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THE FDA DROPS THE HAMMER: A SEMI BAN OR SEMI WIN?

VaporJoe

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So here we are. The FDA has made the ruling and everyone was on the edge of their seat.

What we have is a semi-ban. The best possible senario under the circumstances.

Pod systems with fruit flavors will be banned. "Tank Systems" (anything other then pod systems) will remain untouched.

When pod systems first hit the market I was very against them. I knew it was going to take vaping out of the hands of the community and into the hands of convenience stores.

However, as time passed I grew to love the idea of pod systems


I really don't see how they can actually enforce it. Empty pod's can be filled with anything. I think the only people it will really effect are those that market prefilled pod carts.


However, this is a minor victory. In 4 months the real sh"t hit's the fan when

PMTA's start. We are hoping to gain momentum from this "win" to stall or stop this upcoming threat.

http://www.vapeban.com




v-tJhdm-T7w


Click here to get more information on this deal....
 

The Cromwell

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Is this final? what I saw was somewhat still speculation with final word yet to come.
And will it include all sealed pod systems? rebuildable pod systems?
 

The Cromwell

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Yeah how will they define all this?
Good question, I expect court action over it.
the FDA cannot selectively ban brands I think, or where something is sold.

I will wait for the official release I think.
 

nadalama

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For our government to come up with that solution almost makes TOO much sense. It is far more thoughtful and directed than most things they choose to do these days.

I am optimistic that that's where the issue will rest, at least for a while. Perhaps this will signal a bit of a reprieve even in the deeming regs in May, since now we see that where the true concern lies with the current administration is with the outcome of the 2020 election, not with the health of the children or (ex-)smokers of the United States.

I Vape I Vote has accomplished its intent, clearly.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Looks to me like the jobs issue is what really won out here, when talking to the administration.
That and the statement that prohibition doesnt work.
 

JuicyLucy

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I still oppose any kind of ban and won't be cheering if this happens

It still stings, that legislation that was proposed a couple of years back that would "save" vaping, but outlaw mechs...I was shocked and angered how many of my fellow vapers were willing to throw us mech users under the bus because it "saved" their style of vaping

Shame, shame, shame
 

The Cromwell

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I still oppose any kind of ban and won't be cheering if this happens

It still stings, that legislation that was proposed a couple of years back that would "save" vaping, but outlaw mechs...I was shocked and angered how many of my fellow vapers were willing to throw us mech users under the bus because it "saved" their style of vaping

Shame, shame, shame
Seem like it also moved the grandfather date to 8-8-2016 but anything after that was still PMTA as well?
Which woul still be pretty much all that is sold now.

or am I confused again?
 

JuicyLucy

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Seem like it also moved the grandfather date to 8-8-2016 but anything after that was still PMTA as well?
Which woul still be pretty much all that is sold now.

or am I confused again?

So basically worthless - attie tech in particular really took off after that date o_O
 

f1r3b1rd

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I still oppose any kind of ban and won't be cheering if this happens

It still stings, that legislation that was proposed a couple of years back that would "save" vaping, but outlaw mechs...I was shocked and angered how many of my fellow vapers were willing to throw us mech users under the bus because it "saved" their style of vaping

Shame, shame, shame
Where does this effect mechs?
 

JuicyLucy

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Where does this effect mechs?

As far as I know it does not -

What I am saying, is that there was a proposal a few years ago that woulda banned mechs but allowed regulated vapes and A WHOLE LOT of vapers were cheering it on because it saved them, and to hell with mech users

I felt betrayed by my fellow vapers on that - so no way am I going to cheer on outlawing any kind of vaping, even if it does not affect me
 

f1r3b1rd

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As far as I know it does not -

What I am saying, is that there was a proposal a few years ago that woulda banned mechs but allowed regulated vapes and A WHOLE LOT of vapers were cheering it on because it saved them, and to hell with mech users

I felt betrayed by my fellow vapers on that - so no way am I going to cheer on outlawing any kind of vaping, even if it does not affect me
Gotcha, I must’ve missed that one somehow
 

lordmage

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If I recall correctly the May 12 date was an agreed upon date between the court and FDA?
you recall correctly it was part of that process the FDA said they needed time and other things in place to be able to handle the volume of Application's and the judge agreed that May 2020 was the most reasonable among the other choices that could have been ordered.
 

