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Joye Cuboid 150w MOD - 25amp limit?

kstat83

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I picked one up because I'm a sucker for these inexpensive TC devices. Love my xCube too - I don't care what everyone else says about it!


The Good:

The Cuboid has a very strong feature set, and IMO exceptional aesthetics. I had a terrible experience with the original VTC - the one with the racing stipe - so I'm very happy to see how far they've come with the menu system and consistency. The TC experience I'm having with the Cuboid is very, very good. The ability to customize the TCR values is a feature that following my xCube I now consider a requisite for purchase for any TC device, and it works great on the Cuboid.


The Bad(?):

Here's where the Cuboid fell flat for me: in "power mode" (regular wattage mode) there seems to be some odd limits built in. I understand mathematical realties and accept that despite the "200 watt upgrade" I did on it upon opening it for the first time, with dual 18650s 200/150 watts is only a reality under certain parameters. Hence with the 0.56 RDA build on there the mod would only allow me to set the wattage to 144w (hitting the 9v limit). That's fine. Makes sense.

Here's what doesn't:

I threw a .11 RDA on there, just to push the limits and see. The mod would not allow a wattage setting above ~68w. Yes. 68 watts. At 0.11 That comes to 2.4ish Volts. I was totally befuddled. Then I saw the Amp reading on the mod: 24.8a at those settings. So does this mean that this dual 18650 "150 watt" device has a 25amp hard limit? Why? How? It doesn't compute with me, and I can't find any verification. But no matter what I put on it the mod will not allow the wattage settings to pull the voltage above 9v or the amperage above 25amp.

Reminds me of the Smok M50 (was that the name?) that would randomly reduce your power to like 20watts. I just can't get next to a device like that. It's a shame because I rarely take my RDAs off my mechanical boxes, so in practice it's not a big deal I suppose. But I do not like it at all when mods underperform basic functionality. I'm torn. Had this quirk not been included the Cuboid would likely have taken over as my daily TC / RTA driver, as it stands idk if I'll even keep it. I just don't accept that one should have to choose. Hell, my $54 xCube does everything it's supposed to, and well. So it's not a price point thing.


I'd love to hear anyone else's experience with the Cuboid. Have you too experienced this apparent 25amp limit? Think it's an oversight that will be remedied in an update? Do you like the TC performance as much as I do?



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Here's me firing that low build so you can see the amp reading:

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Vapin4Joy

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Just a thought, in power mode is there the ability to lock the ohm reading?
 

freemind

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IMO, I'll almost bet it does it because battery technology hasn't caught up with our high wattage devices.

How many 40 amp continuous draw 18650's are on the market yet? Most batteries are 20 amp continuous.
 

kstat83

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Just a thought, in power mode is there the ability to lock the ohm reading?

I have not seen that capability. I believe the xCube actually allows that feature. Though it was likely meant solely for TC, for which it serves a function, and simply inadvertently was allowed to cross modes.


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kstat83

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IMO, I'll almost bet it does it because battery technology hasn't caught up with our high wattage devices.

How many 40 amp continuous draw 18650's are on the market yet? Most batteries are 20 amp continuous.


Right, but there's two batteries in there :) A 25a limit in a dual 18650 regulated device makes little sense.

The 9v limit makes sense. But 25a? Unless I'm understanding things wrong (which is perfectly likely) that is not a common thing.


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freemind

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Right, but there's two batteries in there :) A 25a limit in a dual 18650 regulated device makes little sense.

The 9v limit makes sense. But 25a? Unless I'm understanding things wrong (which is perfectly likely) that is not a common thing.


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I have an IPV3 Li. In the instructions it explains in order to use the device at the full 200 watts, you need to have 40 amp batteries to do so. No one is making a true 40 amp battery.

So I'm sure, the problem you are having (not a problem) is that the mod maker added the safety in the chip to stop people from blowing their faces off. No one else is currently doing it, but who know if they will.

The only way I know of to get the true 200 watts safely, is with a Lipo pack DNA200 mod.
 

kstat83

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I have an IPV3 Li. In the instructions it explains in order to use the device at the full 200 watts, you need to have 40 amp batteries to do so. No one is making a true 40 amp battery.

So I'm sure, the problem you are having (not a problem) is that the mod maker added the safety in the chip to stop people from blowing their faces off. No one else is currently doing it, but who know if they will.

