Employer "wellness screenings" and cotinine testing.

Discussion in 'Vaping Health Related' started by MD_Boater, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yesterday, I switched from 12mg to 0mg eliquid in preparation of taking my company's wellness screening. Last year, I switched to 0mg for 10 days, and the cotinine test came back clean. This year, I am only going to do 0mg for 6 days.

    We have a fairly large user community here, so I thought it might be interesting to see what we can learn from each other's experiences. If you've had to take a wellness screening for your health insurance, or your employer, please take a moment to provide the following details:
    • Did you pass the test?
    • What was your normal eLiquid strength in mg?
    • Did you stop vaping or switch to no nicotine eLiquid before the test?
    • If "Yes" to the above question, how many days prior to the test did you stop or switch?
    • Did you "cheat" at all prior to the test?
    • What type of test was administered (blood, urine, saliva, other)?
    • If available, what was your cotinine level?
    My answers from last year:
    • Did you pass the test? Yes
    • What was your normal eLiquid strength in mg? 18mg
    • Did you stop vaping or switch to no nicotine eLiquid before the test? Switched to 0mg
    • If "Yes" to the above question, how many days prior to the test did you stop or switch? 10 Days
    • Did you "cheat" at all prior to the test? Yes, Nightly. I dripped 10-15 hits of 18mg eLiquid.
    • What type of test was administered (blood, urine, saliva, other)? Blood
    • If available, what was your cotinine level? 0 ng/ml
    Sometime in the next 2-3 weeks, I will update this post with this years' results!
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
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  2. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    So is the wellness screen mandatory? Seems to me that you might be tested for more that just the metabolites of nicotine. Eat some pizza and drink a few beers the night before the test, it'll show up. Any company that uses "wellness screening" as part of a 7 panel drug test (you were tested, trust me) is on my fuckoff list. And to top all that off, I don't do drugs with the exception of a few beers every now and then.
     
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  3. Ld3441

    Ld3441 Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I would say it is mandatory.
    It is the insurance companies more than the employers.
    Last year I switched to vaping due to my insurance company was going up 150% on premiums for anyone that used tobacco products.
    Vaping was not included, thank God! I was expecting them to say no nicotine this year but that hasn't happened... yet.
     
  4. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    They are. They also test for cholesterol, lipids, body mass index, and waist circumference.

    Translation: If you smoke or if you are overweight, get your wallet out.
     
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  5. UncleRJ

    UncleRJ Will write reviews for Beer! Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Reviewer

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    Fortunately, this is something I don't have to worry about.

    Very long story cut very short and don't ask me to explain the details, I am grandfathered into a very good health insurance plan and no testing is ever required for me other than the usual test from my doctor and the worse that happens with those is I get yelled at if my Cholesterol is not where it should be.

    However, from time to time I get involved in specific projects where I do need to be tested for the fun stuff which is why I don't dare enjoy a nice bud in a pipe from time to time.

    But I do feel for you folks that have to put up with that crap!
     
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  6. freemind

    freemind Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    My wife and I have to go through a wellness check yearly. It only tests cholesterol, BP, weight, and height.

    The smoking issue is only asked, not to be proven by testing. I have not seen anything about vaping to date, being an issue.
     
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  7. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    My answers from test taken on 12/31/2014:
    • Did you pass the test? NO
    • What was your normal eLiquid strength in mg? 12mg
    • Did you stop vaping or switch to no nicotine eLiquid before the test? Switched to 0mg.
    • If "Yes" to the above question, how many days prior to the test did you stop or switch? 4 Days
    • Did you "cheat" at all prior to the test? Yes,. I vaped 20-30 hits of 12mg eLiquid daily.
    • What type of test was administered (blood, urine, saliva, other)? Blood
    • If available, what was your cotinine level? Not provided to me, but the lab uses 25 ng/ml as the cut off between testing negative vs. positive.
    So.... I have to take a retest by 2/1/15. I have been nic free (vaping 0mg) for a full 8.5 days as I type this post. I will most likely take the retest tomorrow afternoon, or Saturday morning.

    Last year, I drank a tall glass of grapefruit juice every time that I cheated and vaped nic. This year, I did not.

