Oxidized NIcotine Answer

[Vaperstek]

someone recently asked the question. "Why would anyone want to buy oxidized nic"?

Answer: Because our premium nicotine was found to be "TOO CLEAN" for some people, especially those people doing tobaccos, and they wanted more of a "BITE". I have got nicotine from almost everyone in the 5 years or so I have been making E-liquid, and I can tell you that at no time have I ever NOT received "OXIDIZED NICOTINE" from any of those vendors, and from those I have not ordered nicotine from, I have seen pictures and anecdotal evidence, as well as read reviews to suggest that they also have " OXIDIZED NICOTINE" slip through, and it is not always a choice that someone made, but it's just the way it is.
Our TH nicotine which has some oxidation is cut under the same environmental conditions as our premium nicotine, and while it may be oxidized some, is still very "CLEAN" tasting,very little harsh after-taste, or feels like their is a " coating " on the inside of the mouth. Oxidized and Clean are 2 different issues I believe. You can have Oxidized dirty nicotine, and you can have Clean Oxidized nicotine. They will be different in how they taste and feel in the palate.
Again, to answer your question, most are tobacco users.

 

[wllmc]

Oxidized and Clean are 2 different issues I believe. You can have Oxidized dirty nicotine, and you can have Clean Oxidized nicotine. They will be different in how they taste and feel in the palate.

yes, yes and yes. quoting because I thought this part needed to be said again.

 

[Mattp169]

ok so even though this is an old thread Im hoping @Vaperstek will explain more

your saying TH nic is clean nic that is oxidize versus dirty oxidize nic,

so does that mean oxygen is what actually adds TH?

 

[Vaperstek]

Yes Matt... Although dirty starting material adds TH, oxidation does as well.

 

[Mattp169]

is there a difference in shelf life between the regular nic and the th nic

 

[Huckleberried]

is there a difference in shelf life between the regular nic and the th nic

I can't answer for Kevin, but not in my own experience.

 

[MrScaryZ]

someone recently asked the question. "Why would anyone want to buy oxidized nic"?

Answer: Because our premium nicotine was found to be "TOO CLEAN" for some people, especially those people doing tobaccos, and they wanted more of a "BITE". I have got nicotine from almost everyone in the 5 years or so I have been making E-liquid, and I can tell you that at no time have I ever NOT received "OXIDIZED NICOTINE" from any of those vendors, and from those I have not ordered nicotine from, I have seen pictures and anecdotal evidence, as well as read reviews to suggest that they also have " OXIDIZED NICOTINE" slip through, and it is not always a choice that someone made, but it's just the way it is.
Our TH nicotine which has some oxidation is cut under the same environmental conditions as our premium nicotine, and while it may be oxidized some, is still very "CLEAN" tasting,very little harsh after-taste, or feels like their is a " coating " on the inside of the mouth. Oxidized and Clean are 2 different issues I believe. You can have Oxidized dirty nicotine, and you can have Clean Oxidized nicotine. They will be different in how they taste and feel in the palate.
Again, to answer your question, most are tobacco users.

As Much as I want to believe this as it sure sounds logical I have yet to experince it.. Ever considered that its possible that if you tell enough people this they will start to believe it and it takes on its own life? I would love to experience it

 

[Huckleberried]

Having experienced nic from ECX, WL, Nude Nic, RTS and Vaporstek, I've personally noticed a difference in my finished product. Between VT regular nic and VT TH nic, I only get a slight difference in TH, but my flavors are just as good and my nic is still crystal clear. VT is the nic for me.

If you want to experience it yourself, get some.

 

[Time]

Ever considered that its possible that if you tell enough people this they will start to believe it and it takes on its own life?

You mean it might taste better just because people believe it tastes better?

 

[MrScaryZ]

Yes mass induced hysteria. Remember war of the worlds

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

 

[MrScaryZ]

You mean it might taste better just because people believe it tastes better?

Yes wishing it into existence

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

 

[Time]

Yes wishing it into existence

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

I agree.

 

[Jimi D]

For me, oxidized nic has less TH but with more off taste. Chemnovatic removes more suspended matter from the nic they receive. So, the TH nic would be cleaner than Alchem and Wizard Labs. My choices of nic are Chemnovatic, and Carolina Xtract. Both have no off taste for me. My boys enjoy heavy TH and I buy them the Nicotine Labs nic. My wife enjoys Chemnovatic, because of her high level of 18 mg. It's the best I can use without muting flavor. It's all personal preference, and how high the nic level is used.

