Bit of a rant here.

[Huckleberried]

I will preface this by saying I'm tired. I worked a very long, hard day today. Part of me says not to post this at all, but it's something that's on my mind a lot while I'm on VU lately. Anyone that knows me here, know I'm not a mean person. I'm easy to get along with in real life, too.

Why, when someone posts a recipe that they make, do others post another recipe on that thread? I mean, people sometimes take pain-staking ventures into DIY to find a vape that they like. I'm still fairly new at this, myself. I love to make things. If I find a mix that I think others might enjoy, I like to post it up and share it. Others do that, too. MANY of them! For that, I'm very thankful.

But, still, why? Why do people have to post their own recipes up IN THAT SAME THREAD, right after someone shares their work?

I'm not calling out anyone in particular here. I see it everywhere. If someone asks, then sure, help away. But, why not just post up your own recipe? I think it's a valid question and a valid thought.

... I'm posting this anyway. I'm tired and cranky and won't ramble anymore. But thanks for reading and maybe thinking about it.

[/rant]

 

[Prsurf2k]

Yeah I see what you mean but.... I don't think that those that do that (post another recipe) are doint it to one up or push their recipe as better. If its is the same recipe, I think they do it to show others who visit that thread that there are may ways to acheive the same recipe with different ingredients. Like different flavor brands or diferent ingredients that may round out the recipe or sweeten it and son and so forth. Now If people post diferent recipes on a thread for one particular recipe yeah then this is uncalled for you just derailed the recipe thread. But if its same rcipe just diferent ways to get it I think its ok. Just difernt ways to acheive the same goal. This is IMHO.

 

[Hobby Kid]

I will preface this by saying I'm tired. I worked a very long, hard day today. Part of me says not to post this at all, but it's something that's on my mind a lot while I'm on VU lately. Anyone that knows me here, know I'm not a mean person. I'm easy to get along with in real life, too.

Why, when someone posts a recipe that they make, do others post another recipe on that thread? I mean, people sometimes take pain-staking ventures into DIY to find a vape that they like. I'm still fairly new at this, myself. I love to make things. If I find a mix that I think others might enjoy, I like to post it up and share it. Others do that, too. MANY of them! For that, I'm very thankful.

But, still, why? Why do people have to post their own recipes up IN THAT SAME THREAD, right after someone shares their work?

I'm not calling out anyone in particular here. I see it everywhere. If someone asks, then sure, help away. But, why not just post up your own recipe? I think it's a valid question and a valid thought.

... I'm posting this anyway. I'm tired and cranky and won't ramble anymore. But thanks for reading and maybe thinking about it.

[/rant]

Yes you make a good point huck. I share your frustration. It's actually something that's been a habit in most vape forums. True, as Prsurf2k says there are many ways to achieve the same recipe with different ingredients. But there are also members who aren't that confident to start their own posts and feel secure tucking their ideas away in another - rather like a shy person blending into a crowd. I'm sure if a post is a useful discussion then members will always revert to the original post.

 

[Smoky Blue]

and there are others that do it, that have something similar, that like to share..
sharing is what makes any diy juice area a better place

 

[Cramptholomew]

There is such a thing as oversharing... Which is usually the result of an inferiority complex, where someone's only value of self worth comes from how much they hear themselves talk. That's not always the case, though. There is also social ineptitude, where someone just doesn't have a filter.

Once, I posted a similar recipe on one of @wllmc recipe threads, and decided later that if my recipe was good enough to share, I should've just made my own thread. I didn't end up posting my recipe, because it wasn't really better than what was already posted, just different, and I didn't want to steal the glory of a posted recipe.

There IS that, you know, the glory of a posted recipe... If I posted a recipe, one that I'd worked hard at, and had FINALLY deemed worthy enough to share, the LAST thing I'd want to immediately see on my post was someone else's suggestions on how to make it differently, or advice on how to improve it.

I dunno. That's just me. So, yeah, I agree with Huck.

 

[Smoky Blue]

perhaps i should have said:

liked to share a similar view point, wither to improve or or show a different spin..
after all.. how many often adjust on seeing something else shared?

Advice is like opinions, we all have some to give.. it's the choice of the reader to either appreciate or take offense.

 

[Cramptholomew]

perhaps i should have said:

liked to share a similar view point, wither to improve or or show a different spin..
after all.. how many often adjust on seeing something else shared?

