Sigelei 150W TC- Firing in TC mode without nickel?

[BreeZyCloudZ]

So I recently bought the Sigelei 150w tc and been looking up some stuff and it says it will only work in temp mode with either nickel or titanium, but i whipped up a quick spiral wire build of kanthal, SS, and Ni80 and its firing fine. It seems to be holding temp as well. Is this normal? And is this safe? Just thought it was very strange.

 

[TF Vaping]

I believe the chipset gets confused. While I don't know the difference in the sigelei and the snow wolf (don't care really) my snow wolf snaps into temp mode on kanthal and even Stainless now and then, holds it until I unscrew the Atty and reset.

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[BreeZyCloudZ]

I believe the chipset gets confused. While I don't know the difference in the sigelei and the snow wolf (don't care really) my snow wolf snaps into temp mode on kanthal and even Stainless now and then, holds it until I unscrew the Atty and reset.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

So its fine and will work?

 

[TF Vaping]

So its fine and will work?

My snow wolf has been doing it for weeks now, since I got it. I assume all is well. Every other function is perfect. If the company you got it from has a warranty process you could probably get it swapped out, I just attribute it to the auto sensing of the material used. Surely it can't work off a target impedance, probably not even a time from cool to hot. I believe its just new idea/technology that hasn't got all the bugs worked out yet.

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[BreeZyCloudZ]

My snow wolf has been doing it for weeks now, since I got it. I assume all is well. Every other function is perfect. If the company you got it from has a warranty process you could probably get it swapped out, I just attribute it to the auto sensing of the material used. Surely it can't work off a target impedance, probably not even a time from cool to hot. I believe its just new idea/technology that hasn't got all the bugs worked out yet.

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Well if it works, id rather not swap it out, itd be better if i could put anything in it, i have titanium otw though, but do you prefer tc or vw?

 

[TF Vaping]

Well if it works, id rather not swap it out, itd be better if i could put anything in it, i have titanium otw though, but do you prefer tc or vw?

Tc seems to be the winner for me, battery last longer and I can limit the terrible dry hit lol.
I did a small review on a mod I got off ft that TC's every wire and I love it. It'd probably replace my snow wolf if it was a double 18650. It is set on TC regardless switching and swapping the snow wolf just does whatever it feels like I guess.
Is your SIG that way or is it consistent with staying in tc swapping attys ?


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[BreeZyCloudZ]

Tc seems to be the winner for me, battery last longer and I can limit the terrible dry hit lol.
I did a small review on a mod I got off ft that TC's every wire and I love it. It'd probably replace my snow wolf if it was a double 18650. It is set on TC regardless switching and swapping the snow wolf just does whatever it feels like I guess.
Is your SIG that way or is it consistent with staying in tc swapping attys ?


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Well i just started messing with it tonight and ive taken my atty out and put it back in and ive reset the atty for it, and its keeps onna chuckin

 

[PaulS]

I use my RDAs with builds below .2 Ohm in TC on my Sigelei because it will fire them without issue. I am currently sitting a Doge 2 on top with a .12 build at 75 joules/watts. In power mode it tells me the build is too low. I have a a mod that fires 150 watts! Too low? So I trick my sigelei 150 TC all the time. Don't be fooled though. It is not using temp control. It just shoots up to your wattage.

 

[Powerman]

"Firing" your atty, and temp controlling your coil are two different things. SS is too different than other coils. Unless your mod has a specific mode for SS, or a user adjustable TCR, your mod is not temp controlling your coil regardless what you think. And it's not even close if you think you are fooling it.

 

[BreeZyCloudZ]

So what is happening? Because i can definately tell it is controlling the temp of my coils. If i switch over to wattage, it just gets hotter and hotter like normally. When i put it in temp mode, i can hold the button down and it stays controlled. I dont get a dry hit and it seems like the TC is pretty much working with these coils

 

[Powerman]

SS TCR is 6 times smaller than Ni and Ti. The rise in resistance for temp is very narrow. So using Ti/Ni TCR it will not ever get to the point of limiting. That also means that with the 10 degree accuracy of normal boxes expands to 60. My guess is you are doing full power in power mode, and you are limited to joule output in TC mode. But I don't know what that is for your box. It's not like Ti. You can't just shift temp scale a bit like other boxes do. SS TCR is so different you have to shift temp scale outside the range of the chip. Meaning you would have to set a temp of like -100 to get it to a usable rage and then you would be +/- 60F. Very big window. And you can't input -100.

