Resistance wire safety guide

[5150sick]

https://vaporreporter.wordpress.com/2015/08/03/resistance-wire-safety-guide/


Stainless Steel 304/316 series. Safety rating- 95 (A+).

SS has been used in medical procedures for years, though only recently has found its way into vaping coils. This is also the type of steel used in cookware. Why? Because it has a very high melting point (2400-2750 degrees F), and the questionable alloys in the steel (nickel being the biggest of concern) also require a high amount of heat (2200-2300 degrees F) before they begin to leach. I don’t know any mainstream vaping device that can reach those levels. Stainless Steel also brings a few added bonuses to the table. 304, 316, and 317 (welding wire, also known as GPlat in the community) contains enough nickel so where it can be used in a temperature controlled device. The only downside is it can be a bit tough to work with as it’s a little stiffer than any of the other metals on this list save titanium.

Kanthal (Iron-Chromium-Aluminum)- 88 (B+).

Kanthal was the second material used for resistance wire by vapers with good reason. Not only was it tougher than nichrome, but for those who were sensitive to nickel this was a perfect alternative. The safety concerns are two fold. Aluminum has it’s own stigma around it, but the big issue is the chrome content. With enough heat it can be transformed into it’s hexavalent (+6) oxide state, which is a known carcinogen, and leach. This would require you heating the coil to a orange hot state for an extended period of time. It’s why you should still replace your coils at some point, not just the wicking material. My rule is after every 3rd wick replacement and dry burn to remove the gunk. I have seen it suggested from others that you should anywhere between every time you change wicks to every 6th time. Kanthal isn’t compatible with temperature control devices as of writing this.



Titanium- 72 (C).

The first alternative to nickel for temperature control to hit the ecig scene. Ti has the highest melting point of all the materials we use (3040 degrees F), has been used in medical procedures, and is one of the toughest metals known to man. So why the average rating? Titanium Oxide, the byproduct of heating it up. The EPA and OSHA have put a limit on how much any worker can inhale during a day. This makes it a questionable material to use for vaping. As long as you aren’t dry burning it, or running it too hot you should be fine, but there is no long term vape testing to say one way or the other. It’s up to the user on whether or not they want to take that risk. Keep in mind this is the stiffest material to use for making coils, which depending on your build style can be a good or bad thing.

NiChrome (Nickle-Chromium w/ some trace elements possible like iron)- 65 (D).

Not only was it the first material vapers used for resistance wire, was the first documented material used for creating heat through electrical resistance back in 1905. It gets a very low grade on safety because it combines two metals with known issues. Nickel is a known carcinogen with other issues (will get to it), and as mentioned early Chromium Hexavalent is as well. It has a high melting point (2550 degrees F), but it doesn't do it a lot of good in real world applications because of how soft the alloy is. 32g nichrome will “pop” easier than 32g kanthal, SS, or Ti. That’s not to say it doesn't have its uses. For low wattage/temperature vaping you shouldn’t have any real issues. It has a lower resistance than the 3 mentioned before it, making it good for a heat sink material on some more exotic coil builds (think Clapton). It is also very flexible. For high wattage vapers or those sensitive to nickel can not suggest using it though.



Nickel- 55 (F).

This material gets a failing grade for a large number of reasons. 1- It’s a known carcinogen linked more often than not to lung cancer. 2- There are people with nickel allergies who simply can not use this material to begin with. While it to has a high melting point (2647 degrees F), it’s such a soft metal that it not only easily pops but is very hard to work with. Like NiChrome it does have a use though- As non-resistant wire (a cheaper alternative to silver or gold). It has the lowest resistance of all the materials listed, so it’s the perfect choice to have electricity run through without heating it up. That’s why it was used back in the day on GG Ithaka and the like as lead wires, and today is used on the SS coil heads by Aspire. Because no heat is generated by the energy flowing through it, there’s almost no chance of it leaching through, meaning there’s very little chance of you breathing any of it in.

 

[pulsevape]

I was reading here about some guy trying platinum wire...anybody hear anymore about that.....apparently he said is cleaned up really good after a dry burn...

 

[mav]

I really wanted to try the stainless but the resistance is so much lower compared to kanthal. It would take me almost double the windings to hit my target resistance and keep it well within my batteries parameters. I have some 0.020 inch stainless on hand and that is what I ran the numbers on. Might twist one up sometime and see if it will comfortably fit or not. I have been hearing nothing but good about it.

 

[raymo2u]

Im not seeing Kanthal D, NI40 or 60, Platinum, Tungsten and other wires being used...

Here's what Ive posted a while ago in the "Post your builds" thread.

It has the same exact content as A1 except less Aluminum is in it and it has a slightly lower Max Heat Temp.

