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Kanger's New Stainless Steel SSOCC Head Rebuild Possible?

Discussion in 'Factory replacement heads and coils' started by Vapomizer, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Hello Everyone,

    I got Kanger's New TopTank Nano (Subtank Version 3 With Top filling) that came with the new Stainless Steel SSOCC coil head ...

    I have been searching a lot if it is possible to rebuild the new SSOCC coil head, is it possible? have someone done it so far? if so then how?

    If someone can provide information on how to rebuild that new rounded SSOCC coil head, what type of material to use? how many wraps? spaced or not? and how to do the whole thing over all that would be great.

    This will be my first DIY coil build so any details will be appreciated

    I am using that with a 3.7v non-TC battery and aim for the same 0.5 Ohm that the original coil came with

    Alternatively i can just purchase the old squared Kanthal OCC (the vertical or horizontal ones) so that i can use it for coil rebuilding if it turns out that SSOCC head is not rebuild-able at this point.

    RBA head is not a choice in my case because it does not fit in the Nano tank!

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Anyone? At least even a tip? ;)
     
  3. Ramsay Bolton

    Ramsay Bolton Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    No experience rebuilding a SSOCC head, but....

    Note: Aftermarket not manufactured by Kangertech

    Replacement Nano RBA Coil Head for SUBTANK Clearomizer (Qty:1) = $3.22


    https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10012200/3806801-replacement-nano-rba-coil-head-for-subtank


    Replacement Nano RBA Coil Head for SUBTANK Clearomizer (Qty:5) = $12.62

    https://www.fasttech.com/products/3007/10012200/3806800



    Code: XMAS takes of 5% until the end of the month

    Only caveat is that you may have to wait 2-4 weeks for your package to arrive.


    -
     
  4. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The Top filled tank i have can carry 3.2ml of juice not 1.5ml (it is the American edition even though i bought it in Europe) 3.2ml is the advertised capacity but i can actually only fill it with about 2.7ml.

    I found the included SSOCC wire and head to be quite durable, i been heavily vaping on it for about 2 weeks and it is still holding up, wicks very well even with 100% VG juice with these two holes, produces amazing vapor with good flavor, so it is actually better than Kanthal in all departments.

    I found a 316L Stainless Steel Wire (10m/spole) in a Local store comes in 24, 23 and 20 AWG

    Now the problem is that the battery i have can only go down to 0.4 Ohm so i need to build a 0.5+ Ohm Coil with that wire.

    I have so many unknown factors to reach this target of DIY vertical SS coil that fits the SSOCC shell and provide 0.5+ Ohm resistance

    1- What wire gauge to buy?
    2- How many wraps the wire should be?
    3- What diameter is the drill bit that i am going to wrap the coil on?
    4- Should the coil be spaced or not?
    5- Will i be able to re-build the SSOCC shell?

    The only way for me to answer these questions is to try to reverse engineer the current SSOCC i have, get the coil out, estimate wire gauge, number of wraps, diameter and if it is spaced or not, do a few test wraps and measure resistance until i can achieve the 0.5 Ohm target since SS resistance seems to be way lower than Kanthal with the same parameters.

    Anyone can help answer even some of these questions/unknown factors and then i can complete the rest of the build by reverse-engineering the current coil head would be nice.

    At the end i can make a rebuild video or log so that others can repeat the process, since the end result i think will be much better than building the old square head with Kanthal!
     
  5. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Steam Engine is very helpful all i need to do is to find out the coil diameter and it seems that with a 316L 24 AWG i would need from 8 to 10 wraps to reach 0.5 Ohm coil
     
  6. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Can you let me know which device you are getting good results with SS in TC with?

    I have got two different brands of 316L, some 317L, and on my DNA200's it is pretty sub par compared to NI or TI. The profiles evolv created for the Efusion are terrible with the 316L and 317L, I did find a CSV that works better and am using that, but so far, I have gone back to TI(The Efusion one created by Evolv on the efusion, and the steam engine TI CSV on my others)

    One of the 316L is from a hardware type store 26 gauge, the other is from Crazy wire intended for vaping. They both seem the same though performance wise, so I guess are the same, or very similar alloys.

    If you have a DNA 200, and are using that, would you mind sending me the CSV? If not, could you let me know which mod you are using? I am collecting at the moment so another dual battery mod would be nice for the collection, ESPECIALLY if it does SS well. The EVIC VTC mini is OK for single coils, but not with anything more.

