Noob battery question

Discussion in 'Electronic Cigarette Safety' started by Fudgey Finger, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    I should know this now but I don't have any mechs so I'm not quite as up on this stuff as I would like to be. I apologize if this has already been asked a bunch.

    So my question. When you add more batteries in parallel you can safely vape on lower ohm builds because the amperage is split amongst the batteries, right? In theory I was thinking that if a 0.1 ohm coil is the lowest my dual 18650 mod can safely handle, then if I had a 4 battery parallel I could build lower safely. 6 batteries you could build even lower and so on.

    Am I misunderstanding something or am I correct?

    Thanks all

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  2. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Mods Connecting in Series
    When connecting your batteries in Series you are doubling the voltage while maintaining the same capacity rating (amp hours) and CDR value of one battery. Example below

    [​IMG]

    Mods Connecting in Parallel

    When connecting in Parallel you are in theory doubling the capacity (amp hours) and CDR while maintaining the voltage of one of the individual batteries.

    Sine not everything is exactly equal for safety purposes take 50% CDR away from one of the batteries to err on the side of caution (For example you have two batteries, each have a CDR of 20... minus 50% from one gives you a CDR of 30)...(its closer to 15% difference but hey 50% gives plenty of wiggle room then until you know your way around it all)

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Ok thanks kingpin. I knew the other stuff from wiring my solar and stuff but it's good to confirm that knowledge. Thanks for the thorough and helpful reply.

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  4. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    What about a regulated mod? I have a 3 battery VV mod with the ability to fire as low as 0.03. Since the mod itself has the ability to supply 6.2v output I assume it must be run in a series and just limits the voltage. If I were to run it at day 3.2v what kind of strain am I putting on the batteries? Is my cdr still 20a because its wire in a series? The specific mod I am referring to is the ijoy zenith.

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  5. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Of course if any of the batteries in parallel is not making a good connection the other batteries will have to take up it's share of the load....
     
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  6. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    works different with a real regulated mod.
    Figure 75 watts max per GOOD 20 amp battery in the mod.
    Might get 100 out of each one for a short time if fully charged.
    A very short time.
     
  7. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    How would I find out what my cdr is though? The mod will fire a 0.03 coil I'm just wondering if that's a dumb thing to do. If more batteries in a regulated means I can build lower then I'm only buying 3+ battery mods from now on. I think I've got most of this current and electrical stuff figures out in relation to vaping. There's just a few big holes in my knowledge I need to fill.

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  8. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    If you buy batteries from Mooch's approved battery list it tells you the real CDR of the batteries.
    https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/

    Real 20 amp batteries are good for around 75W each and real 30 amp batteries are good for around 110W each. Less as they discharge.

    These are reasonable don't blow yer face off wattages.
     
  9. PuffOn

    PuffOn Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I've found with a regulated mod, it's not necessary to have crazy low builds...just turn up the watts.
     
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  10. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    THIS!
    No real need to go below .2 on a regulated mod.
    .2 also works fine for me on a single battery mech using a Mooch approved 20 amp battery.
     
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  11. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    How many amps is 75 watts. I'm trying to find out how the amp draw is affected by different battery configurations. I already know what mooch says about my batteries I'm just not sure what a 3 battery regulated mod can safely handle compared to a 1,2,4 battery or so on, regulated mod.

    Kingpin explained it well but then said it works differently on a regulated mod. I'm trying to find out what that difference is.

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  12. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

    Use 3.7 volts as a nominal figure. Most batteries will drop to close to that when firing at 20 amps.
    Even if fully charged to 4.2 volts.
    They will drop lower under load as they discharge.
     
  13. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    But I do have a need to go below .2

    Its damned near impossible to run the chunky coils I like to without going below .2

    I would like to start using more n80 because I like it better and I want to try it in some staple staggered fused claptons. If I do this I'm going to ohm lower than .1 without going thinner than 0.4x0.1mm ribbon cores.

    If it's safe for me to vape a 0.05 coil on a 3 or 4 battery mod, then this has big implications for my coil builds. I started this thread so that I could hopefully learn more about what's going on inside my mods and how to be safe without limiting my vaping experience.

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  14. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I will give no advise on going below .1.

    Nothing personal just a rule I have.
     