Advice is like opinions, we all have some to give.. it's the choice of the reader to either appreciate or take offense.

So, basically, you're saying you don't care how OP feels about unrequested advice/opinions, you'd just steamroll right along and post post post, because Ol' Smoky knows best, and because you're such expert that no thread would be complete without what you have to say? Liking to share is one thing, being courteous is another.

 

[Smoky Blue]

if that is how you want to take what I said..

but.. do not single me out.. thanks
and i never made a claim i know it all.. nor do i post on every thread..
honestly, this pick on Smoky gets a bit old..
if you think i post up a lot of recipes.. match me.. or dont..
dont want to see what i post.. don't look..
wont hurt my feelings one bit.
anyways.. on with the thread of people popping recipes up on other peoples recipe threads..
such a lovely Friday topic, with friends and all!

Stay classy!

 

[Cramptholomew]

honestly, this pick on Smoky gets a bit old..

Maybe if you're always getting picked on, it's something YOU'RE doing... That's just my unrequested opinion, though.

***giggles***

 

[Smoky Blue]

hmm.. so let me get this straight..

do not ask about bad flavors.. do not mention acetoin, diacetyl, or questions about flavor arts, and nicvapes,.
Do not post more than one recipe per____________. *let me know.. since i overwhelm everyone.
ok.. got it.. you are the man with the plan Just let me know how much i can post.. eh? thanks, honey bunches!

 

[Cramptholomew]

if that is how you want to take what I said...

 

[AmandaD]

I agree with you 100% Huck. If it was actually shy people, or previous lurkers, posting something similar and asking for opinions that would be a different matter - but this is not at all what happens. It always comes across as oneupmanship, and it's just rude.

 

[Huckleberried]

Posting this was something I wanted to do a long time ago. I didn't call anyone out, didn't mention names, because it's been done by many!

I've seen some really INCREDIBLE work in the recipes forum. VU has a recipe section like no other on the the internet. Top notch stuff. Since I've been a member here, the number of new mixers has increased by leaps and bounds. People brand new to DIY. I see them ask questions about flavors, some PM people for suggestions, etc... then they get brave enough to mix something. I know the excitement of making something you like and wanting to share it! Then a brand new mixer shares that excitement... within a few posts, someone drops their version, whether new and improved, or older and similar. I feel it does take something from the OP. It's happened to me, maybe I'm sensitive, but my heart sunk a little. Maybe my pride, or ego, who knows? And why should it matter? It's my recipe, I get to feel how I want to about it.

I have very few recipes here. Very few. It excites me to be able to share a vape with friends. I've seen so many recipes on here, then see another post a recipe and it makes me wonder, why didn't they just make a new post? Why take from the original, instead of giving something brand new? Does it make it feel less than original? I've been in that spot. Create something new, see a similar one, decide not to post because it's so close to the other. When I mentioned that to someone, they said to never scrap a recipe, something in it might work or help another mixer. I just feel it would be rude of me to counter, my recipe to theirs. See my point?

I had someone post a rather wordy rebuttal of edits and re-edits, leading to a brand new recipe on one of mine a while back. Then they closed with a thanks for the awesome recipe Huck!. Seriously?? You're welcome? was all I could say.

Maybe I feel protective of the whole thing, maybe I'm overly sensitive. I just hope a new mixer doesn't make a recipe they're super psyched about, then feel like a failure because someone decides to share a totally changed up version of what they (OP) really liked. They're not doing it wrong. They're doing it the way they wanted it.

That's it.

 

[vaperature]

Not really getting the point at all. It's an open forum. Don't take it so seriously. Nothing is being taken away from the OP if someone else shares another recipe below it. If you start setting up self-imposed restrictions like that, it not only takes the fun and spontaneity out of it, but it's the first step toward becoming an ECF-like dictatorship where people have to worry if they are breaking the "rules" when all they want to do is share something.

 

[Smoky Blue]

You are not the only one.. I have had many pm's and questions from flavor companies to flavors and percentages..
I have a small group in conversation land" because honestly, it's quieter there.. it's also where i share ideas and recipes with them..
my recipe postings have slowed down and i have removed a lot of my tobacco recipes..
i have a vendor trying to sell one of mine, without permission..

but i see nothing wrong with a new person, posting on a recipe post about the recipe an op posted..
or even going so far as to making a new juice, based off that..
they did it because of the experience they had, either making or reading the recipe..
be honored and proud you helped.. not all this bit..
others might see it different.. this i thought, would be a good place to share..

as you see the last post of mine above this one.. it hasnt been..
with out being able to do that, to ask questions, to learn.. where would we all be?
i think it's up to us all to either turn this back to when we all first started here and get along..
or start blocking people.

