I am posting a link to a video that literally stopped me from building my first nickle coils. I got a snow wolf and wanted to try temp control and then stumbled upon this video. I would love to hear the rebuttle or even suporting claims. Any one have any? I know that the temp effects the release of certain chemicals but this video contests that even getting the nickle wet could leach nickle into the juice. He doesnt say he knows this for sure but that he has reason to hesitate on using nickle and that the company's making nickle coils dont have research to insure their safety. this HTML class. Value is Danger of Vaping with nickle (having trouble copying link to video) the video is titled danger of vaping with nickle and it is 14 min long
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Nickle Dangerous? vid
- Thread starter noahb82
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CurlyxCracker
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CurlyxCracker
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Also, Ni(CO) is released in the purity process to make 99.9% nickel.
Or to make any higher purity nickel.
We've been using ni200 specifically, in vaping, for years. He is correct it was referred to as "NR or Non-resistant wire.
The Ithaca used NR wire for the legs, for example. We'd essentially have to melt the metal to release any Ni(CO) that is potentially left.
Or to make any higher purity nickel.
We've been using ni200 specifically, in vaping, for years. He is correct it was referred to as "NR or Non-resistant wire.
The Ithaca used NR wire for the legs, for example. We'd essentially have to melt the metal to release any Ni(CO) that is potentially left.
If it's true, my balls are in serious trouble. All those spare coins in my pocket jingling around next to my sweaty sack on a hot July day.
Who knows, maybe he found the cause for prostate cancer in older men. Our sack hangs lower and we have more coin than the young men.
Who knows, maybe he found the cause for prostate cancer in older men. Our sack hangs lower and we have more coin than the young men.
CurlyxCracker
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It can "leech" while being repeatedly heated.
Stolen from Wikipedia " In the US, the minimal risk level of nickel and its compounds is set to 0.2 µg/m3for inhalation during 15–364 days.[73]"
I will say I don't taste nickel at all. I do get pretty good flavor from it. If this really stops you from vaping tc. Get some titanium wire, which has its own flaws.
Personally I like titanium over nickel, although I've only built 2 coils with it.
What I see here is a random dude in his living room, giving his uninformed opinion on bits and pieces he read on Wikipedia that he does not fully understand, and that he pieced together in his head. I mean, how credible is someone who asserts several times that aluminum is completely harmless, when in fact it isn't. Also, he seems to ignore completely the fact that base elements that may be harmless alone can be combined to create dangerous chemicals or alloys, and vice-versa.
In short, unless I read a scientific paper on the subject, or hear useful people like Farsalinos voice their concern about nickel, I'm not going to worry. Scientists add value to the discussion, random internet dudes don't.
In short, unless I read a scientific paper on the subject, or hear useful people like Farsalinos voice their concern about nickel, I'm not going to worry. Scientists add value to the discussion, random internet dudes don't.
CurlyxCracker
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Was just going to bring up aluminum...
It's been a controversial metal since 1965 at least.
I'm not going to say it's safe. I'll never state vaping is safe. Only safer. And I really don't believe that this one person who isn't a credible source for this information, is going to be the guy that's correct about these things. There are medical professionals involved in vaping, I'd tend to believe one of them would have been in an uproar about this when we used nr-r-nr wire.
CurlyxCracker
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Vape on! Seriously, once you go tc you don't go back
There is a huge difference with nr-r-nr setups: the nr sections don't get hot - or not very hot anyway. So if it is determined that nickel leach into the juice at an accelerated rate at high temperature, you'll find a lot more nickel in juice in atomizers with a pure nickel TC build than with traditional non-TC nr-r-nr builds.
I've used NR-R-NR wire in my Diver (rebuildable head for Carto Tanks) and made it myself also, with nickel wire.
CurlyxCracker
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That is true. I said it could possibly leech while being heated. That statement was geared to leeching by contact with coil alone.
The guy brings up questions that should be looked into, but until they are are nothing to panic about.
Vapers seem to suddenly get worried about every tiny potential once they quit smoking. They often make up ridiculous notions to get to that worry.
Vapers seem to suddenly get worried about every tiny potential once they quit smoking. They often make up ridiculous notions to get to that worry.