Resistance/ Temp Rating of Kanthal we can use for vaping....
Kanthal Max. continuous operating temp. Resistivity at 20ºC (68ºF)
Kanthal A-1 (wire) 1400 (2550) 1.45 (872)
Kanthal A (wire) 1350 (2460) 1.39 (836)
Kanthal D (wire) 1300 (2370) 1.35 (812)

Kanthal A1:
Specifications

• 22% chromium (Cr), 5.8% aluminum (Al), Iron (Fe) balance
• Density: 7.1 g/cubic cm
• Tensile strength: 680 n/mm²
• Melting Temperature: 1500°C (2732°F)
• Maximum Operating Temperature: 1400°C (2550°F)
• Density: 0.256 lbs/cubic in.
• Specific heat capacity @ 68°F: 0.11 Btu/lb°F

Kanthal D:
Specifications

• 22% chromium (Cr), 4.8% aluminum (Al), Iron (Fe) balance
• Melting Temperature: 1500°C (2732°F)
• Maximum Operating Temperature: 1300°C (2370°F)
• Density: 0.262 lbs/cubic in.
• Specific heat capacity @ 68°F: 0.11 Btu/lb°F

Kanthal A1 vs. Kanthal D
Kanthal A1 wire has a slightly higher melting temperature and tensile strength and is more commonly found in large industrial applications. Kanthal D is usually used for small home and small-scale applications.
Kanthal D would actually be more suitable for vaping due to the reduced Aluminum Content in it

 

[raymo2u]

I really wanted to try the stainless but the resistance is so much lower compared to kanthal. It would take me almost double the windings to hit my target resistance and keep it well within my batteries parameters. I have some 0.020 inch stainless on hand and that is what I ran the numbers on. Might twist one up sometime and see if it will comfortably fit or not. I have been hearing nothing but good about it.

Think of 316L resistance this way. 28g 316L is like using 26g Kanthal A1. This is a good way to measure where you are, its not too much lower like NI200 or Ti.

 

[pulsevape]

Im not seeing Kanthal D, NI40 or 60, Platinum, Tungsten and other wires being used...

Here's what Ive posted a while ago in the "Post your builds" thread.

It has the same exact content as A1 except less Aluminum is in it and it has a slightly lower Max Heat Temp.

Resistance/ Temp Rating of Kanthal we can use for vaping....
Kanthal Max. continuous operating temp. Resistivity at 20ºC (68ºF)
Kanthal A-1 (wire) 1400 (2550) 1.45 (872)
Kanthal A (wire) 1350 (2460) 1.39 (836)
Kanthal D (wire) 1300 (2370) 1.35 (812)

Kanthal A1:
Specifications

• 22% chromium (Cr), 5.8% aluminum (Al), Iron (Fe) balance
• Density: 7.1 g/cubic cm
• Tensile strength: 680 n/mm²
• Melting Temperature: 1500°C (2732°F)
• Maximum Operating Temperature: 1400°C (2550°F)
• Density: 0.256 lbs/cubic in.
• Specific heat capacity @ 68°F: 0.11 Btu/lb°F

Kanthal D:
Specifications

• 22% chromium (Cr), 4.8% aluminum (Al), Iron (Fe) balance
• Melting Temperature: 1500°C (2732°F)
• Maximum Operating Temperature: 1300°C (2370°F)
• Density: 0.262 lbs/cubic in.
• Specific heat capacity @ 68°F: 0.11 Btu/lb°F

Kanthal A1 vs. Kanthal D
Kanthal A1 wire has a slightly higher melting temperature and tensile strength and is more commonly found in large industrial applications. Kanthal D is usually used for small home and small-scale applications.
Kanthal D would actually be more suitable for vaping due to the reduced Aluminum Content in it

Ray what have you heard about platinium wire...I just read about one guy who was using it and the saving grace he pointed out about it was that it did not gunk up as quickly and that when dry burned it returned to almost pristine shape....I haven't heard anymore about it...have you..specifically any info on the saftey of vaping with it.

 

[raymo2u]

Ray what have you heard about platinium wire...I just read about one guy who was using it and the saving grace he pointed out about it was that it did not gunk up as quickly and that when dry burned it returned to almost pristine shape....I haven't heard anymore about it...have you..specifically any info on the saftey of vaping with it.

Its SUPPOSED to be the cleanest purest wire, it can be burned white hot to remove all impurities and reused. I havent tried any as Im not as hell bent as others over TC with special wires but Ive heard it can be used and its clean tasting...but not worth its costs....

 

[pulsevape]

heard anything about the saftey of using it for vaping....not interested in TC.

 

[raymo2u]

heard anything about the saftey of using it for vaping....not interested in TC.

Non so far but its wildy expensive and only a handful of people will ever use it so the info on it is pretty limited overall

 

[pulsevape]

yeah I think he said it worked out to be like 15.00 a coil.

 

[raymo2u]

yeah I think he said it worked out to be like 15.00 a coil.

Yea its Roughly $55-70 for 2ft on Ebay for 24g/26g/28g.

 

[Vapomizer]

Yea its Roughly $55-70 for 2ft on Ebay for 24g/26g/28g.

hmmm, a shiny wire like that in an all glass RDA like the ice cubed, that would be vape jewelry, on top of a mod made of gold maybe

 

[raymo2u]

hmmm, a shiny wire like that in an all glass RDA like the ice cubed, that would be vape jewelry, on top of a mod made of gold maybe

Ive seen a few Rings that had RDA/coil designs on them on Instagram...I wanted one made of Silver but they were over $100...If it was more like $50 I would definitely of picked it up...

 

[5150sick]

Ive seen a few Rings that had RDA/coil designs on them on Instagram...I wanted one made of Silver but they were over $100...If it was more like $50 I would definitely of picked it up...

