Why Tobacco Is Never Safe—Not Even In An E-Cigarette Or Hookah





5150sick

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http://www.huffingtonpost.in/ninad-...-even-in-an-e-cigarette-or-hookah_a_22118868/

This turd of an article, written by a fucking Doctor! is riddled with mistakes but the stupidest one that pertains to vaping would be the title and:

"E-cigarettes are known to contain particulate matter (in addition to tobacco),"

They think they are smooth adding vaping in with hookah in order to trick people into reading the bad things about hookah and thinking that vaping is the same.


The reason they will never get away with their lies is the simple fact that when you switch to vaping you FEEL better, you can SMELL and TASTE again, your own DOCTOR tells you that you are indeed HEALTHIER if you leave out vaping and just say "I quit smoking" - 5150
 

fq06

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Yesh, that article is full of ignorance. I found this funny..
"An average person takes around 50-200 puffs over an hour (with a hookah) as compared to 8-12 per cigarette, which becomes the equivalent of smoking 100 cigarettes in one go"

Who the fuck could put down a cigarette in 8 puffs? Even 12... thats like monster lung 30 second DTL rips off that sucker with a 2 inch long cherry!
 

Rickajho

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I tried filling my squonker with tobacco. That doesn't work for some reason. I don't know if I would consider it unsafe but it sure is stupid.
 

VaporCat

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The article attempts to infer that anything that looks like smoke (even if its not smoke) = tobacco = nicotine = poison = death. Of course the real problem with tobacco is that one normally sets it on fire to consume it. I would think that tobacco NETs and absolutes qualify as tobacco. Some vapor products do contain them, but I don't see this fact as making those products any more risky than ones that don't. Tobacco and nicotine have been stigmatized by their association with smoking, a stigma they may never lose.
 

JuicyLucy

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Tobacco and nicotine have been stigmatized by their association with smoking, a stigma they may never lose.
That stigma would all but disappear if medical professionals, professionals do gooders and scientists told the truth about vaping
 

AndriaD

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That stigma would all but disappear if medical professionals, professionals do gooders and scientists told the truth about vaping
Just really glad that my own doc has a firm grasp on reality: "ANYTHING is better than smoking," says he, "so just keep doing whatever you're doing to avoid smoking."

Andria
 

JuicyLucy

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Just really glad that my own doc has a firm grasp on reality: "ANYTHING is better than smoking," says he, "so just keep doing whatever you're doing to avoid smoking."

Andria
All my doctors are on board big time
 

Rickajho

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That stigma would all but disappear if medical professionals, professionals do gooders and scientists told the truth about vaping
It would also help if a large subset of newbies would stop referring to vapor as smoke. :gaah:
 

Nate. H

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Yesh, that article is full of ignorance. I found this funny..
"An average person takes around 50-200 puffs over an hour (with a hookah) as compared to 8-12 per cigarette, which becomes the equivalent of smoking 100 cigarettes in one go"

Who the fuck could put down a cigarette in 8 puffs? Even 12... thats like monster lung 30 second DTL rips off that sucker with a 2 inch long cherry!
I smoke hookah occasionally and 100 cigarettes is ridiculous... You can fit enough tobacco in a bowl for maybe 10 cigs and i think im being generous its probably less than that. And bowl typically lasts about 45 min. to an hour and a half. Also the smoke isnt usually inhaled.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

AndriaD

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It would also help if a large subset of newbies would stop referring to vapor as smoke. :gaah:
And even some non-newbies, to judge from another conversation round here today. :D

Andria
 

VaporCat

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That stigma would all but disappear if medical professionals, professionals do gooders and scientists told the truth about vaping
I wouldn't be so sure about that, as the misinformation has been ingrained into peoples minds for years. Mention "tobacco" to the average non-smoker/non-vaper and they instantly think "nicotine" and "cancer". The title of this article shows that reinforcement of the misinformation continues, there will always be some non-believer out there propagating the same old lies, and people will be slow to accept anything different. Decades worth of bullshit may take decades of undoing.
 

