... before you blame your batteries (or judge one brand again another) keep in mind what Battery Mooch suggests:
try to keep your batteries between 20-80% charged. (BTW, I haven't used the new charger yet... just read the manual so I may have to do some math if it just shows voltage)

 

[P2PLeon]

I got a four bay. Don’t know what make or number. But does show voltage.


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[CaFF]

Yeah, if the mod isn't showing the voltage...like a mech...I just take the battery out and pop it in the charger to see what it says.

I used to use a DVM to measure manually, but I'm getting old and lazy these days...

 

[VapeOn1960]

So assuming the only info I have is battery voltage (18650) how do use this to determine charge % ?
Is there a chart or something (or just do the math) ?

 

[P2PLeon]

3.2 is the minimum and there are ten .1 so you would have 70% left if the volts are reading 3.9

Or if the minimum is 3.6 then there are 6 points of movement. So between 16-17% per .1 drop of volts.

 

[Vape Fan]

I'd refer you to the specific battery's max low voltage. I see a lot of 2.8V even though most regulated mods cut-off is 3.2, with some at 3.0, so even if you run till you get 'low battery' or some such, it isn't as low as it will go. That's all the safety feature on regulated voltage I use - is the mod its self and than those % or numbered power levels on mods. When mine start getting close or below 5%, on some mods you can feel the weak vape, I'll swap. Even at the weak vape, the battery isn't max low. Its the mod saying no, not the battery. If the mods manual doesn't have it's low voltage cut -off, you could measure on your charger, or a reader.

This is what I like Escribe for. If the battery has a max low voltage of 2.8 but the mod cut off is 3.2, I'll lower lower the cut-off to 3.0. I like the run time.

On regulated I don't check the voltage mid stream to try not to go past a certain level. I just change them when I see I'm not going to get but a few more mins of vape for that charge. I don't feel like I'm getting less battery life for not letting them go past 20%. I have some I've used for 18 months or longer. Batteries are cheap.

If your only vaping 20%-80% your missing out on about 30-35% run time. Which means your using the battery door more and charger more. For the batteries I think one complete charge = a cycle, not partial charging - but you can look that up if interested.
If every time it's on a charger is a cycle, and you run 20-80%.........30-35% more cycles?

 

[VapeOn1960]

If your only vaping 20%-80% your missing out on about 30-35% run time. Which means your using the battery door more and charger more. For the batteries I think one complete charge = a cycle, not partial charging - but you can look that up if interested.
If every time it's on a charger is a cycle, and you run 20-80%.........30-35% more cycles?

That's a good point (and something I've wondered about for a long time)
On a sidenote: mods with internal batteries means I have no way to check battery voltage (like putting an external battery in a charger)
Also, I have noticed (and all my mods are regulated) that when the battery(s) get low the vape does seem weaker.

 

[Vape Fan]

Never tried it, but on built in, atty with atomizer but no coil.
Connect voltage reader leads to each post. Push the button.
IMO they're like a disposables big brother, comfortable use till it doesn't.

 

[eSMOKA]

Also, I have noticed (and all my mods are regulated) that when the battery(s) get low the vape does seem weaker.

If the mods that get weaker as the battery drains even when the battery has plenty of charge left, it's prolly because those mods have no step-up/boost, only step-down/buck (this is getting too common anymore and is criminal IMHO).

I avoid mods without step-up like the plague. As a higher ohm vaper, I need step-up otherwise it's like vaping on a mech before long. Only way to not notice a mod not having step-up is to vape at roughly 0.35 ohms or lower (that's the simple answer, a general rule of thumb), which is way lower ohms than I vape.

If you mean that vape gets weak only when the battery gets really low, like 3.3v or less, then that's normal even on mods with step-up.

 

[Vesuvius]

For a long time now, all I had was a simple 2-bay charger with LEDs (nitecore Q2) It has worked fine for years... but it has no screen or info about the batteries. I have several mods (both external and internal batteries) They all shut down when the battery is low... but that's the problem (how low do they allow the battery to get before shutting off?) I try to re-charge batteries (18650) before they run out (Mooch advice... 20%) but sometimes forget. Some mods just have a battery icon with "bars", others show a % number. Someone a while back posted about being disappointed with Molicel 26A. One mod that I always use those in shows % (hey I'm 63... I forget to check) I have ran it down to 6% and it doesn't shut off. Recently, it got down to 2% and still had not shut off. This really got me thinking. Some other mods don't show % so how do I know? Anyway, I use the Molicell and also several Sony batteries. They all have a couple years or more use. The Molicel are not lasting as long now... and it's all my fault! I don't blame the batteries (damned mod goes down to 2% and won't shut off???)
Anyway, I now a have a real charger (nitecore D4 digital with all the features like checking/ monitoring batteries)
So... before you blame your batteries (or judge one brand again another) keep in mind what Battery Mooch suggests:
try to keep your batteries between 20-80% charged. (BTW, I haven't used the new charger yet... just read the manual so I may have to do some math if it just shows voltage)

If you are questioning the reliability of your mods battery percentage then cross check them with the charger and see if the percentage reading on your mod at 20% matches what the Nitcore is saying. The cutoff on a P26A is 2.5 volts I believe but these are unprotected cells so its pretty important to know how low your 18650 is getting. I only let mine get down to around 3.2 volts before I switch them out.

I replaced my VTC5’s with Molicel P28A and have been pretty happy with them. Last me all day at work running two married P28’s in a Snowwolf and a full charge. Typically I don’t need to switch them out with the other married pair until evening. I also change mine out before any device tells me I should and I have not noticed any difference in the vape when mine are getting low on a good regulated mod.

Mooch has been one of the more important/influential people in the community when it comes to battery saftey and I have never strayed from what I learned from him years ago when it came to these batteries. I have always been pretty strict with them and never had an issue. I have never let one get too low before recharging, I let them rest before or after charging, I always use the same batteries in the same devices and keep sets married. Over discharging should be avoided period. It puts stress on them, go through chemical changes and affects life span. My own opinion is follow Mooch’s guidelines when using them. I get it about forgetting or whatever and don’t mean to come off a certain way but the more one of these is overcharged or over discharged the more chances for issues and hopefully not one that will hurt anybody.

Again, try cross checking with your charger and see if your mod is lying to you or to get a rough Idea with ones that show only a battery image with a level and not the actual percentage.

 

[VapeOn1960]

If you mean that vape gets weak only when the battery gets really low, like 3.3v or less, then that's normal even on mods with step-up.

Yes, that is what I meant.

If you are questioning the reliability of your mods battery percentage then cross check them with the charger and see if the percentage reading on your mod at 20% matches what the Nitcore is saying. The cutoff on a P26A is 2.5 volts I believe but these are unprotected cells so its pretty important to know how low your 18650 is getting. I only let mine get down to around 3.2 volts before I switch them out.

That is good news... I've been watching the volts on my new charger and I think 3.2 volts is the lowest I've seen. I love this new charger (besides seeing the progress and volts, it charges at 0.750 A... nice and slow)