Has 8/8 had an effect on you yet? Share your story here.

Discussion in 'FDA REGULATIONS DISCUSSION' started by Catalyst, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. Catalyst

    Catalyst Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    If you have been in a B&M or online site and noticed anything different or negative, please share your experience...
     
  2. GtownGeorge

    GtownGeorge Member For 2 Years

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    Local B&M stopped selling 'house' juice. Said they will start again soon but with a limited selection.
     
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  3. nitsuj

    nitsuj Member For 1 Year

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    I've been in 2 B&M stores since the 8th. One charged me a dollar to be part of their "club" and allowed me to sample for a year. The other charged me a quarter for samples.
     
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  4. ChrisL

    ChrisL VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I noticed at one of the forums favorite juice brands (verdevalleyvapes.com), you have to jump thru a bunch of hoops to get an order of ejuice. A selfie with a photo ID? The hard part for me is having to sign for the package at delivery. Ill have to go the post office to pick up my order. Seems like a lot of work...:oops:.
     
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  5. gingerbread

    gingerbread Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    No l live in the UK :p

    My changes come in November 2016 & May 2017
     
  6. vampyrcraeft

    vampyrcraeft New Member

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    Had to take a selfie holding my ID and credit card used for purchase for vapor kings (even though my order was on the 5th) or my order would have been cancelled 7 days from the date of the order. Definitely intrusive. Haven't been to my local vape shop to see what changes they have made yet
     
  7. gingerbread

    gingerbread Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    ^^^Yes it does sound intrusive. Let's hope they don't start doing that in the UK.
     
  8. wbrock

    wbrock New Member

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    As a B&M owner I can say that most the current regulations are going to be a annoyance for most current vapers until December when shops that mix or bottle their own juice have to register as a tobacco manufacturer. If you have a shop that custom mixes for you I hope you stocked on your juice.
    For new vapers just starting that's a whole another story, we have watch what we say and do.
     
  9. scjulian19

    scjulian19 New Member

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    My vape shop actually game me the flavor separate from, the PG/VG nicotine mix on 8/8 due to the regulation
     
  10. Time

    Time Platinum Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    The easy way to DIY. I like it.
     
  11. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    Can Chinese manufacturers still ship to the US?
     
  12. ChrisL

    ChrisL VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yes, they can ship items introduced to market before 8/8/16. For 2 more years if they apply (on paper) for PMTA.
    China will continue to design and manufacture vape products for the world market. It is just getting your hands on them that will be the issue.
     
  13. mgmrick

    mgmrick Member For 2 Years

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    Discountvapers.com needs your last 4 ss numbers now
     
  14. SantosPerea

    SantosPerea New Member

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    I placed an order on 6th and got it yesterday, did not need to pay for the extra tax, so I think it's still fine for us to shop the vaping stuffs online.
     

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  15. Dreamer13

    Dreamer13 New Member

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    I'm curious about the tax charged on an online order. Does the tax apply to the state you currently reside or the state you order from?
     
  16. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    This is from ecig.com. Lets just say they were my favorite vendor. Nobody is getting my ss# and they also wanted a copy of your DL faxed/sent in.

    steve.png
     
  17. skt239

    skt239 VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    The two shops I've been to while in VA for work both still had the sample bar up and one was still selling house juice.
     
  18. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    I live in Va. and it's business as usual. Nothing changed but online vendors.
     
  19. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    It doesn't even look like a third party verification. Who is storing the SSN (last 4 digits).
     
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  20. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    Of course i didn't do it or make the purchase. But here is there response...
    Ecig replied...

    They need the last four of your ssn, not the whole number, and they need that and a birthday that they cross reference with a data base to make sure you are who you say you are, we then need a copy of the DL sent to [email protected]. tts what the new FDA regulations require us to do
     
  21. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yes, I am paranoid about the SSN. My identity has been compromised twice in my life.
    I think there is less invasive ID verification checks out there. My bank was using one (online) that scrubbed the databases. It never asked for SSN.
     
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  22. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    Mine was this week. 750.00 out of my checking account. I still don't have the money back in my account and aren't sure how they hacked the account. This is a government credit union also lol.
     
