Nickle Dangerous? vid

[Tim Vatic]

I played with nickel wire and TC for about a week and then I was over it.
Now I find out that Ni becomes very volatile at about 670º, that's its "Curie Point" and I believe that is why most TC devices have a 600º ceiling. That was very smart but the simple fact is we don't know if Nickel is producing hazardous emissions at lower temperatures also. Nickel is on the priority list of the EPA's hazardous substances. Kanthal is made of 3 elements that are all used in the kitchen and not on that list. We don't use Nickel in the kitchen for a reason. Now we recently found out you can get copperiedus or copper poisoning from simply eating out of a copper pot everyday but yea, EPA's top priority hazardous substance list... that's a warning enough for me to say screw it and just stick with kanthal but Right now....I'm pretty happy about being over TC. lol.

 

[wally]

We have toxic metals, plastics and woods that leach without adding heat what so ever so who is to say you have to add heat to nickel anyhow. You can take a penny drop it in an a aquarium a day later dead fish. Or handle lead to the touch and get sick. Some woods and plastics have the same results.

 

[Myk]

Now we recently found out you can get copperiedus or copper poisoning from simply eating out of a copper pot everyday but yea

Of course if you have a lack of copper it's a major problem too. Plenty of testing on copper pots use in beer brewing has been done and it's been found to not make it to the final product.

Likewise it seems popular to claim we don't use nickel in the kitchen by the scare mongers. But we do. We cook with it and we eat with it. We use it in our attys too. It is a common alloy in some stainless steel. I remember a clone that was tested to not be magnetic and so claimed that it must not be stainless steel by another self-appointed ignorant savior who didn't know not all stainless is magnetic, and that non-magnetic stainless just happens to have a high content of nickel. One of my big pots is one of those non-magnetic stainless steels.
I also remember a vaper panic over chromium in stainless wicks.

You know what else is on the EPA list? Nicotine. I guess we should all go back to smoking those extremely safe cigarettes without a care in the world.
The questions were raised. Let science answer.

 

[wally]

Actually my last job was to check stainless steal to separate from other materials and only once in a blue moon did you find it to be magnetic and if and when you found it, it was hard to too tell it was magnetic because it always had very very little magnetic pull.

 

[noahb82]

Of course if you have a lack of copper it's a major problem too. Plenty of testing on copper pots use in beer brewing has been done and it's been found to not make it to the final product.

Likewise it seems popular to claim we don't use nickel in the kitchen by the scare mongers. But we do. We cook with it and we eat with it. We use it in our attys too. It is a common alloy in some stainless steel. I remember a clone that was tested to not be magnetic and so claimed that it must not be stainless steel by another self-appointed ignorant savior who didn't know not all stainless is magnetic, and that non-magnetic stainless just happens to have a high content of nickel. One of my big pots is one of those non-magnetic stainless steels.
I also remember a vaper panic over chromium in stainless wicks.

You know what else is on the EPA list? Nicotine. I guess we should all go back to smoking those extremely safe cigarettes without a care in the world.
The questions were raised. Let science answer.

The fact that most of us smoked cigs and quit to switch to vape is exactly the same thinking that leads to this thread. We want to know which vape metal is the least toxic if at all. But if u read from the top down there are strong arguments on both sides. Lots of contrary opinions and even some plain contradictions. I would love science to answer but unfortunately for alot of situations like this one science doesnt answet until alot of people have already been harmed.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

I played with nickel wire and TC for about a week and then I was over it.
Now I find out that Ni becomes very volatile at about 670º, that's its "Curie Point" and I believe that is why most TC devices have a 600º ceiling. That was very smart but the simple fact is we don't know if Nickel is producing hazardous emissions at lower temperatures also. Nickel is on the priority list of the EPA's hazardous substances. Kanthal is made of 3 elements that are all used in the kitchen and not on that list. We don't use Nickel in the kitchen for a reason. Now we recently found out you can get copperiedus or copper poisoning from simply eating out of a copper pot everyday but yea, EPA's top priority hazardous substance list... that's a warning enough for me to say screw it and just stick with kanthal but Right now....I'm pretty happy about being over TC. lol.