The Cromwell

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you recall correctly it was part of that process the FDA said they needed time and other things in place to be able to handle the volume of Application's and the judge agreed that May 2020 was the most reasonable among the other choices that could have been ordered.
Soi I assume that the court would not take kindly to the FDA begging for more time now?
 

bobnat

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I still oppose any kind of ban and won't be cheering if this happens

It still stings, that legislation that was proposed a couple of years back that would "save" vaping, but outlaw mechs...I was shocked and angered how many of my fellow vapers were willing to throw us mech users under the bus because it "saved" their style of vaping

Shame, shame, shame

I think mechs are my next step. I very well may be moving back to the US this year. If so. I believe mechs will allow me to vape without having to worry about hardware. I know it's just a matter of time before all my regulated mods give out.
 

JuicyLucy

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I think mechs are my next step. I very well may be moving back to the US this year. If so. I believe mechs will allow me to vape without having to worry about hardware. I know it's just a matter of time before all my regulated mods give out.

I firmly believe anyone who intends to keep vaping regardless needs to have (and learn how to use safely) at least one decent quality mech
 

f1r3b1rd

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I think mechs are my next step. I very well may be moving back to the US this year. If so. I believe mechs will allow me to vape without having to worry about hardware. I know it's just a matter of time before all my regulated mods give out.
Big time! I stupidly sold all of my mechs last year. Now I’m slowly starting to gather a couple as insurance policies.
 

The Cromwell

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Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register, the FDA intends to prioritize enforcement against these illegally marketed ENDS products by focusing on the following groups of products that do not have premarket authorization:

  • Any flavored, cartridge-based ENDS product (other than a tobacco- or menthol-flavored ENDS product);
  • All other ENDS products for which the manufacturer has failed to take (or is failing to take) adequate measures to prevent minors’ access; and
  • Any ENDS product that is targeted to minors or likely to promote use of ENDS by minors.
Cartridge-based ENDS products are a type of ENDS product that consists of, includes, or involves a cartridge or pod that holds liquid that is to be aerosolized when the product is used. For purposes of this policy, a cartridge or pod is any small, enclosed unit (sealed or unsealed) designed to fit within or operate as part of an ENDS product.

My take is that only prefilled tobacco and menthol will be allowed.
 

The Cromwell

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The guidance also states that, after May 12, 2020, the FDA intends to also prioritize enforcement against any ENDS products that continue to be sold and for which the manufacturers have not submitted a premarket application. For ENDS products other than those in the three groups described above, if premarket applications are submitted by that date, the FDA intends to continue to exercise enforcement discretion for up to one year pending FDA review of the applications, unless there is a negative action by the FDA on such application or the product is authorized to be marketed by the FDA


So yep Pods and cigalikes after next May.

Pod people rejoice?

I kinda read that as tobacco, Menthol and unflavored being exempt from PMTA?
Of course the hardware and such of open systems are NOT exempt.
 

f1r3b1rd

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The guidance also states that, after May 12, 2020, the FDA intends to also prioritize enforcement against any ENDS products that continue to be sold and for which the manufacturers have not submitted a premarket application. For ENDS products other than those in the three groups described above, if premarket applications are submitted by that date, the FDA intends to continue to exercise enforcement discretion for up to one year pending FDA review of the applications, unless there is a negative action by the FDA on such application or the product is authorized to be marketed by the FDA


So yep Pods and cigalikes after next May.

Pod people rejoice?

