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How are E-cigarette devices named?
- Thread starter Cacuqecig
- Start date
Stolen seems like a strong word considering the Chinese invented e-cigs.
By your rationale, it actually sounds more like all those Euro companies first stole the core engineering from China.
Totally agree! People learn things from another, stolen would mean that Chinese companies actually infringed certain patent laws and cloned any established design explicitly. There has been no open accusation yet.
Many Shenzhen manufacturers have their own designers and they make 80% of vaping devices in the market. They might have copied a few in the beginning, but they are doing alright now
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Right, you do them justice. As a rule, Chinese companies produce 80% of almost all small merchandises in the world. Zips, lighters, jean pants, you name it
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Chinese made the first marketable E-cigarettes. Even though there were some earlier versions in the 1960s but no one was buying them. No one would consider that the Chinese inventor in the 17th century who bound fire crakers on a chair with himself sitting on it invented rockets. So in the same way, it is proper to say that the Chinese invented E-cigarettes
No no noooo... I was just rattling his cage... he needs that sometimes.
C'mon, you gotta be kidding me! The Chinese are notorious for design theft! ...In ALL industries.
And that bit about design patents is disingenuous...
I work in the aerospace industry. Imagine our surprise when the Chinese Stealth Fighter
was introduced and it looks lika a perfect little US F-35A... made from plans stolen by China.
Sure, we can trust em...
.
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KingPin!
In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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No no noooo... I was just rattling his cage...
C'mon, you gotta be kidding me! The Chinese are notorious for design theft! ...In ALL industries.
I work in the aerospace industry. Imagine our surprise when the Chinese Stealth Fighter
was introduced and it looks lika a perfect little US F-35A... made from plans stolen by China.
I agree ....there is no denying it
KingPin!
In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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Amen!!! @pulsevape definitely needs a good cage rattlin every now & again...
LoL as I said before think I misunderstood pulses angle before so apologised on that
LoL as I said before think I misunderstood pulses angle before so apologised on that
Oh.
Well I'll take it from here then...
I'm just curious how would they manage to "steal" the plan? I think there is more of reverse engineering going on than "stealing" plans...No no noooo... I was just rattling his cage... he needs that sometimes.
C'mon, you gotta be kidding me! The Chinese are notorious for design theft! ...In ALL industries.
And that bit about design patents is disingenuous...
I work in the aerospace industry. Imagine our surprise when the Chinese Stealth Fighter
was introduced and it looks lika a perfect little US F-35A... made from plans stolen by China.
Sure, we can trust em...
.
But you are right about how the J-20 looks just like the American F-35. I also cannot deny the many implied accusations against Chinese copying or cloning after original designs, but "stealing" sounds criminal. I get what you mean. I just find the word hard.No no noooo... I was just rattling his cage... he needs that sometimes.
C'mon, you gotta be kidding me! The Chinese are notorious for design theft! ...In ALL industries.
And that bit about design patents is disingenuous...
I work in the aerospace industry. Imagine our surprise when the Chinese Stealth Fighter
was introduced and it looks lika a perfect little US F-35A... made from plans stolen by China.
Sure, we can trust em...
.
The US Attorney felt so too. He got caught a couple years back, but the whole plane had already been stolen.
Here's the story.............................
2011 file photo, Chinese Air Force crew members inspect a J-20 stealth fighter in Chengdu, in southwest China's Sichuan province. (Color China Photo via AP, File)
Chinese Man Pleads Guilty to Stealing US Military Aircraft Data
POSTED BY: BRENDAN MCGARRY MARCH 23, 2016
A Chinese man has pleaded guilty in a “years-long” conspiracy to hack into U.S. networks to steal sensitive information, including data on the C-17 cargo plane and fighter jet aircraft, the Justice Department announced Wednesday.
Su Bin, also known as Stephen Su and Stephen Subin, 50, a citizen and resident of the People’s Republic of China, pleaded guilty to the crime in the United States District Court for the Central District of California, according to a press release from the department.
