Kayfun V4 by Tobeco Questions

[VapesXO]

Hey, guys.

I bought a Kaybun V4 by Tobeco from Vape NW, and got it today.
After opening it, setting it up, etc. I find I have some questions.

My Questions:

1. Does anyone know the size of the post screws used? The ones for securing the coil leads.
   
   • They must be cheap screws, because 2 of them are already stripped...​
2. I was told that the flavor would far surpass my Mini Nautilus, but it doesn't seem to. Why?
   
   • My coil is a 28 gauge, 1.6 ohm, with Japanese Organic Cotton on an iStick 20W at 14.0W.
   • Perhaps my wick is too thin? A thicker one wouldn't go through the coil though...​

Here's a picture of my deck is it presently is.

Thanks, guys!

 

[Garemlin]

The deck screw is an M1.6 x 3mm. I actually replace all of my Kayfun and Lemo (same size) screws with allen head. Pack of 25 on ebay for under $5 shipped.

 

[VapesXO]

The deck screw is an M1.6 x 3mm. I actually replace all of my Kayfun and Lemo (same size) screws with allen head. Pack of 25 on ebay for under $5 shipped.

Thank you! I'm gonna call my local hardware stores and see if they have them.
I'm betting they don't because of how small they are, but it's worth a shot.

 

[Garemlin]

Thank you! I'm gonna call my local hardware stores and see if they have them.
I'm betting they don't because of how small they are, but it's worth a shot.

Highly doubt they will. Just grab them on eBay. Even if you don't want allens.

Tap'd from my LG G3

 

[VapesXO]

Highly doubt they will. Just grab them on eBay. Even if you don't want allens.

Well, I work for a floor care company that has a contract with Valu Home Centers.
We're currently stripping all the stores (every winter), so I'll look when I get there tonight.

If they have them; great. If not; eBay!

 

[Panther1911]

I run mine at slightly lower ohms (1.2ohms), i get pretty decent flavor

 

[VapesXO]

I run mine at slightly lower ohms (1.2ohms), i get pretty decent flavor

Yeah, this was my first time ever building a coil.
I actually aimed for 1.8 ohms and got 1.6, so I must've counted wrong, lol.

 

[Panther1911]

i am running 9-10 wraps of 26ga around a 3/32" bit, comes out to around 1.2 for me

 

[BoomStick]

What diameter coil? How far above the air hole is the coil? Is the wick completely filling the coil?
The only way to reduce resistance is to use less wire which means less contact area between coil and juice. Don't do that. You would get less vapor and flavor.

 

[BoomStick]

I've played with my kayfun a lot with 28g wire. My best flavor setup is as follows:
28g
7/64" inner diameter (about 2.7mm)
9 wraps
Cotton wick
16.5 to 17.0 watts
Measures 2.1 ohms, but don't pay too much attention to that. Different atty and different ohm meter can cause different reading even with identical coil.

If I use even 1 or 2 less wraps, flavor falls off. Same for not using enough power. I'm betting you have a little less surface area than what you need. Since we're using the same gauge wire, try my build. Keep turning the power up until it's obvious you've gone too far, then back it down to what seems just right. The istick's regulation is not accurate and i doubt we are using the same juice so you might not end up at the same watt setting as me. I think with more surface area and a little more power you'll get closer to flavor heaven. It's about surface area and heat. Resistance is just a number so forget about that for now. As long as you get a stable reading that's not too crazy low or high, coil geometry and applied power are more important.

 

[VapesXO]

I've played with my kayfun a lot with 28g wire. My best flavor setup is as follows:
28g
7/64" inner diameter (about 2.7mm)
9 wraps
Cotton wick
16.5 to 17.0 watts
Measures 2.1 ohms, but don't pay too much attention to that. Different atty and different ohm meter can cause different reading even with identical coil.

