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Vape Mail Pretty Much Guaranteed to be Pretty Much Banned.
- Thread starter gsmit1
- Start date
wildgypsy70
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Awwww, c’mon......really? This sucks.
JuicyLucy
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PopcornSmell
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That is very bad. First in Australia and now in the US as well 
lordmage
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yep just makes what could survive the pmta. most expensive to ship via other means... but lets be real PMTA will kill it in the US this just keeps the other way cost prohibitve to do.
Because it disrupts the flow of money from some of their largest donors and an ignorant bleeding heart public will go along with it.
I've been saying since I've been around here that they ARE going to kill it and no amount of evidence demonstrating the public health benefit will do a thing to dissuade them because it has nothing to do with public heath. NOTHING.
In fact the more it becomes apparent that vaping saves lives the greater the opposition to it because that makes it a non prescription, easily implemented and enjoyable near miracle that cuts them and their big money donors out of the loop.
The very last thing they want.
I know people will hate me for this, but I have to say it again. The minute that vaping was presented as a smoking cessation method, in other words a medical device, it turned the crosshairs of those in power directly upon itself.
If it would have been marketed as a recreational vice, like tobacco and alcohol, then at least for a while, it would have been treated like... well... tobacco and alcohol.
Anybody who thought that these political whores and their corporate financiers were going to stand by and watch billions of dollars drained from their offering baskets really has NO idea who and what they're dealing with.
Did anybody really believe that vaping was going to be celebrated as a low cost life saving miracle?
Yes actually. They did.And here we are.
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yep as it stands all non PMTA approved vape stuff will be prohibited from sale or importation into the US in September.
And afik nothing has been approved yet and perhaps a handful of accepted applications. Which allows them to be sold for up to 1 year.
So unless the date is slid once again this signature shipping thing becomes pretty much a moot point in Sept.
If gear is available then maybe vape shops would survive?
f1r3b1rd
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Exactly ... if you have to choose between an inconvenience or no gear. Take the inconvenience
This is a chess game. lose the battle; but, win the war. The time we waste being angry about the battle is time not spent focusing on the war.
Because it disrupts the flow of money from some of their largest donors and an ignorant bleeding heart public will go along with it.
I've been saying since I've been around here that they ARE going to kill it and no amount of evidence demonstrating the public health benefit will do a thing to dissuade them because ii has nothing to do with public heath. NOTHING.
In fact the more it becomes apparent that vaping saves lives the greater the opposition to it because that makes it a non prescription, easily implemented and enjoyable near miracle that cuts them and their big money donors out of the loop.
The very last thing they want.
I know people will hate me for this, but I have to say it again. The minute that vaping was presented as a smoking cessation method, in other words a medical device, it turned the cross hairs of those in power directly upon itself.
If it would have been marketed as a recreational vice, like tobacco and alcohol, then at least for a while, it would have been treated like... well... tobacco and alcohol.
Anybody who thought that these political whores and their corporate financiers were going to stand by and watch billions of dollars drained from their offering baskets really has NO idea who and what they're dealing with.
Did anybody really believe that vaping was going to be celebrated as a low cost life saving miracle?
And here we are.
Even worse, vaping was talked about as *an enjoyable* smoking cessation method. That made it even more hatable, imho.
And yes, in hindsight we should’ve kept it as a slightly naughty hobby.
I’m glad now that I bought a bunch of gear this week. It doesn’t seem so extravagant now!!
But how many of them are still open after corona lockdowns?
Good point but from radio ads at least one chain of vape shops here in KY is still open and has gone from curbside to in store again now.
Been over 5 years since I set foot in a vape shop. But I think the majority of vapers use them.
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Truth be told, I don't kid myself. It was impossible.
Hon Lik invented it as a smoking cessation method and it is not reasonable to expect people not to be loudly overjoyed when it frees them from a decades long bondage to tobacco. Before somebody quite rightly points this out to me.
It was doomed from the start.
Now that Cuomo has done a full juice ban, vape shops in NY are going to be screwed. If they were even able to re-open, that is. All it’s done is destroy an industry that could have brought millions of dollars back into the economy. At least until Deeming kicks in.
This is all so wrong now, when the economy is suffering from closures and lockdowns.
The way things are going New York is going to be hurting bad. I feel sorry for the good people left there that can't afford to leave. The crime rate is going to skyrocket with no cops to stop it.
Any rumors of delaying the PMTA enforcement deadline yet again?
At this point, I’m hoping they do. But only because of everything that happened with corona. There’s a few more things I’d like to get, but basically I’m prepared. I’ve got to thank the ECF vets for making me aware of what was going to happen.
nadalama
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I've read that bill several times and I'm confused about something. I keep reading here in the forum where people are saying that the passage of the bill will make shipping vape gear cost-prohibitive.