  23. RBVapes

    RBVapes Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I can confirm that these are in fact a requirement, and trust me as a vendor it's killing us. People don't want to do it, and many (if not most) on-line shops aren't complying yet. The actual rules are pretty simple, the purchaser's age MUST be verified (clicking the old "OK I'm 18+) button doesn't cut it anymore. All services we've researched need a full name, and last four of SSN to verify via third party databases. The good news is the SSN bit only get's used once and then the age check is cached. However, it does require that the purchaser provides a cell phone # so that they can verify an SMS code (likely to confirm you're you and not logged in as Mom or Dad). The law further stipulates that if the buyer is under the age of 27 we must validate they are in possession of the photo ID (hence the selfie). It should also be some relief to the buyer that the last 4 digits of your SSN can't be used to open any accounts or steal your identity it can only be used to verify who you are. Think about it, call your phone, cable, bank, etc and the automatic phone systems always ask for your last 4.

    We've looked at a non-third party solution, but that puts us and the buyer at risk of privacy issues, not to mention SFATA.ORG strongly recommends using proven third party solutions to guarantee compliance rather than building a fancy form in house that looks like it's verifying but it's not.

    These rules are draconian and increase the cost to the storefront (age verification isn't free) and causes lost sales. Believe me, I'd rather just ignore the rule but if that happens for too long I GUARANTEE you that the next step will just be to outlaw on-line sales of vape "stuff". In fact, they have already done that in UT.

    As far as B&M, I know of one already that was inspected this week by the ATF and made to toss all of their juice as they had not applied as a registered manufacturer and their bottles didn't have child proof caps.

    [email protected]
     
  24. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Wow! Sorry to hear/read.
     
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  25. RBVapes

    RBVapes Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  26. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    inspects and BoostAddict like this.
  27. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    It appears to state that one has to check ID. It does not state to use Bluecheck or use identifiers such as SSN (last 4 digits).

    Anyone can do a google search on Bluecheck. I would suggest reading the Reddit pages related to Bluecheck.
    I will go back to cig a likes before ordering from a vendor who uses Bluecheck. That is all I'm going to say about this at this time.
     
  28. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    Sad times for online vendors! No to Bluecheck or giving out my ss#. If i do need something, it will be from a local vendor from now on.
     
  29. RBVapes

    RBVapes Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Oh I hear you, the only reason we have BC in place now is that was the only 3rd party service we could find in short notice that also did state by state requirements. We're actively researching other verification opportunities for sure.
     
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  30. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    I wish you the best of luck! It really sucks it came down like this. The FDA has overstepped it's boundaries!
     
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  31. RBVapes

    RBVapes Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yeah, we've actually temporarily disabled it after launch to find a non-SSN service. They do exist although automatic verification is only 75% successful, so more photo ID selfies and manual review will be required. We've had it up since 8/8 and frankly just can't afford a 60% drop in conversion rate as we run extremely tight margins. Fingers crossed we find something better before getting our FDA Warning / Cease and Desist letter!

    Of all the ones I've seen in use, MFS has the least obtrusive but I've got no idea what they're using. Something tells me a competitor saying hey I like yours better won't yield much. Parsing their code hasn't helped they do a VERY good (as they should) job obfuscating much of their site scripts.
     
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  32. BoostAddict

    BoostAddict Silver Contributor

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    This might be what you looking for. Seen them mentioned in other post. Good luck!

    https://veratad.com/
     
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  33. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I just read about this as well. I see they are more discreet/less invasive than Bluecheck.
     
  34. Lefty

    Lefty Silver Contributor

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    Lightning Vapes actually started before the regs went into effect for juice sales. They use a third party. I don't recall for sure but I think it was Veratad. Photo copy of your DL or passport. Address must match the shipping address. SSN not needed.
     
  35. Whiskey

    Whiskey Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    From the link provided above Post #26

    Your personal information is used by us to verify your identify as a primary purpose, and will not be used for a secondary purpose without your express or implied consent. Your personal information does not have to be disclosed to use; however, if it is not disclosed it may be impossible to provide the services you have requested.

    We may retain personal information as necessary from you, with the exception of your social security number, for a certain period of time and use it in a manner consistent with our practices under this privacy policy
     
  36. inspects

    inspects Squonkamaniac Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  37. Catalyst

    Catalyst Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    A B&M raided by the ATF? This was the type of shit I was mostly referring to when I have started this thread. Do you have a link or more info? That is what really intrigues me, is any actual enforcement actions. I completely understand that vendors have to put food on their table, but I was see this whole thing reaching the level of the Boston Tea Party before anything about these regulations are changed for the better.
     