    I can say for sure that if you vape about 3ml per day of 12 mg juice, and only stop for 4 days (cheating once or twice a day for approx 10 minutes each time) before a cotinine test with a 25ng/mg threshold, you will FAIL.

    I'll update again in a week or two to let you know if stopping for 9 or 10 days is sufficient to pass.
     
  8. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    You have now...
     
  9. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    Over 10yrs ago I said they would be putting us on the scales...
     
  10. freemind

    freemind Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Obesity cost the insurance industry MORE than any other affliction to date. So yeah, I can see why they are concerned with our weight.
     
  11. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    BMI used today is more total horse shit cooked up by a frigging bean counter 115 years ago and mean exactly fuck all. 100% actuary voodoo, with absolute zero medical fact.
    I watched the navy tell ultrathoner and SEAL he was obese. Bitch please that dude barely had enough skin to do a caliper test on and had to take a hydro tank test for an accurate result.. less than 5% body fat. He still had to get a medical waiver for being over weight... BMI stupidity.

    So to have a non medical person look at the height weight alone is frigging pointless.

    I have also seen dumb as fuck doctors tell people well over 6' tall in very physical jobs they needed to loose 25-50lbs more.to take them to 175-195 lbs.
    Umm they are at the lightest they are going to get with their frames and still have the strength and muscle mass to continue doing their job without muscle mass loss and it affecting their soft tissues and joint stability. Any lighter and they are risking serious long term injuries.
     
  12. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    Well, I'm a lil fluffy and I smoked for years but I'm pretty damned healthy! I don't have diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, COPD or other lung dz. My thyroid died (may my metabolism RIP) my cholesterol is borderline and I'm VERY ADD! But no major chronic or acute health conditions related to being fluffy! But here I am getting older and things will start to catch up to me I'm sure. And you know the whole health care system makes a ton of money from our ailments! Including insurance companies! Why aren't they pushing for clean air, clean environment, clean water and advocating HEALTH? Because the WHOLE healthcare system is driven by pharmaceuticals. DRUGS. Happy healthy people don't need em on a daily basis. If the MAJORITY of us were happy healthy pplz they would have only a small niche market to cater to. They would lose billions. Hey sounds like a WONDERFUL IDEA! Lets start a movement geared to make people healthy and happy and see how many business cartels fall! Sorry, told ya I was ADD...
     
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  13. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    The ONLY people who profit off the BMI chart without looking at the in range other stuff is the big insurance..
    "hey someone is a little fluffy" lets raise their rates worse than a mafia loan shark and cut their benefits... oh they injured themselves or made them sick trying to conform to the voodoo charts??? fuck it drop em.
     
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  14. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    Hope all goes well. Let us know.
     
  15. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    LOL ween off of nic for 14 days.
    Every day several times a day consume red peppers, tomatoes, eggplant and potatoes... if you test positive then they are not taking dietary test limitations.

    But then again I am a sick puppy that way. I would do it to screw with them in a big way only to point out the flaws for eating healthy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
  16. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Took it today. 9.5 days of 0 nic. No cheating. I'll know by next week. And this year, they set the expectation that they will be looking at BMI as well as waist circumference and weight for next year...
     
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  17. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    I have went down on the nic but because I vape alot. i didn't want to vape the equivalent of four pks of analogs a day as far as nicotine intake. I wouldn't mind continuing until I get to no nic. How does no nic effect flavor?
     
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  18. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    It was so easy to switch to vaping 0mg. I had no cravings, withdrawals, nothing. I vaped some of the 12mg juice that I have and I can finally notice difference. I like the nic for the throat hit and the taste, but the next batch of juice I make is going to be 6mg. I may even go to 3mg by summer. At this rate, my nic stash will last 20 years.
     
  19. Ld3441

    Ld3441 Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    So does drunk driving and many other things. :confused:
     
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  20. muth

    muth Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I haven't noticed much of a flavor difference. I started with 1.8 and am down to .3mg. But the TH is nada. I upped my PG for throat hit which helped but I need more VG for some of my builds. I found that Yaeliq's nic has a better hit even at 3mg so I'm going to experiment with more of his juices.

    I should add that I have some olfactory damage, so keep that in mind. I'm not going to up my nic so I have to find strong flavors with decent nic quality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
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  21. freemind

    freemind Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I've dropped my juice from 8 MG down to 4 MG for the past two days. I no longer clearo, I just use an RTA and drip.

