A moral dilemma

[Steamin Demon]

I love the idea of creating and sharing DIY recipes.
Today I happened to mix something that I noticed familiar.
There is a very popular flavor that people have been trying to clone for a while and in my opinion no one has come close to duplicating a very signature part of that flavor.
Today I am almost positive I have duplicated this flavor, at least closer than any recipe I have found. This was by total accident as I don't even like the original.
So when we clone a recipe spot on, and we release that recipe to the general public, are we in fact causing harm to the company that spent months and thousands of dollars establishing a product line and marketing it?
Or is our community small enough that it really doesn't make a difference?
I know many people will never bother to mix their own and I know many of us DIY people almost never buy pre made juices any way. I just want to do the right thing.
Maybe someone somewhere has nailed this recipe already but I haven't found it.

 

[Whiskey]

Good question, I am sure you'll get some interesting responses to this.

 

[Zamazam]

If you experiment and make a recipe that is like the real thing, share it if you wish. It's a recipe you tinkered with and it's good, then it's up to you to share or not. No moral dilemma here. Most vapers will buy juice. The DIY'ers won't affect sales since most DIY'ers make their own.

 

[Huckleberried]

Well, I know you want opinions of what others think, and I'm sure you'll get that. I think people sit on both sides of the fence on this. I also think it's a matter of how someone perceives that flavor. Some people like A, others don't. Some people will think it tastes exactly like A, while others won't think so.

You've created something that, in your opinion, tastes exactly like A. There's no way to know if it's made with the same ingredients as A, though.

Should you post the recipe? Really, I think that only you can decide that. I know this won't help you much, but it's my input.

 

[dnezarmichael]

I just don't believe in the "Costs us thousands, to develop" , unless they are doing the real deal extractions of nicotine and flavorings.

But that is why I participate, cause the very little I know, I like to share.

I also love learning from and about people.

 

[Teresa P]

Juice makers use the same flavorings we do, no monopoly there. The "recipe" comes from a specific combination of said flavors. Did you knowingly use someone's exact flavoring and percentages? No. Are you using the same name for this liquid as the vendor? No. You stumbled onto something tasty, which is fortunate, but unless you're using the name and manufacturing for mass profit, I personally see no harm.

 

[richardward77]

Do juice makers really use the same flavourings as us diy ers I imagined them having some mad underground lab like a James bond baddie or something like that.

Sent from my ST23i using Tapatalk

 

[Teresa P]

Do juice makers really use the same flavourings as us diy ers I imagined them having some mad underground lab like a James bond baddie or something like that.

Sent from my ST23i using Tapatalk

Lol! No, they never have a "Vendors Stash" section on the websites I order from!

 

[Steamin Demon]

All good points. Still need to do a few tweaks and let it steep for a while to see how much the flavor changes. As I'm sure this is a pre steeped liquid. Thx.

 

[wllmc]

I think thats why we all started DIY and continue to chatter about it. If you think you made the bees knees clone and want to share it I'd say share away.

 

[Barbara E.]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. Firstly, people taste things very differently. Just because it tastes like 'XXX' to you doesn't mean other people will feel the same. Secondly, what if you had never tried 'XXX'? In fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of DIY recipes posted taste like some other commercial eliquid out there. Thirdly, you developed this recipe yourself. You're not claiming it's 'XXX', just that it tastes like 'XXX' to you. I could come up with a recipe for a cola that tastes just like 'Coke' to me and I can do anything I want with it as long as I don't claim it *is* 'Coke'.

 

[Teresa P]

That's where the word "clone" comes into play.

 

[Tom950]

Unless you broke in and stole their exact recipe with percentages and such then theres really no moral delimma. Everyone uses the same flavorings so it not impossible for someone to come up with an almost identical match in flavors. Most DIY don't buy pre-made since they DIY to save money to begin with. Theres no retail money that would be lost anyway.

 

[HeadInClouds]

One question to think about: is there some reason people would want to clone it, other than saving money?

If the company makes it only in VG, your DIY version allows PG vapers to have the flavor.
If they refuse to answer questions about diketones, a clone is a public service.

And on the other hand, if it's mom and pop earning their living off it, that's just not nice.

On the third hand, if it's a popular flavor you can give your own recipe it's own name - see if people recognize it, and you'll know if's really a close match or not.