A China-based businessman who worked in the aviation and aerospace fields, Su is accused of playing a role “in the criminal conspiracy to steal military technical data, including data relating to the C-17 strategic transport aircraft and certain fighter jets produced for the U.S. military,” it states.
The release didn’t specify which type of fighter aircraft, though American officials have long pointed to similarities in China’s latest designs as evidence of its successful theft of technical data from the U.S.
During a congressional hearing last fall, Sen. Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia, noted that China’s Chengdu J-20 twin-engine stealth fighter resembles the F-22 Raptor made by Lockheed Martin Corp., while the Shenyang J-31 twin-engine multi-role fighter resembles the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter single-engine design also made by Lockheed.
“I’m saying we know the J-20 is pretty much mirroring our F-22,” Manchin said. “We know that their J-31 is pretty much mirroring our F-35. We we know this and the cost to the American taxpayers … why wouldn’t we take hard actions against them? I just don’t understand why we wouldn’t retaliate from a financial standpoint.”
Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work acknowledged that the Chinese “have stolen information from our defense contractors and it has helped them develop systems.” But he said, “we have hardened our systems.”
As part of the plea deal, Su admitted to working with two people from China from October 2008 to March 2014 to gain unauthorized access to computers belonging to Boeing Co. in Orange County, California, to steal sensitive military information and illegally export it to China, according to the the Justice Department release.
Here’s how they did it, according to the document:
“As part of the conspiracy, Su would e-mail the co-conspirators with guidance regarding what persons, companies and technologies to target during their computer intrusions. One of Su’s co-conspirators would then gain access to information residing on computers of U.S. companies and email Su directory file listings and folders showing the data that the co-conspirator had been able to access. Su then directed his co-conspirator as to which files and folders his co-conspirator should steal. Once the co-conspirator stole the data, including by using techniques to avoid detection when hacking the victim computers, Su translated the contents of certain stolen data from English into Chinese. In addition, Su and his co-conspirators each wrote, revised and emailed reports about the information and technology they had acquired by their hacking activities, including its value, to the final beneficiaries of their hacking activities.”
Su was arrested in Canada in July 2014 and consented to be taken to the U.S. in February, the release states. He faces a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 or twice the amount he gained from the offense, whichever is greatest, it states. He is scheduled to be sentenced on July 13, it states.
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It's true that an American man, Mr Gilbert, first invented AND patented the first ELECTRIC cigarette. It's also true that nobody cared. I mean NOBODY. He tried to market it to BT, and BP, and both said "no, thanks." BT at least TRIED IT OUT, but users found it unsatisfying. This was in the early 1960's.
Sometime in the early 2000's, Hon Lik, after watching his father die of lung cancer, put his pharmaceutically-trained brain to work and came up with the first ELECTRONIC cigarette. See the difference there? Electric vs. Electronic? When Mr Gilbert invented the electric one, transistor radios were still in the future -- not to say that transistors didn't exist, they may have, but they were not consumer electronics at that point; they were large (smaller than vacuum tubes but not even close to an IC chip) and expensive.
Although the new electronic ones were more accepted and more satisfying than the originals (battery tech came a long way in 40 yrs), many people STILL found them unsatisfying -- how many of us really found cigalikes satisfying? Not too many, eh? The thing is, the electronic ones at least demonstrated a proof of concept, with which home-based DIYers were able to take off running, and then we had MODS.... which we still call them, though they're now purpose-built for vaping, not modified flashlight bodies. I think Mr Gilbert's electric ones were the proof of concept for Hon Lik, and he made a pretty good idea a lot better, thx to improved technology.
I know it's true that China has taken a lot of designs and put them into mass production -- which made those things less expensive, and thus more available to EVERYBODY, not just rich people. That's a huge boon to the world, for which China is now paying with their air quality. They may have even done it to some degree with vape products... but in no way did China "steal e-cigarettes".... they showed the world it could be done, and EVERYONE took off running with it, to the consternation of death merchants everywhere who just want us all to keep smoking. And the more we fight amongst ourselves, the happier those death merchants will be, because fighting, angry people aren't terribly productive.