  38. Doots

    Doots VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Hello Sean

    We have seen the same issue at Doodlebugsejuice. We have no choice but to obey the law. We use the same system most are using that in compliance.
    I am seeing a lot of shops that sell online not in compliance. They are in for real trouble soon. Last 4 of SS# is not an issue. cant be used to open accounts. Like you said FDA can demand online sales not be permitted at all.. So Everyone that buys vapor products on line in the USA will need to comply or not purchase online.. I has been costly for us to comply but are trying to obey the law of the land. Dont like it but its what we have to do..
     
  39. Doots

    Doots VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    There have been questions as to whether Veradad's procedure will meet FDA approval.. Just saying. Dont know for sure, but some question this. We use Bluecheck because they specialize in ecig sales and also allow us to check for age 21 in California which Veradad didnt offer as far as I know..
     
  40. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee

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    Mine DO NOT and I will not.
     
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  41. MC5

    MC5 Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    I was going to say ID verification is just the first hoop we have to jump through.
    As I think about it, it's more like a slowly closing noose.
     
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  42. PhilTBA

    PhilTBA New Member

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    Yeah, and with the uk leaving the EU, it'll most likey have very little effect. A couple of online vendors have told me they'll be continuing to use 30ml bottles. :D
     
  43. Lefty

    Lefty Silver Contributor

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    I can't swear they use Veradad. Age check in CA, TX and MA before the federal regs went into effect were the stated reason. It's still the same form now. Whether that proves sufficient for the federal stuff I can't say.
    https://www.lightningvapes.com/pages/age-verification
    Ultimately it's up to the seller to meet the regs. Then up to the buyer to decide if they want to participate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
  44. Doots

    Doots VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    That is completely correct .. We all arent even sure that the FDA will accept any of these 3rd party services. It is so subjective on their part and not completely transparent on their part. We have to wait for enforcement to start to take place.. To see what is in the bill, so to speak.. :)

    I hope online sales do not go away. I feel that if enough people object to buying and verifying their age online it will put the online vendors out of business quickly!
    Lack of sales has all of us thinking is this worth the effort and cost to us vendors.

    All said and done, if nothing changes in the FDA regs most juices and devices will not be sold anywhere after the next 2-3 years. Local shop or not. Except Cigalikes. B and M cant survive on sales of those items alone and they will close up..
     
  45. Lefty

    Lefty Silver Contributor

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    Well we can hope but I strongly suspect that outcome was their goal in the first place.
     
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  46. Markw4mms

    Markw4mms #Team Jimi Supporter VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    That would be my take on it.They are going to shut out everyone except their buddies over at Big Tobacco.:cuss2:
     
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  47. Carmmond

    Carmmond Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Don't forget the buddies in Pharma:xD:
     
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  48. MC5

    MC5 Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    So far it's been the age verification crap and a few websites that vendors shut down. Sad to see this chinese water torture slowly taking away our choices.
     
  49. Artemis

    Artemis Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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  50. Mattp169

    Mattp169 Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Vape Media

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    here's ,my thinking

    since no true age verification system can exist online. EVERYTHING CAN BE FALSIFIED
    my children could photoshop me holding my id
    and get my last 4 of ss and my cc number etc etc

    then the laywers need to be going after the fda on this front as well
    requiring the vendor to do theimpossible to prevent sales to minors
    also the sheer cost it adds should be an issue as well
    you can only TRULY check age in person and sometimes that fails as well

    the best option is to
    A. require everyone to be 21 to order online which sucks
    b. ship with Adult Signature Restricted Delivery
    from USPS
    then the online retailer can require that the PURCHASER sign for the delivery and them to prove to USPS they are over 21

    No need period for us to enter any other special information or use any age verify system period

    ye sthis would be annoying
    and bad for those 18-20
    but this is more realistic in terms of actually verifying identity so minors cant buy online

    Any age verication system online can be easily faked and puts personal information at risk

    ANd in fact i can not find a similar swervice from UPS or FedEx , so maybe this was teh intent to help bolster the post office.
     

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