The use of the we use in the kitchen isn't exactly valid while vaping. Inhaling something is completely different than eating off of it.
Aluminum IS NOT a safe metal, even if we us it in the kitchen.

 

[Myk]

The use of the we use in the kitchen isn't exactly valid while vaping. Inhaling something is completely different than eating off of it.
Aluminum IS NOT a safe metal, even if we us it in the kitchen.

Sure it is. Find me that science link to a problem with aluminum cooking pots. You won't find it. And when you do cook in it it gets oxidized which is extremely hard, as long as you don't sand that oxidation off it is highly unlikely to get anything into the food (this is another beer brewing test I know about).

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Sure it is. Find me that science link to a problem with aluminum cooking pots. You won't find it. And when you do cook in it it gets oxidized which is extremely hard, as long as you don't sand that oxidation off it is highly unlikely to get anything into the food (this is another beer brewing test I know about).

You believe aluminum is safe? Or just because we "use it for food" it's gotta be safe to inhale? I use salt while cooking/eating doesn't mean it's OK to drop some in my dripper.

Edit: Dikeatones are safe to eat. Not so much to inhale. Just because you use something in your kitchen, absolutely does not mean it's safe to vape.

 

[Myk]

You believe aluminum is safe? Or just because we "use it for food" it's gotta be safe to inhale? I use salt while cooking/eating doesn't mean it's OK to drop some in my dripper.

I asked you to find the science not what you believe. If we only required people to believe without science vaping would've been banned in 2008 or before.

Exactly what do you believe the danger would be for you to put some sodium chloride in your dripper? Perhaps you're afraid of improved lung function? http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drug-sodium_chloride_inhalation/article_em.htm

 

[CurlyxCracker]

I asked you to find the science not what you believe. If we only required people to believe without science vaping would've been banned in 2008 or before.

Exactly what do you believe the danger would be for you to put some sodium chloride in your dripper? Perhaps you're afraid of improved lung function? http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drug-sodium_chloride_inhalation/article_em.htm

Science of aluminum being a controversial metal since 1965? I'm asking you what exactly do you want proof of? That cooking in aluminum or storing food in it doesn't equate to its a safe metal to breath it in?

The salt, That's just something off the top of my head. Something I wouldn't do personally.

 

[Giraut]

[...]Exactly what do you believe the danger would be for you to put some sodium chloride in your dripper?[...]

Pure NaCl is okay - in fact, many juices contain it. I myself use it in the form of saline solution in my juice recipes.

However, ordinary table salt probably isn't so great: there are a lot of impurities in table salt. I wouldn't put it in my juices. I think that's what CurlyxCracker meant.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Also what did you want me to read?
This?
Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficult breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Tell your caregiver right away if you have:

chest pain, trouble breathing;a light-headed feeling, like you might pass out;swelling in your hands or feet;tiredness, muscle twitching;confusion, uneven heart rate, extreme thirst, increased or decreased urination, leg discomfort, muscle weakness or limp feeling.

Other common side effects may include a salty taste or slight burning or irritation in your mouth.

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

Or maybe this?
You should not use this medication if you have ever had an allergic reaction to sodium chloride.

To make sure this medicine is safe for you, tell your doctor if you have:

asthma;heart disease or high blood pressure;epilepsy;kidney or liver disease;migraine headaches;any type of edema (swelling);if you have recently had surgery; orif you are on a low-salt diet.

FDA pregnancy category C. It is not known whether sodium chloride inhalation is harmful to an unborn baby. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant or plan to become pregnant during treatment.

It is not known whether sodium chloride passes into breast milk or if it could harm a nursing baby. Tell your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.

Because to me, this seems like some risks may be involved here...

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Pure NaCl is okay - and in fact, many juices contain it. I myself use it in the form of saline solution in my juice recipes.