    I'm about to drive myself nuts with it. I have went through almost 20 mils of juice in my RTA today.
     
  22. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    But you will start vaping less again if you stick with it.
     
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  23. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    One thing I have noticed about vaping is that perhaps the "flavor therapy" is helping with the fluff issue. For one I love to vape, so my mouth gets dry and vapors tongue is no fun! So I drink lots of water. Plus when I am enjoying a really good juice I don't think about food. I forget to eat! I don't realize I've went without until my stomach starts growling angrily at me. I am hoping the obsession to find my next favorite flavor won't fade! ANOTHER positive from dropping cigs and picking up vaping :D Pills, gym memberships, surgery etc...not my cup of tea for wt loss. And some jackass in an office far far away telling me to do it or else isn't going to work either. Whatever happens to work off the fluff will have to be something that fits into my life and that I enjoy.
     
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  24. Kaleidoscope71

    Kaleidoscope71 New Member

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    The flavor is so much more intense with a dripper. I don't have one yet
     
  25. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    That is a good question, and one that I could NOT answer last year. I started vaping on Nov 1, 2013 with 18mg e-liquid. On Nov 6th, I had my last cigarette. On Dec 10th, I switched to no nic. On Dec 20th, I took and passed the nicotine screening for work. After the test, I started vaping 12mg again. At the time, I didn't notice a taste or TH difference. This year, after switching to no nic for 9.5 days and then vaping some 12mg, I can easily taste and feel the nicotine. The first difference is throat hit. I never understood what the heck people were talking about when they said "throat hit". I can tell now. No nic e-liquid feels cooler, lighter, and smoother. E-liquid with nicotine feels warmer, and adds the feeling of something actually getting inhaled. It makes the vape warmer, and it seems to add a "weight", or "body" to the vape that you can feel as it goes down your throat. The second difference is in the flavor. Pure nicotine has a characteristic odor and flavor to it. I have some MFS, Wizard Labs, and Nude Nicotine nic. They all smell and taste the same to me. There is a definite taste difference between a bottle of no nic e-liquid, and one of the same flavor that has nicotine in it. Some people call it "peppery", but I just think it tastes like... well... nicotine. It smells pretty much exactly like it tastes. To me, no nic e-liquid tastes better. Nicotine tastes like a chemical. I do not vape tobacco flavors, I vape mostly fruity flavors. There is no fruit that has a natural nicotine taste that I can think of. It is super easy for me to taste it now. I'm going to switch to 6mg when I mix my next batch. I don't "need" the nicotine, but I definitely like it in my e-liquid.

    I hope this helps... Some.
     
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  26. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Update: passed. 9 days seems to be the right number.
     
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  27. VapedCrusader

    VapedCrusader Custard Junkie Gold Contributor

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    I was vaping 12mg last year when I took my test and I passed.. I don't have the results anymore but I didn't switch any of my normal vaping trends.. I work for a huge insurance company that do these tests every year for an extra 250$ in our paychecks
     
  28. freemind

    freemind Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    So were they testing for nicotine? If so, it seems odd, that you vaped 12 MG all the way to your test, passed, and they didn't detect it.

    Yet MD_boater didn't pass his on a lower nic level. And less frequency vaping.
     
  29. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Depends on how sensitive they set the cointine levels for pass/fail.
     
  30. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    They said the cut off was 25ng/ml. They test for cotinine, which is what nicotine metabolizes into in your body.
     
  31. Tom950

    Tom950 VU Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    And all this time I thought you kept spelling nicotine wrong. :)
     
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  32. Rod Bertram

    Rod Bertram

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    it's human nature :)
     
  33. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Depending honestly on your nic, as in how it is sourced.
    I could quit vaping for a month and piss hotter than fukoshima due to my diet.
    Maybe we could have a test on the insurance company stooges... to see how far up their asses they are.
     
