Building coils for mechs

[blakemorder]

Okay I just got my first unregulated MOSFET box with some Samsung 25r5's.I tossed on my usual build ( dual fused 26g claptons) at .19 ohms. It doesn't seem to hit nearly as hard as my 80w smok m80 did. Should I try building even lower to get more heat? Or use thinner gauge wire in say a triple fused clapton?

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[A. Nuss Braun]

I can ONLY tell you what 'works', on a kang. sub. onna Tantra mod... 5 wraps of 24 g.kanthal. It's just a little warm, with a fresh cell.

 

[manthe]

Something must be wrong somewhere then. At .19ohms, an unregulated device at 4.2 volts will be putting out close to 93 watts - 13 watts more than your m80 is even capable of. What kind of box is it? Is the mosfet attenuating power perhaps?

 

[BigNasty]

If you can go to a vape shop and borrow in inline voltage tester.
You could be sagging due to gauge of the wires or a wonky connection on the 510.

Outside of that something is wonky.

 

[robot zombie]

Most of the builds I do for my mechs don't feel like they hit quite as hard as the do running at the same power level they calculate out to on a reggie box. I think it's just the nature of the devices. There are always going to be things like voltage drop and sag holding you back a bit.

That being said, most builds below .3 should still hit pretty hard. I think there's also something to be said about the power curve of a mech. The drop-off is like natural temp control. The longer you hold the button, the more the power trails off, making it easier to take really long, deep drags without having your coils overheat or your wicking fall behind. It's a different kind of vape. Mechs favor different build configurations and vaping styles than regulated devices.

That can be a major obstacle when you try to go from a regulated device to a mech. The paradigm shift is bigger than it seems. You have to build with a new set of strengths and weaknesses in mind. A lot of it is really trial-and-error. Take some time to tinker and get a feel for what works for you. It's probably going to differ quite a lot from what you're used to enjoying on a regulated mod.

If you're used to building for regulated devices, your instinct is probably going to be to go for larger coils. With mechs, even when sub-ohming wayy down there, you're going to want to keep the overall coil size smaller than you would normally think to. You have to strike a fine balance between the amount of power a coil can pull and how much power it actually takes to heat up the coil. People always say to watch your heat flux on regulated builds, right? Well on mechs, you've got to pay more attention to the heat capacity.

Crazy claptons just are not going to perform well on a mech. That's too much metal for your power. Claptons have a lot of metal in them that barely pulls any power of its own and a mech doesn't have the extra power to give, so it doesn't work out so well. The only clapton I've ever got to really hit on a mech was a dual 26/32. I did 3 wraps @ 2.5mm.

You would be surprised at what little standard coils can do on a mech. Try some standard dual coils in the .15-.25 range. 22g works well at the lower end of that, while 24g has a sweet spot at around .2. You could also try some dual-parallel 26g or dual-triple-parallel 28g. Nichrome is worth a shot, too. Helps overcome the ramp-up time a bit.

 

[blakemorder]

Something must be wrong somewhere then. At .19ohms, an unregulated device at 4.2 volts will be putting out close to 93 watts - 13 watts more than your m80 is even capable of. What kind of box is it? Is the mosfet attenuating power perhaps?

The box is built by a local guy who is dm of a bunch of shops in the area, he lists all the parts used including the brand of mosfet and 510 so I'm not sure, I am going down there this week to check voltage drop. Don't get me wrong, it chucks clouds, it just doesn't have the hit I'm used too, especially because even considering some voltage drop I should be well over 70 watts.

Most of the builds I do for my mechs don't feel like they hit quite as hard as the do running at the same power level they calculate out to on a reggie box. I think it's just the nature of the devices. There are always going to be things like voltage drop and sag holding you back a bit.

That being said, most builds below .3 should still hit pretty hard. I think there's also something to be said about the power curve of a mech. The drop-off is like natural temp control. The longer you hold the button, the more the power trails off, making it easier to take really long, deep drags without having your coils overheat or your wicking fall behind. It's a different kind of vape. Mechs favor different build configurations and vaping styles than regulated devices.

That can be a major obstacle when you try to go from a regulated device to a mech. The paradigm shift is bigger than it seems. You have to build with a new set of strengths and weaknesses in mind. A lot of it is really trial-and-error. Take some time to tinker and get a feel for what works for you. It's probably going to differ quite a lot from what you're used to enjoying on a regulated mod.

