PG (propylene glycol) VERSUS VG (vegetable glycerin)

[vapingmandycat]

PG = PROPYLENE GLYCOL
THINNER CONSISTENCY
NO SWEET UNDERTONES
ALLOWS MORE INTENSE FLAVOR
SOME MAY BE SENSITIVE TO PG
MORE THROAT HIT
WARMER VAPOR
PRODUCES LESS VAPOR
LESS LIKELY TO GUNK UP YOUR ATOMIZER




VG=VEGETABLE GLYCERIN
THICKER CONSISTENCY
SLIGHTLY SWEET
CAN MINIMALLY REDUCE FLAVOR INTENSITY
SOLVES SENSITIVITY ISSUES SOMETIMES CAUSED BY PG
LESS THROAT HIT
COOLER VAPOR
PRODUCES MORE VAPOR
MORE LIKELY TO GUNK UP ATOMIZER

 

[YardByrd]

There is a loud pop and Yardbyrd suddenly appears levitating in the center of your field of vision. His platinum "YB"medallion is glowing green and you hear a deep, smooth, male, Latin, voice, translating all but his greeting and farewell:

CAW! "Salutations from across the Realms vapingmandycat! I had to pop in and offer my commendation on your succinct, accurate, helpful, and to the point post! It, IMHO, jumps over excellent to superior! Having been involved with DIY, for almost 2 years, I find this post to be extremely clear, helpful, and informative. Thank you!" CAW!

There is a another loud pop and YardByrd vanishes leaving a cloud of Honey Tobacco DIY flavored aroma in his wake.

 

[Scuba-Matt]

I mix all my juice 50/50

 

[AmandaD]

You might also add that some can't vape high VG either! People always talk about a 'sensitivity' to PG, but you don't see it mentioned that many people can't tolerate high VG - too heavy on the lungs, cough uncontrollably, and can affect breathing.

 

[Nailz]

You might also add that some can't vape high VG either!

I'm one of them, I find to much VG to be too heavy on my lungs, my prefect blend is 50/50.

 

[AmandaD]

I'm one of them, I find to much VG to be too heavy on my lungs, my prefect blend is 50/50.

I DIY at 50/50 because the flavor is right at that mix for me. But I really do better at much higher PG!

I think my lungs are a little sensitive after 40 years of smoking...

 

[HeadInClouds]

If I disagree that VG "gunks up" coils, will I be chased away? I have tanks with 100% VG (except for what's in the flavorings) that are pristine after weeks of use. Certain flavorings will wreck coils, but switching from 75/25 PG/VG to 100% VG didn't make any difference with my (cheap-o) vaping equipment.

edit: I should add, my VG has been from Wizard Labs and Bull City...My PG was primarily from WL

 

[skagit]

I agree with Hic here. I have 5 tanks for ADV that are a month old. I also do max VG minus small amount of PG in FA flavor.
I use ejuice4u VG and VaperTek VG nic.

 

[VapinChevy]

I agree with the 100% VG, I develop problems with breathing etc. So I run either 70vg/30pg - 80vg/20pg or I'll even do 60vg/40pg

 

[VapingJunkie]

Not just PG/VG ratios affect the after-effect of vaping certain juices, but also the flavor of said juices themselves. High menthol flavors can clean the coils, while messing up a plastic tank, tobacco flavors are close to the average, and sweet/dessert flavors tend to gunk up coils/tanks extra-quick. There's so many variables involved in vaping, it's hard to generalize without an essay response. But, we're getting close to the right formula! Let's keep the discussion going! /bow

 

[SMOKIE]

Yes VG is very heavy on the lungs, just look at your cars inside windshield with a heavy film that builds up which is kind of hard to remove even with windex. That film I believe can stick to your lung receptors in the same way with possibly making it hard to breath at times. Happens to me with high VG.

 

[buffaloguy]

Well those say VG is hard on the lungs I can say those same symptoms effect me with high PG juice. High PG makes me cough, dries my membranes out, makes juices taste stale (old), and gives me crushing headaches if I vape too much of it.

I think what we are seeing here is differences in our own vaping experiences. If you started vaping high PG you dont notice its stale flavor, and dont cough much. I had to experience switching to high VG after I first started vaping. I couldnt stand the headaches high PG caused. Turns out VG was the answer for me. I eventually found I could tolerate about 20% PG in a juice but I dont even try to go that high.
After switching I try PG based juice now and all I taste is stale flavor. Like its been sitting in a musty cabinet even freshly made, and I cough alot. Its just so dry.

VG does not gunk coils. Flavorings, additives like EM, vinegar, and other stuff, and the type of wick used is what gunks coils. VG never makes my chest feel heavy, in fact its a smoother, cleaner, and more mellow vape. I never cough unless I get a dry hit or Im vaping very sub ohm, which I generally dont. Lowest I go is .8ohm. I am normally at 1ohm.

VG also does not mute flavor. You just have to know how to mix with it. A certain amount of DW, and the correct steeping processes are necessary.

