Become a Patron!

So VTC4s aren't worth buying due to risk of fakes, but LG has saved us.

NickyGiaccone

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
I've been using Liionwholesale.com Sony VTC4s for quite some time. Once they were taken off of the site completely, I realized, it's over. The LG line of new high amp 18650s are better if you choose the correct cells for your type of vaping. Liionwholesale doesn't currently have LG HB4s in stock but these are the ones I found independent research showing slightly longer life and better performance for average regulated box mod applications. HB2s are shown not to be true 30amp cells and HB6s are going to run out of life very quickly without much improvement for a .15ohm sumohming vaper using less than 120W. I've been using the HB4s since I got a new upgraded RX200 "S" version which is more solid and has my TFV4 sitting flush atop the beastly device. I'm getting more clouds than I was with the original RX200 when I used three VTC4s and also more evenly power hits without drop off so far. I don't recommend even thinking about Sony batteries anymore now that there is an LG for each vaper. LG HD2 cells are 2000mAH with 25amps continuous and 3.6 nominal volts. This battery is for the .4ohm clapton crowd or .3ohm kanhal vaper not approaching the 90W mark at all. For my .2ohm and .15ohm 110W Kanthal vaping on a TFV4, these weren't the cells appropriate for me. LG HB4s are seeming to own and no setup I've ever had compares to this combo. Forget the Sony's. Why risk it when HB4s and HB6s are not going to poop out as soon as VTC4s and HB4s don't seem have much shorter life regardless of the specs. I Think LG saved us because devices are suggesting "over 25 amp continuous discharge cells" for the mods. The HD2s are 25amps and HB4s and HB6s are 30amps. It looks like true subohming is going to matter heavily on the batteries you chose. And the risk is too great if one were purchasing VTC4s from even reputable sites because liionwholesale has nothing to do with their sale, and that basically scares me out of wasting money on now inferior cells.
 

Angrygod50

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Not long ago Jon (liionwholesale) posted that Sony sent notice to all the dealers that they didn't want there batteries sold for vaping. So as existing stock dries up the only Sony's sold are likely going to be fakes.
 

robot zombie

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I wonder if they still sell to vendors that don't really have the association with vaping... ...how do they feel about the flashlight guys?

Vaping is probably going to evolve to a point where the current demands placed on the batteries will be lower. High voltage seems to be the way to go when it comes to safety and power efficiency. Sub-ohming way down is still popular (I still do it occasionally, myself,) but as viable batteries become scarcer, we may see a decline there. Who knows? Could be interesting.

It's hard to know whether or not to take Sony seriously on things like this. They've pulled these stunts before... ...even lied and said there were no genuine VTC's on the market, when measurements of stock from many vendors suggested otherwise. Or maybe they were old stock and Sony didn't know about it. But if the latter was the case, then that raises an interesting question...

...what I wonder about is how much oversight they have over their own supply once it enters the market. I mean, how many vendors that we buy from buy directly from Sony? I just figure most of them go through a third party wholesaler, who no doubt supplies many vendors and manufacturers. Maybe they can get through to those guys, but how do you tell a wholesaler who moves a ton of your product who not to do business with? Can Sony really afford to take these measures? I just see there being a lot of strained relationships all the way down the chain. Sony's a big company, but I reckon most people who run successful operations would say that intentionally restricting the market posthumously is a bad idea. They would have to come up with a more elegant solution than the one I'm presenting. And perhaps in their time spent biding, they have. For all I know, these things happen all of the time.

Unfortunately what I see happening is that legitimate vendors with respect for the industry will stop selling Sonys, leaving shady ones to pick up the demand. And with them, you really never know what you're getting. There would be a good chance that they would be real, but do they publish measurements? Do they even have the equipment?

I dunno, I'm not an inside guy, so this is all hearsay. Maybe a sprinkle of wishful thinking. I'm trying to be realistic here. Cataclysmic events are rare by definition.

Maybe they will just start selling them only to manufacturers. That would suck. But honestly, for most applications, there have been better batteries than VTC4's (and especially VTC5's) for quite some time now. They have excellent capacity for upper-limit drain, but that's about it. The majority of vapers don't really benefit from this.

I understand that they are excellent on the technicalities (truly the benchmark battery,) but in real-life applications, most would not be able to tell the difference unless it was pointed out to them. Sometimes, I think that they continue to be common only for their legacy and reputation for reliability. I frequently see people running their VTC4's in mid to lower-drain applications... ...just because.