I saw an Alien Clapton and some kind of zipper coil that were charms on eBay.
I wear jewelry so I was interested but I wear sterling silver and the charms were made out of copper.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

I have had stainless coils melt on me before....anyone else have that problem? working fine then they just "pop" In both modes with two diff devices I might add....could have been the coils though, scared me to go back I watched one do it and I dont wanna inhale anything popping off one or something. I have had other claptons or twists that have bad spots and break now and then but it's very rare. They never actually shrink back like that when they break either you could tell the wire melted back a bit

I would just like to point out that Ti is a lot easier to work with when you get the Annealed wire and It definitely DOES NOT OXIDIZE until 1200 degrees Celsius which is ridiculously high, If this isnt the case someone please let me know why I should stop vaping it!!

 

[vap3r]

There is also tungsten wire to consider. Not inexpensive either.

 

[raymo2u]

There is also tungsten wire to consider. Not inexpensive either.

Tungsten is more dangerous then eating lead when inhaled...I wouldnt suggest using it and one of the reasons I wouldnt use the Altus RTA...

 

[Vapomizer]

Tungsten is more dangerous then eating lead when inhaled...I wouldnt suggest using it and one of the reasons I wouldnt use the Altus RTA...

So can we conclude and be right, that out of all wires being used in vaping, SS is the safest followed directly by Kanthal, all the rest are questionable at least?

 

[raymo2u]

So can we conclude and be right, that out of all wires being used in vaping, SS is the safest followed directly by Kanthal, all the rest are questionable at least?

I wouldnt use anything other then Kanthal, Nichrome and SS...the rest arent tested enough and most of them we dont know enough about inhaling from while heated, let alone a liquid being introduced while heating them...

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

I wouldnt use anything other then Kanthal, Nichrome and SS...the rest arent tested enough and most of them we dont know enough about inhaling from while heated, let alone a liquid being introduced while heating them...

I am scratching my head a bit here but.....SS is the hardest wire to find and most recently introduced in the vaping realm right? I would think that nickel wire, since it was out first of t/c wires, would be the "most tested"......Does anybody have the issue of stainless popping and breaking on them? I dont have many devices that can fit thick wire but I shove claptons in all my rebuildables using thinner wires so 24 ga. ss wouldnt be an option for me....And I really hate to make claptons and have them break on me, that would be a big waste of time and money

 

[Vapomizer]

I am scratching my head a bit here but.....SS is the hardest wire to find and most recently introduced in the vaping realm right? I would think that nickel wire, since it was out first of t/c wires, would be the "most tested"......Does anybody have the issue of stainless popping and breaking on them? I dont have many devices that can fit thick wire but I shove claptons in all my rebuildables using thinner wires so 24 ga. ss wouldnt be an option for me....And I really hate to make claptons and have them break on me, that would be a big waste of time and money

SS is not hard to find, there is plenty in the market and has been used long before vaping as wielding and surgical wire, Nickel is the first discovered TC wire due to it large TCR range, its resistance changes greatly with heat and this is what brought the whole idea of TCR driven temp. control, but Nickel is a known carcinogenic and is totally unsafe to heat and breath anything out of, later Ti and SS were used for temp control since they also have their resistance change with heat but not as much as Nickel yet they are much safer wires to use, i have been using SS316L exclusively for a few months now and they never popped or broke on me, even after prolonged use of the same coil with frequent dry burning and wick replacement.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

SS is not hard to find, there is plenty in the market and has been used long before vaping as wielding and surgical wire, Nickel is the first discovered TC wire due to it large TCR range, its resistance changes greatly with heat and this is what brought the whole idea of TCR driven temp. control, but Nickel is a known carcinogenic and is totally unsafe to heat and breath anything out of, later Ti and SS were used for temp control since they also have their resistance change with heat but not as much as Nickel yet they are much safer wires to use, i have been using SS316L exclusively for a few months now and they never popped or broke on me, even after prolonged use of the same coil with frequent dry burning and wick replacement.

I planned to give it a shot anyway as far as SS goes....I do however think it is the last T/C wire to be introduced to vaping and just wanted to give it time. The coils that were popping on me were different kinds of pre-made ones so no telling which grade they may have been honestly. I really did enjoy Ni200 and didnt have any noxious fumes etc like I have been having with Ti....I also seemed to burn those pre-made SS coils fairly easily and they had a strange odor or taste at times for me too(again pre-made so yeah, I know). The jury is still out for me as I don't believe they would hand us Ni wire to vape on if it was so toxic to us(seems it would be counter-productive on their part not to do some research on safety) but that dont mean its not possible either though as all of this is testing in process..........Going to probably just order 3 types of the same gauges and make the same coils and see what does what.

Also HERE is a link on the "TRUTH" about the safety of vaping with Ni200, Although I have read about the "TRUTH" on vaping with Ti and that odd taste on fresh coils still kind of makes me wonder...
EDIT: mAyBe I have a titanium allergy

 

[Vapomizer]

I planned to give it a shot anyway as far as SS goes....I do however think it is the last T/C wire to be introduced to vaping and just wanted to give it time. The coils that were popping on me were different kinds of pre-made ones so no telling which grade they may have been honestly. I really did enjoy Ni200 and didnt have any noxious fumes etc like I have been having with Ti....I also seemed to burn those pre-made SS coils fairly easily and they had a strange odor or taste at times for me too(again pre-made so yeah, I know). The jury is still out for me as I don't believe they would hand us Ni wire to vape on if it was so toxic to us(seems it would be counter-productive on their part not to do some research on safety) but that dont mean its not possible either though as all of this is testing in process..........Going to probably just order 3 types of the same gauges and make the same coils and see what does what.