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  34. Hoozdo

    Hoozdo New Member

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    Very helpful posts MD_Boater, thanks! I am currently under consideration for employment at two different hospitals. Both of them require cotinine tests. I better switch to 0 mg tomorrow and buy some grapefruit juice. ;)
     
  35. MD_Boater

    MD_Boater Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Give it 9 full days at 0 mg, and you will pass with flying colors. I DIY my eliquid, so I just made a couple bottles of my favorites in 0mg, and I didn't even feel the difference. Nicotine addiction is a myth. You are addicted to one of, or a combination of, the several hundred other chemicals in cigarettes. When you stop using nothing BUT the nicotine, stopping is a walk in the park. Or, on the beach...
     
  36. Giraut

    Giraut Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yet.

    Count on your insurance company to ream you in the ass at the slightest opportunity. Or change the rules unilateraly and tell you you're free to get insured someplace else if you're not happy about it.

    Bunch of fuckers, the whole lot of them.
     
  37. Merrick92

    Merrick92 Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    2 years running on having to get tested here as well. Passed both years. Went down to 0mg 5 days before test. Typically at 3mg, but I vape alot so don't let that low number fool you :p I hate that I have to do it, but I'm glad I have passed both times.Never got a straight answer for ppl who may be using the patch/gum/nrt to quit smoking. They would still test positive, but have stopped smoking. Do they punished for trying to quit as well? Seems like they should find a better testing method.
     
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  38. Doug.E.Fresh

    Doug.E.Fresh Member For 3 Years

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  39. Merrick92

    Merrick92 Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    My argument to that though is we shouldn't have to.:D
     
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  40. Giraut

    Giraut Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Exactly right.

    The so-called "war on drugs" started many decades ago when the interests of the cotton industry were hurt by the hemp industry: they invented the (The M word removed) bullshift and ensured it was demonized and made illegal. Well, today the tobacco industry is going after the e-cigarette industry for the exact same reasons, and with the exact same methods.

    The war on drugs is slowly winding down. Here comes the new war on nicotine...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
  41. fwtechwiz

    fwtechwiz Member For 2 Years

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    My insurance gives us a 'discount' on our premium if we are tobacco free for six months, and leaves us open for random testing if our employer 'deems it necessary'. They have already said vaping counts. We must sign an affidavit stating that we do not consume 'tobacco products', and risk termination if it is proved otherwise in order to get the discount. I intend to go to zero nic sometime soon and sign the friggin thing. Will be staying at zero nic, since that was my intention from the get go.
     
  42. DickyT

    DickyT ╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮ VU Donator Silver Contributor

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    Wellness testing at my job is voluntary. It is the only thing that is voluntary though. If we complete the wellness testing they cover 80% of our health insurance premium (employee) and pay $50 of the monthly for each additional family member.

    If I don't do the testing, no discounts. Since I have me, my wife, and my son on my plan, I do the testing. It is the difference between $110\month and $680\month for health insurance.

    They don't care about tobacco use though, they are only concerned with drug (narcotics) tests, blood pressure, and cholesterol.
     
  43. VapingN252

    VapingN252 Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I just had a wellness check up and vape like a mad man. No nic thou, but they aren't like "I can tell you're a heavy vaper". I thought my glucose would be high thou. Sweet juice and the nature of PG/VG can make blood sugar rise. I actually thought I started gaining weight after I started using drippers a year or so back.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  44. mighty woo

    mighty woo New Member

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    I need help and u lot seem to know what ur on about.so, thing is, I had to have urine cotinine test and had gone no nic for 3 days but only cheating slightly ( puffin on 6mg couple times a day ) haven't heard back if I passed but may have to get tested again in another 9 days so still on no nic (menthol) but adding 2-3 drops of 8mg for a hit. so my question is do u think I already passed or maybe pass next one? thanks for any advice
     
  45. skiball

    skiball Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Just my 2 cents but pound for pound vape has more nic than reg cigs so....
     
  46. mighty woo

    mighty woo New Member

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    So u reckon I failed..? Oh crap
     
  47. skiball

    skiball Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Id def stick to 0 nic for your 2nd go.
     
  48. skiball

    skiball Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    But potatos and eggplant have nic in them could just say you ate alot of them and you might want to avoid eating those.
     
  49. mighty woo

    mighty woo New Member

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    Thanks for ur help
     
  50. skiball

    skiball Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Heres a link thats got alot of info http://www.cotininetest.com/ and also if yours is a urine test drink alot of water around a galon also make sure its not the first piss of the day and use the urine Mid stream pee a 1/4 in toliet than some in cup than the rest in toliet
     

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