 

[Edd]

I can understand that Huckleberried. Here is what I see though, inspiration. You inspired someone into making something their own, I am trying to word this to be better and not worse lol. Someone loved you're recipe so very much and learned enough from it to gain confidence to mix up their own version. That's awesome.
While this surely isn't always the case sometimes It seems so to me.

 

[Huckleberried]

No, there isn't anything wrong with a New mixer posting questions about recipes, brands or percentages. Not at all! It's encouraged. What bothers me is when that New Mixer posts a new recipe, then they get slammed with someone that's been doing it a long time throws out some super complex challenging mix and says "yeah, that's the ticket!", along those lines.

These are not "rules", this is not a "dictatorship". These are my feelings in an "open forum". As far as that other place goes? This whole conversation would have already been closed by a very sharp toned minion.

 

[Smoky Blue]

hmm.. if you are talking on the recipe @ADV_search posted last night.. and then i shared mine, last night too..
consisted of 4 or 5 flavors, complex?.. dont go looking at my 31 flavored one..

I removed the recipe since there was not a comment.. early this am.. way before i got to this thread..
because i am tried of having either complaints or vendors snagging them and selling.
adv has been in my mail too.. and i am sure if adv had a issue, adv could speak up..

i did it so he could see how i did mine. no other ulterior motive.

dont say others do not do this.. i see it all the time too..
done with this topic.. will keep your advise in mind from now on and stop sharing.

 

[Huckleberried]

My post was never directed at any one person. I think I said, repeatedly, "people". And I never called out any names. If I mis-typed that somewhere, I will gladly edit from "one" to "many".


Sent from my stupid iPhone because I don't have an Android.

 

[RocketPuppy]

hmm.. if you are talking on the recipe @ADV_search posted last night.. and then i shared mine, last night too..
consisted of 4 or 5 flavors, complex?.. dont go looking at my 31 flavored one..

I removed the recipe since there was not a comment.. early this am.. way before i got to this thread..
because i am tried of having either complaints or vendors snagging them and selling.
adv has been in my mail too.. and i am sure if adv had a issue, adv could speak up..

i did it so he could see how i did mine. no other ulterior motive.

dont say others do not do this.. i see it all the time too..
done with this topic.. will keep your advise in mind from now on and stop sharing.

From what Huck's said, it doesn't sound like she's directing her comments to you in particular. She also said she's been wanting to say this for quite awhile, so I imagine it's not in reference to a recipe you posted or took down yesterday.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Posting this was something I wanted to do a long time ago. I didn't call anyone out, didn't mention names, because it's been done by many!

I've seen some really INCREDIBLE work in the recipes forum. VU has a recipe section like no other on the the internet. Top notch stuff. Since I've been a member here, the number of new mixers has increased by leaps and bounds. People brand new to DIY. I see them ask questions about flavors, some PM people for suggestions, etc... then they get brave enough to mix something. I know the excitement of making something you like and wanting to share it! Then a brand new mixer shares that excitement... within a few posts, someone drops their version, whether new and improved, or older and similar. I feel it does take something from the OP. It's happened to me, maybe I'm sensitive, but my heart sunk a little. Maybe my pride, or ego, who knows? And why should it matter? It's my recipe, I get to feel how I want to about it.

I have very few recipes here. Very few. It excites me to be able to share a vape with friends. I've seen so many recipes on here, then see another post a recipe and it makes me wonder, why didn't they just make a new post? Why take from the original, instead of giving something brand new? Does it make it feel less than original? I've been in that spot. Create something new, see a similar one, decide not to post because it's so close to the other. When I mentioned that to someone, they said to never scrap a recipe, something in it might work or help another mixer. I just feel it would be rude of me to counter, my recipe to theirs. See my point?

I had someone post a rather wordy rebuttal of edits and re-edits, leading to a brand new recipe on one of mine a while back. Then they closed with a thanks for the awesome recipe Huck!. Seriously?? You're welcome? was all I could say.

