Citric acid and the effects on berry/strawberry flavors

[PMAZ7]

first post for me here! Although I feel like I know many of your personalities already from researching this forum!

Anyhow, just like the title reads... I'm working on a dairy heavy strawberry mix and I just can't seem to brighten it up and make it more "full" and balanced. I've only been mixing for about 2 months and I'm unfamiliar with most additives and "magic" potions that can be added to help build flavors.

Any help would be appreciated and thanks to everyone for maintaining such a positive and welcoming forum.

 

[Huckleberried]

What brand flavors are you using? That's gonna be the best way to help. All strawberry flavors have a little difference in them. Usually adding a brighter flavor can help, a cream will help boost fullness, or marshmallow. Or meringue, lol. Endless possibilities.

 

[PMAZ7]

Huckleberry! Great question and I apologize for not adding the info.

I'm using TFA strawberry (ripe) for this particular mix. I'm also thinking about increasing the amount although I'm already at 10% with an overall flavor mix at 23%

 

[Huckleberried]

Huckleberry! Great question and I apologize for not adding the info.

I'm using TFA strawberry (ripe) for this particular mix. I'm also thinking about increasing the amount although I'm already at 10% with an overall flavor mix at 23%

PMAZ7! LOL
Either a sweet lemon flavor, or a dark berry in a small dose, might "berry up" your flavor, sweet lemon might bright, berry might deepen. If you don't want to increase the total percentage, you could split it into two bottles, and go from there. What creamy/dairy flavor did you use?

 

[RocketPuppy]

23% seems pretty high. What creams are you using and at what percentage? I like TFA ripe strawberry at 8%. I'm wondering if you might be using too much flavor.

 

[AmandaD]

I think sometimes that very high percentages of flavorings and the wrong proportions totally mask flavors. Rather than looking at an additive I'd mess with the proportions and start much, much lower! I think I was reading last week that someone said a touch of raspberry brightens up strawberry - anyone ese?

 

[HeadInClouds]

FA Custard does great things to strawberry flavors. It's a lemony-vanilla creamy flavor that is ideal with fruits.
FA Catalan Cream is similar, but with a caramel background and a wee hint of spice (some people taste it, some don't).

 

[miltiades]

Hello.

my proposal for adding body is Bavarian Cream TPA. This is the most neutral IMO cream selection that gives a full body to acid flavors and keeps the taste.

 

[PMAZ7]

Whoa!! Thank you, everyone for your info. This is the recipe I've been working with. It's what I've found to be as close to the CW UM (milk) that I could find.

• 10% TFA Strawberry Ripe •
• 5% TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) •
• 3% TFA Bav Cream •
• 3% TFA Sweet Cream •
• 2% TFA Vanilla Custard •

I totally understand that I simply could just have too much of everything, just trying to figure out what could make it fuller and a bit more strawberry.

 

[Huckleberried]

Have you steeped this? I'm a bit surprised it doesn't have a fullness to it. I would think it'd have quite a full mouth feel.

 

[PMAZ7]

Aged, yes. Steeped, not too long. It almost completely lacks the strawberry. Just a hint of it.

 

[Huckleberried]

I'm seriously tempted to say cut it in half and see what you think. Sometimes the results are very surprising. How long have you been vaping ONLY?

 

[PMAZ7]

Been vaping since September. Haven't touched tobacco since I picked up a mod.

 

[RMarcusY]

I've played around with those TFA flavors and I agree about cutting it in half. I liked the mix of all five flavors at 2% of each for a total of 10%.

 

[PMAZ7]

Really? Just an even 2% of all flavors?

 

[Huckleberried]

Been vaping since September. Haven't touched tobacco since I picked up a mod.

Nice, congrats! I asked, because your taste buds will continue to change the further and further away you get from that last cigarette. I'm about 19 months in and am still tasting things I wasn't able to notice before. I've been able to reduce my % in that time frame, also. It's all good from here!

 

[RMarcusY]

Really? Just an even 2% of all flavors?

Yes really. I should add that I have not smoked in over a year, and no nicotine since last August and I mix my juice at 50/50 and use a Nautilus mini.

 

[PMAZ7]

Yes really. I should add that I have not smoked in over a year, and no nicotine since last August and I mix my juice at 50/50 and use a Nautilus mini.

I'm sure I'm coming off as a complete noob but wouldn't the mix of 50/50 also increase the flavor in your mix? I'm mixing at a max VG within the PG limitations of the nic + flavor.

 

[RMarcusY]

Yes PG carries flavor better than VG,
We are all always leaning.

 

[Huckleberried]

Even at max VG, I'd reduce it.
A. It's the only way to know.
B. You don't want to have to go even higher if you want the max VG to stay max.
C. There are more concentrated flavor options. I think the mix is fine, really. It sounds really good, honestly. If I had that strawberry, I'd try it myself.