I ran out of hands.

 

[Steamin Demon]

One question to think about: is there some reason people would want to clone it, other than saving money?

If the company makes it only in VG, your DIY version allows PG vapers to have the flavor.
If they refuse to answer questions about diketones, a clone is a public service.

And on the other hand, if it's mom and pop earning their living off it, that's just not nice.

On the third hand, if it's a popular flavor you can give your own recipe it's own name - see if people recognize it, and you'll know if's really a close match or not.

I ran out of hands.

I like the third hand! And who knows with taste being so subjective maybe I'm not as close as I think. I'm going to get my third tasters opinion soon.

 

[Mattp169]

let me give HIC some more hands and play devils advocate.
lets say its a very popular juice that is sold in stores world wide.
you actually got it so close it doesnt matter
you post said recipe.
everyone agrees its as good as the commercial juice.
Asshat 1 looks on here sees the recipes and comments starts selling counterfeit juice.
Asshat 2 sees the recipe and makes it under his/her own name and cuts into profit of the original juice maker
Asshat 3 knows Asshats 1 and 2 and changes certain ingredients and these new ingredients dont alter the taste enough for most to notice but they do contain AP/DA/BA and starts selling it as counterfeit to original juice or asshat 2's juice now people are vaping a juice and don't know it has diketones in it

In any event, are you responsible for the actions of any of these asshats???? Nope not IMHO

 

[BigNasty]

Funny when you can smell a produced juice and know what exactly the flavors they are using.

 

[VinceV1]

So, what is the grail ?

 

[dnezarmichael]

Funny when you can smell a produced juice and know what exactly the flavors they are using.

Yup, I feel slightly ashamed and pissed (if its a single flavor) at the same time, lol

 

[Steamin Demon]

Cereal killa. Which I thinks sucks, but people love this stuff.
It's always being cloned to taste like fruit loops and I personally
prefer those recipes.
But if you've ever had the real thing it will not taste anything like those recipes.
Or froot loops.
Like many of you have pointed out it might not be the same recipe but I believe there are definitely some flavor molecules being shared here.
The ingredient I stumbled upon that gives CK it's distinguishing flavor note
Is a rather large amount of tfa Belgian waffle.
I'll post in recipes the full first run.

 

[sonarman]

Not a fan of CK either. I get a dry throaty cardboard taste.

 

[Huckleberried]

Not a fan of CK either. I get a dry throaty cardboard taste.

You just described my first vaping experience!!

 

[outwest]

IMHO, there are basically 5 types of vapers:
those that only (or almost only) buy premium stuff and dont DIY
those that primary buy shop juice and maaaaybee once in a while splurge on a premium juice
those that DIY but will buy routinely a premium juice or two because they really like a certain one and dunno an exact clone recipe
those that DIY but will buy the occasional premium because they want to taste test something, or because sometimes their schedule too busy to DIY
those that DIY and never or almost never buy juice

The only ones I see that would really affect sales of the company/person that came up with the original is group 3. That being said, many of those will still swear that the clone isn't the same and will buy the premium, even if the clone was made using the exact same ingredients with the same %'s. That's because part of any product is perceived value, which is affected by things such as marketing hype, packaging, etc.

The part of group 3 that isn't affected by the hype and thinks the clone is the same (or close enough) will not buy the premium as often, but customers not buying as often (for whatever reason) is something every business has to deal with and why every business, no matter what type of product they sell, has to continually come up with new stuff. If the maker of the original isn't routinely coming up with new mixes, they'll eventually have slumping sales anyway because many of their customers will eventually move on to a different, newer, fresher, more exciting eliquid. I, personally, don't see it as a big deal.

 

[ColeGirl1]

Folks have been copying (creating their own recipes at home) prepared foods since prepared foods have been marketed. Is it different for juice?

 

[VinceV1]

Folks have been copying (creating their own recipes at home) prepared foods since prepared foods have been marketed. Is it different for juice?

No copyrights on food recipes... only on labels and names.

 

[Steamin Demon]

It's posted. If ck is your thing go for it and let me know what you think it needs or doesn't need. It tasted very close to me and two friends that actually buy the stuff.
I'll feel like a dope if no one agrees! Lol