The only way I know of to get the true 200 watts safely, is with a Lipo pack DNA200 mod.


Two 25 amp batteries should be able to push 40ish amps for the duration of the average pull without much problem. If we were talking about a mod with one cell then a hard 25amp limit makes sense. With two cells they have effectively limited the power output the half of what it should be. No?


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freemind

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No. Your amp limit doesn't double with two batteries.
 

kstat83

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No. Your amp limit doesn't double with two batteries.


Aww shucks. I'm a dimwit. So that's it? It gives me 2.5volts at low resistances? Still seems lame considering the equally affordable xCube at least throws its 8volt max it.


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cjk081293

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Looks like unless they do a firmware update that addresses this it'll be off my list. With two batteries and regulated mods I have a few fun builds in the .1-.2 range that can take 120-130 watts without getting hot or anything. 70 watts wouldn't even bring the coils up to heat. :facepalm:

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nightshard

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I have not seen that capability. I believe the xCube actually allows that feature. Though it was likely meant solely for TC, for which it serves a function, and simply inadvertently was allowed to cross modes.


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Right, but there's two batteries in there :) A 25a limit in a dual 18650 regulated device makes little sense.

The 9v limit makes sense. But 25a? Unless I'm understanding things wrong (which is perfectly likely) that is not a common thing.


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2 batteries in serial have the same amp limit as one.

Screw PC and I don't mean the computer.
 
Just noticed this problem yesterday.

2 batteries in serial may have the same amp limit as one, but the voltage is doubled, so you still can get double the power. When downstepping a current, you're actually asking less amps to the battery.

For instance :
If you have a 8.4V/13A input (fully charged batteries), you'll get a 4.2V/26A output (for a .16 ohm build). In that case you're not asking your batteries anything unreasonable, but the box won't fire because the threshold was set on the output current.

Same for me, that's a dealbreaker and I'll return my box if Joyetech doesn't give any news about this issue.

Biggest problem would be if this was a hardware limit, like the chipset not being able do physically handle more than a 25A output.
 
I just received my Cuboid this morning and I grabbed an rda with a .13 build, it maxed out at around 80 watts. I was dumbfounded and was wondering what that he'll was wrong. I emailed joyetech about this issue. I think it was drawing 24 amps. So the 25 amp limit makes sense, although I wish I had known about this "safety feature" I still love the device don't get me wrong, but I might not have pulled the trigger on this if I had known.
 

kstat83

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Looks like unless they do a firmware update that addresses this it'll be off my list. With two batteries and regulated mods I have a few fun builds in the .1-.2 range that can take 120-130 watts without getting hot or anything. 70 watts wouldn't even bring the coils up to heat. :facepalm:

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It's a nice little mod but not so much for running low resistances at higher power. Which, frankly, isn't cool for a "200watt" device.

Also, I finally received communication back from Joyetech confirming that the device does indeed have a 25a limit built in.

Like you said, hopefully a firmware update improves this particular situation.


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freemind

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I just received my Cuboid this morning and I grabbed an rda with a .13 build, it maxed out at around 80 watts. I was dumbfounded and was wondering what that he'll was wrong. I emailed joyetech about this issue. I think it was drawing 24 amps. So the 25 amp limit makes sense, although I wish I had known about this "safety feature" I still love the device don't get me wrong, but I might not have pulled the trigger on this if I had known.
24.81 watts, according to the app on my phone.

In all reality, 25 amps is a good limit, considering that most all the safe batteries we use, have a 20 AMP CONTINUIOUS limit.

I know most will not like this about this mod, but at least THIS manufacture made a SAFE regulated mod. Were this mod to have a higher rated lipo pack, then I could see why people are upset.
 

kstat83

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I received a reply from Joyetech the other day. There is indeed a 25a limit


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JERUS

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24.81 watts, according to the app on my phone.

In all reality, 25 amps is a good limit, considering that most all the safe batteries we use, have a 20 AMP CONTINUIOUS limit.

I know most will not like this about this mod, but at least THIS manufacture made a SAFE regulated mod. Were this mod to have a higher rated lipo pack, then I could see why people are upset.
I think the issue is more about not having that clearly pointed out rather than the limit itself. It's great there are mods that will protect people even if they try to do questionable things, but there are people who understand the risks and what they're doing that want to push things. They should be able to make an informed decision, not have to buy it and find out. Now the funny thing is this I hadn't ever seen a case of a mishap with a regulated mod until the one with this, which was clearly user error and/or bad batteries but still, funny.