I believe alot of what we prefer to vape, and react to it, is kind of like how we were raised. We develop certain likes, dislikes, and preferences. For those that have had to challenge those and find new perceptions/perspectives as a matter of necessity, like me, we have a different take on it.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Some people are allergic to each for whatever reasons as in the real world some are alergic to a rose I myself prefer to vape Vegtable Glycerin in some combo even though of course I use different percentages of PG I just cannot get out of my mind that I am vaping radiator fluid what is cooling my car in the Radiator haha

 

[Sully]

I'm 100% VG now. No Ill effects...PG gave a hard throat hit (but also sore throat) and gave me slightly restricted airway and slight trouble breathing. Not crazy (way better than cigs), and vaped it for a year and loved it. But I no longer desire the hard TH and have discovered that 100% VG is a much more enjoyable vape for me.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I'm 100% VG now. No Ill effects...PG gave a hard throat hit (but also sore throat) and gave me slightly restricted airway and slight trouble breathing. Not crazy (way better than cigs), and vaped it for a year and loved it. But I no longer desire the hard TH and have discovered that 100% VG is a much more enjoyable vape for me.

Same and I say Save the PG (Radiator fluid) for your car and smoke machines

 

[buffaloguy]

Same and I say Save the PG (Radiator fluid) for your car and smoke machines

Radiator fluid, or antifreeze, is typically ethylene glycol. Not PG. Its a different substance altogether.

 

[UncleRJ]

Yes VG is very heavy on the lungs, just look at your cars inside windshield with a heavy film that builds up which is kind of hard to remove even with windex. That film I believe can stick to your lung receptors in the same way with possibly making it hard to breath at times. Happens to me with high VG.

Granted that while I am not a doctor and I hardly ever stay in a Holiday Inn Express, I kinda have the notion/feeling that the human lung can deal with a vegetable based (and for want of a better word) contaminant that it can with all the crap offered by the tobacco industry (I am reading this concept from the well respected medical journal DUHH) as well as a lot of fumes we come into contact with daily.

As well as my limited understanding goes, our lungs have a way of cleaning themselves unless they are really overloaded with crap.

Did I mention actual tobacco products already.

And speaking just for myself, I normally don't go for a "Lungful" of vapor.

On occasion I do indeed do that, But mostly just enough to tickle the back of my throat so I can enjoy the flavor along with a bit of throat hit.

 

[Sully]

My most enjoyed and most favorite vapes are my 100% organic mixes. No PG present, no h20 and alcohol from flavor evaporated...a nice side effect is that these flavors make phenomenal vapor and are extremely smooth!! I appreciate PG for certain situations, but for me, it has no place in my ADV.

 

[M5amhan]

i dont know if this is true or not but (i find it logical) VG metabolizes into sugar and PG metabolizes into some type of acid.. some of you may know my source on this one lol

 

[MrScaryZ]

Radiator fluid, or antifreeze, is typically ethylene glycol. Not PG. Its a different substance altogether.

UMmm yes it could be but you should read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze


With proper antifreeze, a wide temperature range can be tolerated by the engine coolant, such as −34 °F (−37 °C) to +265 °F (129 °C) for 50% (by volume) propylene glycol diluted with water and a 15 psi pressurized coolant system.[1][2]
Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol), still used in windshield washer fluid. As radiator caps were vented, not sealed, the methanol was lost to evaporation, requiring frequent replenishment to avoid freezing of the coolant. Methanol also accelerates corrosion of the metals, especially aluminium, used in the engine and cooling systems. Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water.

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[buffaloguy]

UMmm yes it could be but you should read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze


With proper antifreeze, a wide temperature range can be tolerated by the engine coolant, such as −34 °F (−37 °C) to +265 °F (129 °C) for 50% (by volume) propylene glycol diluted with water and a 15 psi pressurized coolant system.[1][2]
Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol), still used in windshield washer fluid. As radiator caps were vented, not sealed, the methanol was lost to evaporation, requiring frequent replenishment to avoid freezing of the coolant. Methanol also accelerates corrosion of the metals, especially aluminium, used in the engine and cooling systems. Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water.

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Ö

Okay why are you trying to defend obvious misinformation? PG is NOT CURRENTLY used for antifreeze in radiators, and rarely ever has been. the water content makes it ineffective and it corrodes engine parts. So stop telling people it is used for antifreeze. Thats the kind of blatent ignorance and misinformation that is spread by the likes of the asswipes at the FDA. Why are you going around adding fuel to it?

It says right there:

"Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol)"

Fact: Thats not PG EITHER.

"Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water."

Fact: Ethelyne glycol is NOT PG.

Please stop you are embarassing yourself.

So there is YOUR LOGIC error brought to its knees. BOOM THAT!

 

[MrScaryZ]

Okay why are you trying to defend obvious misinformation? PG is NOT CURRENTLY used for antifreeze in radiators, and rarely ever has been. the water content makes it ineffective and it corrodes engine parts. So stop telling people it is used for antifreeze. Thats the kind of blatent ignorance and misinformation that is spread by the likes of the asswipes at the FDA. Why are you going around adding fuel to it?

It says right there:

"Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol)"

Fact: Thats not PG EITHER.

"Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water."

Fact: Ethelyne glycol is NOT PG.