Also HERE is a link on the "TRUTH" about the safety of vaping with Ni200, Although I have read about the "TRUTH" on vaping with Ti and that odd taste on fresh coils still kind of makes me wonder...
EDIT: mAyBe I have a titanium allergy

That site does not include any scientific references to what they claim, i wouldn't take a random blogger's word for it

Here are a few scientific references i found by simple Googling, not the way i would use to locate research articles in an academic setting, but this at least gives a better version of the "TRUTH" than some random blogger without any references

"Carcinogenic effect of nickel compounds.
Nickel is a widely distributed metal that is industrially applied in many forms. Accumulated epidemiological evidence confirms that exposures to nickel compounds are associated with increased nasal and lung cancer incidence, both in mostly occupational exposures. Although the molecular mechanisms by which nickel compounds cause cancer are still under intense investigation, the carcinogenic actions of nickel compounds are thought to involve oxidative stress, genomic DNA damage, epigenetic effects, and the regulation of gene expression by activation of certain transcription factors related to corresponding signal transduction pathways. The present review summarizes our current knowledge on the molecular mechanisms of nickel carcinogenesis, with special emphasis on the role of nickel induced reactive oxygen species (ROS) and signal transduction pathways."
SOURCE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16283514


"Effects of Nickel Exposure
Nickel is one of many carcinogenic metals known to be an environmental and occupational pollutant. The New York University School of Medicine warns that chronic exposure has been connected with increased risk of lung cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurological deficits, developmental deficits in childhood, and high blood pressure. [1]
Nickel exposure introduces free radicals which lead to oxidative damage and may also affect the kidneys and liver. [2] In 2012, Egypt’s Ministry of Agriculture administered liver function tests to 25 nickel-plating workers. Results showed they overwhelmingly suffered from compromised liver function. [3]
Researchers at Dominican University of California have linked nickel exposure to breast cancer. How? Well, nickel is believed to bind to estrogen receptors and mimic the actions of estrogen. It is well established that lifetime estrogen exposure is a breast cancer risk factor, and, unfortunately, even this “imposter estrogen” contributes to the risk. [4]
Additionally, nickel has been identified as a toxin that severely damages reproductive health and can lead to infertility, miscarriage, birth defects, and nervous system defects. [5] [6]"
SOURCE: http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/metal-toxicity-health-dangers-nickel/


If you want to vape on that metal based on some "TRUTH" from a random internet blogger then ....

 

[Vapomizer]

In my opinion, only SS and Kanthal are safe (as far as we know today) to use as a heating element, all the rest are at least questionable or straight out harmful like in the case of Nickle with 100s of documented studies showing it as a toxin and a carcinogen.

Nichrome .. i am not so sure about that, we have been exposed to Nichrome heating elements for a long time in toasters and electric ovens but the exposure has not been as direct and as involving as in vaping, i personally don't trust Nichrome either and would not vape on it.

Vaping is a risk minimization activity and it wouldn't be too smart to vape on questionable metals, the chemicals in the flavors are doing us enough harm already, no need to add another harmful factor, i tried vaping unflavored liquids with SS coils for a while but it was not a pleasant experience, so i started adding flavors again but try to keep the % as low as possible to limit the exposure.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

In my opinion, only SS and Kanthal are safe (as far as we know today) to use as a heating element, all the rest are at least questionable or straight out harmful like in the case of Nickle with 100s of documented studies showing it as a toxin and a carcinogen.

Nichrome .. i am not so sure about that, we have been exposed to Nichrome heating elements for a long time in toasters and electric ovens but the exposure has not been as direct and as involving as in vaping, i personally don't trust Nichrome either and would not vape on it.

Vaping is a risk minimization activity and it wouldn't be too smart to vape on questionable metals, the chemicals in the flavors are doing us enough harm already, no need to add another harmful factor, i tried vaping unflavored liquids with SS coils for a while but it was not a pleasant experience, so i started adding flavors again but try to keep the % as low as possible to limit the exposure.

I agree that some metals may have properties that could cause harm, the question is can our devices get the metal to that point physically. The honest truth is that there is not any long term research on vaping with these metals because we are the beginning of that era. If you believe one is safer than the other than that is off of the scientific facts relating to other instances with the metal and it does not necessarily mean that it relates to vaping at all. Look up Nickel on Wiki and the toxicity section says the most harmful portions are the ones that are NOT pure(compounds). That is where the cancer and breathing the carcinogens comes into play. I promise I am not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone, I am just learning out loud and everyone has their opinions. Honestly if you can give me some cold hard "scientific proof" that Stainless Steel is proven in studies to be safe "FOR VAPING" with 10 years + of testing.....Id believe you!!! BUT WE AINT GOT THAT KIND OF RESEARCH ON NO KINDS OF WIRES FOR VAPING RIGHT NOW CMON GUYS BE REALISTIC AND JUST KEEP AN OPEN MIND IS ALL IM SAYIN!!.........what if come to find out ten years from now, SS and Ti are harmful to vapers and Ni is the only safe one---(dont laugh it COULD happen!)....I know I would feel terrible if I told everyone IT WAS THE SAFEST WIRE HANDS DOWN, then found out it wasnt later.....Truth is we just dont know yet and I am going to continue to just inform people on the experiences I go through with different wires so one can compare to their own experiences, not just take advice and run with it.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