    I want something that will work good with SS.I have ordered some standard 316 SS instead of 316L to see if that works any better-as I would like to use SS due to then not getting confused which of my tanks/drippers are set up with NI200 or TI, and can use them in power mode also.

    Thanks, Conan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
  7. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    conanthewarrior i am not using SS in TC mode, instead i am using it as an alternative to Kanthal in power mode for better durability and enhanced flavor, so i can not help in the CSV department.

    I predict that an eVIC VTC dual battery mod is in the works and will come to market soon, i am waiting for such device myself and will buy it as soon as it comes out i suggest you wait a little for an enhanced SS/TC device, why would you want to use SS instead of Ti by the way?


    Jim_MDP i think that the stock factory SSOCC coil is wrapped that much by looking at it from the top it seems like a long contact coil with many wraps, i will soon pull it out and check how is it wrapped exactly
     
  8. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Wait, all this planning and you haven't even taken the atty apart yet?

    If you're talking about the new round SSOCC .05 ohm attys with the red grommet, that's going to be a miserable experience for you, especially considering it will be your first coil rebuild.

    I couldn't even get the coil out clean. Reassembling the wire made me think that the ID is 4mm with 8 wraps. The wire is .36mm which puts it at 27 gauge. Approx 14.5mm of wire. Here's my reaction after taking that coil out:
    "Looks like I'll be rebuilding this horizontally."

    There's some sort of cotton bacon on the outside of the coil, covering the holes. I told my B&M guy about the challenge/impossibility of rebuilding this thing, and he just shook his head. The conversation steered to conspiracy-theory territory... that Kanger is doing everything it can to keep people from rebuilding their coils. I think I'm up to six or seven different versions of their stupid attys, and each subsequent version is tougher than the next.

    I haven't looked on the YouTubes to see whether anyone's done these SSOCC versions yet. I have Ti coming from China, and will eventually give it a couple attempts vertically, just so I can tell everyone I failed. (Now watch there's a really simple solution and I'm overreacting.)

    If I have this right, you'll have to space the coils, no matter if you use it in TC or not. Could be wrong. Not really thinking about these things until the Ti shows up. My wife has been vaping on her Nebox/RBA a lot, and I just gave her about 30 rebuilt attys for her other units. So I bought myself some time.

    Hope this helps. Probably not.
     
  9. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yes i have not taken it apart yet, why would i take a stock factory coil apart when it is still performing excellent? i am planning for the replacement before it fails, so once it fails, i know what i will replace it with, and have the material ready for the Job :)

    To find the ID accurately i will insert a few drill bits before i actually get it out, i will also inspect spacing before getting it out and messing it up in the process, but if according to your calculations, if 4mm ID is accurate then all i need is 8 wraps with a 24 AWG 316L wire to reach around 0.5 according to Steam Engine, the "thinnest" wire i can obtain from a local store here is 24 AWG i am not sure if that will fit inside or if it will provide worse airflow than stock.

    I have searched all over Youtube and in Google in general and no one has any rebuild tutorial for that shell or even talks about it, this is the first thread about this subject on the internet.

    I think i will build a spaced one since all people seem to experience better results with tightly spaced SS, so the challenges are to insert the rebuilt coil back into the shell with the "cotton blanket/bacon" wrapped around it and with enough wraps to exceed 0.4 Ohms :)

    Seems like a lot of stuff to experiment with, so if i failed to rebuild that rounded shell, i will just use the 316L 24 AWG in the standard Kanger shell (the traditional squared cube shell horizontal or vertical)

    The only challenge is that with the 24 AWG wire i have to do at least 8 wraps to exceed 0.4 Ohms and i am not sure if that will be too long to fit in a Kanger standard shell!

    Your post was super helpful indeed .. thanks for it
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
  10. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    After doing some reading on the VOCC Ver. 2 atty it seems impossible to rebuild vertical due to the fact that it has a unified shell body, or at least very tightly press-fitted that it is impossible to remove

    Now it seems that the easiest options to rebuild coils for the Subtank Nano is to build verticals in the original OCC Ver.1 with the easily removable top part or to do horizontals in either the VOCC Ver.2 or the SSOCC Ver.3 without taking any of the parts apart

    So i will just make the vertical build in the original OCC ver.1

    The only problem/challenge remains is

    1- With the original OCC Ver.1 has smaller wicking holes that is not so good with max. VG juices, i see a YouTube video of a guy drilling these holes wider but that is one extra step i am not willing to attempt

    2- In either case if i will build Verticals or Horizontals in any of the shells, if i use Kanthal 5 wraps Horizontal coil its resistance would rise to over 1 Ohm and if i use Horizontal SS with 5 wraps its resistance would tank to below 0.4 Ohms ... the only option for me to reach right resistance of 0.5 Ohm is to use vertical SS 24 AWG with 8 Wraps

    Any suggestions on how to get around 0.5 Ohms in either Vertical or Horizontal with either material SS or Kanthal?