Maybe I feel protective of the whole thing, maybe I'm overly sensitive. I just hope a new mixer doesn't make a recipe they're super psyched about, then feel like a failure because someone decides to share a totally changed up version of what they (OP) really liked. They're not doing it wrong. They're doing it the way they wanted it.

That's it.

I don't see this as being too sensitive. I appreciate your recipes, and I think your point and message are well said. Thank you.

 

[Smoky Blue]

From what Huck's said, it doesn't sound like she's directing her comments to you in particular. She also said she's been wanting to say this for quite awhile, so I imagine it's not in reference to a recipe you posted or took down yesterday.

right.. so.. here comes another question!

if that was the case.. and i believe you when you say that, RP.. why not say that, when i saw and posted my first post, the very first time?
why let this go on all day? and what the heck do our new friends and want to learn mixers feel seeing this?
it is not very welcoming to see this kind of stuff, even from a newbie stand point.

i am a big girl, and very able to defend myself and my motives.. however.. it's sad that this was even brought up..
we are all here to either learn or help.. not cause a big ruckus over how many flavors someone posted.. or where it was posted..
i think we all know, there has been a few heated discussions.. some, not even involving me
but at the same time.. if you think back to when this site was made.. we all did at one point get along and post nice.
we were all friends.. imagine that.

still.. I will not be posting as much, the holidays are here.. and after that, who knows..

 

[Huckleberried]

What? The topic I chose to post about had less to do with how many flavors someone posted. It has everything to do with A NEW PERSON CREATING A NEW RECIPE THAT THEY ENJOY. THEN... someone else, anyone else coming along and posting a different recipe and possibly making the original poster feel a bit deflated. My post isn't about experienced people posting recipes and new people asking questions. NOT about that.

This thread only continued to be replied to is why it's gone on all day. I only replied to clarify what my original thought was, because it kept getting twisted into something it was not about.

 

[Ld3441]

Huck.... I understand what you are saying and agree with you.
I think some people are trying to be "helpful" when it has not been asked for.
Along with that you have posters that mean things one way and it is taken differently by others.

I for one am very tired of all the negative people/posts/bad vibes from a lot of posts.
I come here for fun and it has become something entirely different.
There is enough BS to deal with in the real world to put up with it here too. For me at least.
Not trying to derail your thread but just putting in my 2 cents here.

 

[Huckleberried]

Not at all, Ld, I appreciate your input. You're always honest in your thoughts and I love that about you. So, thank you

 

[Ld3441]

Not at all, Ld, I appreciate your input. You're always honest in your thoughts and I love that about you. So, thank you

I could have written the OP many times in the past just as you have now but I did not voice my opinion.
I also have not posted recipes and had this happen to me but the same thoughts have crossed my mind many times.
It is not one person but many and has gone on since the beginning of time.
There is my honesty.... not that it was asked for.

 

[Huckleberried]

I could have written the OP many times in the past just as you have now but I did not voice my opinion.
I also have not posted recipes and had this happen to me but the same thoughts have crossed my mind many times.
It is not one person but many and has gone on since the beginning of time.
There is my honesty.... not that it was asked for.

Lol, Yep, not one, but many.

 

[RocketPuppy]

right.. so.. here comes another question!

if that was the case.. and i believe you when you say that, RP.. why not say that, when i saw and posted my first post, the very first time? .

Why not say what? That her post wasn't directed at you specifically?

I'm not calling out anyone in particular here. I see it everywhere. If someone asks, then sure, help away. But, why not just post up your own recipe? I think it's a valid question and a valid thought.

This is from her first post, so I'm not sure whatcha mean by letting this go all day. Plus, I imagine like most people, she probably works and can't post. Besides a minute here or there, I can't use my phone while working, nor do I actually want to.

In regards to the rest of your post. Maybe I'm daft, but I don't really understand it beyond the thing about friendship. When VU started till now, I've never seen the people here as anything more than their avatars. HIC is big caramel-y clouds and Cramps is some oddball with a fake mustache. I come here for information and insight into diy. While I think there are some phenomenal personalities here, having a common interest does not equate friendship to me. Friendship to me is having a beer together or being able to hug someone.

 

[jamieg71]

It's a forum folks....
If you don't want some one else to share a similar recipe, on a public forum, in the same thread. Because it would be so much better to start a whole other thread.. On the exact same subject matter. Yeah makes sense. I mean if your self worth is derived from a recipe that you have every right to feel proud of, and are generous enough to share, but are offended when someone enjoys the same thing as you and is proud and wanted to share.
Maybe add a bit in the OP to the effect- "I'm sharing 'xxx' recipe, please enjoy but keep your own ideas and findings to yourself"

Ya know like a disclaimer.