SS is not hard to find, there is plenty in the market and has been used long before vaping as wielding and surgical wire, Nickel is the first discovered TC wire due to it large TCR range, its resistance changes greatly with heat and this is what brought the whole idea of TCR driven temp. control, but Nickel is a known carcinogenic and is totally unsafe to heat and breath anything out of, later Ti and SS were used for temp control since they also have their resistance change with heat but not as much as Nickel yet they are much safer wires to use, i have been using SS316L exclusively for a few months now and they never popped or broke on me, even after prolonged use of the same coil with frequent dry burning and wick replacement.

Also no B&Ms anywhere have SS near me and I only see a few vendors on ebay that I could deal with, to get 28/32ga., that look reliable. I hate signing up for different websites and really dont like using the credit card all over the internet so If you know of a reputable place to get some ss fairly fast(preferably around $6-8 a roll and paypal payment method or on ebay) LMK. I am looking forward to trying it and comparing all three and seeing what works best for me!!!

 

[raymo2u]

No one said they are safe, we are listing what we feel is safer then other wires, there is enough studies done to get a rough estimate on what you wouldnt want tpo use and what would be safer then other wires, its not rocket science. If you decide to try Tungsten, after a few weeks please let your new care taker know to give us a good description of "where your at now" Some metals you should know enough not to inhale off of, let alone heat it then inhale a liquid off of.

 

[Vapomizer]

Also no B&Ms anywhere have SS near me and I only see a few vendors on ebay that I could deal with, to get 28/32ga., that look reliable. I hate signing up for different websites and really dont like using the credit card all over the internet so If you know of a reputable place to get some ss fairly fast(preferably around $6-8 a roll and paypal payment method or on ebay) LMK. I am looking forward to trying it and comparing all three and seeing what works best for me!!!

Yes most B&M vape shops don't have SS wire, but you do not have to buy it there, you do not even have to look in vaping related stores, any SS316L, SS317, SS304 or SS403 wire from a reputable manufacturer with the correct alloy specification will do, like i told you this is basically surgical and wielding wire and can be found in many places and is super cheap if not "vaping branded" i am not sure where to get that in the US, but either get a UD/Youde or Geekvape branded wire from any online vape site, they make 10m spool of 24g/26g/28g and for me in Europe i can get as much as i like from UK-Based Crazy Wire Company which is a professional wire manufacturer and costs like 1/10th the price of Youde or Geekvape branded wire.

Update: I am not sure what is going on with that Credit Card deal and not wanting to use it online, how do you usually make online orders? do you always limit yourself to B&M? i am not sure why anyone would want to do that since you will always be getting the worst deals possible, there are plenty of solutions to that, many banks offer virtual credit cards, one use only credit cards, pre-paid credit cards, or internet only cards for that purpose, or you can have a special debit card linked to an empty account that you only fund with the amount of your purchase, this will eliminate any abuse, otherwise i am sure that there are plenty of reputable US-based online stores that have Youde/Geekvape branded SS wire and that would accept paypal, you need to look for them.

 

[raymo2u]

Love some Cleaned up 316L SS

 

[Vapomizer]

Love some Cleaned up 316L SS
View attachment 43185

Oh, how can you get it so shiny like that? when i dry burn my SS316L coils they become greyish, they lose this shine once i glow them, and never have this shiny clean silver look back, what is your secret, i wanna know immediately

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

No one said they are safe, we are listing what we feel is safer then other wires, there is enough studies done to get a rough estimate on what you wouldnt want tpo use and what would be safer then other wires, its not rocket science. If you decide to try Tungsten, after a few weeks please let your new care taker know to give us a good description of "where your at now" Some metals you should know enough not to inhale off of, let alone heat it then inhale a liquid off of.

Im talking about trying wires that have already been around and deemed safe by many in the vaping community. Not random wires that I have never heard of or even Nichrome and wires that are of compounds etc. I dont believe Nichrome to be safe myself as I have had personal issues with the wire such as its integrity and fume irritation.....thats how I concluded it, my body told me I didnt like it and others have had similar instances and thats enough for me!!
I am pretty sure the thread is about which wire is safest and I saw quite a few say SS was. Just want people to know its worth it to research at what temperatures or in what forms these metals are harmful. Id love to hear whether or not ANYONE has experience to support or deny any accusations of them being unsafe. FROM EACH OTHER IS THE BEST WAY TO LEARN!!
The studies that have been done are not related to anything vaping and you have to look at the environments that these metals must be in to cause them to be harmful, and determine if you will be pushing your wire to that point(some people use some pretty dangerous devices)......I am only using T/C mode and will NOT be running SS in wattage as I am trying to move more towards the economical and hopefully safer future of vaping which is said to be temp control.

