PG substitute

[Irving Bolanos]

Hello all so i have mad very little posts here but thanks to HIC i was able to finally get some diy mixes i liked turns out my whole problem was the fact that i was using cheap flavorings and honestly flavor art is the way to go imo

But to the purpose of my post due to all the studies ion ecigs and "toxicity" from them i have been bashed over and over by my sister and mother about quitting ecigs period but to me ecigs are more than an addiction its a hobby it is something i enjoy doing so in order to semi appease them i informed them that A. im not using B.nichrome wire, C.im not using any sweetners, EM, Koolada etc. in my eliquids(so far i havent really needed them anyways) D. PG degradation at high temperatures is not a sure thing at this point(last time i looked it up 1yr ago)

Unfortunately i have recently been diagnosed with thyroid nodules and i have been referred to MD Anderson Cancer research center to see what is up with my thyroid nodules(may be cancer but low probability) [BTW just to be clear I IN NO WAY BELIEVE THAT EVEN IF I HAVE CANCER THAT IS IT RELATED TO MY ECIG)

But due to limited knowledge and research for safety purposes i feel like i can potentially reduce any unknown negative factors in vaping by replacing PG

Online ive seen many methods and would like yalls opinion currently i saw someones post on another competitor forum(will not mention name for fear of being banned) stating that they use a "dilution" of
Dilution recipe (NOT MY RECIPE)
45% DW or Distilled water
45% Normal saline(0.9% sodium in DW )
10% Grain alcohol(90% alcohol/180 proof/everclear)

so in their batches they say they use 80% VG + 20% (flavoring +dilution mixture) So far i feel like i have lost 98% of flavor BUT i use 90% DW and 10%grain alcohol(i do not have normal saline yet)

does anyone have experience with DW?
Are you willing to share the secret with me?
will the 0.9% saline solution really make a difference?

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[lirruping]

No secret answers from this corner, however, in my short experience making juice, I have only used VG + 10-15% DW as a base--with from 3-10% FA flavoring--and though I've had some slight wicking problems (with cotton only & which may be attributable to wildly changing air pressure where I live), I don't feel like the flavor suffers a bit, compared to, say, vendor juices.

I did make up a 30/70 PG/VG base recently, but have yet to mix flavor into it. I will be interested to see if the flavor changes.

From what I've read, the saline is a flavor booster of sorts (fruits in particular? Not totally sure), but I'm also curious about what impact the grain alcohol or vodka has.

 

[Irving Bolanos]

well if i remember correctly grain alcohol boosts throat hit

 

[AmandaD]

I was using up to 10% saline solution for a while to try and reduce dryness. All it did was rot my coils quickly LOL

 

[lirruping]

I was using up to 10% saline solution for a while to try and reduce dryness. All it did was rot my coils quickly LOL

Oh yeah, I remember reading about adding saline to reduce dryness, now that you mention it. It makes sense that saline (salt, a mineral) would leave deposits on your coils. I think the word might be (non) "voluble" - as in, it doesn't vaporize. And anything in there that doesn't vaporize is going to stay where it is.

 

[Irving Bolanos]

I was using up to 10% saline solution for a while to try and reduce dryness. All it did was rot my coils quickly LOL

HOLY FUCK DUDE PARDON MY FRENCH BUT 10 FKING PERCENT.... no wonder it was "rotting"(rusting) your coils .... the ocean is 3.5% different salts according to wikipedia... dammmmmm!!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater :l

 

[AmandaD]

HOLY FUCK DUDE PARDON MY FRENCH BUT 10 FKING PERCENT.... no wonder it was "rotting"(rusting) your coils .... the ocean is 3.5% different salts according to wikipedia... dammmmmm!!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater :l

Well, in fairness I was using less than 10% of a 10% solution - not that much LOL

 

[Nanfoe]

Hello all so i have mad very little posts here but thanks to HIC i was able to finally get some diy mixes i liked turns out my whole problem was the fact that i was using cheap flavorings and honestly flavor art is the way to go imo

But to the purpose of my post due to all the studies ion ecigs and "toxicity" from them i have been bashed over and over by my sister and mother about quitting ecigs period but to me ecigs are more than an addiction its a hobby it is something i enjoy doing so in order to semi appease them i informed them that A. im not using B.nichrome wire, C.im not using any sweetners, EM, Koolada etc. in my eliquids(so far i havent really needed them anyways) D. PG degradation at high temperatures is not a sure thing at this point(last time i looked it up 1yr ago)