    Thanks
     
  11. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I think she used hers for two weeks. Can't figure out how. Her other attys, original or rebuilt, would last a day and a half, tops. Very surprised. The RBA rebuilds are lasting a long time too. It HAS to be the coil... spaced wraps, not Kanthal. But I have no evidence to prove that. Just a theory.

    I guess this shouldn't be surprising. But considering how many bazillions of parts are available for everything, it is a little.

    One thing about Kanger attys... they build them with pieces that don't look like they come apart. But many times they do. I had to sacrifice a few of each version to figure them out. I had thoughts on how to rebuild vertically on the SSOCC, but won't waste the space on that now.

    [Reads this, laughs]
    OK. Need an inventory of your stuff:
    --Atty types and amount of each. Line up one of each type, take a photo and post it. Make sure the tiny holes of that one version are visible.
    --Wire/wicking in your possession, or wire/wicking you've already ordered. Don't include wish-list products.
    --Any Kanger things you own aside from the Nano.
    --Tools that you'll be using for your rebuilds. Mention an ohm reader/multimeter if you have one. Photo might be easiest.
     
  12. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    My SSOCC has been pushing two weeks and still vapes like day one, it seems like SS is much more durable than Kanthal


    There is an aftermarket part mentioned in this thread but i still feel that it will take up most of the space in the Nano tank leaving little for juice so i think i will stick to rebuilding with stock attys


    I would like to know those thoughts even if you would like to post in a private message as i would really like to rebuild that SSOCC atty

    I really looked so hard on any post about rebuilding SSOCC but there are none, i only found a long post of attempting rebuilding the VOCC Ver.2 and the conclusion is that it is a nightmare or almost impossible to take apart and build verticals in it, at least more hassle than it should be, they ended up recommending building in the original OCC Ver.1


    - For Kanger stuff i only got the Nano Subtank with one SSOCC head and one Ver.1 OCC head

    - I did not order any wires/wicking material yet until i find out the right stuff to order, but i have many available in my local store, 1) All kanthal types/gauges AND 2) Stainless Steel 316L 24, 23 and 20 AWG with 26 and 27 AWG coming after the holidays

    - I have all the needed tools, drill bits, pliers, clippers, lots of screw driver sizes, and of course a multimeter, any tool missing i can buy from a hardware store 10 minutes away from me


    My target is to be able to build 0.5 Ohm coil for the Subtank Nano with any material, and in any shell, SS material in SSOCC shell is preferred due to the durability, better flavor and vapor, the wider wicking holes in the SSOCC and the smaller the atty's overall size, leaving much space for juice, but i am ready to compromise, like for example building in the original OCC shell, using Kanthal or doing horizontal builds, it is just too expensive to buy the stock factory coil heads, and if i will have to go this route i will just not use the Nano tank anymore

    Thanks in advance :)
     
  13. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Headlng to work, but real quick...

    I'll chew on this a bit, and maybe crowbar in some time to start playing around tonight/before Christmas/before my Ti shows up. Will keep you updated.
     
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  14. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Jim_MDP likes this.
  15. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Deleted due to strange stuff going on when I follow links posted here .
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  16. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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  17. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The currently advertised 3.2ml Toptank (the US version as the EU version is advertised as 1.9ml only) can only hold an absolute maximum of exactly 2.7ml of juice with the rounded SSOCC placed inside, i think it will hold even less juice with the traditional squared OCC head inside, rendering it impossible to use that after-market RBA as the amount of space left for juice after that will make it impractical to use.

    The best of all worlds is to complete the SSOCC Stainless Steel rebuild that LostHasher started with a vertical stainless steel coil, and proper wicking, this will preserve the current space of 2.7ml (when top filled), provide around the factory 0.5 Ohm resistance with 8 wraps of 26 AWG SS wire
     
  18. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Correct

    Actually, the best scenario is having enough money to keep buying them retail in 5 packs. But where's the fun in that?
     