 

[Time]

Chemnovatic removes more suspended matter from the nic they receive.

Can you show me where Chemnovatic claims to do that, I can't find it?

 

[MrScaryZ]

What is the suspended matter that increases throat hit?

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

 

[Jimi D]

Can you show me where Chemnovatic claims to do that, I can't find it?

Just give them a call, and they'll answer your questions.

 

[Jimi D]

What is the suspended matter that increases throat hit?

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

Impurities. Hexane gives one hell of a mule kick

 

[Time]

Just give them a call, and they'll answer your questions.

Call Poland? I think I'll just email them. Did Chemnovatic tell you they remove more suspended matter from the nic they receive?

I wonder why they don't just have the extractor do it while the nic is still at the extractor's lab.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Impurities. Hexane gives one hell of a mule kick

Hexane? dear god what the heck.. So if I want a throat hit does FA now have a Hexane additive

 

[NGAHaze]

Hexane? dear god what the heck.. So if I want a throat hit does FA now have a Hexane additive

lol, I was wondering how hexane got into the mix ... I was under the impression that commercial extractions use high pressure distillation to extract the nicotine not a solvent based extraction.

 

[MrScaryZ]

lol, I was wondering how hexane got into the mix ... I was under the impression that commercial extractions use high pressure distillation to extract the nicotine not a solvent based extraction.

i kept thinking Erin Brokovich jesus hexane my god!!

 

[Jimi D]

lol, I was wondering how hexane got into the mix ... I was under the impression that commercial extractions use high pressure distillation to extract the nicotine not a solvent based extraction.

Carolina Xtract extracts this way.

 

[Time]

Chemnovatic is not an extractor for USP Grade nic as far as I can tell. I don't think they can still call their nic USP grade if it has been further processed by them. It seems way more likely that they source USP Grade nic from a company that has a USP Grade approved lab.

In short, Chemnovatic can't reprocess USP nic and it still be USP Grade unless their lab is approved as such. And if you're going to invest in a USP grade approved lab, you'll want to cater to more than eliquid.

I highly doubt they are removing anything. I think it's ready when they get it.

 

[Vaperstek]

WOW for someone who has been vaping for a year, you are in the " KNOW".... I have been to their facility and yes they do Process what they receive.
They dont just send it out as they have received it.

The suspended matter that is spoken of is non-existent. They remove left over "extraction material" from the nicotine. The stuff you smell when you buy other nics and it makes it smell like ant killer. that is some of the stuff they remove.

You would be better off time, if you spent your time working on other things in your life. INstead of just assuming. You know what they say about assuming.

 

[freemind]

So what are you getting at @Vaperstek ? Is nicotine chemically extracted, or mechanically extracted?

If chemicals other than PG or VG are used, what are they?

 

[Jimi D]

WOW for someone who has been vaping for a year, you are in the " KNOW".... I have been to their facility and yes they do Process what they receive.
They dont just send it out as they have received it.

The suspended matter that is spoken of is non-existent. They remove left over "extraction material" from the nicotine. The stuff you smell when you buy other nics and it makes it smell like ant killer. that is some of the stuff they remove.

You would be better off time, if you spent your time working on other things in your life. INstead of just assuming. You know what they say about assuming.

You tell em' Kevin ! LOL

 

[Time]

WOW for someone who has been vaping for a year, you are in the " KNOW".... I have been to their facility and yes they do Process what they receive.
They dont just send it out as they have received it.

The suspended matter that is spoken of is non-existent. They remove left over "extraction material" from the nicotine. The stuff you smell when you buy other nics and it makes it smell like ant killer. that is some of the stuff they remove.

You would be better off time, if you spent your time working on other things in your life. INstead of just assuming. You know what they say about assuming.

And this is just the word of guy trying to sell nic. The same guy that claimed to intentionally oxidize nic and sell it at a lower cost.

Sorry Kevin, when I see a guy make ridiculous claims about "engineering" nic to oxidize it so he can sell it at a loss, I'm not inclined to believe the rest of his exceptional claims. In other words, a person that makes such sensational and obviously false claims to sell his oxidized nic would likely make sensational and false claims to sell nic at a premium.

I don't assume anything. The only company that extracts USP grade nicotine in the EU is a German company CNT(Contraf-Nicotex-Tobacco GmbH) in partnership with Switzerland’s Siegfried Holding AG. The rest(U.S, EU, India, China owned companies) extract in India. CNT's nicotine is extracted 40% in India, where the tobacco is grown, and then shipped to Switzerland where it is further extracted to it's final USP grade by Siegfried.

