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I feel trapped - and vaguely dirty

Giraut

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I have a hobby: I convert smoker to vaping. What I do is, whenever a friend/colleague/family member who smokes expresses the desire to "try that vaping thing", I propose the following deal:

- I lend them a basic starter kit - a 1100 mAh VV eGo battery, 2 Mini PT2s, an eGo charger, 3 bottles of nic juice with 3 different flavors, a carrying pouch, and a few local B&M and internet addresses to buy hardware and juice printed out on a piece of paper.

- I spend 10/15 minutes with them to explain how it works, what to expect/not to expect, etc.

- Depending on how much they smoke, if they've quit smoking and kept on vaping after x weeks - "x" being the number of weeks that, had they carried on smoking, it would have cost them the amount of money I've lent them in vaping hardware, in cigarettes - they pay me back if they want to keep the hardware I've lent them. Or they can give it back to me for whatever reason, at any time, and pay me the juice they've consumed, and enough to replace the PT2 atty heads and recondition the clearos for the next candidate.

So far it's been working great: I've converted 20 smokers in less than a year, with only one failure.

The trouble is, 2 of the 3 sampler bottles of juice are supplied by yours truly. I give them a bottle of commercial tobacco-flavored juice to transition from smoking, and 2 menthol- and apple-flavored juices to transition from the tobacco flavor, that I make myself. And they invariably end up liking my DIY juices.

11 of "my converts" keep asking me for more, and I have a special recipe for 5 of them who want more sour, more maltol, less PG, this-or-that amount of nic... I keep saying no, that they need to purchase online, but they're pushy and eventually I make more juice for them.

It's not like I really mind - although I now spend a couple hours every week-end filling bottles - and they pay me a token sum over my costs for my efforts. The real problem is, nic juices are illegal here. Strictly speaking, that makes me a pusher. And I didn't even want to end up supplying juice to vapers in the first place! All I wanted - that's my real pleasure - is to get other smokers to experience the magic of not being a smoker anymore and not crave either, like I have.

How do I tell these people off without pissing them off? Any advice from someone who's been in a similar situation?
 

UncleRJ

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Where do you live that E-Liquid is illegal?
 

Giraut

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Where do you live that E-Liquid is illegal?

Belgium. E-liquid isn't illegal here, nicotine is. It's killing the fledgling e-cig industry here: who would want to sell e-cigarettes when the main interest of them (smoking cessation through another means of getting nicotine - let's not beat about the bush) can't be promoted?
 

AmandaD

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I don't see you as being a 'pusher' at all, but I can understand there's something vaguely shady about it if purchasing nic is illegal. You could just tell them that you can't get nicotine anymore - you could plead that the cost of obtaining it illegally is prohibitive, or that you could go to jail for doing it. They should understand that, no?
 

Giraut

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I don't see you as being a 'pusher' at all, but I can understand there's something vaguely shady about it if purchasing nic is illegal. You could just tell them that you can't get nicotine anymore - you could plead that the cost of obtaining it illegally is prohibitive, or that you could go to jail for doing it. They should understand that, no?

Well, I could find an excuse I suppose. But the truth is, I don't want to lie. I'd like them to understand I don't want to make juices for them, without them getting cross and telling me *I* started them vaping and now I'm telling them to go buy juice at a premium (someone told me that once...)

Also, I suppose some of them will get into DIY someday. So if I bullshit them, they'll know eventually.
 

Celtic Fog

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time to move my friend...time to move.
 

kelli

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i don't really have an answer to your dilemma, but just wanted to tell you that you are a great ambassador for vaping! just don't get in trouble, ok?
 

Celtic Fog

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OBDave

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Start charging them more than they'd pay retail. Tell them it's become a lot of work to mix for other people, and that most people that do work expect to be paid for it.
 

Celtic Fog

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maybe try switching from nicotine to caffeine gradually, they both do similar things to our brain. There is another couple of chemicals available in oils that do the same thing as nicotine....more research would be needed to find the right dilution/mg per ml ratio. I will not post the products name, but it is easy to google.
 

m3rma1d

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Start charging them more than they'd pay retail. Tell them it's become a lot of work to mix for other people, and that most people that do work expect to be paid for it.

Best answer.
 

Savage_46

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I like your approach Giraut, very good idea. I think I may have to give that a shot. As far as your feelings on the nic, all up to you. What's the penalty for getting caught? If you don't want to run the risk, show them how to diy & where to buy everything. Or go with the less enabling approach, & give them some sites to read up on. Let them do their own research.

There was a time here in the US that certain liquids were illegal, yet people still wanted it. This obviously created a highly profitable underground business. This business ultimately led to the creation of our Nascar. You could be on to something here.... Vape racing
 

Celtic Fog

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Best answer.
its quite a drive to get retail there, as in a country over kind of drive....the sellers their are already black market.....
 

Celtic Fog

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in Belgium, they can be fined and or jailed.
 

Giraut

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I think I've found the solution: I now impose a 3 week waiting time between people asking for more juice and me delivering. Most don't plan that far ahead and fall back on internet vape shops to get more juice when they run out. I only have 2 people left who are happy to wait, and both are very good friends so I don't mind. Problem solved!

Also, I tried overcharging for my juices - up to 7 euros a bottle, which is WAY more than most bona fide retailers charge - but that didn't deter people: amazingly, they seemed happy to pay through the nose provided the stuff was made to their taste, available quickly and delivered to them in person. I would never have thought...

Incidentally, I've converted three more smokers this week - or rather, all three declared they had quit smoking, are really happy with vaping, and decided to pay me back in full instead of giving me back their starter kits - so I feel mighty proud :)
 

Ryedan

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Congrats on all the conversions Giraut, nice going
JC_doubleup.gif
. Now that you have the juice thing worked out it should be smooth sailing.
 

Cloudy Peak Vapes

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I say kudos to you bud! I have tried unsuccessfully to convert some people, though I only offered to let them try my setups. I don't DIY either, yet, hopefully one day. I think your 3 week idea is great, and if you make a profit since they like your juice, you deserve it. The legal issue is a bit hairy, though. You've saved some lives, that's awesome!

My most recent attempt was with some people at an office that I have an account with for delivering large catering orders, and a bunch of them vape, and are allowed to inside. The guys smoking outside said they didn't vape so they could come outside for a smoke break. I just kinda shrugged and said ok. I've offered to help them learn to build as well, so they'd get more satisfactory results, but no go. Keep up the good work, and if you are truly worried, cut off the juice making for others. You've already more than done your part IMO.
 

Giraut

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It seems obvious to me. You taught them to how to vape. Teach them how to mix.

They don't want to get into mixing. I've told them where to get the ingredients, but they told me flat out they're after ready-made juice and vaping hardware because they're not interested in messing about with syringes, kanthal or silica.

I pointed out the price difference and the freedom of making the juices and setting up their hardware exactly the way they like, but they told me they want something as close to hassle-free as cigarettes, even if it's more expensive, as long as it's cheaper than cigarettes.

Most people aren't into vaping as much as we are, and couldn't be bothered doing DIY. Vaping is just something they do, and filling up a tank or changing an atomizer head once in a while is as much trouble as they care to bear.

To be honest, if it wasn't so damn cheap to mix and rebuild, I'm not sure I would do it either myself: offer me pre-filled cartos at 7c a pop, available in many flavors and nic ratios at any tobacconist, and I'll quit messing about with syringes and RDAs any day :)
 

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