 

[raymo2u]

Im talking about trying wires that have already been around and deemed safe by many in the vaping community. Not random wires that I have never heard of or even Nichrome and wires that are of compounds etc. I dont believe Nichrome to be safe myself as I have had personal issues with the wire such as its integrity and fume irritation.....thats how I concluded it, my body told me I didnt like it and others have had similar instances and thats enough for me!!
I am pretty sure the thread is about which wire is safest and I saw quite a few say SS was. Just want people to know its worth it to research at what temperatures or in what forms these metals are harmful. Id love to hear whether or not ANYONE has experience to support or deny any accusations of them being unsafe. FROM EACH OTHER IS THE BEST WAY TO LEARN!!
The studies that have been done are not related to anything vaping and you have to look at the environments that these metals must be in to cause them to be harmful, and determine if you will be pushing your wire to that point(some people use some pretty dangerous devices)......I am only using T/C mode and will NOT be running SS in wattage as I am trying to move more towards the economical and hopefully safer future of vaping which is said to be temp control.

The argument for SS is we cook with it and it has been used in medical inhalation equipment for atleast 30 years now and there isnt too much in the dark about it, in the vaping perspective it may be new but in the time its been used for heating and inhalation of liquids it is well documented by pharmacology. Why do we not use other metals as cookware? This is the biggest argument when thinking of trying new wire, if its not safe or was not deemed safe to cook on would you use it to vape with?
Nickel
Titanium
Tungsten
Platinum
Kanthal
Nichrome
SS
Out of the Choices above what would you use to heat something y\ou will ingest or inhale with? The 3 choices I have made are not without thought, but with enough thought to conclude I feel safe using those. They are not without flaws but they are the least dangerous IMO.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

Yes most B&M vape shops don't have SS wire, but you do not have to buy it there, you do not even have to look in vaping related stores, any SS316L, SS317, SS304 or SS403 wire from a reputable manufacturer with the correct alloy specification will do, like i told you this is basically surgical and wielding wire and can be found in many places and is super cheap if not "vaping branded" i am not sure where to get that in the US, but either get a UD/Youde or Geekvape branded wire from any online vape site, they make 10m spool of 24g/26g/28g and for me in Europe i can get as much as i like from UK-Based Crazy Wire Company which is a professional wire manufacturer and costs like 1/10th the price of Youde or Geekvape branded wire.

Update: I am not sure what is going on with that Credit Card deal and not wanting to use it online, how do you usually make online orders? do you always limit yourself to B&M? i am not sure why anyone would want to do that since you will always be getting the worst deals possible, there are plenty of solutions to that, many banks offer virtual credit cards, one use only credit cards, pre-paid credit cards, or internet only cards for that purpose, or you can have a special debit card linked to an empty account that you only fund with the amount of your purchase, this will eliminate any abuse, otherwise i am sure that there are plenty of reputable US-based online stores that have Youde/Geekvape branded SS wire and that would accept paypal, you need to look for them.

It isnt so much I cant I just dont like to go trying out different or newer sites that arent reputable. I cringe at all the people who go from site to site buying stuff and putting their credit card info into different sites......I buy online, just prefer paypal so I can limit the chance of my info being stolen. I really want to buy wire that is clean and ready to vape on as I will most definitely not be using single strand coils and cleaning it is a time consuming pain anyway. I do enjoy BSing at my local B&Ms with the staff as I used to frequent a lot and rarely have since starting DIY and rebuilding. I always check but I was just mentioning it is harder to find for me anyways and hoping we could agree that it was newest on the shelf. It also has the least vaping background as its most recently introduced to the market which was why I wanted to wait and hear about how it is working out before I try it out.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

The argument for SS is we cook with it and it has been used in medical inhalation equipment for atleast 30 years now and there isnt too much in the dark about it, in the vaping perspective it may be new but in the time its been used for heating and inhalation of liquids it is well documented by pharmacology. Why do we not use other metals as cookware? This is the biggest argument when thinking of trying new wire, if its not safe or was not deemed safe to cook on would you use it to vape with?
Nickel
Titanium
Tungsten
Platinum
Kanthal
Nichrome
SS
Out of the Choices above what would you use to heat something y\ou will ingest or inhale with? The 3 choices I have made are not without thought, but with enough thought to conclude I feel safe using those. They are not without flaws but they are the least dangerous IMO.

Why would you use nichrome over nickel when its basically part nickel I dont understand that? Tons of cookware is made with titanium as well and Nickel coating is used in a lot of lab equipment and many other things. Some SS wire even has nickel in it as well, I am not saying your assessment is wrong just dont think its as cut and dry as you make it sound.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

Is it easier with ss if its annealed or tempered etc or is it all fairly easy to work with the way it is? Also does the roll spring out on ya really bad if you let it go(hated that with nickel)?

 

[Vapomizer]

hoping we could agree that it was newest on the shelf. It also has the least vaping background as its most recently introduced to the market which was why I wanted to wait and hear about how it is working out before I try it out.