CNT provides over half of the worlds USP grade nicotine including that used in the ecig market. More than that, CNT has recently partnered(and created) with Nerudia. http://nerudia.com/products-services/.

Now, I could go on to show the relationships of other nicotine brands, suppliers and extractors like Nicselect. But, CNT is the likely source of Chemnovatic nic as it is the only USP grade extractor that I could find that extracts outside of India. CNT has very high quality nicotine. The only problem is, it is not unique by vendor. Over 50% of the USP grade nic on the market is CNT nic. There is no real difference in the purity claims of CNT nic at 99.9% and Chemnovatic as per the COA(certificate of analysis). I'd be interested in what CNT would have to say about what "suspended matter" you think Chemnovatic is removing. Your claims of a unique source of nicotine are nothing but hype and marketing. Your claims are just claims. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. Especially after you claim to intentionally oxidize nicotine.

There is nothing unique about Vaperstek nicotine other than the marketing. This is just part of what I know about the nicotine Industry. After your TH nic claims some months ago, I decided to look into the rest of your claims. I'm fairly thorough when I research. So, if you wish to continue the discussion, by all means, continue.

I have links to the information I've posted thus far if requested.

 

[Time]

The suspended matter that is spoken of is non-existent. They remove left over "extraction material" from the nicotine. The stuff you smell when you buy other nics and it makes it smell like ant killer. that is some of the stuff they remove.

Chemnovatic makes no such claim to prospective vendors on their website.

http://chemnovatic.com/

You'd think that would be something they would highlight to encourage vendors but we only hear it from Kevin. No other Chemnovatic vendor makes the claim that I have seen.

 

[Jimi D]

Chemnovatic makes no such claim to prospective vendors on their website.

http://chemnovatic.com/

You'd think that would be something they would highlight to encourage vendors but we only hear it from Kevin. No other Chemnovatic vendor makes the claim that I have seen.

Chemnovatic had changed their website. I remember what I read over a year ago dude.

 

[Time]

Chemnovatic had changed their website. I remember what I read over a year ago dude.

Interesting.

So they drop the very thing that sets them apart from any other supplier from their website? That just doesn't add up. What's the point of spending all the money removing "suspended matter" in already high grade nicotine and then not tell anybody? That type of commitment is expensive.

I have no idea what you read or didn't read but somebody is pulling somebodies leg.

 

[MrScaryZ]

 

[Time]

I'm not sure that giving oneself the title of "Lead Chemist" in their own company qualifies as actually being a chemist. At least, the guy not knowing to start out using argon in his mixing operation leads me to believe the "chemist" part is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Jimi D]

@Time I have no idea as well. E-mail them. Hopefully you'll get some answers.

 

[Jimi D]

@Time By typing Chemnovatic nicotine suspended on google, this comes up.

Pure Nicotine 99,9% (USP/EP): PureNic 99+ ... - chemnovatic
chemnovatic.com/product/pure-nic-99/
Appearance: colourless, clear, free from suspended matter ... Chemnovatic nicotineis a natural product extracted from Tobacco leaves and meets all the ...

 

[Time]

@Time By typing Chemnovatic nicotine suspended on google, this comes up.

Pure Nicotine 99,9% (USP/EP): PureNic 99+ ... - chemnovatic
chemnovatic.com/product/pure-nic-99/
Appearance: colourless, clear, free from suspended matter ... Chemnovatic nicotineis a natural product extracted from Tobacco leaves and meets all the ...

Yeah, that's on their web site now. It means you can't see anything floating in it when you look at it.

No USP grade nicotine, even the China and India stuff, has floaties in it.

I'm looking for something from chemnovatic that backs up the claims from Kevin and yourself that they do a removal of "extraction material", "suspended materials", a "second wash", a "final wash that no one else does", "cleanest nic out there" or other such claims.

Kevin saying that they "do process what they receive. They don't just send it out as they received it", is misleading. I'm sure they do "process" what they receive. They put it in smaller bottles. They mix some with base. They do lots of "processing". But I see nothing that says they do any of the things Kevin has claimed for cleaner nic. No "final wash", so to speak.

More directly, I'm saying his claims are likely the same bullshit as claiming he "engineered some of the nicotine to have bite."

 

[Vaperstek]

businesses often operate and lose money on some things, get over it already. I sell Nic at a loss, it is a write-off, plain and simple. I will not get into a war of words or facts with you while you try to prove that a nicotine which you, time, have never bought to my knowledge, just to try and "CATCH" me or chemnovatic doing something " Against the better good for vaping".