However, ordinary table probably isn't so great: there are a lot of impurities in table salt. I wouldn't put it in my juices. I think that's what CurlyxCracker meant.

Thank you. That is what I meant, take table salt and shake it into my dripper.

And since he posted the link saline MAY also have some risks in that regard. And yes being a DIYer I know a lot of people use saline solution.

 

[Giraut]

Thank you. That is what I meant, take table salt and shake it into my dripper.

And since he posted the link saline MAY also have some risks in that regard. And yes being a DIYer I know a lot of people use saline solution.

Well, living is a risk isn't it? Somehow I feel safer inhaling saline (or hell, nickel traces from my nickel coil) than the cocktail of poisonous shit I've smoked for 25 years.

In fact, I'm always amazed to see former smokers (most of us here, right?) getting so worked up about a few trace chemicals that might not be so great in their vape, when they've ruined their body for years with cigarettes, all the while doing their very best to ignore or rationalize what they were doing.

Me, I take vaping for what it really is: risk reduction, not risk-free.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Here's how unsafe aluminum is.
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/concerned-about-aluminum-dangers/
I can give you more. Inhaling something is different than eating or drinking from it.
Again I bring up dikeatones, you can eat them, but sure is quite the uproar about inhaling them.
I don't claim to be a rocket surgeon. But I do know some things about some things. I'm not going to pretend I know or look up the ratio of aluminum in kanthal but every other week we're getting more and more powerful mods. At what point are we inhaling the fumes that attack the nervous system? Yes aluminum fumes attack the nervous system. Even some of the extreme high doses why intake via the digestive system

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Well, living is a risk isn't it? Somehow I feel safer inhaling saline (or hell, nickel traces from my nickel coil) than the cocktail of poisonous shit I've smoked for 25 years.

In fact, I'm always amazed to see former smokers (most of us here, right?) getting so worked up about a few trace chemicals that might not be so great in their vape, when they've ruined their body for years with cigarettes, all the while doing their very best to ignore or rationalize what they were doing.

Me, I take vaping for what it really is: risk reduction, not risk-free.

Exactly! I think I said it earlier in this thread, I'll never refer to vaping as safe. Only safer than combustion paper and leaves with the list of known deadly chemicals.
Nothing you inhale, hell in most places even the air is safe. Some things are just safer than others. Shit, I vape known dikeatone juice sometimes, I love my Custard, still feel it's safer than a cigarette or the pack a day I smoked.
I don't think the OP should be frightened not to try TC. I love it, it's my preferred way to vape at this point. Flavor is great. I like the titanium coils better (only built one from the wire in an evic cl-ti head) and until I get more Ti, I'm using ni200. Until I read a validated paper or study released by a reputable source telling me not to, I'll continue to do so

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Last thing from me the digestive system has a lot more "filters" than your lungs. A lot more.

 

[Myk]

Real science isn't controversial for long. I want proof of aluminum transfer and then harm from that aluminum in cooking.
I could go along with aluminum being questionable with inhalation. Most metals are. The issue is dose. Remember the titanium dioxide added in the eliquid? That was a real issue because of the dose.
Yes vaping is different and more akin to welding which puts kanthal at risk too (except metal isn't being melted like with welding). Actually everything in our vaporizors are a risk. We're breaking new ground. We're guinea pigs, the vast majority are voluntary because we know smoking is bad and we know we'd most likely smoke without vaping.

As long as we don't castrate vaping I'm OK with trying to make it safer. I don't want everyone running around pointing fingers at everything until there is nothing because they were able to make something up about it with FUD.

I inhale cadmium for work. I try to minimize it. I don't get too worked up when I work on a ring that surely has cadmium solder in it.