I don't know why you keep stressed that part over and over, oldest used stuff is not old enough to be long-term research worthy, to scientifically measure a long term effect of something you need to have 10, 20 or 50 years of data from trials and subsequent follow ups, and no material has been used that long, vaping itself did not exist 10 years ago so the difference between the oldest and newest vaping metals are few months apart, when did Ni200 first started getting used as a TC wire? since the introduction of DNA40 and when was that? one year ago or less, when did SS get used? a few months ago, so it is only a few months difference between both metals, that is not a significant amount of time.

Also you keep referring to vaping as it is own unique activity which it is not, just a metal heating a liquid and vaporizing it, it is the same as boiling water or any other liquid in a pan on the stove and having vapor produced in your kitchen which you breath while cooking, that is basically what happens every day in kitchens all around the world, so you should view coils as cookware and there are tons of research about safe metals for cooking so nothing new here.

Some SS wire even has nickel in it as well

Ni200 is 99% Nickel
SS316L has 10-14%
SS403 has 0%

Big difference in exposure here, Nickel is a metal that is highly toxic just with frequent normal contact, heating it and cooking liquid with it just increases the risk, you do not need vaping focused long-term research to establish that fact, it is already well established by research in other applications.

Is it easier with ss if its annealed or tempered etc or is it all fairly easy to work with the way it is? Also does the roll spring out on ya really bad if you let it go(hated that with nickel)?

It is easy enough to work with as it is but it is a very springy wire, and yes the roll would spring out if you let it go, but why would you want to let it go?

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

The only form nickel is toxic in is compounds and liquid/ gas forms from what I was reading which are temp. and/or environments a vape cant reach using temp control especially. I definitely believe what you guys are saying about stainless in general to be true and as I had said before, I ALREADY WANTED TO TRY IT OUT!! I do think our bodies will be the number one judge of whether or not the metals are harming us by giving us signs that it doesnt agree with us and hope we can share said experiences with each other to stay informed. I honestly dont want somebody to feel like me right now and say "hey I have had good experiences with nickel" and kinda get told that what It was doing was really killing me. I vaped on nickel for probably 9 months and it really got me into building and that is what really enabled me to kick cigarettes. I vaped on other coils throughout and didnt have any irritations or coughing issues while vaping it. I admit that there may be more sound options out now and the other issues nickel pose, like difficulty to work with and extremely low resistance level, made me want to try something new. Been working with Ti for a few months as I heard many good things and wanted to check it out.....Have not been extremely impressed with it so far and I hope I get the "wow" t/c factor I am looking for with SS. I already made 2 of the same of my fav Claptons about 12" long sections of Ni and Ti....will be comparing them all purely for science

 

[JERUS]

I'm with you Vapeswapshop, A lot of the concern on these metals are the effects that come from situations you simply won't come across unless you mistreat your coils. That said the beauty of SS is it's durability. The biggest thing is dry firing to clean is completely ok, the same can't really be said for nickel, doing that is when you start to get into the question realm, either you snap/melt(weaken to drooping) your coil or you just overheat it and enter into that "hmm if I do this too much it might cause some of those concerns". So SS is nice for that. And it lasts freakin forever.

All the concerns I've seen have the addendum "if you heat till till X point" and we just don't do that especially with TC. So why is it an issue. People who have issues with Nickel where wearing a belt with nickel causes allergic reactions can still vape it without an issue, why is that? because they're not inhaling the metal, they're just using it as a heating element. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm applying the same "innocent till proven guilty" logic to the metal as we do people. I mean it's worth taking into consideration and if potentially safer alternatives can satisfy you, why not, but if that's what gets your goat, well I'm far from convinced it's an issue.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

It is easy enough to work with as it is but it is a very springy wire, and yes the roll would spring out if you let it go, but why would you want to let it go?

NO ONE EVER LETS GO ON PURPOSE!!! but boy does it suck when you do, the only thing I really like about titanium is its durability and building with it. If I let the spool go its quite manageable....

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

It is easy enough to work with as it is but it is a very springy wire, and yes the roll would spring out if you let it go, but why would you want to let it go?

I'm with you Vapeswapshop, A lot of the concern on these metals are the effects that come from situations you simply won't come across unless you mistreat your coils. That said the beauty of SS is it's durability. The biggest thing is dry firing to clean is completely ok, the same can't really be said for nickel, doing that is when you start to get into the question realm, either you snap/melt(weaken to drooping) your coil or you just overheat it and enter into that "hmm if I do this too much it might cause some of those concerns". So SS is nice for that. And it lasts freakin forever.

All the concerns I've seen have the addendum "if you heat till till X point" and we just don't do that especially with TC. So why is it an issue. People who have issues with Nickel where wearing a belt with nickel causes allergic reactions can still vape it without an issue, why is that? because they're not inhaling the metal, they're just using it as a heating element. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm applying the same "innocent till proven guilty" logic to the metal as we do people. I mean it's worth taking into consideration and if potentially safer alternatives can satisfy you, why not, but if that's what gets your goat, well I'm far from convinced it's an issue.

Thanks for the input I really appreciate hearing different outlooks!! I am excited to try dry burning as I never did any complex kanthal builds or dry burned with t/c metals as it seemed counter productive with the dangers of it until now. I really love a wire that will save me money, so if it lasts longest and stays clean tasting too I'm sold lol. Honestly I care just as much about the time, quality and money aspect right now as safety for the simple fact that I still see any of these wires treating me better than a cigarette would!!!