Andria
Sometime in the early 2000's, Hon Lik, after watching his father die of lung cancer, put his pharmaceutically-trained brain to work and came up with the first ELECTRONIC cigarette. See the difference there? Electric vs. Electronic? When Mr Gilbert invented the electric one, transistor radios were still in the future -- not to say that transistors didn't exist, they may have, but they were not consumer electronics at that point; they were large (smaller than vacuum tubes but not even close to an IC chip) and expensive.
Although the new electronic ones were more accepted and more satisfying than the originals (battery tech came a long way in 40 yrs), many people STILL found them unsatisfying -- how many of us really found cigalikes satisfying? Not too many, eh? The thing is, the electronic ones at least demonstrated a proof of concept, with which home-based DIYers were able to take off running, and then we had MODS.... which we still call them, though they're now purpose-built for vaping, not modified flashlight bodies. I think Mr Gilbert's electric ones were the proof of concept for Hon Lik, and he made a pretty good idea a lot better, thx to improved technology.
I know it's true that China has taken a lot of designs and put them into mass production -- which made those things less expensive, and thus more available to EVERYBODY, not just rich people. That's a huge boon to the world, for which China is now paying with their air quality. They may have even done it to some degree with vape products... but in no way did China "steal e-cigarettes".... they showed the world it could be done, and EVERYONE took off running with it, to the consternation of death merchants everywhere who just want us all to keep smoking. And the more we fight amongst ourselves, the happier those death merchants will be, because fighting, angry people aren't terribly productive.
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Randomly w/out much, if any, thought...is the way I see it
if I do it ain't gonna be done by a lightwieght like you....Gramps...LOLAmen!!! @pulsevape definitely needs a good cage rattlin every now & again...
yeah that make sense sort of like how the Wright Brothers are the rightful designers of the space shuttle..are you kidding me..the assholes even steal the same logos and names of the gear whose desgins they steal. keep this ethical tap dance up much longer and you'll be fit to run for office.
It is total nonsense that China made vaping available to "not just the rich"...there are people who have hundreds and hundreds of dollars of clones...if you can spend hundred and hundreds of dollars on a hobby you sure as hell aren't poor.
So what would have happened if China had not stolen the designs of non chinese modders.....well then the modders would not have to worry about their designs being stolen and they wouldn't have to charge high prices in order to make a profit before the market was flooded by stolen designs... they would have been able to say to themselves this is my atty nobody else can make it. so I can make 10,000 of them and drop the price of my product. they would have been the ONLY seller of their own product, and the price would have dropped off even more as they brought newer products to market, they would have sold earlier designs for even less...it is the chinese theft that plays the largest tole in the high price of authentic gear....not the imagined greed of the modders....Doc Dave the modder who designed the Bliss, and the stem turbine and the reactor..used to have a "Fuck Clones" sale where he would sell his attys for like 50.00 and 35.00 ..I bought a micromini from him for 35.00 it was a 100.00 atty....if the modders intellectual property would have been respected Modders across the world world would have been able to make vaping more affordable and they would also have given jobs to people in their own countries...so what is the truth...a small handfull of industrialists profit in China instead of an industry where the profit is shared by a large international group of modders. Just like how dumb ass Americans think they are getting cheaper shit to buy at Walmart...they don't stop to think the price they are paying is going to include their own jobs.
Ha!
I always wonder what the Chinese sales brochure says at the military airshows...
80% off sale!!!
F-35 Style Stealth Fighter Regular $85,000,000 Sale price $17,000,000
Use code: "We Got the Plans for Free!"
Thanks for the information. It is good to know the truth of things other than prejudiced propaganda from certain interested parties who distort and conceal the truth for gains.