Nickel is safe up to 1000 µg/day on a average without vaping with nickel we take in 69 - 162 µg/day. I don't know how much we take in from vaping but until I see some scientific research and numbers based on vaping I will keep my tc crap to a minimum. I'm not all that satisfied with the whole tc thing anyhow.
CurlyxCracker
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That is consuming it via the digestive system. Not respiratory.
It did not detail either or. Still I would guess the numbers are still the same as it is speaking on what the body finds safe, not just the lungs or stomache. If anything Consumption by the digestive system would probably be safer than the respiratory being the digestive can help break things down. Either way, no matter how consumed it enter the blood and is distributed throughout the body.
Wow this thread has made one thing clear there isnt much in the way of actual research on the topic and everyone seems to fall in two camps the "its 100percent safe" or the "not sure so avoid it" groups. Which both sides make compeling points. As well as the "coins near my sweaty balls" argument, that seems valid also lol. I will for the moment resurve judgement and thank everyone to continue to post new info to this thread as you receive it. Thank you
Years ago to work we had to wear breathing apparatus when melting nickel if caught without it on you would be fired on spot. I would never vape anything using it. I was so surprised to see some were. I was going to buy a temp unit until I found out they were using nickel so decided to wait till u could use other safe metals, hopefully we will be able to use other metals soon.
CurlyxCracker
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We're talking nickel particulates build up in the lungs, low risk of inhalation is 0.2 micrograms/m^3 in a year. Significant greater risk inhaling than digestion.
Of course. Greater risk on the lungs when inhaled. I'm in no way indorsing the use of nickel wire.was just pointing out that it appeared easy to hit toxic levels being on a daily basis we can hit almost 1/6th of the toxic level without adding the use of nickel wire in our vaping. I do have one tank setup for tc but I almost never use it. It was mail just to see what it's all about. I find it to be a bit pointless. I like my vape hot as I can get and perfectly happy vaping at 100 watts with kanthal and controlling the temp with air flow if needed. Even with tc and nickel the temp of the vape isn't very accurate. It just seems very gimmicky and when you scale the pros and cons of tc and nickel the cons out weigh the pros regardless if it is only potentially or without doubt.
Titanium
Of course then there's a titanium dioxide risk. It's a dangerous kitchen if it aint't one thing it's another
CurlyxCracker
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I consider this either on par with or potentially on par with the dikeatones concern. Risk assessment you need to take on a personal level
CurlyxCracker
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I'm not sure on this. Haven't explored this. I know we've been using SS mesh for wicking, again for years and still do, well some do, I haven't used a genny in a long time. And that wick definitely gets hot. I'd have to look into it.
I choked on my drink everywhere, that was to funny...I am seriously worried about my balls now
CurlyxCracker
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I fall into neither. I'm in the group that loves temp control and will use ni200 or Ti g1. I definitely prefer temperature control over straight wattage. I'm not saying I don't use kanthal builds at all. I do, but more so than not it's a ni200 build (until i get Ti in). You're at least able to try it safely and go from there.
CurlyxCracker
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This was my point, especially for nickel carbonyl. You need to MELT it to release it. And melting it obviously would create nickel fumes.
We could see the fumes off the metal way before melting so not so sure about that.
CurlyxCracker
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I'd believe that would be NiS (Nickel Sulfide) which is still dangerous but wouldn't occur at standard vaping range 400-500°F especially while wet. The melting point of nickel is over 1000°F if I recall correctly.
Was this pure nickel for things like molding or mixing with other metals? Or purification process? Or something else?
Was melted in ingot form for selling
Problems would occur between 599°-797°+ F not in the vaping range as you have already explained.
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5150sick
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I used to be a welder and aluminum is the least safe of all the metals that are used in welding.
When it burns there is a bright green flame.
You have to wear all this extra gear for respiration when even dealing with it.
When I was learning the trade my instructor, a 30+ year welder just said "I wouldn't take a job that involved aluminum and if I were on a job site wee it came up I would lie and say I am not qualified to work with it"
That means he was so scared of the health risks he would rather not work that week before he took a job welding it.
This has nothing to do with vaping because we never get and metals to their. melting point.
What scares me the most about Ni200 coils is some asshole trying to make a buck selling them with a NON TC Mod.