And 81w is right for a .13Ω coil, .13Ω*25a=3.25v, 3.25v*25a = 81w unless my math is off somewhere (a=v/Ω, a*v=w)
 

Wingsfan0310

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Seems like a lot of people are confusing input limit (25 amps is reasonable) with output limit (25 amps is ridiculous for a dual 18650 mod -doesn't matter whether it's wired in series or parallel). The chip should be stepping down the voltage and stepping up the current (you can have a 40-45 amp output with a 25 amp input).

Lets look at the input side - 8.4V at 25 amps is 210 watts. That is what the chip has to work with minus loses from it's inefficiency (most chips are 90% + efficient), so let's say it has it has 180-200 after losses. The chip should then be able to take that power and step up or down voltage and do the inverse of that with current (depending on the resistance of the load and power level set by the user), never affecting the input current. Why the chip has a 25 amp limit on it's output is beyond me. It's either limited by the design of the chip or a programming error imo.

PS As an example, DNA200 chips have a 23 amp input limit and a 45 amp output limit. Voltage is stepped down to increase the output current.

Cheers,
Steve
 
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Vapomizer

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The Cuboid has a 25A OUTPUT limit indeed which makes it totally useless as a HIGH POWERED device for builds that actually need 100W+, this works the same for ALL RX chip mods with series battery configuration, including the new VapeForward VaporFlask Mods made by Wismec, the only RX chip mod that does not have this limit is the eleaf iStick TC100W because it has batteries connected in parallel but the mod is currently limited to a max 100W.

EDIT: the eleaf iStick TC100W is also limited to 25A output!

I think this is a ridiculous limit and is a misadvertised one, they should clearly state in the spec sheets of these devices that it is limited to 25A and 9V output so users would know what to expect,

I believe this decision is a cost saving one not for safety issues, the controller can very easily take the 25A 8.4V battery output and BOOST the amperage to 35-40A easily with a low battery cutoff protection to prevent people from blowing their faces off, this would have been a much more reasonable design, but the controller chip would maybe cost more if designed and manufactured in this fashion.

The bad news is, this limit is a hard lock on the chip and is not achieved by software, so future firmware updates will not increase that limit, it is what it is and many buyers got burnt by this ...
 
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rivaper

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new guy here and was searching for answers and it seems I found it. I have a cuboid and crown tank which are awesome together but decided I wanted to try the tfv4 and with a .15 quad coil it would not go above 100 watts, I thought it was broke. can you guys give me some suggestions to get more out of this new tank, even at 100 watts it doesn't perform as good as the crown at 73 watts as far as flavor, thank
 

Wingsfan0310

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The best advice I can give you is either use a different mod or a higher ohm coil. It's not going to output over 25 amps.
Watts = ohms x amps^2 so a .15 coil is going to top out at around 94 watts with a 25 amp output limit. Wish I had better choices for you.
Ohms-Law-Formula-Wheel_zpscjcwg7p5.png


Cheers,
Steve
 

rivaper

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what should I be looking for in a different mod, I am pretty new to vaping, only had a k-box mini before this but its been 8 days without a smoke using this and I love it, went 4 months last year before I slipped up. Not afraid of buying another mod, just don't want to make another mistake, and wouldn't mind having 2 mods to switch between. I mean I have about 75 juices because I keep trying everything to find the right one and I finally found that.
 

JERUS

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Yup, that's exactly why people are complaining. It kind of kills the reason regulated mods are good. Good news, is the TFV4's Dual Clapton Coil .3Ω coil is pretty damn solid too. Right at 100w is where I keep it and I'd say it's better flavor than the quad coil (thicker vapor) and nearly as much vapor production. With the .3Ω coil you should be able to go well above that with the 25amp limit.
 

Wingsfan0310

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what should I be looking for in a different mod, I am pretty new to vaping, only had a k-box mini before this but its been 8 days without a smoke using this and I love it, went 4 months last year before I slipped up. Not afraid of buying another mod, just don't want to make another mistake, and wouldn't mind having 2 mods to switch between. I mean I have about 75 juices because I keep trying everything to find the right one and I finally found that.
I agree with Jerus, the TFV4 has quite a few different coils to choose from. You can use the formula to see what increasing resistance will do for your power output. Keep in mind it has a 25 amp output limit and I believe a 9v output limit as well.