AndriaD

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Hell, just notice how pretty much every new vaper comes in saying that OF COURSE they want to reduce nicotine and then eventually quit vaping. They still believe the old yarn about nicotine being "more addictive than {street narcotics}", and are stunned to learn that it just ain't so -- and there are quite a few established vapers, apparently, who STILL believe it. I gotta say, it's the first "addictive drug" I've ever heard of that has NEGATIVE tolerance -- even many of us who had zero intentions of EVER reducing nicotine, ultimately find that we HAVE to reduce it, because we start getting nic sick! :giggle:

Andria
 

JuicyLucy

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I wouldn't be so sure about that, as the misinformation has been ingrained into peoples minds for years. Mention "tobacco" to the average non-smoker/non-vaper and they instantly think "nicotine" and "cancer". The title of this article shows that reinforcement of the misinformation continues, there will always be some non-believer out there propagating the same old lies, and people will be slow to accept anything different. Decades worth of bullshit may take decades of undoing.
I finally watched the documentary "A Billion Lives" a few days ago.

They said (if I remember right) that before the FDA began its anti-vaping campaign in earnest, 70% of vapers themselves believed vaping was safer than cigarettes, and that number plummeted to like 39% within six months after the propaganda went full fledge

It does matter - a lot
 

VaporCat

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Tobacco vapes are the only thing that keeps me from smoking. Nicotine, well I'm still on 12mg and it took me 3 years to get there, I don't plan on reducing any further because I like it. I don't see any problem in either tobacco or nicotine without smoke. Eliminating the smoke was a no-brainer for me, apparently its not so easy for others to disassociate tobacco/nicotine from smoking.
 

JuicyLucy

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Ok, that's dumb. No need to see the thread.
It does prove that facts don't matter to some fucktards but some people will see the truth - especially people who are desperate to quit smoking
 

AndriaD

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It does prove that facts don't matter to some fucktards but some people will see the truth - especially people who are desperate to quit smoking
Or desperate to be a non-smoker, yet not have to suffer to get there!

But these ANTZ... they seem to hold it against us, that vaping looks or feels like smoking, though IT'S NOT SMOKING.... obviously they believe that smokers OUGHT to suffer, and if they don't, well then they just haven't quit. So, they want us to quit, and they want us to do it THEIR way and no other way, to make sure that we suffer!

They can kiss my ass. I quit smoking almost 3 yrs ago -- I haven't bought nor lit a cigarette in all that time, which makes me a NON-SMOKER. And didn't have to suffer much, mostly thanks to WTA.

Andria
 

bobnat

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Hell, just notice how pretty much every new vaper comes in saying that OF COURSE they want to reduce nicotine and then eventually quit vaping. They still believe the old yarn about nicotine being "more addictive than {street narcotics}", and are stunned to learn that it just ain't so -- and there are quite a few established vapers, apparently, who STILL believe it. I gotta say, it's the first "addictive drug" I've ever heard of that has NEGATIVE tolerance -- even many of us who had zero intentions of EVER reducing nicotine, ultimately find that we HAVE to reduce it, because we start getting nic sick! :giggle:

Andria
Damn good point.
 

Rickajho

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Or desperate to be a non-smoker, yet not have to suffer to get there!

But these ANTZ... they seem to hold it against us, that vaping looks or feels like smoking, though IT'S NOT SMOKING.... obviously they believe that smokers OUGHT to suffer, and if they don't, well then they just haven't quit. So, they want us to quit, and they want us to do it THEIR way and no other way, to make sure that we suffer!

They can kiss my ass. I quit smoking almost 3 yrs ago -- I haven't bought nor lit a cigarette in all that time, which makes me a NON-SMOKER. And didn't have to suffer much, mostly thanks to WTA.

Andria
Don't mean to quibble but you are an EX-SMOKER, not a non-smoker. That point of having been a smoker - "ex" or otherwise - can be medically relevant for a long time coming. It does no one good to walk into a Doctor's office with potential smoking related symptoms and when asked declare themselves a non-smoker... after, say, only quitting a decades long smoking habit just a few months before. You don't grow a new pair of lungs once you quit smoking.
 