  19. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I like tinkering more than i like vaping, would be so boring to just buy retail coils, also with the price of two 5 coil sets i can just buy the Subtank mini with RBA and a lot of wire/cotton that would last me a year or so :)
     
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  20. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    you realy keep a tank that long ?
     
  21. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Not necessarily, it is just a cost estimation, you can buy lots of wires and wicking material for the cost of one factory coil pack, but why not? If a tank is working properly and not broken or anything why would i not keep it?
     
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  22. conanthewarrior

    conanthewarrior Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I've got tanks approaching ten months that I still use regularly- why throw it out if they still work great :S (I know this was a reply to someone else, but wondered why keeping a tank that long is bad)

    EDIT: Sorry, 8 months. But I will continue to use my old tanks, along with my new tanks for as long as they function-if I enjoyed it when I first got it, I can still enjoy it now and in the future :)
     
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  23. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    My RDA is three years old.

    (I haven't admitted that on VU yet, and I wouldn't have, but I got a new one TODAY. Vaping like a biiiiiig booooyyy.)
     
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  24. Ramsay Bolton

    Ramsay Bolton Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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  25. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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  26. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Well it could be moded to fix some of the problems it has . I was just wondering if it would fit .
     
  27. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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  28. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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  29. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Thats strange all links do it . Is this site spying on us ?
     
  30. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Since share a sale is an online marketing site, I'm assuming FastTech is tracking hotlinks. (?)
     
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  31. James

    James Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    It only seems to do it when I post on this board .
     
  32. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    This is not spying, the board appears to be using an affiliate script, to embed their share a sale affiliate code to links posted so that they make a commission every time someone buys a product via a link posted here, it is a common practice i think, they need to make money somehow to support the board, it would be good though if they are transparent about it
     
  33. dre

    dre Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I dunno if anyone said this yet but the new ssocc coils are NOT SS only the case is. The wire is nichrome with ni200 legs to achieve the .5+ ohm rating

    Sent from my Droid Turbo 2 using Tapatalk
     
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  34. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    How can it be marked as "SS" OCC and not have a stainless steel wire? the thing is that, was this designed to work on SS TC mode profiles properly? i use it in Power mode but i wonder about being used with SS profile in the eVIC VTC for example while not being Stainless Steel at all?
     
  35. dre

    dre Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Take it apart and you'll see its nichrome. When they say SS they mean the while coil case is now SS instead if brass with chorme plate. Kanger said so themselves somewhere. Just send them a email and see for yourselves.

    Sent from my Droid Turbo 2 using Tapatalk
     
  36. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Exactly, i didn't mean to question dre's identification of the wire type, i was wondering if SSOCC would TC properly on eVIC VTC or DNA 200 Stainless Steel profiles and it seems from what Jim_MDP is reporting that it does not! so what the hell is the SSOCC meant for if not made to work in TC mode? can someone explain that? anyone tried this atty with Kanger's newly released TC mods? and what profile does it uses? does it have Stainless Steel mode?

    Seems like Kanger is doing pretty confusing stuff lately!
     
  37. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    That is just about right

    0.5 ohm Clapton Kanthal (kanthal is for standard VW devices)

    0.15 ohm Nickel (nickel is for temperature control devices)

    0.2 ohm Nichrome (nichrome is for standard VW devices)

    0.5 ohm Nichrome

    1.2 ohm Nichrome

    1.5 ohm Nichrome

    a whole discussion about that here https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic...8y/confused_about_the_new_kanger_ssocc_coils/

    a store listing the correct specs http://sweet-vapes.com/kanger-cylinder-occ-coil-subtank-nebox.html

    SSOCC in Ni 200 http://www.kangeronline.com/products/nickel-ssocc

    If Kanger calls it "Nickel SSOCC" then the "SS" must stand for the housing material not the wire!

    This means that ALL SSOCC CAN NOT be used in TC mode except for the 0.15 Ohm Ni 200 verions

    Also judging by the performance of these Nichrome vertical coils, it looks like Nichrome is much more durable than Kanthal because these things last FOREVER!
     
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  38. dre

    dre Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Also nichrome doesn't rust like kanthal does.