 

[Time]

I guess I'll be the only one to say I like it when multiple recipes are posted. I thought it was common for a reason.

I don't post on other forums and do read reddit about every day. Most shared recipes have more simular recipes shared in the thread. I thought it was because everyone was both trying to be helpful and also proud that they got simular results. I've actually never seen anyone post or imply "mine is better". They are, by and large, a simple group pat on the back, "I have one too".

I like the multiple recipes because I might not have the same flavors as the OP used and a version of the same juice with different flavors can be helpful.

And if you think this trend is reserved for DIY juice recipes, look up some cooking recipes online. Every one I've ever looked up that has a comment section has a multitude of simular recipes added in the comment section. I always read these comments and suggestions for the same reason I like them in juice recipe threads. There may be, and usually is, options for my tastes and the ingredients I have at home.

The one thing I do agree with in this thread is what @Ld3441 had to say in post #24. The pissing match going on is becoming ridiculous. Actually, scratch that. The pissing match is ridiculous.

 

[Huckleberried]

I appreciate your feedback, Time. I do. I know people think I'm trying to stir up shit, but I'm not. I posted my thoughts. How boring would it be if we all agreed to agree on everything? We're not a cult. We have different thoughts on everything from DIY, to coils, to what equipment we prefer. I haven't told anyone they have to feel how I feel.

 

[wllmc]

Once, I posted a similar recipe on one of @wllmc recipe threads, and decided later that if my recipe was good enough to share, I should've just made my own thread. I didn't end up posting my recipe, because it wasn't really better than what was already posted, just different, and I didn't want to steal the glory of a posted recipe.

I dont post a lot of my recipes sometimes for the same reasons. @HeadInClouds and I have similar taste and likes. who else thought of putting irish cream and cola together lol. its funny sometimes we will be working on similar things unknowingly. if I see HIC post something similar I will usually not post my variation unless I know its solid gold. not because I think I am an inferior mixer but do we really need 25 versions of apple pie posted ? that doesnt mean I think people should not post their own recipe in the recipe section but if my recipe is so close to HIC's then why waste the space. I like to be original and different. if everyone is mixing strawberry and trying to clone mothers milk Im going to work on peanut butter sandwiches. there is nothing wrong with talking about variations. sometimes people dont have the flavor being used and want to try and get close but honestly I dont think posting a full different recipe is good etiquette.

@Cramptholomew that reminds me of your coconut cake was so good I came up with a dozen variation I wanted to post but didnt . I did offer some advice on your post, about using pre steeped custard. I hope that was ok . I know personally I take pride in my recipes. I feel accomplished when I make something good. cramp tagged me so here is my 2 cents. this is only my opinion and not intended to offend anyone. I know a lot of the bigger mixer out there kinda avoid the recipe section to not replicate someone else's work. I myself have been avoiding the recipes for that reason and not to give out free recipes for vendors to profit off of lol. I think all of us collectively have made a lot of people a lot of money. Id rather just give advice and opinions.

 

[HeadInClouds]

@wllmc I agree with almost everything you wrote there; I take exception to this part:

but do we really need 25 versions of apple pie posted ?

Yes!

 

[wllmc]

I can understand that Huckleberried. Here is what I see though, inspiration. You inspired someone into making something their own, I am trying to word this to be better and not worse lol. Someone loved you're recipe so very much and learned enough from it to gain confidence to mix up their own version. That's awesome.
While this surely isn't always the case sometimes It seems so to me.

I understand what you are saying edd. one thing I have done and people have done for me is tag the originator in a new thread. I always give due credit if credit is due for an idea. I have been tagged also when someone feels like they should give me credit for and idea or for being similar. its a win win if you post a new thread I think. your recipe gets out in a new thread and you can get feed back on that recipe. Im not right or wrong and I am friends with you edd so please dont think im arguing.

 

[wllmc]

@wllmc I agree with almost everything you wrote there; I take exception to this part:



Yes!

lmao you're right . I knew better to use apple pie as an example lol cant have enough of those

 

[RocketPuppy]

I want pie.