 

[BreeZyCloudZ]

This guy kinda explained it to me

"its doing what it can with the parameters you set when you que'd it in... you either have a lowish ohm build and the software is accepting it, but not really doing its job properly.... the software takes into account the resistance of nickel wire to be a standard, so it takes that info and when you set the temp it reads the resistance and then varies the voltage to the coil in an attempt to match what resistance the coil should be at at a specific voltage

kinda like having software in your car for cruise control... the software sez your engine should be at 2000 rpm in 5th gear to be going 70mph. If you force the gear to be in 4th, the engine will rev up higher to make the car go 70mph. By using a higher ohm per inch wire ( instead of Ni orTi) the chip will make the system work differently.... you will still go 70, but your gas mileage will be terrible"

 

[Powerman]

I have no idea what that analogy has to do with this situation.... has nothing to do with "gas mileage"... it won't work.

With a starting resistance of .50 ohms, at room temp of 70F.... the resistance rise for SS is only .16 ohm all the way to 800F. .5-.66 ohm... 70F-800F

For the same coil of nickel... .5 ohm, that .16 rise in resistance correlates to a 130F rise in temp. .5-.65 ohm... 70F-200F

Your SS coil is never rising enough for your TC to kick in. It does not matter what gear you are in. It's doing nothing. It is waiting for a resistance rise that never comes. That same .5 ohm nickel coil has a resistance rise of just under 1 ohm to get a corresponding temp of 600F.

You "might" be able to use a .15 Ni coil... set the resistance at room temp... then switch to a SS coil at say .25-.30 ohm... WITHOUT resetting resistance and get it into the ball park of a usable temp. I don't know what the limits of the Sigelei box are... HOWEVER, even if you got it into that window... actual, accurate temp control would be pretty useless.... because a .1 ohm rise in resistance for Nickle is 200F... and again, the entire temp range for SS from 70-800F is .16 ohm. So maybe temp control circuit would limit at some point, but who knows what actual temp is... could be 800F actual temp.

But that isn't what is happening with you. Because you said you are resetting resistance every time you switch atomizers. So in TC, with a SS coil, your box is putting out max output you set... joules/watts... because it never temp limits. My only guess is that your output is set lower in TC than in Power mode giving you the false sense that it is limiting temp. When in reality if you set the same out put in power mode it would be the same.
Again, I don't know your box. I know my D2 that I tried to get to work by faking it. No go. It does 50J in TC, and 75W in power. But the temp limits and resistance limits can't be juked to give a usable window.

You have to have a box that has a TCR curve for SS, or a user adjustable TCR. The Sigelie does not have either. Ni and Titanium are very close. Same linear curve, just offset by about 40-50F. So lots of folks used Ti before the box had a Ti curve just because they were so close. SS is in a completely different ball park. Hope that helps.

 

[Powerman]

F#@%#... I had a reply and it disappeared.... urgggghhh! For the second time....

That analogy has nothing to do with anything. I have no idea what that means. It has nothing to do with wasting gas or what gear you are in... it won't work.

A SS coil with a .5 ohm resistance at 70F room temp has a resistance rise of JUST .16 ohm to 800F. .5-.66 ohm... 70-800F That is the entire range we need to limit in TC

That same Ni coil of .5 ohm, at 70F has a resistance rise of 1.25 ohm to get to 800F. .5-1.75 ohm 70F-800F. Ni has a resistance range 10 times that of SS

So when you use Ni, and set your temp to say 400F, that is a corresponding resistance rise of .47 ohm. The SS coil will never get to .47... except maybe at 2000F. That same .16 rise in resistance for SS on your Ni coil would equal 200F. Your box thinks its only 200F... and never kicks into TC limit. It's not limiting temp.

You "might" be able to put in a low resistance Ni coil at say .15 ohm... set resistance, switch to a higher resistance coil of SS at say .3 ohm WITHOUT resetting resistance and maybe get into a usable window. Maybe.... but accurate actual temp control would be useless. Your box thinks it's at 400F and limits power output, but actual temp could be 800F.

Ni and Ti are very similar with pretty equal linear curves just with a temp offset of about 100F. So people can use Ti without a Ti curve just by offsetting temp down. But SS is not even in the same area code as Ni/Ti... completely different animal. You have to have a SS curve set in your box, or be able to input a TCR to have TC with SS. And right now, Sigelei has neither. I'm not sure what is giving you the false sense of TC on your box because I do not know the parameters of your box. But I can assure you you are not getting TC with a SS coil. You would have to set your temp limit at -100F in Ni mode to get you in the ball park.