If I use even 1 or 2 less wraps, flavor falls off. Same for not using enough power. I'm betting you have a little less surface area than what you need. Since we're using the same gauge wire, try my build. Keep turning the power up until it's obvious you've gone too far, then back it down to what seems just right. The istick's regulation is not accurate and i doubt we are using the same juice so you might not end up at the same watt setting as me. I think with more surface area and a little more power you'll get closer to flavor heaven. It's about surface area and heat. Resistance is just a number so forget about that for now. As long as you get a stable reading that's not too crazy low or high, coil geometry and applied power are more important.

Thanks for the reply, man!

Right now I've got to look into getting a couple of things.

1. A labeled set of hex wrenches or micro screwdrivers, so I know what diameter my coil will be.
2. Some new coil screws for my build deck.
3. Maybe, possibly, if I feel lazy; a Coil Master Kit.

The wrenches and screwdrivers I have now aren't labeled, so I used one that looked good.
I've got the coil sitting a little bit above the air hole; not too high or too low though (I don't think).
It's hard to see in that picture, but yes; the wick completely fills to coil. It slides through easily though.

Once I get a new set of wrenches or screwdrivers, as well as coil screws, I'll be able to fiddle more.
I used this Coil Wrapping Calculator to help me make my coil.

 

[BoomStick]

A cheap set of drill bits works well. Only a couple bucks.

 

[VapesXO]

A cheap set of drill bits works well. Only a couple bucks.

Doh! I don't know why I never thought of that...
Especially since Rip uses a lot of drill bits in his coil wrapping videos.

 

[Garemlin]

Thanks for the reply, man!

Right now I've got to look into getting a couple of things.

1. A labeled set of hex wrenches or micro screwdrivers, so I know what diameter my coil will be.
2. Some new coil screws for my build deck.
3. Maybe, possibly, if I feel lazy; a Coil Master Kit.

The wrenches and screwdrivers I have now aren't labeled, so I used one that looked good.
I've got the coil sitting a little bit above the air hole; not too high or too low though (I don't think).
It's hard to see in that picture, but yes; the wick completely fills to coil. It slides through easily though.

Once I get a new set of wrenches or screwdrivers, as well as coil screws, I'll be able to fiddle more.
I used this Coil Wrapping Calculator to help me make my coil.

$3.99
6 Pc Precision Screwdriver Set with Molded Handles

$6.82
Kuro Koiler Wire Coiling Tool (3-Piece Set)


I prefer using micro screwdrivers over drill bits as you have the handle to press the coil against.

 

[vapecrazycountrydude]

If you want better clouds I will refer you to riptrippers.com he has a coil on their called the twisted dual parallel of course you won't be able to put a second one but that RDA looks as if it would be awesome for the coil

 

[jackssurvival]

Got my screwdriver from walmart 2 bucks. And I hold the wire tight with hemistats I got free at Dr. I would try organic cotton i don't have much luck with the Japanese cotton i in a kayfun but it's great in a dripper

 

[Robert Bowne]

to get the taste factor to an acceptable level i would say use a .5 - .9 ohm 28g build single micro coil and that should improve the taste...

 

[VapesXO]

$3.99
6 Pc Precision Screwdriver Set with Molded Handles

$6.82
Kuro Koiler Wire Coiling Tool (3-Piece Set)


I prefer using micro screwdrivers over drill bits as you have the handle to press the coil against.

Thanks for the links!

If you want better clouds I will refer you to riptrippers.com he has a coil on their called the twisted dual parallel of course you won't be able to put a second one but that RDA looks as if it would be awesome for the coil

I'm not really into Cloud Chasing. I'll take a potent flavor with minimal vapor over a huge cloud with weak flavor any day.

Got my screwdriver from walmart 2 bucks. And I hold the wire tight with hemistats I got free at Dr. I would try organic cotton i don't have much luck with the Japanese cotton i in a kayfun but it's great in a dripper

This cotton IS organic; it just also happens to be grown in Japan.
It's hard to find truly organic cotton that was grown in the US; it's almost always treated or bleached.

to get the taste factor to an acceptable level i would say use a .5 - .9 ohm 28g build single micro coil and that should improve the taste...

See, now that contradicts what Boomstick said above, and he really seems to know his Kayfuns.
Plus, if you read my first post, I noted that I have an iStick 20W, which can't sub-ohm.
I do plan to upgrade to the iStick 50W in the near future though...