I caught a guy on eBay from China selling subbox/subtank and Subtank Ni200 coils together as a kit.
I almost lost it on the guy especially when he replied to my warning with:
"I just spoke with Kanger Rep and he said Ni200 coils fit the subtank"
I'm like "Look asshole I don't give a fuck if the coil head fits on the tank or not. You are selling it in a kit with NON TC MODS!!!
people are going to buy this death kit from you and the Ni200 wire will melt no matter if wicked properly on not and your
customers will be inhaling melted nickel!"
After telling him to drop the ni200 coils from the kit or I will report all of his sales he switched them out with Kanthal coil heads.
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Ok so are you saying in a temp controled mod ni200 is safe in your opinion? I think there are two different concerns running through this thread, 1. That at x temp the nickle melts and released toxins and 2. That when heated in a liquid it leaches nickel into the juice. So welding def melts nickel so i think we all agree breathing melted nickel is bad. The question then becomes are temp controled units accurate in there readings and use and how much if at all does nickel leach into the liquid. And if so is it only at certain temps.
CurlyxCracker
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The snow wolf has some great reviews, I don't have one myself. But as far as accurate, I'd believe it is. I vape my tanks between 400-450 at most. I guarantee at those temp the wire will not glow. I don't advise actually advise not to use a dry fired ni200 coil. But to test and toss the coil, to put your mind at ease, try it. You won't see fumes at the above temp either.
No it won't, and no they won't. Where did you get that idea???
I vape Ni200 coils all the time in non-TC mods. So do other people I know. We've never "inhaled melted nickel" . Hell, Ni200 coils don't even melt when I dry-burn them red-hot, and it sure ain't gonna happen with a wet wick inside. That's just plain physics
Look, I enjoy a good scare story like the rest of us, but I think the vaping community has enough acceptance problems as it is, and doesn't need to fight yet another urban legend. Some fact-checking is needed before getting all worked up.
Here is a good blog link discussing Nickle concerns. I know it is a vendor's blog but it has good info
.http://www.wakeandvape.com/blog/regarding-nickel-concerns/
.http://www.wakeandvape.com/blog/regarding-nickel-concerns/
CurlyxCracker
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Good post
Generating a scare story that would hurt the vape community is not at all what this thread is for. First off a "scare story" implies nonsense designed to mislead. I started this thread not for anything but to try and get to the bottom of a possible health risk in using nickel wire. Reason being that their are very valid points on both sides of this debate. And to avoid discussing this because of its possible effects on the public image of vaping is silly. I hardly think trying to get accurate info on the safety of some thing i inhale into my lungs 200 times a day is starting an "urban legend".No it won't, and no they won't. Where did you get that idea???
I vape Ni200 coils all the time in non-TC mods. So do other people I know. We've never "inhaled melted nickel" . Hell, Ni200 coils don't even melt when I dry-burn them red-hot, and it sure ain't gonna happen with a wet wick inside. That's just plain physics
Look, I enjoy a good scare story like the rest of us, but I think the vaping community has enough acceptance problems as it is, and doesn't need to fight yet another urban legend. Some fact-checking is needed before getting all worked up.
I wasn't replying to you. Your concern is valid, 5150sick's isn't.
Anything can be abused to the point of it becoming dangerous.
However, unless you are allergic to nickel, it is perfectly safe to use in a temperature controlled device like any (real) DNA 40 based mod.
If you don't want to use nickel - don't use it. The choice is yours to make.
However, unless you are allergic to nickel, it is perfectly safe to use in a temperature controlled device like any (real) DNA 40 based mod.
If you don't want to use nickel - don't use it. The choice is yours to make.
5150sick
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So you vape non resistance wire in a non TC mod and you think this is a good idea?
I'm not talking about 22ga Ni200 wire I'm talking about stock Ni200 subtank coil heads.
What wattage are you vaping them at?
Whats it taste like when you get an accidental burnt hit?
I'm not talking about 22ga Ni200 wire I'm talking about stock Ni200 subtank coil heads.
What wattage are you vaping them at?
Whats it taste like when you get an accidental burnt hit?
5150sick
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I have seem a video from phil busardo.
Look at his Evic VT review.