What about a small sample to see? I don't think adding more flavor is the answer. Over-flavoring will kill it completely. Warm the mix in a cup of hot tap water to thin the VG a bit, shake it really well, then go.

 

[RocketPuppy]

I was going to suggest dropping those percentages waaaayyy down, but if you're saying the recipe is close to what you're looking for...then ignore me.

 

[PMAZ7]

Understand your reasonings for reducing the mix, they totally make sense.

I don't want to add more flavor necessarily, just curious if there was an additive or different % to mix too to get more strawberry out of the mix (the current mix is really good! Just wish/want for more clear strawberry)

I've already warmed it just as you suggested about a week ago. It's only about 12 days old.

 

[PMAZ7]

I was going to suggest dropping those percentages waaaayyy down, but if you're saying the recipe is close to what you're looking for...then ignore me.

NOOOO! I'm totally open to suggestions!!

 

[Huckleberried]

OK, how bout cutting the others in half for the strawberry? I'll leave your strawberry alone 10% isn't unheard of with TFA, but I think 6-8 would work, too.

Some people like additives, but I've never needed to use any. I've heard and agree with this, "If you need additives to improve a recipe, maybe you should consider changing brands". That's not law, just an opinion I agree with, lol.

 

[PMAZ7]

Ok, that's what I'm going to try. I'll knock the strawberry to 8% and 1/2 the rest and report back. I appreciate all of everyone's help and please feel free to add any additional suggestions.

 

[Huckleberried]

I sincerely hope that it works out for you after we all encouraged it, lol. Personally, I think reducing the creams, at least, will help.

 

[lirruping]

What brand flavors are you using? That's gonna be the best way to help. All strawberry flavors have a little difference in them. Usually adding a brighter flavor can help, a cream will help boost fullness, or marshmallow. Or meringue, lol. Endless possibilities.

I luurve FA strawberry + TFA strawberry with FA Meringue and a little teensy bit of lemon or cranberry. Tastes like candy--in a good way. (I'm a flavor hound and I use 3% of each of the strawbs, 1% Meringue, and probably .25-.5% lemon or cran. It's not weak.)

 

[Huckleberried]

That cranberry idea is awesome! Thanks, @lirruping. I see you've taken a liking to the stranger, lol. Cool pic.

 

[lirruping]

That cranberry idea is awesome! Thanks, @lirruping. I see you've taken a liking to the stranger, lol. Cool pic.

Thanks, Huck.
Yes, I finally decided he just is too interesting to pass on. Maybe he will see it, contact me and become my BFF

 

[Huckleberried]

Ok, that's what I'm going to try. I'll knock the strawberry to 8% and 1/2 the rest and report back. I appreciate all of everyone's help and please feel free to add any additional suggestions.

Any news for us yet? Fingers crossed!


Typos brought to you by: iPhone.

 

[Sirkris]

@PMAZ7 how did it turn out?

 

[PMAZ7]

Thanks for reminding me!

It still tastes "diaper-y"... (sorry, don't really know a better way to explain it)

I mixed each flavor individually at the proper % and they were fine. I've made 3 batches and all 3 same diaper-y result.

 

[lirruping]

Whoa!! Thank you, everyone for your info. This is the recipe I've been working with. It's what I've found to be as close to the CW UM (milk) that I could find.

• 10% TFA Strawberry Ripe •
• 5% TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) •
• 3% TFA Bav Cream •
• 3% TFA Sweet Cream •
• 2% TFA Vanilla Custard •

I totally understand that I simply could just have too much of everything, just trying to figure out what could make it fuller and a bit more strawberry.

lol, "diaper-y"! That is really evocative, in a terrible way. I don't know if we have the same sense of "diaper", you and i, but would tend to associate that with too much creaminess in the mix. I'm new to this too, but my experience has been that not just too much overall flavoring (as others noted already) but also too high a relative percentage of cream-types and/or pastry type flavors will mask or dull or like...absorb fruity flavors. They even seem to compete with one another at times in a mix.

I'm always surprised at how little of those creams and vanillas I need to get a satisfying creaminess or full mouth-feel kind of sensation. Too much of them--and especially, I'm now noticing, too much of the ones that have diacetyl/acetyl propionyl (which I think your bottom three do)--start to get kind of "gross" to me at higher percentages. Not sure why this is.