I kinda read that as tobacco, Menthol and unflavored being exempt from PMTA?
Of course the hardware and such of open systems are NOT exempt.
I haven’t had the time to read it yet, but, is there any language to suggest open systems being targeted?
 

The Cromwell

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I haven’t had the time to read it yet, but, is there any language to suggest open systems being targeted?
It says except for the 3 groups described above. Which I take to mean tobacco flavor, menthol flavor and unflavored in pods.

read it thru thru there is no mention of open systems per sie. however they are covered under PMTA and Deeming Regs. And I figure if not specifically exempted in this then same old same old with them and PMTA.

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020...ed-flavored-cartridge-based-e-cigarettes.html
 

JuicyLucy

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Actually it was the Duncan Hunter bill (HR 2194), introduced in April 2017, after the Cole-Bishop amendment had been omitted from the annual spending bill.

Actually it was Cole Bishop first, of which elements were wrapped into the Senate bill - it was widely debated over and over on VU

Duncan Hunter was widely known and referred to as Cole Bishop amended - for well over a year
 

lordmage

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I haven’t had the time to read it yet, but, is there any language to suggest open systems being targeted?
yes i will make it bold

Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register, the FDA intends to prioritize enforcement against these illegally marketed ENDS products by focusing on the following groups of products that do not have premarket authorization:

  • Any flavored, cartridge-based ENDS product (other than a tobacco- or menthol-flavored ENDS product);
  • All other ENDS products for which the manufacturer has failed to take (or is failing to take) adequate measures to prevent minors’ access; and
  • Any ENDS product that is targeted to minors or likely to promote use of ENDS by minors.
Cartridge-based ENDS products are a type of ENDS product that consists of, includes, or involves a cartridge or pod that holds liquid that is to be aerosolized when the product is used. For purposes of this policy, a cartridge or pod is any small, enclosed unit (sealed or unsealed) designed to fit within or operate as part of an ENDS product.

For all other products (cartridge-based or otherwise), including menthol-, tobacco-, and non-flavored ENDS products, the FDA will also prioritize enforcement where the manufacturer fails to take adequate measures to prevent youth access
 

The Cromwell

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yes i will make it bold

Beginning 30 days from the publication of the notice of availability of this guidance in the Federal Register, the FDA intends to prioritize enforcement against these illegally marketed ENDS products by focusing on the following groups of products that do not have premarket authorization:

  • Any flavored, cartridge-based ENDS product (other than a tobacco- or menthol-flavored ENDS product);
  • All other ENDS products for which the manufacturer has failed to take (or is failing to take) adequate measures to prevent minors’ access; and
  • Any ENDS product that is targeted to minors or likely to promote use of ENDS by minors.
Cartridge-based ENDS products are a type of ENDS product that consists of, includes, or involves a cartridge or pod that holds liquid that is to be aerosolized when the product is used. For purposes of this policy, a cartridge or pod is any small, enclosed unit (sealed or unsealed) designed to fit within or operate as part of an ENDS product.

For all other products (cartridge-based or otherwise), including menthol-, tobacco-, and non-flavored ENDS products, the FDA will also prioritize enforcement where the manufacturer fails to take adequate measures to prevent youth access

yep and they all still fall under the May 12 Deeming regs enforcement date, but post 8-8-2016 products may be pulled from sale sooner than that.

Post May 12 enforcement will be prioritized and of course anything the FDA considers a risk to youth will be top priority to hammer down. So between now and May look for the anti vapers to try and get more vape products 'shown' to be a risk to youth..

A long FDA doc on such things..
https://www.fda.gov/media/133880/download

Made my head hurt scanning thru it.
 

ajvapes

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I wonder how a product that is marketed as " Not intended for use with nicotine products" would fare. I just took a Moti pod and washed it out and left the water in it....Would not inhale it, but it puffs well.
 