 

[Edd]

Makes sense to me man, To be completely honest I was just trying to cheer Huck up lol

 

[Huckleberried]

Makes sense to me man, To be completely honest I was just trying to cheer Huck up lol

Aww. What a nice thing to say, Edd. Thank you. Yeah, yesterday was very rough. This morning was, too. I've had a very nice relaxing "since then", though. One of those days off where everything was comfortable after the hard part.

 

[wllmc]

Makes sense to me man, To be completely honest I was just trying to cheer Huck up lol

lol ok . without trying to derail the topic thread I just feel like every statement I make needs a disclosure these days lol. I always try to offer my most friendly and best advice we dont always have to agree with everyone either thats what makes us individual. ok back on topic. you know someone was going to throw a recipe in here lol. here is a throw back. one of my very first recipes ever.

 

[Huckleberried]

My first ever DIY was a coffee vape. Dude, I totally EFFED it up, too. I mis-measured caramel cappacino and used a full 1ml instead of 0.1ml

 

[Budds]

Now add some :

TFA Toasted Almond 1%
TFA Marshmallow 1%

 

[HeadInClouds]

lol ok . without trying to derail the topic thread I just feel like every statement I make needs a disclosure these days lol. I always try to offer my most friendly and best advice we dont always have to agree with everyone either thats what makes us individual. ok back on topic. you know someone was going to throw a recipe in here lol. here is a throw back. one of my very first recipes ever.

View attachment 10832

I have 7 variations better than that. Can I post them here?
(I'm kidding, you know)

 

[Huckleberried]

Brutal crowd. Brutal, I tell ya.

 

[Time]

I appreciate your feedback, Time. I do. I know people think I'm trying to stir up shit, but I'm not. I posted my thoughts. How boring would it be if we all agreed to agree on everything? We're not a cult. We have different thoughts on everything from DIY, to coils, to what equipment we prefer. I haven't told anyone they have to feel how I feel.

Reading your posts, I know you to be a sweet person. Easy going. I know your intent was not to stir anything up.

Some of us are getting caught up in something that doesn't have much to do with us. Nerves are frayed and touchy. Hell, I got an eyeful(earful) for saying oxidized nic is generally considered undesirable the other day. I still can't find any fault with the statement.

Anyway, it wasn't your post. It's the mood on the forum lately.

 

[wllmc]

My first ever DIY was a coffee vape. Dude, I totally EFFED it up, too. I mis-measured caramel cappacino and used a full 1ml instead of 0.1ml

my very very first vape was tfa coffee at like 10 % or something. worst vape ever lol.

 

[Huckleberried]

Anyway, it wasn't your post. It's the mood on the forum lately.

It's in the air... tis the season, huh? Yeah, it's brutal in the real world right now, too. I hate what has happened to the holidays since I became an adult. I, for one, know for a fact that I've been ultra cranky lately. Not at my best, nor per usual for me. Thanks for what you said, too.

 

[glassgrl]

I appreciate your feedback, Time. I do. I know people think I'm trying to stir up shit, but I'm not. I posted my thoughts. How boring would it be if we all agreed to agree on everything? We're not a cult. We have different thoughts on everything from DIY, to coils, to what equipment we prefer. I haven't told anyone they have to feel how I feel.

Seriously? You're one of the nicest people, not a shit stirrer. I don't even remember my first recipe, only that it reminded me of the smell of the New Jersey Turnpike around exit 13 where the airport and petrochemical refineries are. lol

 

[Huckleberried]

Seriously? You're one of the nicest people, not a shit stirrer. I don't even remember my first recipe, only that it reminded me of the smell of the New Jersey Turnpike around exit 13 where the airport and petrochemical refineries are. lol

Oh, I see you also used Caramel Cappuccino! (thanks, gg)

 

[RocketPuppy]

Seriously? You're one of the nicest people, not a shit stirrer. I don't even remember my first recipe, only that it reminded me of the smell of the New Jersey Turnpike around exit 13 where the airport and petrochemical refineries are. lol

nomnoms!!!

 

[PincheWero]

Seriously? You're one of the nicest people, not a shit stirrer. I don't even remember my first recipe, only that it reminded me of the smell of the New Jersey Turnpike around exit 13 where the airport and petrochemical refineries are. lol

oh that brings back ugly memories being stuck in traffic on NJT, I used to drive a truck and that is the most gawd awful smell. Only place worse is maybe Texas City, TX same thing petrochemical plants