Now for what you should be looking for in a mod if you want to use low resistance (say .1-..2 ohms). I would look for a dual 18650 mod that outputs 45 amps. The IPV5 seems to be a pretty good mod that can be had for a decent price (I've seen them for ~$50).

I'm not telling you it's necessary to buy a new mod, you can work around the one you have by increasing the resistance of the coil. By increasing your resistance to .3 ohms, your power output should max out around 185 watts. 25 x 25 x .3 = 187.5.
 

rivaper

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thanks, I just almost pulled the trigger on a snow wolf 200 but I will also check out the ipv5
 

JERUS

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Yup, exactly, you got plenty of coil options with both tanks (pretty sure the Crown has a .25 and .5 SS coil, which can be used in TC or power mode).

As for mods if you want a very high powered mod the Wismec RX200 (i think that's what it's called) is a nice 3 battery mod that should be able to do whatever you need. Another one that's growing in popularity as a "top dog" is that Hohm Wrecker G2, Kanthal TC is pretty neat. Personally if I were looking for a 200w mod I'd be going with that RX200 though, but I stick more around 100w, I have some builds where I'm up at 150, but 125 is generally where I find the best flavor, beyond that the flavor goes while the clouds grow for my experience.

I know the Vapeflask or whatever it is also has a 25amp limit. It's a silly design, but probably some mass produced cheap chip they're using. Just read up on whatever you buy and see if it can actually push the power you want. I used the Quad coil on my Sigelei 150w and Xcube II and it was fine though I know the Xcube did cap out as I approached the 180w limit on some of my lower resistance builds (basically there's a cap though I haven't taken the time to nail it down as it was beyond what I needed).
 

rivaper

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thanks, now that I narrowed it down. The tfv4 seems like a good tank I just need a mod that will give the .15 coils I have a work out to get some good flavor. I am having the problem with the crown of going throu coils because it seems I need to burp it after one or two hits. I read about this issue here to, but it does give good flavor. if the snow wolf 200 can handle the .15 coils in the tfv4 then I am game with that.
 

Wingsfan0310

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I use DNA200 mods, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend a new vaoer go in that direction. I love mine but most use Lipo batteries, have a ton of customization options, but also require some setup. I would also say there strong suit is temperature control. Since that's all I use, they are right up my alley. Good luck and Happy Vaping!

Cheers,
Steve
 

JERUS

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thanks, now that I narrowed it down. The tfv4 seems like a good tank I just need a mod that will give the .15 coils I have a work out to get some good flavor. I am having the problem with the crown of going throu coils because it seems I need to burp it after one or two hits. I read about this issue here to, but it does give good flavor. if the snow wolf 200 can handle the .15 coils in the tfv4 then I am game with that.
@raymo2u I know this guy has both the full size and mini, I figured since I don't own one and only know it by reputation I'd toss his name to see if he can confirm it's possibilities. Though I'm sure he'll promote the Hohm Wrecker G2, it does sound like a badass mod, but just a bit more expensive and if you're not going to use the features that make it better than the rest, well what's the point?
 

raymo2u

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IF your not used to dealing with menu's and settings and like a more streamline approach the Snow Wolf is your man, its one of my daily drivers and its a hell of a workhorse. If you are a geek like me and like to tinker grab the Hohm Wrecker G2, its a pretty amazing rig and has some unique features that are the first of its kind.
The TFV4 Fullsize I would tip my hat towards, you WILL need that capacity, or you better check your tank often. I have burned many coils without noticing Ive already ripped through the juice in the tank! Be Careful with the Mini if thats your option.