The Cromwell

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I wonder how a product that is marketed as " Not intended for use with nicotine products" would fare. I just took a Moti pod and washed it out and left the water in it....Would not inhale it, but it puffs well.
I dunno it will be interesting to see how that works out with the legal herbal vape stuff.
 

ajvapes

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I dunno it will be interesting to see how that works out with the legal herbal vape stuff.
Then again , after tobacco and mint are approved, In court what would technically be the difference between mint or watermelon. :gaah::gaah:
 

The Cromwell

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Then again , after tobacco and mint are approved, In court what would technically be the difference between mint or watermelon. :gaah::gaah:
Different ingredients and NOT FDA approved.

In time some flavorings may be banned from vape use due to allergies and such or at least identified and warning labels.
I am very allergic to some ingredient(s) in many flavorings. woud be nice to know which ones have them.
And no I do not know which ingredients. At the time I discovered it flavorings were not very open about their ingredients.
And now? Just do not care much. I have found some that work for me and I am fine.
And I have discovered the early warning sign, tingly lips.
 

ajvapes

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Different ingredients and NOT FDA approved.

In time some flavorings may be banned from vape use due to allergies and such or at least identified and warning labels.
I am very allergic to some ingredient(s) in many flavorings. woud be nice to know which ones have them.
And no I do not know which ingredients. At the time I discovered it flavorings were not very open about their ingredients.
And now? Just do not care much. I have found some that work for me and I am fine.
And I have discovered the early warning sign, tingly lips.
warnings and ingredients aside, many products are gonna be an allergy to someone. The difference of ingredients which are approved food additives , would be minor.
 

The Cromwell

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warnings and ingredients aside, many products are gonna be an allergy to someone. The difference of ingredients which are approved food additives , would be minor.
Ahh but the flavoings are only a problem to me when inhaled.
And I know of others with this issue.
There are very few of us though most give up and go back to smoking and curse vaping as deadly.
I almost did. And I have no other known allergies. Heck I am not even allergic to posion ivy.
 

ajvapes

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Ahh but the flavoings are only a problem to me when inhaled.
And I know of others with this issue.
There are very few of us though most give up and go back to smoking and curse vaping as deadly.
I almost did. And I have no other known allergies. Heck I am not even allergic to posion ivy.
I've never had an allergy, now I am sensitive to dust mold and tree pollen. Go figure.
 

Carambrda

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Actually it was Cole Bishop first, of which elements were wrapped into the Senate bill - it was widely debated over and over on VU

Duncan Hunter was widely known and referred to as Cole Bishop amended - for well over a year
Actually Cole-Bishop was initially referring to HR2058, which was NOT going to effectively ban mech mods by specifically requiring a built-in electronics device to protect the battery in every mod. By contrast, the Duncan Hunter bill was going to. The Cole-Bishop Amendment that you are referring to is HR1136, but this was just a proposal to change the effective date of the premarket review requirement to allow all existing e-cigarettes, including mechs, to stay on the market. So whether you believe it or not, the Duncan Hunter bill (HR2194) was what caused certain members of our vaping family to want to throw us under the bus in order to save their own self. Duncan Hunter is the guy who was indicted for multiple counts of fraud including spending $600 on a plane ticket for a pet rabbit, and, about a month ago the news reporters told he was going to plead guilty.

EDIT: Here's a link to the bill:
https://www.regulatorwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/CSREVA115-APR-21-2017-vr..pdf
The paragraphs about protecting the battery that would effectively ban mech mods are (B) and (C) on pages 15-16. Although paragraph (2) on page 11 states that the term ‘personal electronic vaporizer’ means an electronic device that employs a heating element or atomizer that converts an e-liquid into an aerosol, vapor, or vapor-like mist through a non-combustive process, the argument that a mech mod is not an electronic device (which makes all the perfect sense in the world IMO... unless maybe you want to insist on that a metal coat hanger is a ‘resistor’ too, in which case it would meet the definition of a passive electronic component...) would most likely have been denied because, after all, these kinds of people are always going to be irrational anyway in the first place.
 
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