The word "Steal" is too heavy to be used in this case. Say the British invented the first tank and deployed it first in 1916. Later in the war the Americans saw the tanks from both sides and probably got the "idea" of such a armored vehicle and they probably start to make their own. Even though not until the end of the Second World War did Americans finally understand what Mechanized Warfare meant, They nevertheless mass produced thousands of the Sherman and helped defeat the Germans. Now would anyone accuse the Americans for "stealing" the designs of the British or German tanks? They simply saw it, got the idea, and made their own tanks, more and better. The world is inhabited by 7 billion people and it doesn't surprise me if many people happen to have the same ideas, even though not in the same time, or that some people are inspired by the works done by people before them. What if the Chinese saw the American Electric Cigarette and got an idea of it and made a better and cheaper one? If that is called theft then many of the technologies that Americans acquired during the industrial revolution, which are behind their British counterparts in time, and similar or exactly the same in design and structure, would also be liable to be accused of theft! The world evolves by people sharing and learning from others, what stops another from doing the same thing or making a better product simply because you have first made yours, though very much inferior both in design and in performance?
Following your line of reasoning, what about the Tanks America stole from the British and the Atom Bomb techonology they stole from the Germans?Ha!
I always wonder what the Chinese sales brochure says at the military airshows...
80% off sale!!!
F-35 Style Stealth Fighter Regular $85,000,000 Sale price $17,000,000
Use code: "We Got the Plans for Free!"
WTF are you talking about the assholes who steal the designs even steal the NAMES and LOGOs and in some cases the packaging of the gear whose designs they steal...you do know what a clone is right....without intellectual theft China's role in vaping would be of no consequence.
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This sounds so much like the Mundo Deportivo, whose only goal is to vilify Real Madriad and to idolize Barcelona! How could information from this one source prove to be authorative when your official remained silent?The US Attorney felt so too. He got caught a couple years back, but the whole plane had already been stolen.
Here's the story.............................
2011 file photo, Chinese Air Force crew members inspect a J-20 stealth fighter in Chengdu, in southwest China's Sichuan province. (Color China Photo via AP, File)
Chinese Man Pleads Guilty to Stealing US Military Aircraft Data
POSTED BY: BRENDAN MCGARRY MARCH 23, 2016
A Chinese man has pleaded guilty in a “years-long” conspiracy to hack into U.S. networks to steal sensitive information, including data on the C-17 cargo plane and fighter jet aircraft, the Justice Department announced Wednesday.
Su Bin, also known as Stephen Su and Stephen Subin, 50, a citizen and resident of the People’s Republic of China, pleaded guilty to the crime in the United States District Court for the Central District of California, according to a press release from the department.
A China-based businessman who worked in the aviation and aerospace fields, Su is accused of playing a role “in the criminal conspiracy to steal military technical data, including data relating to the C-17 strategic transport aircraft and certain fighter jets produced for the U.S. military,” it states.
The release didn’t specify which type of fighter aircraft, though American officials have long pointed to similarities in China’s latest designs as evidence of its successful theft of technical data from the U.S.
During a congressional hearing last fall, Sen. Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia, noted that China’s Chengdu J-20 twin-engine stealth fighter resembles the F-22 Raptor made by Lockheed Martin Corp., while the Shenyang J-31 twin-engine multi-role fighter resembles the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter single-engine design also made by Lockheed.
“I’m saying we know the J-20 is pretty much mirroring our F-22,” Manchin said. “We know that their J-31 is pretty much mirroring our F-35. We we know this and the cost to the American taxpayers … why wouldn’t we take hard actions against them? I just don’t understand why we wouldn’t retaliate from a financial standpoint.”
Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work acknowledged that the Chinese “have stolen information from our defense contractors and it has helped them develop systems.” But he said, “we have hardened our systems.”
As part of the plea deal, Su admitted to working with two people from China from October 2008 to March 2014 to gain unauthorized access to computers belonging to Boeing Co. in Orange County, California, to steal sensitive military information and illegally export it to China, according to the the Justice Department release.
Here’s how they did it, according to the document:
“As part of the conspiracy, Su would e-mail the co-conspirators with guidance regarding what persons, companies and technologies to target during their computer intrusions. One of Su’s co-conspirators would then gain access to information residing on computers of U.S. companies and email Su directory file listings and folders showing the data that the co-conspirator had been able to access. Su then directed his co-conspirator as to which files and folders his co-conspirator should steal. Once the co-conspirator stole the data, including by using techniques to avoid detection when hacking the victim computers, Su translated the contents of certain stolen data from English into Chinese. In addition, Su and his co-conspirators each wrote, revised and emailed reports about the information and technology they had acquired by their hacking activities, including its value, to the final beneficiaries of their hacking activities.”