I do not know how they perform the final "wash", and I have an idea of what I believe they are removing, but that's only my opinion. It is why our nicotine is quickly making it's way into the E-liquid manufacturing and vaping industry.

You do not have to believe it, you have not even bought any, and I did use o2 to oxidize nicotine and sell, and at a loss.
I have had the german nicotine.,Total waste of money for me. smelled like straight up kerosene.

And now a warning time. If you keep only spewing your opinion, without any facts to back up any of what you say, and can not be civil about the discussion, I will have no choice but to ban you from here.

You spew hatred and envy against a nicotine which you have never even tried. (Face Palm)

 

[MrScaryZ]

businesses often operate and lose money on some things, get over it already. I sell Nic at a loss, it is a write-off, plain and simple. I will not get into a war of words or facts with you while you try to prove that a nicotine which you, time, have never bought to my knowledge, just to try and "CATCH" me or chemnovatic doing something " Against the better good for vaping".

I do not know how they perform the final "wash", and I have an idea of what I believe they are removing, but that's only my opinion. It is why our nicotine is quickly making it's way into the E-liquid manufacturing and vaping industry.

You do not have to believe it, you have not even bought any, and I did use o2 to oxidize nicotine and sell, and at a loss.
I have had the german nicotine.,Total waste of money for me. smelled like straight up kerosene.

And now a warning time. If you keep only spewing your opinion, without any facts to back up any of what you say, and can not be civil about the discussion, I will have no choice but to ban you from here.

You spew hatred and envy against a nicotine which you have never even tried. (Face Palm)

I really hate to get involved in such a mess but now you are saying you are going to ban people because your definition of "Civil" is not met? It surely would seem that as much misinformation their is about Throat Hit nicotine your claim that you have visited their facilities and now you are saying you have added O2 into the Nicotine but you have no idea how any of it works.? The Burden of proof of a product and a description should come from the source and if a person is peddling any product I would surely hope they had the literature to back such a claim...

 

[Time]

businesses often operate and lose money on some things, get over it already. I sell Nic at a loss, it is a write-off, plain and simple. I will not get into a war of words or facts with you while you try to prove that a nicotine which you, time, have never bought to my knowledge, just to try and "CATCH" me or chemnovatic doing something " Against the better good for vaping".

First off, I've never bought a bunch of things that I have poor opinions of. Your nicotine is is not alone in that regard. For instance, I've never bought a pony just because the owner claimed the pony could outrun Seabiscuit. I do my best to be an informed consumer, that's why I'm here at VU. That's why I've researched your claims and not just taken them at face value. I do this before I spend my money. I don't need to buy the pony to know that it can't outrun Seabiscuit. I also don't need to buy your nicotine to know that your TH nicotine is oxidized and the only thing unique about the "Premium" is the marketing and hype.

I do not know how they perform the final "wash", and I have an idea of what I believe they are removing, but that's only my opinion. It is why our nicotine is quickly making it's way into the E-liquid manufacturing and vaping industry.

You can't even show that they do a final "wash" or that they are removing anything. Chemnovatic makes no such claim. No other chemnovatic vendor makes the claim. Your the only one that makes the claim. There was a statement by a "kurt" over at ecf that opined, "I think whoever makes this nic must do a finishing distillation after extraction,".

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/nicotine-comparisons.298547/page-93

It was then a few weeks later that you made your claim. "Organic, nicotine extraction. Goes through a final" wash" that as Far as I know no other nicotine company does, since it is a proprietary method."

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...uid-and-eu-nicotine-now-on-ecf.555275/page-25

So, it appears that someone guessed about it and it sounded good so you ran with it. The date stamps are in the posts.

Regardless, you make the claims and then hide behind words like "proprietary" without backing them up.

You do not have to believe it, you have not even bought any, and I did use o2 to oxidize nicotine and sell, and at a loss.
I have had the german nicotine.,Total waste of money for me. smelled like straight up kerosene.

No, I don't have to believe it. I also read this from billherbst at ECF. "Kevin, the owner of VT, told me that his Dirty nic started out as a regular batch gone slightly wrong, so he was selling it off at a steeply reduced price (originally $35/liter) to keep from wasting it."

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/nicotine-comparisons.298547/page-104

I'm sure you did use O2 and oxidize some nic. I don't believe for a second it was intentional.

And now a warning time. If you keep only spewing your opinion, without any facts to back up any of what you say, and can not be civil about the discussion, I will have no choice but to ban you from here.