Unfortunately i have recently been diagnosed with thyroid nodules and i have been referred to MD Anderson Cancer research center to see what is up with my thyroid nodules(may be cancer but low probability) [BTW just to be clear I IN NO WAY BELIEVE THAT EVEN IF I HAVE CANCER THAT IS IT RELATED TO MY ECIG)

But due to limited knowledge and research for safety purposes i feel like i can potentially reduce any unknown negative factors in vaping by replacing PG

Online ive seen many methods and would like yalls opinion currently i saw someones post on another competitor forum(will not mention name for fear of being banned) stating that they use a "dilution" of
Dilution recipe (NOT MY RECIPE)
45% DW or Distilled water
45% Normal saline(0.9% sodium in DW )
10% Grain alcohol(90% alcohol/180 proof/everclear)

so in their batches they say they use 80% VG + 20% (flavoring +dilution mixture) So far i feel like i have lost 98% of flavor BUT i use 90% DW and 10%grain alcohol(i do not have normal saline yet)

does anyone have experience with DW?
Are you willing to share the secret with me?
will the 0.9% saline solution really make a difference?

Any help is greatly appreciated

Mr.B I recommend you Google " Rick Simpson Oil " you'll be glad you did.

 

[drkPu1se]

I'm not too sure about this change from PG. I'm no expert, but you actually try vaping 100 PG for like a week or so. I remember looking into this a bit because I was starting to worry about my own health. I was starting to develop similar symptoms of hypothyroidism. My mother suffers from it, so I know what a large amount of the symptoms are already. Its like diabetes with a vengeance. Sort of. Anyways... What does VG breaks down to when taken in your system? Glucose. What is Glucose? Sugar pretty much. See if that helps. It did me. I still haven't gone to check what's wrong with me but if I feel better then no big deal. I do high VG every once in a while. Plus... I'm in it for the throat hit too not just the flavor ^.^

 

[lirruping]

I'm not too sure about this change from PG. I'm no expert, but you actually try vaping 100 PG for like a week or so. I remember looking into this a bit because I was starting to worry about my own health. I was starting to develop similar symptoms of hypothyroidism. My mother suffers from it, so I know what a large amount of the symptoms are already. Its like diabetes with a vengeance. Sort of. Anyways... What does VG breaks down to when taken in your system? Glucose. What is Glucose? Sugar pretty much. See if that helps. It did me. I still haven't gone to check what's wrong with me but if I feel better then no big deal. I do high VG every once in a while. Plus... I'm in it for the throat hit too not just the flavor ^.^

Are you saying that you think VG may have caused symptoms of hypothyroidism? I've had a few of those since I started vaping regularly last May and have tended to think that my issues--if vape-related--PG or flavorings were the culprits.

 

[vape.queen]

I use about 10% clear high end vodka in place of PG and it carries the flavor well. Just wait a few days before vaping it because you get that alcohol taste in the back of your throat if you mix and then vape immediately after.

 

[Count Vapula]

I thought Lactic Acid was the main byproduct created in by your liver, since Glycerin doesn't react like the other sugars etc that are made into Glycogen

Its one reason you need to seriously up your clean water intake when vaping

 

[drkPu1se]

Are you saying that you think VG may have caused symptoms of hypothyroidism? I've had a few of those since I started vaping regularly last May and have tended to think that my issues--if vape-related--PG or flavorings were the culprits.

I refuse to say yes because of one reason alone. I have no clue. I came across a video by RiP which got me thinking. This is the video I came across. I didn't know if it was true enough, so I did more research into hypothyroidism. Then I got more into researching PG and VG and Nicotine, all that good stuff. I wish I could provide the links to the sites I came across on those chemicals, as they were really informative. Nothing a quick Googling can't remedy though if you want to look into it more. It's something to consider none of the less.

I ended up going straight PG in the end and eventually the aches and pains went away for me.

I will repeat though, I am NOT a medical professional so if your concerns are that bad, I'd just say go to an allergist and ask about how you can test for allergies of PG, VG, and whatever else. But you can also ask about the possibilities of having hypothyroidism as well.

I hope that was a decent amount of info for you friend.

 

[HeadInClouds]

I use 80% VG, 20% water. My blood sugar levels improved immensely when I quit smoking, and no problems developed when I moved to max VG nic base. I've never been diabetic, just used to be on the edge.

 

[drkPu1se]

I use 80% VG, 20% water. My blood sugar levels improved immensely when I quit smoking, and no problems developed when I moved to max VG nic base. I've never been diabetic, just used to be on the edge.

I never said it causes diabetes I was mentioning my observations with my own use. No two people will be affected the same, but there will be similarities.