I don't interpret it that way. What I'm reading says it will be ILLEGAL for the USPS to accept shipments of vape gear except between licensed entities.
The bill lumps vape stuff into the same category as tobacco. So if you look at other shippers, like UPS and FedEx, they have long-standing policies already on board prohibiting shipments of tobacco products as well.
What am I not seeing? I don't see cost-prohibitive. I see IMPOSSIBLE.
I don't interpret it that way. What I'm reading says it will be ILLEGAL for the USPS to accept shipments of vape gear except between licensed entities.
The bill lumps vape stuff into the same category as tobacco. So if you look at other shippers, like UPS and FedEx, they have long-standing policies already on board prohibiting shipments of tobacco products as well.
What am I not seeing? I don't see cost-prohibitive. I see IMPOSSIBLE.
It's why I keep referencing the fictitious drug called Prozium, from the 2002 dystopian movie Equilibrium with Christian Bale and Emily Watson.
I’m just hoping I have enough supplies to last years!
I only read the article I posted in the OP. That fella has been pretty reliable to this point .
As I understand it it restricts vape stuff to signature required shipping methods.
except when shipping to licensed vendors.
except when shipping to licensed vendors.
nadalama
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The second paragraph below is paragraph (e) of Title 18, Section 1716. I see nothing that allows signature-required delivery methods to individuals. This is the paragraph that is being amended by S. 1253.
(from S. 1253)
(b) Effective Date.—The prohibition on mailing of cigarettes under section 1716E of title 18, United States Code, shall apply to electronic nicotine delivery systems on and after the date on which the United States Postal Service promulgates regulations under subsection (a) of this section.
This was the wrong section. See below.
(from S. 1253)
(b) Effective Date.—The prohibition on mailing of cigarettes under section 1716E of title 18, United States Code, shall apply to electronic nicotine delivery systems on and after the date on which the United States Postal Service promulgates regulations under subsection (a) of this section.
This was the wrong section. See below.
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Yep restricted for non USPS shippers and signature for non business to business shipments I think.
tobacco products are pretty much already banned by USPS. they are adding vaping into the mix.
Notice that cigars are exempt, because.. well privilege and entitlement...
Open or Close content belowCigarettes, Cigars, & Tobacco
Cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are restricted items and can only be mailed in limited circumstances. Cigars may be mailed domestically. Customers are advised to review the Cigarettes, Cigars, and Tobacco Definitions and Mailability.
Exceptions for Mailing Cigarette & Smokeless Tobacco
Cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are mailable only in the below circumstances:
Allowable cigarette or smokeless tobacco shipments must be approved by a Postal employee at a Post Office™. The Postal employee will verify that an individual recipient is of legal age to receive the shipment.
.
Notice that cigars are exempt, because.. well privilege and entitlement...
Open or Close content belowCigarettes, Cigars, & Tobacco
Cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are restricted items and can only be mailed in limited circumstances. Cigars may be mailed domestically. Customers are advised to review the Cigarettes, Cigars, and Tobacco Definitions and Mailability.
Exceptions for Mailing Cigarette & Smokeless Tobacco
Cigarettes and smokeless tobacco are mailable only in the below circumstances:
- Intra-Alaskan and intra-Hawaiian shipments
- Business/regulatory purposes
- Small-quantity “gift” shipments to individuals
- Individual returns of an unacceptable tobacco product to a manufacturer
Allowable cigarette or smokeless tobacco shipments must be approved by a Postal employee at a Post Office™. The Postal employee will verify that an individual recipient is of legal age to receive the shipment.
Shipping Restrictions - What Can You Send in the Mail? | USPS
Learn about USPS guidelines on hazardous or dangerous goods, what it means if an item is restricted or prohibited, and if you may ship food, batteries, alcohol, hand sanitizer, liquids, marijuana, or tobacco through the mail.
www.usps.com
nadalama
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I'm not going to argue about this, but I want to say what I see/don't see just one more time. I don't see anything that refers to non-USPS shippers in that section. The entire section refers to USPS. And it says plainly the categories of persons who can receive shipments of the legislated class of products.
There is a section in the Jenkins Act that talks about signature deliveries, but those regulations are moot when it comes to the Postal Service, because the amendment to 1716 makes it illegal for the USPS to deliver tobacco products to non-licensed entities as set forth in the section I quoted.
If we disagree, then I reckon we'll see how it shakes out if the thing is passed into law. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.
I may be wrong but I think theis legislation just deals with USPS and maybe signature required on non USPS shipments. but I will read the thing.
I read this: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1253/text
Tried looking at Jenkins act but decided I would need a few weeks to research it all out.
Not worth it for me personally as I have no plans to buy any more vape stuff. Set for life except DIY juice consumables, cotton and batteries.
Tried looking at Jenkins act but decided I would need a few weeks to research it all out.