 

[BreeZyCloudZ]

So why is is heating and saving me juice? Its working like it said temp control said it should. Im not going against what you are saying, im just trying to understand. I have Kanthal, Ni80, and SS twisted together. I have titanium otw, but that spiral wire i have in there seems to work. From what i read, it shouldnt have even fired, but its firing and working, i just wanna know if its safe and wont mess up my box. Is it going into overdrive or anything trying to heat these coils?

F#@%#... I had a reply and it disappeared.... urgggghhh! For the second time....

That analogy has nothing to do with anything. I have no idea what that means. It has nothing to do with wasting gas or what gear you are in... it won't work.

A SS coil with a .5 ohm resistance at 70F room temp has a resistance rise of JUST .16 ohm to 800F. .5-.66 ohm... 70-800F That is the entire range we need to limit in TC

That same Ni coil of .5 ohm, at 70F has a resistance rise of 1.25 ohm to get to 800F. .5-1.75 ohm 70F-800F. Ni has a resistance range 10 times that of SS

So when you use Ni, and set your temp to say 400F, that is a corresponding resistance rise of .47 ohm. The SS coil will never get to .47... except maybe at 2000F. That same .16 rise in resistance for SS on your Ni coil would equal 200F. Your box thinks its only 200F... and never kicks into TC limit. It's not limiting temp.

You "might" be able to put in a low resistance Ni coil at say .15 ohm... set resistance, switch to a higher resistance coil of SS at say .3 ohm WITHOUT resetting resistance and maybe get into a usable window. Maybe.... but accurate actual temp control would be useless. Your box thinks it's at 400F and limits power output, but actual temp could be 800F.

Ni and Ti are very similar with pretty equal linear curves just with a temp offset of about 100F. So people can use Ti without a Ti curve just by offsetting temp down. But SS is not even in the same area code as Ni/Ti... completely different animal. You have to have a SS curve set in your box, or be able to input a TCR to have TC with SS. And right now, Sigelei has neither. I'm not sure what is giving you the false sense of TC on your box because I do not know the parameters of your box. But I can assure you you are not getting TC with a SS coil. You would have to set your temp limit at -100F in Ni mode to get you in the ball park.

 

[BreeZyCloudZ]

It's unlikely to have any damaging effect on the mod.

You haven't said what res the coil came out to, what gauges of the 3 wires you used and coil size or what TC mode and set temp you're using.

Yes, SS can work in Ti mode, in the same way Ti can be used in Ni mode. But it throws the mod off as to the real temp vs. the set temp. Different res rise of the different wires, but the mod doesn't know that.

As I said... if the SS is the lowest res of the 3, that's the one the mod "sees". It's possible to TC that, though imprecisely, and you're just guessing what the actual combo coil temp is.
And dry hit prevention is probably off the table.

The kan, ni80, ss, are all 26G, wrapped around 2mm, dual coils, it started around .2, its around .35-.4 now, and the dry hit is working. Wouldnt fire earlier said "dry coil no liquid"

 

[Powerman]

So why is is heating and saving me juice? Its working like it said temp control said it should. Im not going against what you are saying, im just trying to understand. I have Kanthal, Ni80, and SS twisted together. I have titanium otw, but that spiral wire i have in there seems to work. From what i read, it shouldnt have even fired, but its firing and working, i just wanna know if its safe and wont mess up my box. Is it going into overdrive or anything trying to heat these coils?

Honestly, I don't know. I don't know enough about muti material coils. Seems to me, if you do multi materials, you would need to do each material in a equal resistance build. Otherwise current will pass through least resistance component. It's possible it's only working on the nickel. Yes it is all conductive, but not equally. But again, I really don't know complex coil builds.

It's also possible to shift the scale by using different resistance, but you don't really know true temp. I learned this trying to get crown coils to work in my D2. But I don't know all boxes. Most have a usable range of 200-600F. My D2 limits resistance in TC to 0.3 ohms, but not all do. So I couldn't get mine to work with the limits of my parameters. But now understanding more, it's difficult.

Yihi updated the 350j to user adjustable TCR. That's what I have now. Plus a VS DNA 200 on the way. But while I can put in a TCR for SS, I'm not sure the sample frequency of the 350j chip is as fast or as accurate as the DNA. It works, but the SS margin is so narrow it might not be built to maximize SS TC. Who knows.

What you need to do is a burn test with your build. Set to 420F and see what happens. Or start at 200 and work it up to see where cotton starts burning. You would at least get an idea.

You box isn't going to be damaged. It will put out what it will put out. It's protected. But your TC isn't working how it should. Or it isn't working on the wire you think it is. Make a build with only SS and you will see what I'm talking about.

I assume you use Steam Engine? Look up wire TCRs on Steam engine and you will see what I'm talking about.