 

[HeadInClouds]

I never said it causes diabetes I was mentioning my observations with my own use. No two people will be affected the same, but there will be similarities.

Apologies if I offended. No implications intended, just saw "VG" and "thyroid" in the same thread and added my experience.

 

[lirruping]

I'm trying to look into connections between blood sugar metabolism and thyroid function and hydration to see how they impact one another and may or may not be impacted by vaping. So far, I'm basically at the interested-but-confused stage. I need to get a little more systematic with my research... but my energy level is so low. (o, the cruel irony!).

The idea that vaping could possibly affect blood sugar metabolism is a new one to me. I have no measures of either my thyroid funciton nor blood sugar --either pre or post-vaping. In fact, at the moment, I have no easy access to medical care, period. And I do feel worlds better lungwise since switching from cigarettes. But I have developed chronic swollen feet & ankles, which started about 8 weeks into vaping and has not left me since.

I have a pretty sedentary way of life, unfortunately, as well as other chronic auto-immune problems, so it is hard to tell how much those things--as opposed to vaping--may account for the foot & ankle swelling. I've spoken to one other vaper who experienced this symptom shortly after takng up vaping, and have read a few accounts of it on ECF, but it doesn't seem to be commonly connected to vaping.

When I get my shit more together knowledge and informationwise, I guess I will start a thread on these issues. Meanwhile, please allow me to lazily ask: does anyone else have swollen feet since vaping and/or any ideas/information about vaping (VG or PG) and blood sugar?

 

[drkPu1se]

Apologies if I offended. No implications intended, just saw "VG" and "thyroid" in the same thread and added my experience.

Oh no, no offense taken, we are all giving advice I just wanted make it a point mostly OP that these are observations of personal experiences. Unless there's a doctor in the house, OP can take our observations and apply to their own experience as long as they don't take this advice as if prescribed by someone with a doctorate haha.

 

[drkPu1se]

I'm trying to look into connections between blood sugar metabolism and thyroid function and hydration to see how they impact one another and may or may not be impacted by vaping. So far, I'm basically at the interested-but-confused stage. I need to get a little more systematic with my research... but my energy level is so low. (o, the cruel irony!).

The idea that vaping could possibly affect blood sugar metabolism is a new one to me. I have no measures of either my thyroid funciton nor blood sugar --either pre or post-vaping. In fact, at the moment, I have no easy access to medical care, period. And I do feel worlds better lungwise since switching from cigarettes. But I have developed chronic swollen feet & ankles, which started about 8 weeks into vaping and has not left me since.

I have a pretty sedentary way of life, unfortunately, as well as other chronic auto-immune problems, so it is hard to tell how much those things--as opposed to vaping--may account for the foot & ankle swelling. I've spoken to one other vaper who experienced this symptom shortly after takng up vaping, and have read a few accounts of it on ECF, but it doesn't seem to be commonly connected to vaping.

When I get my shit more together knowledge and informationwise, I guess I will start a thread on these issues. Meanwhile, please allow me to lazily ask: does anyone else have swollen feet since vaping and/or any ideas/information about vaping (VG or PG) and blood sugar?

My experiences is similar to yours. Pretty much after the video I posted about above, and after my own research, I just came down to the conclusion of vaping less VG. Its helped a bit. When I do vape on higher VG, I try not to vape as much. All seriousness though, just try vaping less VG. If that doesn't help, go see an actual professional.

 

[lirruping]

My experiences is similar to yours. Pretty much after the video I posted about above, and after my own research, I just came down to the conclusion of vaping less VG. Its helped a bit. When I do vape on higher VG, I try not to vape as much. All seriousness though, just try vaping less VG. If that doesn't help, go see an actual professional.

@drkPu1se how is your experience similar to mine? If you'd prefer, please feel free to PM me.
thanks for the video link. I'll try to download and view it tomorrow. It's a bitch, but I can't stream.

Doctors, in general, are massively overrated. I've spent a lot of time with a lot of them, so I feel entitled to that opinion. I realize it's standard to think one is safer in the care of a doctor, and certainly it's safer legally to disclaim any medical authority in any context--even doctors do this outside very specific situations, eg, an appointment at their office for which you've registered, and given highly specific legal permissions (and often waivers) to be "treated". But that topic is a whole nother thing. It's just rambling in the middle of the night for me now, so I'll sign off and go to bed.

edit; But before I do, I'll say that if I had to forgo VG, I don't know what I would do... First, I would shrivel up like a prune. I find PG severely dehydrating and irritating to my lungs.