 

[BoomStick]

to get the taste factor to an acceptable level i would say use a .5 - .9 ohm 28g build single micro coil and that should improve the taste...

That's ridiculous. That would not be near enough wire. There would hardly be any surface area. With a 20w power supply he can sufficiently heat much more wire providing more vapor and flavor.

 

[Garemlin]

See, now that contradicts what Boomstick said above, and he really seems to know his Kayfuns.
Plus, if you read my first post, I noted that I have an iStick 20W, which can't sub-ohm.
I do plan to upgrade to the iStick 50W in the near future though...

The sweet spot for Kayfuns is the 1.4Ω - 1.6Ω range. This is widely known. Ask most people who use Kayfuns and watch the reviews from people who have extensive experience with them. That is the range I run mine in. I have tried higher and lower and flavor always suffers. Of course alot depends on the juice that you use. Many people use higher VG juices in their tanks so run different builds with higher power.

 

[BoomStick]

He already stated that he's using a 1.6ohm coil and the flavor is lacking. Telling him that's the sweet spot or even to use less coil is obviously not the solution in this case.

 

[Garemlin]

That's ridiculous. That would not be near enough wire. There would hardly be any surface area. With a 20w power supply he can sufficiently heat much more wire providing more vapor and flavor.

Yup. Ideally 8-10 wraps is good for a Kayfun. Gives plenty of surface area. But some people try and like different things. He could be running a 1.5mm coil at .9Ω coil which would be around 8 wraps. If that works for him then that is good.

 

[InMyImage]

I was running 1.5-1.6 in my Kayfun but didn't like the ramp up time. I recently started building them at 1.2 ohms around with a 1.6 mm ID using 28g Kanthal and using a 9/8 wrap and I'm very happy with both the flavor and the heat whether I'm using my Apollo or my ZNA 30.

 

[Garemlin]

I was running 1.5-1.6 in my Kayfun but didn't like the ramp up time. I recently started building them at 1.2 ohms around with a 1.6 mm ID using 28g Kanthal and using a 9/8 wrap and I'm very happy with both the flavor and the heat whether I'm using my Apollo or my ZNA 30.

I just don't think that a coil that small in diameter is good for a Kayfun. Not enough wicking. I just tried a 26g build on my Kayfun v4 yesterday for the first time. Usually use 28g. 2.4mm 10/9 wraps. Came out to 1.2Ω. Pretty good flavor and vapor.

 

[Garemlin]

He already stated that he's using a 1.6ohm coil and the flavor is lacking. Telling him that's the sweet spot or even to use less coil is obviously not the solution in this case.

Wasn't talking about the OP. The other guy running the .5Ω - .9Ω.

 

[InMyImage]

I just don't think that a coil that small in diameter is good for a Kayfun. Not enough wicking. I just tried a 26g build on my Kayfun v4 yesterday for the first time. Usually use 28g. 2.4mm 10/9 wraps. Came out to 1.2Ω. Pretty good flavor and vapor.

I originally tried it because I was trying to work on methods to try to stop my Orchid v4 from leaking. It worked on the first Orchid build I did, which of course runs at .6, so I tried it on my last Kayfun build and it is wicking fine and tastes at least as good as the 2.4 ID coils I was building previously.
I will say that I was concerned when I first stuffed the cotton down into the side spaces because it didn't fill them up the way the larger wick did, but like I said, it is wicking fine and no leaks.
I may move the Kayfun back up to 2.4 again just because the larger wick is easier to work with, but thought I'd throw it out there as an option that is working for me.

 

[BoomStick]

Wasn't talking about the OP. The other guy running the .5Ω - .9Ω.

I see.

 

[BoomStick]

Yup. Ideally 8-10 wraps is good for a Kayfun. Gives plenty of surface area. But some people try and like different things. He could be running a 1.5mm coil at .9Ω coil which would be around 8 wraps. If that works for him then that is good.