Su was arrested in Canada in July 2014 and consented to be taken to the U.S. in February, the release states. He faces a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 or twice the amount he gained from the offense, whichever is greatest, it states. He is scheduled to be sentenced on July 13, it states.
Yeah well the Americans didn't make a 1:1 clone of the Mesershcmidt and call it the Liberty fighter.
These two actually looks very different...
I don't know much about the technologies they use on board, but appearance-wise, they definitely aren't even second cousins
as I stated above without intellectual theft China's role in vaping would be of no consequence, the same could be said of dozens of other industires ...are you suggesting the aircraft above is a clone? they do not look it.. I doubt either you or I have the technical ability to make any such claim...without intellectual theft I think the chinese would have control of the "Hello Kitty Mods", but nothing more.
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I get what you mean. People do have different definitions for what intellecuall property. I respect your opinions even though mine isn't exactly the same. You'll have to understand that in the East, say China, Nepal, India, and many other Asian countries (Japan and South Korea excluded because they are very much westernized after the War) have very different notions about intellectual property. In India, if not for generic medicines which are clones of the very expensive inventions of big pharmaceutical companies, hundreds of thousands of people would die for not being able to afford the original medicines. Also in the cell phone business, people in the East imitate each other in designs and technologies because if not for this, many people would simply lose the previlage of possessing a moible. I understand in America because an average person is rich enough, he is able to appreciate the their IP laws (man-made nevertheless, and do not necessarily apply to other nations), but in the East things are different. Here I am not aquitting the Chinese of their sins if they really did "steal the design" of America-made products as many people so allege, but if people could take another point of view maybe there wouldn't be so many disputes by which one nation is inflamed and another indifferent.
yeah that is kind of bullshit...the huge great vast majority of China is still in abject poverty,the great industrail boom of China has only benifited a small handfull of thieves.to try and pass their greed,and corruption off as a virtue of trying to ellivate the people is so ridiculous....as to be breath taking. Besides many of the designs that the Chines stole they stole from the Phillipines,,,now if the modders of the Phillipines had been able to build a vaping industry without fear of the Chinese stealing their designs..... perhaps instead of a chinese workers being able to afford a cell phone a worker at a phillipino modder's factory could afford a cell phone...By the way the reason people in America are so rich is because we respect private property including people's intellectual property it gives the common man the oppurtunity,and motivation to grow and create wealth, without the fear some corrupt piece of shit who belongs to the political apparatus coming along and stealing what he created ...and with his wealth he creates jobs for other men ...vaping became a billion dollar industry based on the work and designs of small groups of individuals working in their own shops and garages,that is what built the industry not corrupt Industrialists in China....the idea that you have a right to steal for the common good is still stealing.The Chinese Industrialists have stolen the designs of poor men..not rich men, men who could have been rich men the modders not just from America but from all around the world,the phillipines,Japan,Korea,russia Italy,france england greece poland, portugal,germany,.......It is the small individual modders all around the world who got ripped off, it is the whole vaping community who got ripped off by having our best and brightest minds driven out of bussiness by corrupt industrialists in China and the West.....You know I live in one of the most diverse communities on the planet..over 100 languages are spoken including Chinese.....and guess what.... no matter if you are from the East or the West we all agree on what stealing is....
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Wrong plane... That is a propaganda photo designed to mislead those unwilling to pursue the truth.
THIS is the aircraft that China STOLE the plans to. The Chinese national confessed and laid out all the details
of the crimes... and how the data was transferred to Chinese officials. He's in prison now, but not for near long enough.
This F-35 is the engineering the Chinese stole... to make their J-31 fighter... or as I like to call it, The Wismec J-31.
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Okay, Thanks for the correction. It's good to knowWrong plane... That is a propaganda photo designed to mislead those unwilling to pursue the truth.
THIS is the aircraft that China STOLE the plans to. The Chinese national confessed and laid out all the details
of the crimes... and how the data was transferred to Chinese officials. He's in prison now, but not for near long enough.