JuicyLucy

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Don't mean to quibble but you are an EX-SMOKER, not a non-smoker.
That is an arbitrary definition from the American Lung Association

As they are one of the many sham organizations that advocate for vape bans to save their cash-cow, I have a hard time honoring their decisions on verbiage :mad:

According to the Oxford dictionary, a nonsmoker is someone who does not smoke tobacco

Screen Shot 2017-06-04 at 12.45.39 PM.png
 

AndriaD

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Don't mean to quibble but you are an EX-SMOKER, not a non-smoker. That point of having been a smoker - "ex" or otherwise - can be medically relevant for a long time coming. It does no one good to walk into a Doctor's office with potential smoking related symptoms and when asked declare themselves a non-smoker... after, say, only quitting a decades long smoking habit just a few months before. You don't grow a new pair of lungs once you quit smoking.
Yes, good point --but my point is that regardless of how much vaping looks or feels like smoking, it's NOT smoking. But you're right; the risk I incurred with 39 yrs of smoking hasn't disappeared, it's merely stopped growing with every puff taken.

Andria
 

Rickajho

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That is an arbitrary definition from the American Lung Association

As they are one of the many sham organizations that advocate for vape bans to save their cash-cow, I have a hard time honoring their decisions on verbiage :mad:

According to the Oxford dictionary, a nonsmoker is someone who does not smoke tobacco

View attachment 83615
So you think it's a good idea for someone who quits smoking - and has had non stop shits, cramps & blood in their stool for months on end as indicators of Chron's disease - to blindly say to their Doctor "Why no, I'm a non smoker!"

Of course those would be the same people who will pop in here insisting the symptoms must be vaping related while heading toward life threatening levels of anemia. :facepalm:
 

AndriaD

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That is an arbitrary definition from the American Lung Association

As they are one of the many sham organizations that advocate for vape bans to save their cash-cow, I have a hard time honoring their decisions on verbiage :mad:

According to the Oxford dictionary, a nonsmoker is someone who does not smoke tobacco

View attachment 83615
I'm a non-smoker now, but he's correct, 39 yrs of inhaling pyrolytic poison all day everyday has done permanent damage to my lungs, and that damage hasn't disappeared just because it's no longer getting worse. I developed asthma 10 yrs after I became a smoker; it would be great if my asthma had disappeared when I quit smoking, but it hasn't; symptomatically it's actually worse, but I know that's probably due to no longer inhaling all those "masking" chemicals that BT puts in cigarettes just so that people can continue smoking without feeling most of the effects of it. I think that right there is the most unethical thing that BT does to support their business model, besides adding ammonia to make the nicotine and the other alkaloids arrive so damn fast to the brain.

Andria
 

JuicyLucy

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but he's correct, 39 yrs of inhaling pyrolytic poison all day everyday has done permanent damage to my lungs, and that damage hasn't disappeared just because it's no longer getting worse.
I did not dispute that part at all. Just that the definition of nonsmoker is someone who has never smoked

As a former smoker for over 37 years, I know my risk for smoking related disease is still high, but it is a lot less than it was, and like you said earlier, the risk is not being increased by vaping, thank god.
 

Rickajho

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And if you gonna have a pissy fit about semantics then look at is this way:

"I'm a non-smoker!" Then why the hell are you vaping? (Like that topic has never come here before... :rolleyes: )

"I'm an ex-smoker!" And let me tell you about vaping and how I got there and have stayed quit with vaping.

It is a distinction with a difference - on many levels.
 

JuicyLucy

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And if you gonna have a pissy fit about semantics then look at is this way:

"I'm a non-smoker!" Then why the hell are you vaping? (Like that topic has never come here before... :rolleyes: )

"I'm an ex-smoker!" And let me tall you about vaping and how I got there and have stayed quit with vaping.

It is a distinction with a difference - on many levels.
By that logic, you are treating vapers like smokers across the board

That what ANTZ do

When someone insists I'm a smoker when actually I'm a vaper I want to punch them in the nose

Also, there are valid reasons someone who has never smoked might vape - the first person I introduced to vaping chewed tobacco and wanted to quit, for instance. They had never smoked tobacco ever

ANTZ also encourage divisions within the vape community
 

AndriaD

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And if you gonna have a pissy fit about semantics then look at is this way:

"I'm a non-smoker!" Then why the hell are you vaping? (Like that topic has never come here before... :rolleyes: )

"I'm an ex-smoker!" And let me tell you about vaping and how I got there and have stayed quit with vaping.