 

[drkPu1se]

@drkPu1se how is your experience similar to mine? If you'd prefer, please feel free to PM me.
thanks for the video link. I'll try to download and view it tomorrow. It's a bitch, but I can't stream.

Doctors, in general, are massively overrated. I've spent a lot of time with a lot of them, so I feel entitled to that opinion. I realize it's standard to think one is safer in the care of a doctor, and certainly it's safer legally to disclaim any medical authority in any context--even doctors do this outside very specific situations, eg, an appointment at their office for which you've registered, and given highly specific legal permissions (and often waivers) to be "treated". But that topic is a whole nother thing. It's just rambling in the middle of the night for me now, so I'll sign off and go to bed.

edit; But before I do, I'll say that if I had to forgo VG, I don't know what I would do... First, I would shrivel up like a prune. I find PG severely dehydrating and irritating to my lungs.

Man that's a bummer that you can't stream... Anyways.. When I say my experience is similar to yours, what I mean is that I had swollen hands and feet, and on top of that I was suffering from dry skin along with a weird ravenous ache in my stomach and sides. Placid eyes and cotton-mouth.... List goes on. But most prominent was definitely the aches, annoying cramps and the swelling of my feet.

As for leaving behind VG... I haven't haha. I just don't use as much VG and when I have higher VG amounts in my juice, I *try* to not vape as much as I normally do (every three to fifteen seconds).

 

[lirruping]

Man that's a bummer that you can't stream... Anyways.. When I say my experience is similar to yours, what I mean is that I had swollen hands and feet, and on top of that I was suffering from dry skin along with a weird ravenous ache in my stomach and sides. Placid eyes and cotton-mouth.... List goes on. But most prominent was definitely the aches, annoying cramps and the swelling of my feet.

As for leaving behind VG... I haven't haha. I just don't use as much VG and when I have higher VG amounts in my juice, I *try* to not vape as much as I normally do (every three to fifteen seconds).

I haven't been very disciplined about trying out different base ingredients to try to isolate the vape-related culprit (if there is one) either. I keep meaning to formulate & follow through on a plan for testing my sensitivities, but get sidetracked and it goes to the back burner.

You said your aches and pains went away when you went to strictly PG. Did this also solve the problem with swollen extremities?

 

[Heabob]

It may, or may not, have any bearing, but most USA VG is made from Genetically Altered SOY.
Some people may also be allergic to Soy products, IDK.
I get mine from RTS Vapes, as it's made from coconuts, and imported.
It may be worth a try, to see if reactions are the same.
Foot swelling is usually related to water retention and/or other medical problems.
And aches and pains could be a symptom of dehydration, especially leg pain.
I''d advise talking to a doctor about it though, as I'm no medical expert.

Normally I run 80/20 or 70/30 without issues, Type 2 diabetic on Metformin only.
Good Glucose levels, (if I stay outta the munchies).

 

[lirruping]

It may, or may not, have any bearing, but most USA VG is made from Genetically Altered SOY.
Some people may also be allergic to Soy products, IDK.
I get mine from RTS Vapes, as it's made from coconuts, and imported.
It may be worth a try, to see if reactions are the same.
Foot swelling is usually related to water retention and/or other medical problems.
And aches and pains could be a symptom of dehydration, especially leg pain.
I''d advise talking to a doctor about it though, as I'm no medical expert.

Normally I run 80/20 or 70/30 without issues, Type 2 diabetic on Metformin only.
Good Glucose levels, (if I stay outta the munchies).

Heya Heabob

Thank you for the reminder about RTS VG - imported coconuts are a lot less likely to be GMO and it's nice knowing at least the vegetable source. Do you (or does anybody?) happen to know about the source of Essential Depot VG?

Yes, clearly there are many other possible causes of "aches and pains" and swelling in the extremities.
My suspicion that my case of foot swelling may have some connection to vaping came initially and primarily because of the temporal connection: I quit smoking, started vaping, and weeks later had a chronic problem with swollen feet that has lasted nearly a year. Now, after many months and having communicated with several other people who've experienced something similar, I have reason to look more into it. So I'm plodding my way toward that.

When you say 80/20, you mean VG/PG or the other way?

 

[Heabob]

80 PG, 20 VG

Provides better wicking for me in my BCC PT Clone.
And I get better flavor with more PG anyway, plus less worry about steeping.
High VG makes my chest kinda heavy, like I'm drowning, lol.

 

[BigNasty]

Heya Heabob

Thank you for the reminder about RTS VG - imported coconuts are a lot less likely to be GMO and it's nice knowing at least the vegetable source. Do you (or does anybody?) happen to know about the source of Essential Depot VG?