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  15. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Oh yeah ohms law, duh! I used a higher voltage and resistance though because I'm using my VV mod. Still though it says I'm using 57 amps with a .07ohm coil at 4v (because its a regulated VV mod) and I'm wondering what the cdr is for a 3 battery regulated mod. Is it the cdr of one battery? Is it the same as a parallel much where it's +50%

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  16. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    I'm not asking for advice on going below .1

    I'm trying to learn about battery safety. I was just giving an example that was against you and another posters' assertion that there is no reason to go below .2 on a regulated mod.

    I just want to know how this part of battery safety works and what limitations batteries have and how more batteries affects that. It sounds like you think it's dangerous. Please explain how it is dangerous. That's why I started this post.

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  17. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    many regulated mods will not go below .1.
    Mech mods do not care if you over draw the battery and cause a venting experience.

    On a regulated mod if it will accept the coil and fire it is pretty safe to use it as long as you used good mooch approved batteries for 20 amps or above.

    On a mech mod I just will not advise below .1.
     
  18. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Ok thank you. That's not what I'm really trying to find out here though. I really would like some clarification on how the cdr changes in relation from one battery to several batteries. I hope I'm not coming across rude, I just want to know what the limitations are to have a more complete knowledge of what is going on inside my mod. Kingpin gave me exactly the answer I was looking for but said it is different with regulated mods.

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  19. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    It’s the reverse to mechs amp draw is at it highest at low voltage rather than full voltage on regulated mods

    The reason being the power output you set it’s trying to deliver that the whole time on a regulated mod batteries increase current to maintain that performance

    Mechs power diminishes as batteries are used, since there is nothing trying to work that battery harder current draw also drops
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  20. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Ok thanks for clarifying. So is that statement true when I have 3 fresh batteries but I manually turn the voltage down to 2.7V on my mod?
     
  21. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    The way mooch does it is this on a regulated device

    Total wattage you will be vaping at / Number of batteries / low battery cut off for a single battery / chip efficiency (0.9 if unsure) = current drain at peak

    Example 100watts, number of batteries 2, low voltage cut of is 6 (so 3 per battery), chip efficiency is 90%

    100 / 2 / 3 / 0.9 = 18.52amps

    This removes the series or parralel argument

    So now you know the max draw;

    if it’s series choose Battery that covers this ....two 20CDR batteries will still have a CDR of 20

    Or If parralel you get more CDR to cover it say 2 20CDR cells you’ll have over 30CDR to play with

    Bear in mind here this is all to stay well within the safe range, you can push the cells harder but I personally dont like pushing that information out there since everyone can see it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  22. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks. This equation though
    100 / 2 / 3 / 0.9 = 18.52amps
    Shouldn't it be 100/2/6/0.9= because the low voltage cutoff is of the 2 batteries together like you stated in the sentence previous to the formula? Or is the low voltage cutoff 3 with these cells no matter how many there are in the device?

    Thanks for all the help. I hear you on the "staying in a safe range" statement. I have no intention of every pushing any of my batteries near their max. The reason I don't own any mechs is precisely because I want to stay as safe as possible. That being said I don't want to limit myself unnecessarily.

    One other thing I could use some clarification on. If the low voltage cutoff is 3v, then how can my variable voltage mod fire at 2.7 volts?
     
  23. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    it’s such that you use the low cut off of a single battery so it removes the parralell series argument from the equation since you are trying to divide wattage by number batteries beforehand makes sense

    100 / 6 / 0.9 = 18.52

    100 / 2 / 3 / 0.9 = 18.52

    Comes out to the same answer either way using 6 in the second calculation would give you a false answer

    and by doing it this way you don’t need to remember whether it’s parralel or series for the second calculation works for both :)

    In terms of your last question this is just what you are using to output ...eventually after enough usage the voltage in the battery will decrease to a level that is 3v left at which point mod will stop ...just means you have longer run time with it :) this is my take on it anyway
     
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  24. Fudgey Finger

    Fudgey Finger Bronze Contributor

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    Ok thanks a bunch KP! I really get it now. Thanks for your patience and thorough explanations.
     
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  25. KingPin!

    KingPin! Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Gold Contributor

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    No probs :) hoping at some point Cromwell will kick in with the last paragraph I posted above and explain that in more detail than I have
     
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  26. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor

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    The 3 volts cut-off [of the regulated mod in question] is referring to the input voltage (the voltage that the board inside the mod receives from one battery). Whereas the 2.7 volts that you mentioned is the output voltage (the voltage that the board delivers the atomizer/coil).
     
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