If you're used to building for regulated devices, your instinct is probably going to be to go for larger coils. With mechs, even when sub-ohming wayy down there, you're going to want to keep the overall coil size smaller than you would normally think to. You have to strike a fine balance between the amount of power a coil can pull and how much power it actually takes to heat up the coil. People always say to watch your heat flux on regulated builds, right? Well on mechs, you've got to pay more attention to the heat capacity.

Crazy claptons just are not going to perform well on a mech. That's too much metal for your power. Claptons have a lot of metal in them that barely pulls any power of its own and a mech doesn't have the extra power to give, so it doesn't work out so well. The only clapton I've ever got to really hit on a mech was a dual 26/32. I did 3 wraps @ 2.5mm.

You would be surprised at what little standard coils can do on a mech. Try some standard dual coils in the .15-.25 range. 22g works well at the lower end of that, while 24g has a sweet spot at around .2. You could also try some dual-parallel 26g or dual-triple-parallel 28g. Nichrome is worth a shot, too. Helps overcome the ramp-up time a bit.

Thanks for some clarification, Ill have to give some regular builds a try and do some thinking on how to make a Clapton that hits well for me. I did try a triple core 28g fused clapton at .19ohm and it hits much better than the 26 gauge monster I've been using. If I'm right smaller wires parallel have less heat capacity so they should ramp up faster and hit harder? Gonna play with some nichrome too if you think it'll ramp easier, Im just a little iffy about nickel core wire. I'm just looking for a little advice to get me in the right direction and maybe save me a couple feet of wire lol.

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[robot zombie]

If I'm right smaller wires parallel have less heat capacity so they should ramp up faster and hit harder?

Yep, you got it. You can do that. As I said before, you can run dual parallel 26g or dual triple parallel 28g for builds that have decent surface area and quick ramp-up. The DTP 28g is feistier. 5 or 6 wrap, 2.5mm dual triple parallel 28 is really warm and full (I believe Zamazam aptly described parallels as being "chewy.") You could also try smaller coils with thicker wire. You could do like 6 wraps of 24g @ 2.5mm or even 2mm. You could also try something like a 6-wrap, 3mm dual 22g. Builds like that still have plenty of surface area, but they're small enough that they still heat up quickly at their natural range.

Twisted wire will get you more kick easily, as well. Dual twisted 26g is pretty gnarly.

Tiny, yet fairly-high surface-area coils that pull lots of power will heat up quicker and keep up better. Remember, your batteries inherently sag under load (increasingly more so with really low sub-ohm coils,) and after that, there's drop from the components and connection points in your setup. Not only that, but your voltage continues to sag the longer you hold the button.

That in itself drastically changes the performance. Reggie boxes hit harder because they are consistent. When you run one at 3.9v, it always kicks out exactly that, while a mech will begin to drop below that almost instantly. For instance, if you take a build that already hits hard on a mech, you might find yourself running it to as low as 3.6v on a reggie box and still having it hit harder. It's going to be heating up that much faster just because the power coming to it has no drop-off.

It all can add up to more power loss than you would expect from even the most ideal setup. Some hit harder than others, but they're all subject to the same limitations.

They're simply not as power-efficient and you have to build around that. No quads... ...no elaborate builds. Simple, smaller-id, power-hungry builds are your ticket. In some atties, it's not always such a bad idea to dial-back your airflow a bit, either.

Gonna play with some nichrome too if you think it'll ramp easier, Im just a little iffy about nickel core wire.

It will heat up faster just because it pulls more power for your surface area. While it isn't absolutely necessary for hard-hitting mech builds, nichrome makes it easier to get the heat there for large coils.

I'm just looking for a little advice to get me in the right direction and maybe save me a couple feet of wire lol.

Haha, that's inevitable though.

 

[blakemorder]

After I get tired of this build I'll chuck in some 24g and see how I like it, I stopped down at the shop today and asked some stuff too, I was told to try smaller wrap wire or building lower. He had a 22g build in that ramped instantly which was pretty nice

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[joeyboy]

I have been using 3 ID coils on my mech. It is okay. I build a little high for mech but know about using a smaller ID is better is interesting. I will do a 2.4 next time. I only do singles.

Thanks