Yes, clearly there are many other possible causes of "aches and pains" and swelling in the extremities.
My suspicion that my case of foot swelling may have some connection to vaping came initially and primarily because of the temporal connection: I quit smoking, started vaping, and weeks later had a chronic problem with swollen feet that has lasted nearly a year. Now, after many months and having communicated with several other people who've experienced something similar, I have reason to look more into it. So I'm plodding my way toward that.

When you say 80/20, you mean VG/PG or the other way?

if you have questions ask the vendor.
I know when I sourced mine they had an organic that was soy and a non organic that is coconut and imported. They were very helpful and up front.
While not common yet soy allergies or soy sensitivities are increasing at a rapid rate.

Also I agree Most mds have a serious case of anal cranium insertion syndrome going on.. so in love with their own shit they have elevated themselves into Mdeities or MDemigods. Most I have had the misfortune to come across are the poor fuckers who the nerds beat the shit out of in school.

 

[lirruping]

Thanks Heabob.
Yeah, I should call up Essential Depot and ask. Good idea, BN.

 

[pdxjlb]

Did you receive an answer @lirruping ??

 

[lirruping]

Did you receive an answer @lirruping ??

You know, I forgot all about it. For shame! I just dropped them a note. Since I last posted in this thread, I've switched to all VG (most of the time) --from E.D. But my foot problem is not much improved.
I am a bit doubtful that E.D. will answer me frankly if their V.G. is made from GMO soybeans, but one never knows. I will let you know when/if I know something more. Thanks for putting me back on the case

 

[pdxjlb]

Sorry to hear about the foot though Hope that it improves!

 

[Technofifi]

Heya Heabob

Thank you for the reminder about RTS VG - imported coconuts are a lot less likely to be GMO and it's nice knowing at least the vegetable source. Do you (or does anybody?) happen to know about the source of Essential Depot VG?

Yes, clearly there are many other possible causes of "aches and pains" and swelling in the extremities.
My suspicion that my case of foot swelling may have some connection to vaping came initially and primarily because of the temporal connection: I quit smoking, started vaping, and weeks later had a chronic problem with swollen feet that has lasted nearly a year. Now, after many months and having communicated with several other people who've experienced something similar, I have reason to look more into it. So I'm plodding my way toward that.

When you say 80/20, you mean VG/PG or the other way?

Hinckl;Post. I don't know if you have found a solution to your swollen feet but I found a 5 day regimen that completely solved the problem. First and, I think most important, is to wear compression socks. I was slightly scientific on this one and just wore one sock for the first 24 hours and the difference between my feet the next day was astounding. Second, keep as mobile as possible. If you are standing still, stretch up and down on your toes. Third, when you are sitting or lying down, keep your feet elevated. This is especially effective if you can sleep on your back with a couple of cushions under your lower legs. Fourth, massage in an upwards direction. And finally, there is a medication called aqua ban, available without a prescription, which should only be used for a maximum of 5 days per month (it is designed for premenstrual bloating). You will notice that you are peeing a lot in the first couple of days, but that is only to be expected. I got my flight socks from the pound shop. I don't know if more expensive ones will be more effective because I had complete success with my method. The only thing that I have persisted with is keeping my legs raised when I'm immobile and the problem has not returned. I hope this is helpful for other sufferers of the dreaded cankles. If it doesn't help, see your doctor.

 

[Whiskey]

Hinckl;Post. I don't know if you have found a solution to your swollen feet but I found a 5 day regimen that completely solved the problem. First and, I think most important, is to wear compression socks. I was slightly scientific on this one and just wore one sock for the first 24 hours and the difference between my feet the next day was astounding. Second, keep as mobile as possible. If you are standing still, stretch up and down on your toes. Third, when you are sitting or lying down, keep your feet elevated. This is especially effective if you can sleep on your back with a couple of cushions under your lower legs. Fourth, massage in an upwards direction. And finally, there is a medication called aqua ban, available without a prescription, which should only be used for a maximum of 5 days per month (it is designed for premenstrual bloating). You will notice that you are peeing a lot in the first couple of days, but that is only to be expected. I got my flight socks from the pound shop. I don't know if more expensive ones will be more effective because I had complete success with my method. The only thing that I have persisted with is keeping my legs raised when I'm immobile and the problem has not returned. I hope this is helpful for other sufferers of the dreaded cankles. If it doesn't help, see your doctor.

This thread is almost 2 years old, what Ejuice mixture are you using?