It is a distinction with a difference - on many levels.
Assuming that one believes you have to be a member of the coffin nail club before one is entitled to vape. I don't, not at all -- I look at it as smoking prevention, whether one has an addiction to kick or not.

Andria
 

Rickajho

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By that logic, you are treating vapers like smokers across the board
No. I am not and have never said the two are equivalent.

But I'm not in denial either about why I landed here. Would we have vaping at all if not for smoking? It was invented as a method to successfully get out of smoking, not as an idle whimsy just for shits & giggles.
 

5150sick

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I tell them the truth. That I quit smoking on August 20th 2012 and just leave it at that.

If they ask me how long I smoked for I honestly answer "About 20 years" and if they press me about how I quit I either change the subject or hit them with a smart ass answer like "Does it matter?"

Not only is it none of their business how I quit but it really doesn't matter how it only matters that I in fact DID quit smoking Aug 2012
 

5150sick

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No. I am not and have never said the two are equivalent.

But I'm not in denial either about why I landed here. Would we have vaping at all if not for smoking? It was invented as a method to successfully get out of smoking, not as an idle whimsy just for shits & giggles.
I have no problem at all with a non smoking ADULT deciding to take up vaping which is the least dangerous of 2 habits.

Just as I have no problem with a 21 year old starting to go out to bars and drinking a LEGAL ADULT product.

A hundred years from now no one will smoke and adults who can legally make adult choices about the consumption of adult products will start vaping.

You actually think Big Tobacco is putting all this money into something they expect to be extinct in a few decades?
 

Rickajho

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You actually think Big Tobacco is putting all this money into something they expect to be extinct in a few decades?
No idea. From a corporate profit perspective I would just say they are hedging their bets for profits in countries where smoking is increasingly frowned upon. That, of course, has nothing to do with their massive ongoing cigarette sales in impoverished countries with zero tobacco regulations.
 

NGAHaze

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While I do see the distinction that is attempting to be made, I don't believe that the simple use of the prefix 'Non' is necessarily indicative of having never smoked but rather the current absence of it.

That said however, when compiling a medical history for the purposes of diagnosing a medical condition, it probably would be more accurate and potentially helpful to specifically mention being a former smoker. Of course you then have to anticipate that you may well have your condition less thoroughly scrutinized since there would now be a much easier target on which to place blame.

So which do you choose? I suspect circumstance will likely play a part in any such decision but personally, I no longer wish to be classified or grouped among smokers. :)
 

AndriaD

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While I do see the distinction that is attempting to be made, I don't believe that the simple use of the prefix 'Non' is necessarily indicative of having never smoked but rather the current absence of it.

That said however, when compiling a medical history for the purposes of diagnosing a medical condition, it probably would be more accurate and potentially helpful to specifically mention being a former smoker. Of course you then have to anticipate that you may well have your condition less thoroughly scrutinized since there would now be a much easier target on which to place blame.

So which do you choose? I suspect circumstance will likely play a part in any such decision but personally, I no longer wish to be classified or grouped among smokers. :)
Good points -- I'd say it depends a great deal on the particular doctor. My doc is THRILLED about vaping, since it's the first way he's EVER seen that not only works to help smokers quit, but STAY quit, which of course is the hardest part. But he's quite well aware that I'm a former smoker; he used to ask me at every visit if I'd changed my mind about patches, etc, but I figured they hadn't gotten any more effective over time, so I always refused -- 2 efforts was all I needed, to know that not only do they not work, they cause their own problems!

He took a chest x-ray of me when I first started seeing him, about 20 yrs ago. In the fall of 2015, I suffered a serious bacterial infection, so he took another x-ray, I guess to rule out pneumonia or anything else bronchial -- and the x-ray tech's conclusion was "unchanged" -- from 18 yrs previous. So not only had a bit over a year (at that time) of vaping caused no changes that could be seen on x-ray, neither had the 17 yrs of smoking from then to 2014. So, it seems to me that he keeps the fact of my long-term smoking in mind, but doesn't simply stop there; he considers symptoms in their own right, and does now consider me a non-smoker. Of course, he's older, 64 yrs old -- newer younger docs might not be so open-minded, with all the brainwashing about smoking from the 90s on.

Andria
 

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