I also prefer titanium.
I get a break-in taste which I didn't get with nickel but after that's gone I like it better. I'll try to clean my wire better (I've taken to using a lighter on it which seems to help) to minimize whatever that taste is from.
I also know there's a risk of titanium dioxide with it.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Real science isn't controversial for long. I want proof of aluminum transfer and then harm from that aluminum in cooking.
I could go along with aluminum being questionable with inhalation. Most metals are. The issue is dose. Remember the titanium dioxide added in the eliquid? That was a real issue because of the dose.
Yes vaping is different and more akin to welding which puts kanthal at risk too (except metal isn't being melted like with welding). Actually everything in our vaporizors are a risk. We're breaking new ground. We're guinea pigs, the vast majority are voluntary because we know smoking is bad and we know we'd most likely smoke without vaping.

As long as we don't castrate vaping I'm OK with trying to make it safer. I don't want everyone running around pointing fingers at everything until there is nothing because they were able to make something up about it with FUD.

I inhale cadmium for work. I try to minimize it. I don't get too worked up when I work on a ring that surely has cadmium solder in it.

I also prefer titanium.
I get a break-in taste which I didn't get with nickel but after that's gone I like it better. I'll try to clean my wire better (I've taken to using a lighter on it which seems to help) to minimize whatever that taste is from.
I also know there's a risk of titanium dioxide with it.

How often do you cook at 600°?i recon to believe seldom or not at all. Some people feel the need to do it or close to it because they can. And it's know there's aluminum in things such as anti acids. My point is WE do consume aluminum, even in some water we drink. But our digestive system has starts digestion at the mouth to stomach acid to kidney to live even the intestine. The lungs don't have that. If we would I have the fumes it'd affect the body A lot faster. That's why pills and such act slower than something smoked. I disregard the kitchen statement for this reason. Nickel can be consumed at a far higher rate digested than what can be inhaling. The deposit either acumulates in the lungs or directly into blood cells that cross the heart and brain at a quicker rate than eating it. That's another reason why we the "it's kitchen is safe so vaping it is too or vise versa" is not a valid point.
Another example, smoking some pills with hit the brain far faster than taken orally. It's basically a straight stretch to the brain where as eating it it goes through the liver/stomach, kidney before it reaches the brain.

 

[VapingN252]

My first post was talking about nickel/titanium coil concerns. I feel a bit better after this thread. I absolutely love temperature control. I'd hate to give it up. I'm stuck on a middle ground.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

My first post was talking about nickel/titanium coil concerns. I feel a bit better after this thread. I absolutely love temperature control. I'd hate to give it up. I'm stuck on a middle ground.

Did get a bit off track. Kind of due to that video and some very inaccurate things said in. But does middle ground mean you at least try it? Forum posts sometimes do go of on some tangents. No real harm in trying it out. I imagine it is why you bought a temp control mod, eh?

 

[Myk]

How often do you cook at 600°?

I bake at 500°, no idea what I blacken fish at. But almost everything I own is cast iron. Or Stainless. I have aluminum but it is a beer pot. I don't think it's bad, it's just not sturdy enough.
I don't understand people who get temperature control to crank it up to extremes and defeat the purpose.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

I bake at 500°, no idea what I blacken fish at. But almost everything I own is cast iron. Or Stainless. I have aluminum but it is a beer pot. I don't think it's bad, it's just not sturdy enough.
I don't understand people who get temperature control to crank it up to extremes and defeat the purpose.

Yeah I'm between 400-450 on tanks and 400-500 for some rdas. Same with wattage mods just because you have a 260w mod does not mean you need to use 260w

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Yeah I'm between 400-450 on tanks and 400-500 for some rdas. Same with wattage mods just because you have a 260w mod does not mean you need to use 260w

I'm the restaurant I worked we did blackened tilapia at 350-400

 

[Myk]

Something to consider, DrF has had temperature controlled devices since October. I would think if he found something way out of line he would've mentioned it by now.

 

[Myk]

Yeah I'm between 400-450 on tanks and 400-500 for some rdas. Same with wattage mods just because you have a 260w mod does not mean you need to use 260w

I can't normally do lung hits, and normally don't. But with TC I can open my airflow and take a lung hit (good for increasing my nicotine levels), I get good clouds at 380°-425°.
I did test 500° to see if it would give a dry hit but it looked like it was pushing too close before I lost my nerve. It was harsher. 572°? I don't think I'll be turning it up to that.