I doubt they'll completely vanish just like that, but the prices would jump. Counterfeits would be super easy to get a hold of. Probably a good time to start looking at replacing your Sonys if they're your workhorses. Maybe even look at changing your whole setup to work with 20A batteries. There are plenty of top-performing 20A cells out there... ...many more than there are decent 30's, most of which are fairly new, application specific, and not quite up to the demands that our methods place on them. Better to run a very good 20A cell up towards its limits than it is to run an average 30A cell up past 25A.

It's a matter of efficacy. Current is not the one true path to power. A happier battery gives you a better vape. If anything, the goal should always be to minimize current draw as much as possible without sacrificing performance. It's a simple matter of tuning your setup to your battery choice - and it can easily be done.

High voltage is getting more popular these days. There's always good old fashioned parallel unregulated, too. Nobody needs 30A cells for their ADV. It's just one of several ways to approach higher power levels. Maybe the loss of the venerable VTC4 would be just the push that the industry needs to reach more towards higher-voltage, lower-current, high-wattage vapes.

Super-low sub-ohming, I think, took hold because of its simplicity. It's easy to put together a tube mod or a parallel box, drop some high drain cells in, and vape away on a .15. Anybody can do it. In the grassroots, boutique climate of the past, that was the way to go. The hardware was simpler and the functionality more streamlined. Easier to mass-manufacture and operate.

But now, with more intricate, intuitive and capable rigs becoming commonplace, it is slowly becoming obsolete. As a mech user myself, this is a little upsetting, but like I said before, it would be interesting to see how manufacturers would evolve in light of a scarcity of viable 30A cells.

Honestly, since moving on to series, I don't even want to go back to the .1-.2 range anymore. I used to vape .16's on tube mods all day, every day. Now, I'm happier to vape anywhere from .5-.8 in series. Don't really need 30A cells for that, but the performance between the two methods is comparable. The latter just happens to be significantly easier on the batteries.

And now we have 12v, 3-battery mods in the spotlight. That voltage will get a lot done for less. A triple-cell regulated device with fresh batteries generates 220w for 17A. A single-battery or parallel device needs 52A going to a .08 to accomplish that.

There's something lower-current for everyone. It's just a matter of how willing people are to adapt. Maybe it's about time. The tech is there.
 
Last edited:

BoomStick

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I've been using Liionwholesale.com Sony VTC4s for quite some time. Once they were taken off of the site completely, I realized, it's over. The LG line of new high amp 18650s are better if you choose the correct cells for your type of vaping. Liionwholesale doesn't currently have LG HB4s in stock but these are the ones I found independent research showing slightly longer life and better performance for average regulated box mod applications. HB2s are shown not to be true 30amp cells and HB6s are going to run out of life very quickly without much improvement for a .15ohm sumohming vaper using less than 120W. I've been using the HB4s since I got a new upgraded RX200 "S" version which is more solid and has my TFV4 sitting flush atop the beastly device. I'm getting more clouds than I was with the original RX200 when I used three VTC4s and also more evenly power hits without drop off so far. I don't recommend even thinking about Sony batteries anymore now that there is an LG for each vaper. LG HD2 cells are 2000mAH with 25amps continuous and 3.6 nominal volts. This battery is for the .4ohm clapton crowd or .3ohm kanhal vaper not approaching the 90W mark at all. For my .2ohm and .15ohm 110W Kanthal vaping on a TFV4, these weren't the cells appropriate for me. LG HB4s are seeming to own and no setup I've ever had compares to this combo. Forget the Sony's. Why risk it when HB4s and HB6s are not going to poop out as soon as VTC4s and HB4s don't seem have much shorter life regardless of the specs. I Think LG saved us because devices are suggesting "over 25 amp continuous discharge cells" for the mods. The HD2s are 25amps and HB4s and HB6s are 30amps. It looks like true subohming is going to matter heavily on the batteries you chose. And the risk is too great if one were purchasing VTC4s from even reputable sites because liionwholesale has nothing to do with their sale, and that basically scares me out of wasting money on now inferior cells.
Build resistance has jack shit to do with the load placed on the batteries when using a variable wattage mod.
 

NickyGiaccone

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Build resistance has jack shit to do with the load placed on the batteries when using a variable wattage mod.
Okay. You may be right but I perceive that 30amp cells kick harder on many vw devices. My perception though may not be reality. hmmm
 

robot zombie

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Okay. You may be right but I perceive that 30amp cells kick harder on many vw devices. My perception though may not be reality. hmmm
It shouldn't matter. Does a VW device hit noticeably harder at 100% than it does at 50%? I personally don't notice a difference.

Regulated mods work by pulling the amount of current that is needed from the battery in order to hit the specified wattage at the battery's voltage. This is sort of a discreet circuit - it does all of this before the power is fed to the coil. Meaning, if one type of battery sags lower than another, then it will simply start to pull more current than it would from the "harder-hitting" batteries before feeding the correct voltage and current to the coil. Battery sag isn't a problem because the mod compensates.