 

[Vapomizer]

Thanks for the input I really appreciate hearing different outlooks!! I am excited to try dry burning as I never did any complex kanthal builds or dry burned with t/c metals as it seemed counter productive with the dangers of it until now. I really love a wire that will save me money, so if it lasts longest and stays clean tasting too I'm sold lol. Honestly I care just as much about the time, quality and money aspect right now as safety for the simple fact that I still see any of these wires treating me better than a cigarette would!!!

Wires are the least expensive component of vaping a 10m spool of YOUDE STAINLESS STEEL 316L WIRE sell for $1.5 in china and $5 in the US, that would last you a little over one year if you build a new dual coils every two weeks, this is not the best place to talk about money, costs and saving because, wire is cheaaaaaaaap

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

Wires are the least expensive component of vaping a 10m spool of YOUDE STAINLESS STEEL 316L WIRE sell for $1.5 in china and $5 in the US, that would last you a little over one year if you build a new dual coils every two weeks, this is not the best place to talk about money, costs and saving because, wire is cheaaaaaaaap

ok but take into account with claptons or complex builds I will be using more wire. Honestly the time of making them, and how often I have to make or swap them, is worth more than the actual money. Now that I think about it wire is the only thing I have bought in the last six months for vaping other than my DIY flavorings/supplies which have already paid for themselves and then some! I thought I was gonna end up more in the hole buying vaping stuff at stores than I did with cigs and I JUST got to put that back into my pocket now so I am happy enough to spend some here and there. I just Dont wanna suck myself back into wasting time and money though, been there done that!!

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

in the vaping perspective it may be new but in the time its been used for heating and inhalation of liquids it is well documented by pharmacology.

On topic though I do like this fact you threw out there and would like to hear a bit more about it raymo, as it may help ease scares a bit earlier in a conversation about wire safety.....just if someone is reading through this thread. I'll have to say I was disappointed how little I found online about actually comparing the metals in vaping terms and would like to have more free and open discussions that people can read up on......since I did hear this was THE place for such things!!

 

[JERUS]

One thing about SS, I always torch it before use, if I don't it has a funk that takes a while to go away, if I torch it nice and good it's gone very quickly and then great tasting for hundreds of mL of juice.

 

[Vapomizer]

One thing about SS, I always torch it before use, if I don't it has a funk that takes a while to go away, if I torch it nice and good it's gone very quickly and then great tasting for hundreds of mL of juice.

I have had the same exact observation, without torching it does not function or taste right, i also pulse it before wicking, this gives me the best performance

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

One thing about SS, I always torch it before use, if I don't it has a funk that takes a while to go away, if I torch it nice and good it's gone very quickly and then great tasting for hundreds of mL of juice.

I am glad you guys told me that, I am not too familiar with doin the torching way but def looking forward to it as I hear compressed coils are where its at. Also have you guys cleaned the wire before hand, just wondering if that could be an issue? Do you think it would fix the prob if I bought it annealed or tempered since it is what torching it is basically doing anyway? Gonna watch some videos, but if you guys got any tips for working with it or torching it lmk...

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

I have had the same exact observation, without torching it does not function or taste right, i also pulse it before wicking, this gives me the best performance

Also I am having the same problems with Ti and cant really do much about that.....what if I use a blow torch on the strand of Ti before I make a coil?

 

[JERUS]

I am glad you guys told me that, I am not too familiar with doin the torching way but def looking forward to it as I hear compressed coils are where its at. Also have you guys cleaned the wire before hand, just wondering if that could be an issue? Do you think it would fix the prob if I bought it annealed or tempered since it is what torching it is basically doing anyway? Gonna watch some videos, but if you guys got any tips for working with it or torching it lmk...

Rinsed, rinsed and soap, neither made a difference. Torching was it. A lighter works though worth splurging and spending an extra dollar for one of those little torch lighters as it'll do the trick faster. The flavor does go away eventually but takes a while when it's all set up in a tank. And Dry firing doesn't seem to do the trick, you have to get the legs too. I've started torching the wire before I wrap but I also torch afterwards so I'm not sure how much it's actually doing.

No clue on the annealed/tempered, I just bought what i could find and after figuring out that it had quite a bit of "work in" time and torching sped that up dramatically I've had no issues.

 

[VAPESWAPSHOP]

Rinsed, rinsed and soap, neither made a difference. Torching was it. A lighter works though worth splurging and spending an extra dollar for one of those little torch lighters as it'll do the trick faster. The flavor does go away eventually but takes a while when it's all set up in a tank. And Dry firing doesn't seem to do the trick, you have to get the legs too. I've started torching the wire before I wrap but I also torch afterwards so I'm not sure how much it's actually doing.

No clue on the annealed/tempered, I just bought what i could find and after figuring out that it had quite a bit of "work in" time and torching sped that up dramatically I've had no issues.

Great tips, should I get the wire red with the torch or just heat it up a bit? Even after the pre-coil torch AND the after torch you STILL have the taste!? but just not as bad or for as long I guess?

 

[JERUS]

Just a starting to glow orange seems to do the trick well enough. If I torch the wire flavor is gone by the time the cotton flavor is worked out of the wick, so it's not really much of a concern (a handful of pulls). Without it I'd get the flavor for a full tank on some setups.