This F-35 is the engineering the Chinese stole... to make their J-31 fighter... or as I like to call it, The Wismec J-31.
I found my previous photo on google though
AndriaD
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I think the US gov't probably foments the xenophobic attitudes, because it takes the heat off them for basically regulating the US right out of the mass production business -- one look at China's air quality shows you why the US imposed all the regulations on airborne emissions, which are unavoidable with certain industries, thus causing those industries to be heavily fined, so that eventually it was cheaper to outsource the labor, and to hell with American jobs and economy! That's exactly the root of all the hostility toward China; jobs that used to be here, polluting the US's air, are now being performed in China and other out-of-sight/out-of-mind places... and in China, it certainly shows. When China finally figures out that it's hard to have a viable country when half the population dies of inhaled toxins, everything in the world will get a lot more expensive.
Andria
well it could be..that if you are in China...google has conspired with the goverment to censor the internet.
"Imitate" might be a better word. Many things are not patented and there should be no bar to prevent late comers
Google was banned in mainland China in 2010. Google hates Chinese Government. There is no reason it should conspire with Chinese government.
Theft ,and lies seem to be the appropriate words to use. You know what the fuck a clone is right...please answer that question...explain to me how a 1:1 clone is an imitation....
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Give me an example where the Chinese have 1:1 cloned something that Americans made first and I will answer your question!
are you a fucking idiot? how long have you been vaping like two weeks...almost every major mod or atty developed has been cloned 1;1 by Chinese cloners.... I can't believe anyone would go an a vaping forum and say something so incrdeiblly fucking stupid.
Your culture? Now stop using paper, compass, and gunpowder because the Chinese invented it when there was only the native Indians on the new Continent! Why do you have to make everything yours? Even the language you use is not yours, its English
Now we can do without these offensive words. Let us speak like reasonable people. If I am wrong, prove it and I will be thankful to be corrected it. But it is very impolite, insulting indeed to use language just like that and attack me. Yes, I am a new vaper and I might not know much, but I have as much right to state my opinions as you do, and I do it very politely.
Back to the question, it is a Chinese who has invented the first modern E-cigarette in the market after several decades of silence in the U.S. side. Same concept and similar structure are used, and so it is in the car industry where Ford mass produced cars not very much different from European cars.
Now I will just quote what's on Wikipedia about the history of E-cigarettes
Hon Lik registered a patent for the modern e-cigarette design in 2003.[164] The e-cigarette was first introduced to the Chinese domestic market in 2004.[27] Many versions made their way to the U.S., sold mostly over the Internet by small marketing firms.[27] E-cigarettes entered the European market and the US market in 2006 and 2007.[46] The company that Lik worked for, Golden Dragon Holdings, registered an international patent in November 2007.[165] The company changed its name to Ruyan, later the same month[166] and started exporting its products.[27] Many US and Chinese e-cig makers copied his designs illegally, so Lik has not received much financial reward for his invention (although some US manufacturers have compensated him through out of court settlements).[167] Ruyan later changed its company name to Dragonite International Limited.[166] Most e-cigarettes today use a battery-powered heating element rather than the earlier ultrasonic technology design.[128]
Now who is copying whom?
go fuck yourself ...asshole. A polite liar is still a liar, a polite thief is still a thief.
Quite prejudiced
yes.... I don't like liars or thieves.
First acquaint youself with more facts and then make judgements. It will be more persuasive that way.
The thing is you little lying sack of shit is...I'm not trying to persuade anybody....I learned a long time ago you never trust someone whose proven themself to be a liar and a thief repeatedly no matter what excuse or story they offer...you just write them off.or they will rip you off. I've been an active vaper for close to 5 years I doubt there is much you could accquaint me with,
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That particular idiot has never met a fact he couldn't cuss at and demonstrate his stupidity about.
Andria
hey Andria why don't you take your wooden teeth and your banjo and crawl back up into your holler .That particular idiot has never met a fact he couldn't cuss at and demonstrate his stupidity about.
Andria
I am really hating this personal attack now. Can't we all be more civilized since we have reason to think with and language to speak with?