So the last thing you did was knock the strawberry back to 8% and cut the four creamy ones in half, right? And that still tastes diapery. I'm not exactly sure what you're going for, but if the cheesecakey element is important for your result, I think I would try eliminating at least one of those bottom three flavors and adding a small bit of lemon or cranberry or a tart raspberry (like FA raspberry). In fact, I would eliminate two and add both lemon and raspberry. I don't have all those flavors, so i can't try it, but maybe:

8% Strawberry Ripe
2.5% tfa Cheesecake Graham
1.5% of either TFA Vanilla Custard, TFA, Sweet Cream or TFA Bav Cream
.75 - 3% each of lemon and raspberry (depending on how concentrated the brand you use is--like, for FA it would be low, but higher for a somewhat equivalent effect with TFA)

You'll still have a good lot of flavoring in there, I think, and I expect it will still seem very creamy. I'm guessing you can do this in a way where you won't really taste either the lemon or the raspberry, but they will lighten things up. And maybe the diminished creams will reduce the diaper effect.

We are all always leaning.

How true! I'm leaning so much lately I'm practically staggering around.

 

[PMAZ7]

lol, "diaper-y"! That is really evocative, in a terrible way. I don't know if we have the same sense of "diaper", you and i, but would tend to associate that with too much creaminess in the mix. I'm new to this too, but my experience has been that not just too much overall flavoring (as others noted already) but also too high a relative percentage of cream-types and/or pastry type flavors will mask or dull or like...absorb fruity flavors. They even seem to compete with one another at times in a mix.

I'm always surprised at how little of those creams and vanillas I need to get a satisfying creaminess or full mouth-feel kind of sensation. Too much of them--and especially, I'm now noticing, too much of the ones that have diacetyl/acetyl propionyl (which I think your bottom three do)--start to get kind of "gross" to me at higher percentages. Not sure why this is.

So the last thing you did was knock the strawberry back to 8% and cut the four creamy ones in half, right? And that still tastes diapery. I'm not exactly sure what you're going for, but if the cheesecakey element is important for your result, I think I would try eliminating at least one of those bottom three flavors and adding a small bit of lemon or cranberry or a tart raspberry (like FA raspberry). In fact, I would eliminate two and add both lemon and raspberry. I don't have all those flavors, so i can't try it, but maybe:

8% Strawberry Ripe
2.5% tfa Cheesecake Graham
1.5% of either TFA Vanilla Custard, TFA, Sweet Cream or TFA Bav Cream
.75 - 3% each of lemon and raspberry (depending on how concentrated the brand you use is--like, for FA it would be low, but higher for a somewhat equivalent effect with TFA)

You'll still have a good lot of flavoring in there, I think, and I expect it will still seem very creamy. I'm guessing you can do this in a way where you won't really taste either the lemon or the raspberry, but they will lighten things up. And maybe the diminished creams will reduce the diaper effect.



How true! I'm leaning so much lately I'm practically staggering around.

Fantastic and thorough input! Thanks for taking the time to really dig deep into the issue with your knowledge (whether new or not!). I don't currently have a huge arsenal of flavors but I will attempt to modify it.

I'm going for a strawberry based dairy/milky/cream flavor.

 

[Hartoled]

About 1/3 drop per ml of TFA Sour, (malic acid) perks up my strawberries and cream. It brings out the fruit and the cream flavors.

 

[2ndInCommand]

Try something besides just the straw ripe. Try adding in some caps sweet straw or some strawberries and cream. When I have a prominent flavor, I like.to.split.up the % to get he correct effect. Like mix three different.strawberry together, get that right, then add that to your custard mix.

 

[brewersvapes]

Whoa!! Thank you, everyone for your info. This is the recipe I've been working with. It's what I've found to be as close to the CW UM (milk) that I could find.

• 10% TFA Strawberry Ripe •
• 5% TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust) •
• 3% TFA Bav Cream •
• 3% TFA Sweet Cream •
• 2% TFA Vanilla Custard •

I totally understand that I simply could just have too much of everything, just trying to figure out what could make it fuller and a bit more strawberry.

this almost identical to my recipe. It am awesome Vape but I do find that cutting it in half our even third works great.

 

[Thunderball]

Try something besides just the straw ripe. Try adding in some caps sweet straw or some strawberries and cream. When I have a prominent flavor, I like.to.split.up the % to get he correct effect. Like mix three different.strawberry together, get that right, then add that to your custard mix.

Your reading my mind. Caps Sweet Strawberry is just so excellent. TFA Strawberry ripe tastes likr Pez candy to me. The Caps strawberries and cream is good as well.
Mixing some Strawberry Ripe, Caps Sweet Strawberry and even a bit of FA Strawberry could make you one nice flavor. The additions of small amounts of rasberry or something similar could help as well ( as alredy suggested above).

My favorite Strawberries and Cream start out with Caps Sweet Strawberry.

Good luck.

 

[Thunderball]

I also think all those creams at those percentages may be killing your Strawberry. ( again, already suggested)

 

[purevapor1]

I haven't used citric acid yet but i do incorporate malic acid --- ethyl maltol powder and vanillin powder i mix them together for a sweet vanilla flavor to some of my juices