Diketone free mixing, thoughts?

[Peter Shukin]

As I come closer to launch of my eliquid business, I've become very concerned about a safe product. I have avoided diketone containing flavors for quite some time now. Now, we have the new Capella V2 and TPA DX lines using butyric acid. I now have flavors such as Bavarian Cream and Banana Cream that I would of never touched before, and in fact haven't in over a year since I started to mix. They taste wonderful when used in moderation in tobacco mixes, I've gotten compliments from testers. I feel I'm going to harm reduction using these over the originals that had possibly several irritants. Butyric acid probably isn't perfectly safe either, but it's got to be better than diacetyl? Oh, and thank diy-ejuice.com for having all these in stock! Comments?

 

[soulshine]

Have you had your juices lab tested?

 

[krashkrieg]

I assume that most of what you mix with is made by Flavor Art since they are, I believe, the only company that freely posts lab reports on all flavors.
Others will only state they do not use 'baddies' but don't show actual lab results.

 

[dre]

I honestly don't care if it has trace amounts that's what makes it taste good. Cigarettes had way more then any juice.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[HeadInClouds]

As I come closer to launch of my eliquid business, ... we have the new Capella V2 and TPA DX lines using butyric acid. ... Butyric acid probably isn't perfectly safe either, but it's got to be better than diacetyl?

I wouldn't be surprised if dilute butyric acid, already known as an irritant, comes into the radar soon. If you're mixing with it and plan to sell it as diketone-free, you should do some research. To start:
http://www.nudenicotine.com/gcms-critical-info-butyric-acid-modulates-diketone-toxicity/ , which references this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18940962 . If it's just for your own enjoyment, vape on...but if you're selling it, be careful of your claims.

 

[Giraut]

I had to look up "diketone". I thought you were talking about a 70's lesbian pop band for a moment

 

[wllmc]

If it were me Id still add a warning to all of those, I think transparency is everything. Even if its questionable or what I personally feel to believe safe levels it doesnt matter I slap a warning on it, its the consumers right to know and choose especially on a topic like this where we really just dont know .

 

[HeadInClouds]

If it were me Id still add a warning to all of those, I think transparency is everything. Even if its questionable or what I personally feel to believe safe levels it doesnt matter I slap a warning on it, its the consumers right to know and choose especially on a topic like this where we really just dont know .

I wish there were a rating scale for diketone content in mixed juice. I agree if there's any question it gets a warning, and I know that's what you do at mamaj's.

But there's a big difference between a recipe that includes perhaps 1% of a flavoring that doesn't have full disclosure, and a recipe actually based on flavorings with a known high diketone content. Until that day comes (and it likely never will), yep - slap a warning on anything questionable.

 

[wllmc]

I wish there were a rating scale for diketone content in mixed juice. I agree if there's any question it gets a warning, and I know that's what you do at mamaj's.

But there's a big difference between a recipe that includes perhaps 1% of a flavoring that doesn't have full disclosure, and a recipe actually based on flavorings with a known high diketone content. Until that day comes (and it likely never will), yep - slap a warning on anything questionable.

I agree because in my belief there is a difference and a scale system would be nice for any amount not just if its under the acceptable amount we can claim its free system we have now.

 

[outwest]

Warnings are always a good thing. They help the consumer and they protect the business. Back in the early days, when I was selling dekang juice, I was one of the first vendors to put a 'keep away from children and pets' warning on the bottles. I was shocked to learn that others weren't doing it.

 

[wllmc]

Warnings are always a good thing. They help the consumer and they protect the business. Back in the early days, when I was selling dekang juice, I was one of the first vendors to put a 'keep away from children and pets' warning on the bottles. I was shocked to learn that others weren't doing it.

its just the right thing to do, @HeadInClouds and I both have flavors on Mama Js that anyone else would claim to be D/A/AP free because of the super low amount thats actually being used that technically one could claim to be free of but in my mind that just doesnt sit right. either it does or doesnt. I like HIC's scale idea. hopefully future generations will benefit from all our guinea pigging

 

[soulshine]

I had to look up "diketone". I thought you were talking about a 70's lesbian pop band for a moment

LMAO...I wasn't gonna go there..but since you did...."Like"...LOL

 

[Peter Shukin]

Yes, I guess all we can do is watch all the reports, and try to eliminate as much of the bad as possible. I avoid Lorann period. I think the best we can do is use flavors with no diketones for one, especially diacetyl. I've thrown all mine out. I suppose trace amounts that are unmeasurable could still be in even butyric acid mixes, but what can you do. Watch this list for additions at all times as well: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors/warnlist
I guess we have to learn by doing, and do by learning....

 

[Peter Shukin]

I could never buy premade again, I have to know what is in every bottle now. Guess I'm a bit more paranoid because both my parents ended up dying from cancer from smoking. I have to try to save people from knowing that horror. So I just mix every bottle from scratch after researching every flavor going into it... maybe I'm paranoid, or just trying to save lives by not going on the edge. Just like I don't get the .15 ohmers with mechs firing at combustion temps. What the hell? This is supposed to save lives, not find new ways to off them....

 

[Peter Shukin]

And someone asked if if would get my mixes lab tested, yes, I think I would like to do that. I'd have an edge over some of my biggest Canadian competition.

 

[MySaladDays]

I assume that most of what you mix with is made by Flavor Art since they are, I believe, the only company that freely posts lab reports on all flavors.
.

Can you link me to that? I used to have a list, tried to go back and the link was so old it didn't work anymore.

 

[Peter Shukin]

I'm digging up all my lists again, a bit frustrated because I thought I had them all bookmarked.... might take me a day or 2 but I'll get them up and list them. I still look at the list at: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors/warnlist because flavors will come up that have baddies, and it's a quick reference for all flavors.

 

[Peter Shukin]

God, as I'm digging through all this shit.... I realize I'm getting close to 2 years smoke free after 40 years of smoking. It kind of reminds me of what's most important. Quitting smoking, and living. Both my parents died from smoking and cancer. In 8 years of vaping, no one has died from it. Yet 1000s have died from smoking in the same period of time. Does it really matter?