    Sent from my Droid Turbo 2 using Tapatalk
     
  39. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    A downside of Nichrome is that is it a Nickle-Chromium wire, both are known to release carcinogens (cancer causing) chemicals when heated up to orange, Nickle is linked to lung cancer and Chromium releases Chromium Hexavalent.

    It gets a low safety ratings according to this page https://vaporreporter.wordpress.com/tag/stainless-steel-wire/

    Few Questions:

    1- Why didn't Kanger or any other manufacturer use SS wires instead since they seem to provide most of the benefits without much of the side effects and they have low resistance, instead of using N80 with Ni200 legs?! (Joyetech latest CUBIS atty uses SS316 in its coil heads as well as Uwell Crown)

    2- Why is Kanthal the most popular wire choice of all with its obvious disadvantages? Rusts, no TC support, low durability, possibly carcinogenic?

    Maybe this is a topic of its own for another thread?
     
  40. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Not the same atty, but this video should help a lot. Thanks @m.w.baughman

     
  41. m.w.baughman

    m.w.baughman New Member

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    Did I post in your thread? Or did you just run across a place I posted it?

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
     
  42. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You had it elsewhere. Noticed it while ripping through new posts earlier.
     
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  43. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    That for sure is a very delicate way of rebuilding, the best disposable coil head rebuild i have seen, the techniques he uses for measuring, installing and wicking are top notch, the end result is factory quality

    BUT 6mm ID that is hugeeee, only good for ultra low resistance TC Ni and Ti wires, you can not Sub Ohm with a VW wire material on a 6mm ID either with Kanthal or stainless steel if you do 6 or 7 wraps on a 6mm rod with anything from 28 gauge and down to 24 you can never achieve a resistance below 1 Ohm, the max reasonable ID for power mode wires is from 3 to 4 mm, 5 to 6 wraps and you can stay below 1 Ohm, larger ID or wraps beyond 6 or 7 at the most will cause these coils to stay above 1 Ohm

    Is 3 to 4 mm ID too tight for vertical airflow? And will it leave a large gap inside the head which would require a lot of cotton to fill which could not wick well with max VG juice?
     
  44. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    3 or 4 mm won't be too tight. Think about the air hole for the newer Kanger RBA. Way smaller than that, and the air flow is fine in the devices I've tried them in.

    Regarding cotton... someone needs to prove me wrong that the current vertical coil is NOT 4mm. (For those of you unfamiliar with this drama, I accidentally mangled the coil of the single SSOCC I had available for "research." Sigh.)
     
  45. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I am waiting for my damn atty to degrade so that i can take it apart and measure the ID of the factory coil, keep your fingers crossed for it to die if it ever will! i have almost vaped 100ml of juice on it and it is still going strong! waiting on the first sign of degraded flavor or vapor to take the thing apart but it just does not want to do it, looks like it will last until the end of time LOL

    I will measure the ID of the coil by inserting different sizes drill bits into it until i get a match, if someone has a dead head already and can do it before me that would be nice!
     
  46. m.w.baughman

    m.w.baughman New Member

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    I did a twisted flattened 24g kanthal and got around .5

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
     
  47. Vapomizer

    Vapomizer Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You built that in an RDA? please check the thread's title and context, we are talking here about building a single round coil inside tiny disposable coil heads that would produce a decent Heat flux of (180-200 mW/mm²) with low wattage (20-30 W) and that means using 26g Kanthal/Stainless Steel/Nichrome single round coil at the most, please do the math again.

    Of course in an RDA and with a 100+W double battery Mod you can build huge thick double/twisted coils and have low resistance, but this does not apply to what we are trying to accomplish in this thread.

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  48. m.w.baughman

    m.w.baughman New Member

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    Yes I rebuilt it in a crown stock coil

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
     
  49. Lost

    Lost Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I just put twisted 28 gauge through Steam Engine. 3mm ID, 7 wraps, dual coil. Came out to an even .5 ohm. Going to drop them in my new RDA. Been trying to get this done for a week. I know the wire's a little thin, but I'm playing around to use up all my extra inventory.
     
  50. sleepyi

    sleepyi New Member

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    Old old thread but lately I've been trying to rebuild the ssocc coil heads and have succeeded in installing a vertical coil at a resistance close to 0.6ohms using 24g n80. The problem is that the wicking is very sensitive and by this i mean that it oversaturates itself and ends up leaking to the bottom. The oem coils in the ssocc are 4mm diameter and also comparing the occ heads to the ssocc heads, the ssocc's have greater intake airflow from the bottom
     

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