The Snow Wolf can fire down to .05 in Power Mode and TC, the Hohm Wrecker can fire down to .007 in both TC and power..both are great buys, I bought both :)
 

rivaper

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thanks, just looked at the hohm wrecker, that's insane. I might get one if I can find a reputable place to buy from, thanks everyone
 

yasaboss

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you should look at the reveiws on the Ωwrecker before spending that much on a mod that supposedly does tc with kanthal. If you build the cuboid around .37 your good for its advertised watts. Laisimo L1 looks pretty dope to for tc
 

rivaper

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I read a lot of good reviews so far for the hohm wrecker g2, and at 130.00 that's not bad. I mean the shop around here just sold me the cuboid for 79.99, I know now I got ripped off so for a few dollars more for a mod that can run my .15 coils from my TSV4 and anything else I decide to try in the future really isn't bad. I wish I would've know about this sight sooner, would've saved me time and money.
 

yasaboss

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Sorry you got burned when I was new and not knowing internet prices vs bm it's a huge price difference. You should watch multiple reveiws on it on YouTube, the g2 is not all what's it cracked up to be especially for $130 now days. Good luck and what ever keeps ya off the smokes is awesome
 

rivaper

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Thanks, shops around here really burn you sometimes. I don't exactly know which one I might get next, the snow wolf is also a contender, I was looking at the x cube II but two other people advised me there is better for around the same price. I just want a mod that can run the tsv4 with the .15 coils above the 100 watts the cuboid will do with them. Thanks.
 

Wingsfan0310

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Take a look at an IPV5. It has an output limit of 45 amps. They are on sale here for $50 but are unfortunately currently out of stock. Here's the link if you want to check them out. Seems like a lot of mod for the money.
 

yasaboss

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Maybe the vt 200 or the hcigar200, artic dolphin210, ipv5, panzer dna200 or rx200($50) many more of you're looking a tc mod.
 

rivaper

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wow, that ipv5 was a good deal...to bad they are out of stock. I was looking at the rx200 but I thought I read somewhere that they use the same chip as the cuboid, if that's the case then I would be in the same boat with my wattage only topping at 100 with the .15 coils like the cuboid does.
 

Wingsfan0310

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Maybe the vt 200 or the hcigar200, artic dolphin210, ipv5, panzer dna200 or rx200($50) many more of you're looking a tc mod.

I love all of my DNA200's (Hotcig DX200 with the 2 x 18650 battery compartment is what I'm using right now). I also have the Hcigar VT200, Lavabox, and DNA200 Reuleaux. I was hesitant to suggest them because I'm under the impression he is a new vaper. I think maybe the setup might be a tad much for a new guy. I could be wrong though.

Left to Right Hotcig DX200 (with the standard 3s 900mah Lipo), Hcigar VT200, Volcano Lavabox (Not pictured Reuleaux DNA200 that uses 3 x 18650). All the ones pictured are using 3s Lipo packs.
IMG_20151219_132603_zpsgpdkrm7u.jpg
 

rivaper

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Thanks again, looks like I might be searching for a dna 200, any ideas where the best price is on these. I will also need another charger, mine only hold 2 batteries.
 

yasaboss

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True maybe something simple as a kangertech tc box, or the rx would be far more simple than messing with the escribe and stuff on DNA devices
 

yasaboss

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I myself am searching for a new tc mod preferably with dual 18650, as I havnt ventured into tc of my own yet. Really love the laisimo L1
 

Wingsfan0310

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Im sorry I meant the Reuleaux DNA200
It seems like it's sold out at all the places that had good deals on it atm. I usually check Vapecraweler to check prices on things before buying. I got mine for $113 and change on a great deal from Ecig.com. I just checked and they don't even have it listed anymore.

Cheers,
Steve

PS I'll look around (after the 2nd period of the Wings vs Senators game I'm watching :D) and if I see a good deal, I'll send you a PM or post it here. I'm not to confident I will at this time - like I said it's sold out at a few places I already looked for you.
 

rivaper

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thanks, I have been looking also, I found the IPV5 at a decent price so that might be a better option for me, the DNA 200 is more with the cost of batteries and charger I would need.
 

Wingsfan0310

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thanks, I have been looking also, I found the IPV5 at a decent price so that might be a better option for me, the DNA 200 is more with the cost of batteries and charger I would need.
It will be quite a bit more. The IPV5 will do everything you want atm. Like I said earlier, it's a lot of mod for the money. It uses Yihi's second best chip (IMO Evolv and Yihi make the best chips).

PS The best deal I found for the Reuleaux is $149.95 at VapeNW shipped with either 3 LG HE4's or Samsung 25R's included. Not a great deal, but the best I could find. I really think you will like the IPV5!
 

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