Yeah, I use 9 wraps but have to use a 2.7mm (7/64") coil because of the max vg I use. Any smaller and I start having wicking issues unless I turn the power way down. Then the vapor and flavor are killed.

 

[VapesXO]

Wow! Thanks for the awesome information, guys! Once I get some new deck screws (the M1.6x3mm ones), I'll start playing around with different coils. Seeing as I only have two that still work, I don't want to risk stripping them and not being able to use my Kayfun until I get more.

 

[VapesXO]

Okay; I'm confused now.

I went to my local Ace Hardware (within walking distance) and they have screws that work.
They're M1.6x6mm instead of 3mm, but they still fit, and screw all the way down.

That means that the holes for these screws are threaded as far as 6mm down.
So, why are the screws they give you only 3mm long? Is that why they're stripping out so easily?

The ones they had are Zinc though, so I still need to buy some off eBay or elsewhere, as these will rust.
They'll work for now though, until I get Stainless Steel ones.
Should I get 3mm or 6mm though? I wasn't cranking on the originals, yet they still stripped really easily.

 

[InMyImage]

Okay; I'm confused now.

I went to my local Ace Hardware (within walking distance) and they have screws that work.
They're M1.6x6mm instead of 3mm, but they still fit, and screw all the way down.

That means that the holes for these screws are threaded as far as 6mm down.
So, why are the screws they give you only 3mm long? Is that why they're stripping out so easily?

The ones they had are Zinc though, so I still need to buy some off eBay or elsewhere, as these will rust.
They'll work for now though, until I get Stainless Steel ones.
Should I get 3mm or 6mm though? I wasn't cranking on the originals, yet they still stripped really easily.

Are you aware that zinc vapors are toxic and should not be inhaled?

 

[VapesXO]

Are you aware that zinc vapors are toxic and should not be inhaled?

I was not. I won't be using these then.

So, should I get 3mm or 6mm Stainless Steel screws from eBay?
If the ones that came with it are true SS, they sure stripped easily...
Maybe because they're so short or something? I don't know.

 

[VapesXO]

Well, I just finished building the coil that you recommended, [USER]BoomStick[/USER].
9 wraps around a 7/64 drill bit, which came out to 1.8 ohms.
The flavor seems to be roughly the same as the previous coil though...
I can only get up to 16.8 watts with this coil, at 5.4 volts.

Maybe I'm not using enough wicking? It's thick enough that I have to roll the end to get it through the coil.
It slides easily through the coil; not TOO easy, but I don't have to yank on it or anything.

It could be my juice, maybe? But my friend uses the same juice in his Atlantis and gets much stronger flavor.

 

[BoomStick]

For the screws, if the longer ones screw all the way down they would have more threads engaged which seems like that would be better.
For the build, I don't know. My build comes out to 2.1 ohms and at 17 watts it's getting 6.0v. Different equipment may provide slightly different numbers. My flavor is strong. Other than making sure the wick is in full contact with the entire inner surface of the coil, I really don't know what else to suggest. You can't supply any more voltage? Is your friends juice exactly the same? Pg/vg ratio, nic level? Extra flavor shot or something?

 

[BoomStick]

Also, what mod at what setting is your friend using? The Atlantis uses a vertical coil surrounded by wicking material and has much more airflow than a kayfun. Very different setup. If it's a matter of needing more heat to get the flavor to come out and your mod is maxed out on power, maybe you'll have to try a parallel coil using thinner wire. That way you can still get a fair amount of surface area without having the resistance get too high and the thinner wire won't be as hard to heat.

 

[InMyImage]

I was not. I won't be using these then.

So, should I get 3mm or 6mm Stainless Steel screws from eBay?
If the ones that came with it are true SS, they sure stripped easily...
Maybe because they're so short or something? I don't know.

I'll defer to those who have purchased them in the past. I'm expecting my v4 from Cigabuy to arrive tomorrow with a mod I won and will let you all know how clean it is after I look it over.
I'm surprised by the info that you have been reporting though and hope it is just a push to get stuff out so quickly because of competition. I know EHPro and Infinite have good reps and Tobeco KFL+v2 and Orchid v4 I have were impeccably clean. I examine mine with a qtip wipe when I open them.

