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Question about PMTA's and FDA regulations

Kyle M.

Member For 4 Years
Hey all I was hoping someone here can clear up some misunderstanding I'm having here. I've searched high and low on and off for over a month and can't seem to find anything about this.

Anyway I have a local chain of vape shops that is now up to 9 stores, they were started by a guy from my home town in 2011 or 2012. Back in November they posted on FaceBook that they had gotten a call from an FDA representative who said they were not authorized to sell ejuice and they could no longer sell any flavored ejuice including tobacco flavors. The FDA representative also told them that each and every flavor they sold had to go through the PMTA process and they would all be denied including tobacco flavors. They were also supposedly told they would have to cease operation during this period.

The owner vowed to close his stores and lay off nearly 60 employees. Two days later he posted that the company had been acquired by another local chain and they would be resuming business as usual under the old name but with new leadership. They would also be keeping their most popular flavors and bringing in many new lines.

I recently stopped in several locations to see how things were going, everyone is new, nobody really knows anything about vaping, or what is going on in the company. They now only sell pod systems and disposables, it's mostly salt nic juice, no DIY supplies at all. Employees at all three stores scratched their heads when I asked about RDA's and wire.

Now here's where it gets fishy. They posted on FB that they would keep their most popular flavors, according to employees they can't do that because they are the original owners intellectual property. They also cannot sell store brand juice that is both flavored and has nicotine. So they are selling unflavored juice in 3, 6, 12, and 18mg and the flavoring comes separate. Yet their non store brand juice is mixed ready to go.

So the big question is how exactly are these juice manufacturers still making and selling juice but the FDA is telling small shops they can't sell juice without going through the entire PMTA process? None of these large manufacturers have been required to cease operations while waiting for approval?

Like I said I can't seem to find any info from the FDA to confirm any of this anywhere. I'm convinced that the owner saw the writing on the wall and wanted out. He tricked someone into buying his possibly failing company and then made up some story about the FDA contacting him so he didn't look like a sellout.
 

Freyja

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
So the big question is how exactly are these juice manufacturers still making and selling juice
Illegally.
As of now, unless a vaping product, of any kind, has an approved PMTA application, it's illegal to sell in the USA. The Vuse Solo, tobacco flavor, is the only legal vaping product, last I heard.
The FDA isn't fully enforcing it's rules yet.
Products made before some date are grandfathered but none are still made. E-liquid made with synthetic nicotine may be a loophole at the moment but there's action in congress to close that. Flavorings are legal because they're not specifically for vaping.
 

SnapDragon NY

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SnapDragon NY

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Employees at all three stores scratched their heads when I asked about RDA's and wire.
Private sellers have items for sale on the Hardware thread maybe someone has an RDA you maybe interested in? or you could post a Want to buy thread looking for an RDA and wire.


Chinese vendors are still selling and shipping to customers in the US - sometimes long shipping times to get the gear you want, but usually no problem in getting what you want.
 

Kyle M.

Member For 4 Years
Private sellers have items for sale on the Hardware thread maybe someone has an RDA you maybe interested in? or you could post a Want to buy thread looking for an RDA and wire.


Chinese vendors are still selling and shipping to customers in the US - sometimes long shipping times to get the gear you want, but usually no problem in getting what you want.

Oh I’m not having any trouble finding stuff, just have to go to the right place. I recently ordered a good amount of wire and cotton. I have a few RDA’s I really like. I just can’t get adjusting but juice locally, that’s what’s annoying.
 

Kyle M.

Member For 4 Years
Illegally.
As of now, unless a vaping product, of any kind, has an approved PMTA application, it's illegal to sell in the USA. The Vuse Solo, tobacco flavor, is the only legal vaping product, last I heard.
The FDA isn't fully enforcing it's rules yet.
Products made before some date are grandfathered but none are still made. E-liquid made with synthetic nicotine may be a loophole at the moment but there's action in congress to close that. Flavorings are legal because they're not specifically for vaping.

Interesting. This is the thing that nobody seems to be mentioning. I might have to jump on the DIY bandwagon soon. I’ve looked into it a few times I just haven’t actually done it.
 

Freyja

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
I recently ordered a good amount of wire and cotton.
Wire & cotton not specifically labeled or sold as vaping products remain legal.
I might have to jump on the DIY bandwagon soon. I’ve looked into it a few times I just haven’t actually done it.
Suggest you calculate how much nic -- if you use nic -- you'll need for the rest of your anticipated life time and buy it very soon. Flavors, vg, and pg remain legal because they have many other uses besides for vaping. Liquid nic not sold for vaping specifically remains legal but there's been action in congress to tax it very heavily.
 

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