The Evic VT jumped out of TC mode on him and he described it as the worst vaping experience it had ever had in his life.
He melts a WET wicked Ni200 coil to sludge in about 5 seconds in VW mode on cam.
Look at his Evic VT review.
The Evic VT jumped out of TC mode on him and he described it as the worst vaping experience it had ever had in his life.
He melts a WET wicked Ni200 coil to sludge in about 5 seconds in VW mode on cam.
Directly from http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp15-c1.pdf:
"People who are not sensitive to nickel must eat very large amounts of nickel to suffer harmful health effects. Workers who accidentally drank light-green water containing 250 ppm of nickel from a contaminated drinking fountain had stomach aches and suffered adverse effects in their blood (increased red blood cells) and kidneys (increased protein in the urine). This concentration of nickel is more than 100,000 times greater than the amount usually found in drinking water.
You may be exposed to higher levels of nickel if you work in industries that process or use nickel. You also may be exposed to nickel by breathing dust or fumes (as from welding) or by skin contact with nickel-containing metal and dust or solutions containing dissolved nickel compounds. "
Based upon this read put out by the CDC it seems to me that one must consume nickel to be poisoned by it.
Also, it is the fumes from molten nickel that is hazardous. From what I understand nickel coils are far from being molten.
OSHA does not recognize using nickel as a heating element as being something of a safety hazard.
NEXT...
"People who are not sensitive to nickel must eat very large amounts of nickel to suffer harmful health effects. Workers who accidentally drank light-green water containing 250 ppm of nickel from a contaminated drinking fountain had stomach aches and suffered adverse effects in their blood (increased red blood cells) and kidneys (increased protein in the urine). This concentration of nickel is more than 100,000 times greater than the amount usually found in drinking water.
You may be exposed to higher levels of nickel if you work in industries that process or use nickel. You also may be exposed to nickel by breathing dust or fumes (as from welding) or by skin contact with nickel-containing metal and dust or solutions containing dissolved nickel compounds. "
Based upon this read put out by the CDC it seems to me that one must consume nickel to be poisoned by it.
Also, it is the fumes from molten nickel that is hazardous. From what I understand nickel coils are far from being molten.
OSHA does not recognize using nickel as a heating element as being something of a safety hazard.
NEXT...
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CurlyxCracker
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Give this a read. Think it sums it all up fairly well.
I'll say again vaping isn't SAFE only SAFER than a traditional tobacco cigarette. No matter the coil.
Nicotine IS poison, it IS a drug. I could probably go without at this point but I like to get the benefits of nicotine.
There is a post on Wikipedia that states a nickel plated pan transferred to tomatoes at 88micrograms when cooked 10x. Our juice doesn't stay on the actual coil to be "cooked" or vaporized 10x. It's constantly is replaced. Even in a tank. Not to mention a little while after using the same coil it develops a buildup of things not vaporized, avoiding direct coil contact all together, instead contact with the things not vaporized stuck to the coil.
So what? What I'm saying is that the same coil in kanthal would have melted as well, and probably sooner too. Or in other words, the nickel coil didn't melt because it's nickel: it melted because the mod malfunctioned and dumped way too much power into it (probably, I haven't seen the video, and I'm not about to endure endless minutes of Busardo to find out which one it is).
Look, there are two good reasons why nickel won't melt any faster than kanthal:
- Nickel melts at 2651F. kanthal melts at 2732F. It's almost the same temperature.
- The resistance of a nickel coil INCREASES as it heats up. The resistance of a kanthal coil stays the same. As a result, at best, the nickel coil acts as a sort of poor man's power limiter, and at worst - on a mod that compensates for the increase in resistance in real time - it behaves exactly like a kanthal coil.
Simple physics and common sense make it obvious that, had Busardo's mod malfunctioned in VW mode, the same coil in kanthal would have failed exactly like the nickel coil has. You're creating irrational fears of nickel and implying that it poses a specific danger of melting catastrophically, when in fact the material is not to blame.
As for the concern that nickel might be leaching into the juice, that others have voiced, yes that is troubling. But it's a totally orthogonal issue.
Yes the choice is yours to make... of course the idea here is wanting ti use nickel to enjoy temp control but having safety concerns and wanting info.