As for the zinc screws issue. I'm only aware of it because I do some welding and when welding zinc coated metal you have to be careful about the fumes. It really takes a lot to get to dangerous levels but several people I know through a bike building forum have reported getting light headed from relatively small exposure and it's better safe than sorry.

 

[BoomStick]

Yeah, stainless screws are the way to go. Good info InMyImage.

 

[VapesXO]

For the screws, if the longer ones screw all the way down they would have more threads engaged which seems like that would be better.
For the build, I don't know. My build comes out to 2.1 ohms and at 17 watts it's getting 6.0v. Different equipment may provide slightly different numbers. My flavor is strong. Other than making sure the wick is in full contact with the entire inner surface of the coil, I really don't know what else to suggest. You can't supply any more voltage? Is your friends juice exactly the same? Pg/vg ratio, nic level? Extra flavor shot or something?

The wick definitely makes full contact with the coil, so I don't think that's the problem.
He uses the same flavor and mixture (VG/PG), but he uses nicotine and I don't.
Next time I pick some up from them, I'm asking them to add extra flavor to it.

Also, what mod at what setting is your friend using? The Atlantis uses a vertical coil surrounded by wicking material and has much more airflow than a kayfun. Very different setup. If it's a matter of needing more heat to get the flavor to come out and your mod is maxed out on power, maybe you'll have to try a parallel coil using thinner wire. That way you can still get a fair amount of surface area without having the resistance get too high and the thinner wire won't be as hard to heat.

He's using a Cloupor T8 with his Atlantis, running around 50 watts, I think.
I love the flavor on his setup, but don't really want to go back to buying BVC heads.

I'll go with the 6mm screws, I guess. Since they fit without issue, I might as well.
Maybe the longer screw will make a difference.
Or should I get washers too? Will those help prevent stripping?

 

[InMyImage]

Normally it is standard practice in other applications to use the longest screws you can because it distributes the stress to more threads better. However, if the posts are only drilled but not threaded all the way, then the only benefit will be for the depth of the threading.

 

[BoomStick]

The washers will help trapping, but I don't see how they'll prevent stripping. If the screws stripped and not the hole, that's good. Longer, quality stainless screws should take care of your issues.
A big airflow atty at 50 watts is gonna be different than a more restricted airflow atty running at 16 watts. What's your pg/vg ratio?

 

[VapesXO]

Well, here are some options then.

1. Hardened Steel with Nickel Coating
2. Stainless Steel?
3. Black Alloy Steel

My juice is 70VG/30PG I think.

 

[BoomStick]

The #2 screws are not stainless. I'd find some that are.

 

[VapesXO]

Will the first screws or the third screws work? The third ones sound really solid.

 

[InMyImage]

Well, here are some options then.

1. Hardened Steel with Nickel Coating
2. Stainless Steel?
3. Black Alloy Steel

My juice is 70VG/30PG I think.

Personally, I'd stay away from anything that had an oxide coating. Stainless is food grade and would be the safest route and is generally as strong as any other alloy you would buy screws of.

 

[BoomStick]

I don't know about that material. I would only trust stainless steel.

 

[VapesXO]

What about these?

 

[InMyImage]

Here is a useful site with info on the different grades of stainless steel fasteners: http://www.portlandbolt.com/technical/faqs/18-8-304-and-316-stainless-steel/

Here is an eBay listing that would seem to be a good option: http://ebay.to/15yoabM

316 grade SS is best for corrosive environments and given the impact of "tank buster" juices would probably give an extra layer of protection against corrosion above 304 or 18-8.

Any grade of SS is going to be really durable though.

 

[VapesXO]

That's so expensive though.

 

[InMyImage]

That's so expensive though.

I posted it simply because they aren't that much more than the link you posted for the ones you thought were SS. The 18-8 ones are probably sufficient, just change them out if you notice any sort of salt looking stuff starting to form on them. You'll have enough

 

[BoomStick]

Few stainless atomizers are 316. The last ones you linked are surely ok.