 

[nabibrian]

Yes the choice is yours to make... of course the idea here is wanting ti use nickel to enjoy temp control but having safety concerns and wanting info.

Yes and information was provided in case you didn't READ!
Just in case you missed it, here it is again... V V

Directly from http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp15-c1.pdf:

"People who are not sensitive to nickel must eat very large amounts of nickel to suffer harmful health effects. Workers who accidentally drank light-green water containing 250 ppm of nickel from a contaminated drinking fountain had stomach aches and suffered adverse effects in their blood (increased red blood cells) and kidneys (increased protein in the urine). This concentration of nickel is more than 100,000 times greater than the amount usually found in drinking water.

You may be exposed to higher levels of nickel if you work in industries that process or use nickel. You also may be exposed to nickel by breathing dust or fumes (as from welding) or by skin contact with nickel-containing metal and dust or solutions containing dissolved nickel compounds. "

Based upon this read put out by the CDC it seems to me that one must consume nickel to be poisoned by it.

Also, it is the fumes from molten nickel that is hazardous. From what I understand nickel coils are far from being molten.

OSHA does not recognize using nickel as a heating element as being something of a safety hazard.

NEXT...

 

[Tim Vatic]

right on, I need less bacteria in my saliva. hook a brother up with some sodium chloride. LOL.

 

[5150sick]

I wouldn't give up TC now that I have found it either.
My 4th TC mod is in the mail and on it's way and I'll never buy a mod for myself without it again.
Why would you buy a mod with less features than the newest technology.
I shouldn't even ask that considering people still by mechs.
I would never buy a mod with less features than the newest technology. That's better.
Mechs still have their place, no circuits = nothing (less things) that can break or fail.
TC does something for me flavor wise that other mods do not plus wicks last a LOT longer for me.

 

[5150sick]

By the way I wasn't trying to say nickel was unsafe to use earlier.

I just saw a guy selling what was said to be a ready to use kit that contained a Kanger sub box, a Kanger subtank, and a 5 pack of kanger stock Ni200 coils.

Lets just say this guy had a magic kanger sub box that fires at 0.15 ohms
(we all know that doesn't exist and his kit would not work out of the box because the Ni200 0.15 ohm coil heads are not compatible with a kanger sub box)

If he did have a magic sub box that worked it would surely just dump all the power of the battery directly to the coil.

These cheap mods will not fire at 2.5 volts or 3 volts because they are unable to step down power so what is in the battery is what you get.

So you have a kanger subtank, basically a mech, and a 5 pack of 0.15 ohm kanger ni200 coils.

Benefit of the doubt, the battery is at 4 volts, the coil is a 0.15 ohms that would be 26 amps and 106 watts.

106 watts going to a fucking kanger subtank???

Does anyone here disagree that this would NOT vape properly?

 

[Giraut]

[...]Does anyone here disagree that this would NOT vape properly?[/SIZE]

I agree totally. All I'm saying is, it's not the nickel's fault but the mod's limitations. Although, as you say, with the box you describe, what'll likely happen is, it just plain won't work

 

[Jeepster]

Fear mongering at it's best. A bunch of fears and no information. Nichrome would leach as much as pure nickel would. Lack of information isn't enough information to condemn a product. People are being as stupid about temp control as they were about VW when it came out. "Oh, it's a fad, no one needs VW we have VV and can calculate the watts ourselves." Same bullshit.
Temp control is the greatest advancement in vaping since VW and not only is it here to stay, it's still getting better. Granted it would be nice if they had done more conclusive testing before they (Evolv) released it initially but we are beyond that now.. Over time we'll get any kinks worked out, meanwhile I'm happy to guinea pig them for you. I've been using mostly Ti01 for my recent builds and am happy with it so far anyway.