Not worth it for me personally as I have no plans to buy any more vape stuff. Set for life except DIY juice consumables, cotton and batteries.
nadalama
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I have to back up. Section e is not the same as E.
I need to do more reading too.
I tried to paste the text, but it's too long.
I see two allowed exceptions. One is for noncommercial mailings, no more than 10 per month, and the other is for consumer testing by manufacturers.
I need to do more reading too.
I tried to paste the text, but it's too long.
I see two allowed exceptions. One is for noncommercial mailings, no more than 10 per month, and the other is for consumer testing by manufacturers.
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Please explain.
My take on it, he's saying that "you ain't gettin' your shit online", they're making it difficult as possible, thus the B & M Protection Act, even though those won't be able to sell much anyway.
In other words, it's the BT + BP + Fake Health Organizations Protection Act... aka the Why-Am-I-Not-Surprised Act.
Works in with the FDA Deeming regs ban on importing non approved vape stuff.
All the Chinese vape stuff I have bought winds up being delivered by the USPS.
nadalama
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Steps 3 through 12 along the road to "you ain't gettin' your shit ANYWHERE"
Yes unless it is FDA approved. Sucks but been coming for a while now.
Sort of related to this. Makes me wonder, being the mild conspiracy theorist that I am. So we all remember how the news jumped on evali, acting shocked and surprised. No one had heard of this 'new' vaping illness. The media totally played dumb ignoring the fact that 18-24mo prior they'd covered very similar cases, breathing illnesses and death due to cbd carts. A number of cases, a lot of service folks, some died. So we know the media is selective with their 'amazement' or glorification of stories depending on the agenda.
Recently on social media and in news outlets there have been cases of people receiving 'mystery' seeds likely from china. Unsolicited, stuff they never ordered from places they never shopped and small packages with chinese writing on them. Washington, Idaho I think and Virginia so far have reported on this. Different folks, different states, different seeds. The respective depts of agriculture advising people to contact them for further analysis of the seeds and for proper disposal in case they're infected, invasive species etc. And they've been making it a point to show that it's smuggling and illegal to bypass proper measures when shipping international agricultural things.
Having seen this pop up I assumed it was new. While searching for similar news stories I came across similar stories and posts. Many of them on reddit, but not recent posts. 4-5yrs old. So this has happened before. The media in typical fashion has made no mention of that. (Where have we seen this sudden 'shocked and amazed' reaction recently?).
And now down to how is this vape related or to the usps ban on vape mail. Those of us thinking yea well there's some places like chinese sites that will continue sending vapemail in spite of any bans. As it is they often mislabel their packages. I've had some labeled as 'orings' or 'plumbing fixtures'. Many of these mystery seed packs from china say things like 'jewelry'. Both seeds and a lot of vape mail are in small packages. Is this surge in mystery illegal seeds coming in randomly labeled china mailers going to lay the groundwork for opening and inspecting a lot of small china labeled packages? Looking for illegal seeds and 'oh look', we found illegal vape shit in the process. Illegal in the sense that if this ban passes nothing vape related should be sent through usps. And we may not be safe getting small items, atomizers, spare glass etc in small bubble mailers that could be an agricultural threat. Drawing more scrutiny to international packages than there would've been otherwise.
Recently on social media and in news outlets there have been cases of people receiving 'mystery' seeds likely from china. Unsolicited, stuff they never ordered from places they never shopped and small packages with chinese writing on them. Washington, Idaho I think and Virginia so far have reported on this. Different folks, different states, different seeds. The respective depts of agriculture advising people to contact them for further analysis of the seeds and for proper disposal in case they're infected, invasive species etc. And they've been making it a point to show that it's smuggling and illegal to bypass proper measures when shipping international agricultural things.
Having seen this pop up I assumed it was new. While searching for similar news stories I came across similar stories and posts. Many of them on reddit, but not recent posts. 4-5yrs old. So this has happened before. The media in typical fashion has made no mention of that. (Where have we seen this sudden 'shocked and amazed' reaction recently?).
And now down to how is this vape related or to the usps ban on vape mail. Those of us thinking yea well there's some places like chinese sites that will continue sending vapemail in spite of any bans. As it is they often mislabel their packages. I've had some labeled as 'orings' or 'plumbing fixtures'. Many of these mystery seed packs from china say things like 'jewelry'. Both seeds and a lot of vape mail are in small packages. Is this surge in mystery illegal seeds coming in randomly labeled china mailers going to lay the groundwork for opening and inspecting a lot of small china labeled packages? Looking for illegal seeds and 'oh look', we found illegal vape shit in the process. Illegal in the sense that if this ban passes nothing vape related should be sent through usps. And we may not be safe getting small items, atomizers, spare glass etc in small bubble mailers that could be an agricultural threat. Drawing more scrutiny to international packages than there would've been otherwise.
nadalama
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You know what? Right now, I would believe just about anything.
Note to vendors: Stop using your name on the return.