Either way, you get the same wattage on the other end - same voltage and same current, regardless of how the battery gives you the power. It could kick out less current and more voltage or vice versa and the output going to the coil would still be the same voltage and current. This is why regulated devices don't roll off when you hold the button down. The battery voltage is decreasing more and more, but the device is pulling increasingly more current to maintain the wattage in real-time.

Capacity is another matter. A battery that holds its voltage for longer will last longer, even if the voltage under load is lower than that of another battery. Even though a VTC4 will initially have a little less sag than a 25r at 150w, the 25r will last longer. And again, even though one punches softer doesn't mean the other will hit differently. The VTC4 will just have to give more current sooner.

I mean, these devices aren't perfect, so maybe there is something to it. None are 100% efficient, but they're pretty close. I just think it would be highly unlikely that there would be a perceptible difference. We're talking between 95 and 99 percent power transfer. As long as the buck converter is consistently doing its job of stepping voltage down to current and the device is getting accurate voltage readings, the wattage should be consistent with different batteries, just as it would be across the span of a pulse or a discharge cycle.

Might be interesting to test the output of the same regulated mod with different batteries and see if the wattage varies. I wonder how much a buck converter's efficiency might vary depending on how much voltage/current it's getting. I'm guessing not much, but that might depend on the mod's chip implementation. I could see there being some subtle sweet spots in terms of optimal battery voltage and IR. There may be other aspects of the circuit that affect responsiveness to changes in battery voltage, as well. Component quality may play a role in making mods finicky. Or perhaps the topology of the chip itself causes inconsistencies. But if any of this were the case, I'd have to imagine that they're consistently inconsistent, regardless the battery - i.e., one battery seems to hit harder one day, while the other one hits harder the next.
 
Last edited:

NickyGiaccone

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
I got 3 VTC4s from IMRBATTERIES and they're real. The amperage is 23.4 and the RX200S vaping .16ohm clapton TF-T8 coils on the TFV4 tank at 110W pushes the limit onscreen. Looks like it would use more amperage if allowed. I tried with LG HB4 mustard 30amp cells and it topped off onscreen at 24.4 amps but who knows how accurate the device or even a display is. I Have LG HD4s which are more fragile than the HB-series in terms of potential wrapper rippling. My HB4s are like all one with the wrapper and cell underneath. Never could rip it would appear at least. I want the HB2s then a NiteCore D4 charger to adjust speeds because I hate waiting. I chain vape on the Koopor Primus 300W, RX200S, and the Hcigar VT200 DNA 200 mod. It's simple to vape wattage mode. Just check NEVER use temperature mode. and no TCR or coil setting is needed. It hits like the Koopor Primus on HARD MAGIC mode so could burn out coils quickly more than usual but more vapor, less flavor, which is correlated with slower ramp ups and lighter hits of vapor initially. But At least my DNA 200 mod has the official Hcigar 1300mAH 3-s Lipo upgrade and 200W is WAY more than I'll need for the next 5 months AT LEAST. I use the VTC4 charger and it's slower than my buddy's D4 charger so I'm grabbing that from IMRBATTERIES when I get the HB2s and pink HB6s since they are hard as hell to ruin the wrapping or any aspect of the battery besides dropping, inappropriate temp storage, or water contact. HD4s I had taken as the same type of built cell and they're old school. My VTC4s are 23.4amps and mooch stated they're not really 30amps. HB4 Mustard 30 amp/1500(some say 1600mAH) running in parallel as a set of three in the Koopor Primus is long lasting and the overall voltage per battery can be checked via main menu. It's nice on it's own. Shimmering Stainless Steel looking Zinc alloy with NO battery door issues on my model. It's very very secure. In fact a bit of a nuisance to remove. Just don't let your TFV8 have it's 50/50 chance of bad coils and or tank release leak into the battery hatch or into the vents on both sides. I love it but the RX200S is more portable. I keep the Prmus on my table while PC gaming on the big screen and the TFV4 new black stainless updated model that's flawess running TF-T9s at 100W on the "hard" MAGIC mode setting. Voltage may drop but not too low with HD4s or HB4s. Can't wait for HDC2s and HB2s. Peace. If I used profanity briefly accidentally am I able to pose a thorough review of the mod from an average consumer perspective?
 

NickyGiaccone

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Okay. You may be right but I perceive that 30amp cells kick harder on many vw devices. My perception though may not be reality. hmmm
The RX200S reads that VTC4s 23 amps could be less than what would likely be 24.8amp 110W .16ohms. 4.02Vx3 batteries.
 

VU Sponsors

Top