Wait,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what?

So you can make claims based on your opinion(I do not know how they perform the final "wash", and I have an idea of what I believe they are removing, but that's only my opinion.) and not backed up by anything to sell your wares, which is what I've been saying all along, but you threaten to ban me? You are the one with no facts, man. You are the one making claims to sell your nicotine without any facts to back them up. I wouldn't even be here except that people keep asking on the forum what gives your TH nic throat hit. You get all butthurt because I tell them it's oxidized. It made you mad that I was telling them the truth.

I have facts. The facts that matter. The fact is, your claims cannot be verified. They only come from you. This lack of verification along with your claims of intentionally oxidizing nic, lead me to believe your claims are not true.

Feel free to ban me from your thread. As a consumer, I come here to VU to be informed. I also inform other consumers. I will still tell others that your "TH" is oxidized and that there is nothing backing up your claims for your "premium". I don't care if you convince people that your nic is made from the tears of unicorns. I will simply continue to say there is no such thing as unicorns.

 

[freemind]

I think at this point @Vaperstek I would either come clean or drop it. You are looking like a douch as a vendor here at this point.

I don't see anything wrong with someone expressing their opinion. And one you have had ample opportunity to prove otherwise.

Time is just showing everyone what he can see and prove, not just asking for everyone to take his opinion as gospel. On the other hand, what have you shown us at this point?

 

[Vaperstek]

I will state one last time. The nicotine that chemovatic uses goes through a final wash, rinse, whatever you want to call it, before coming to me. I do not know details, they do not discuss it with me, only that it is done. If you want to know more, ask them. Until time actually purchases some nicotine his points are moot to me. and as a person as busy as myself, I do not have time to chase assumptions.

I have always been up front and have always sent out quality product. One person accuses me of selling a not so good product and has never tried it.. And I have to now prove my product is good? The product is excellent and speaks for itself in the reviews. I will no longer waste time on this subject.What I have shown to the vendors and customers I deal with who use our nicotine is it is very,very clean, I would say the cleanest on the market. The product speaks for itself.

 

[freemind]

I do not know details, they do not discuss it with me, only that it is done. If you want to know more, ask them.

I was under the impression from what you said, that you DID know. You claimed to tour the place and understand their process.

 

[Time]

It's washed with the tears of unicorns.

I have decided to mistreat some of the horses I sell. You know, for those people that like horses that "kick" and "bite". And then sell them for 1/4 of their original worth. It seems like a good business model.

Our Premium Nicotine with a Kick, for those of you who like a "BITE."

 

[Vaperstek]

I was under the impression from what you said, that you DID know. You claimed to tour the place and understand their process.

I did tour, but since it is a proprietary process, I did not see it,.

 

[freemind]

I did tour, but since it is a proprietary process, I did not see it,.

That would make me very uneasy about the product I was being sold, and reselling myself. At that point, you are only taking the word of someone, and we all know people can and do lie.

From my own experience, I have toured two places in my life that have proprietary processes. I had to sign paperwork to the effect that I could NOT discuss what I saw with media, or anyone else for that matter. I could not take pictures or even have a cell phone in my possession on the property. And yes, I was searched.

So I guess my point is, to have faith in what I am selling, to be as great as I claim it is, I would want to know what I am actually selling.

 

[Mattp169]

TBH
i read chemovatics website and its confusing.
they say they get highest grade supplies from various sources
then in their FAQ says the manufacturer everything they sell and since they sell bottles and molinberry flavorings, thats not an entirely true statement

so base don their own website...I can not tell you if they extract nicotine themselves, or repackage it or what they actually do. Now they show photos of lab equipment for dispensing, but I see no photos of them extracting or anything else.

SO my basic feel from their website is
they get pure nic, pure vg and pg
they get moliberry flavours
they buy bottles etc
then they just process the whole thing into wares for the vaping industry.

i see no t hing claiming they filter or do anything else to the raw materials they use....but the sight is misleading and their are probably translation isssues along with marketing translation errors

 

[Vaperstek]

Well, for those of you worried about quality, realize their quality standards are based on european standards, which in many cases are stricter than ours.

 

[Huckleberried]

I"m a frequent flyer of Vaperstek.

 

[freemind]

I don't think Time is a troll. All he did was ask for information, and share what he could find out on his own.

 

[freemind]

What if he was? What would we do about it other than harp about it?

No one is shutting him down or taking him to task about anything he has said.

 

[Huckleberried]

This is his sub-forum.