Please stop you are embarassing yourself.

So there is YOUR LOGIC error brought to its knees. BOOM THAT!

Firstly do not start with the name blame all I said is "read this" I am fully aware that it changed. You sure a bit uptight dear god..

 

[MrScaryZ]

Firstly do not start with the name blame all I said is "read this" Proplyene Glycol is used inside in all types of cooling situations now because of the FD. I am fully aware that it changed in cars. You sure a bit uptight dear god..

 

[buffaloguy]

You clearly stated "I just cannot get out of my mind that I am vaping radiator fluid what is cooling my car in the Radiator haha" and that it was used as antifreeze.... its not.

There are alot of new vapers, and ones considering vaping that still smoke, out here that see stuff like that and it freaks them out. Then they read the FDA saying ecigs have antifreeze in them (which was debunked) and they stay smoking. Those are the folks who stop me on rhe streetand wanna argue with me about antifreeze being in ecigs and and how tobacco is SAFER.

Im sorry, but yeah Im fucking uptight.

Ingorance is bliss but it definitely breeds stupidity so please dont spread misinformation and then further try to validate it by pulling wikidumbia and acting smart while misquoting that as your source in the process.

I see that crap and Im sorry. I gotta call people out on it. It pisses me off to no extent.

 

[MrScaryZ]

You clearly stated "I just cannot get out of my mind that I am vaping radiator fluid what is cooling my car in the Radiator haha" and that it was used as antifreeze.... its not.

There are alot of new vapers, and ones considering vaping that still smoke, out here that see stuff like that and it freaks them out. Then they read the FDA saying ecigs have antifreeze in them (which was debunked) and they stay smoking. Those are the folks who stop me on rhe streetand wanna argue with me about antifreeze being in ecigs and and how tobacco is SAFER.

Im sorry, but yeah Im fucking uptight.

Ingorance is bliss but it definitely breeds stupidity so please dont spread misinformation and then further try to validate it by pulling wikidumbia and acting smart while misquoting that as your source in the process.

I see that crap and Im sorry. I gotta call people out on it. It pisses me off to no extent.

Asshole let me put it a different way I was kinda jesting on the issue but you are taking this way to serious so now I will be as blunt as you are and being a fuck. Bend over fill an Enema tube with Ejuice and slam it up your ass. Do not start with "Ignorace is bliss" with me you must not know me very well. The bottom line is STFU.. I admit I was half awake so it was my fault.. Now be quiet..

 

[misswish]

And that was totally uncalled for.

 

[chris.ardito.3]

Take it for what it's worth.
Safety of propylene glycol:
-It has been used safely for more than 50 years, including in health-sensitive products such as food, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals, where the molecule mainly serves as non-active ingredient or carrier of other substances
-Studies have proven that propylene glycol has a very low degree of toxicity
-In the body, propylene glycol is rapidly converted into lactic acid, in a similar manner to what happens with sugar (energy) in the muscles during sports


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[buffaloguy]

You are a douchebag.... and you just showed how truly ignorant, classless, and trashy you are.

The future speak from knowledge and admit humbly when you are wrongand you wont be made to look the fool.

Nuff said.... Now begone foul beast! you are ignored permanently.

Asshole let me put it a different way I was kinda jesting on the issue but you are taking this way to serious so now I will be as blunt as you are and being a fuck. Bend over fill an Enema tube with Ejuice and slam it up your ass. Do not start with "Ignorace is bliss" with me you must not know me very well. The bottom line is STFU.. I admit I was half awake so it was my fault.. Now be quiet..

 

[Jimi D]

I get the best of both worlds. 45/45 PG and 10 % water is my goto ratios

 

[flowerpots]

VPG Power Smoke Base

 

[flowerpots]

Not to fan the flames, but I'm reminded of a smiley I saw the other day

 

[RocketPuppy]

Some people have an allergy to VG, and some, like me have an intolerance to it. Had to get a skin test when I was younger, and luckily I've grown out of it in terms of body products. Once I started vaping, the symptoms returned, and I didn't make the connection for quite a while. As long as I keep my vg under 30%, I seem to be aok.

 

[buffaloguy]

I get the best of both worlds. 45/45 PG and 10 % water is my goto ratios

Id love to try it your way jimi but I just cant hack the PG that high. 80%VG/20% everything else is my goto. If I have 4% flavor then Im using 16% DW. Im recently messing with 85%VG tho just to see if I, and my rba's, can handle it. So far so good. No wicking issues yet.

 

[Cessnapix]

Id love to try it your way jimi but I just cant hack the PG that high. 80%VG/20% everything else is my goto. If I have 4% flavor then Im using 16% DW. Im recently messing with 85%VG tho just to see if I, and my rba's, can handle it. So far so good. No wicking issues yet.

I had to start 100% vg after my 1st two days of vaping. Mainly sore throats and canker sores. After a while i went dow in steps to see how much I could tolerate as far as pg.

I ended up at 65vg/35pg Not including flavorings. I don't vape that high of pg on a regular basis. However before I started in DIY I wanted to know what I could tolerate ordering premix.

Now I settle on a 25%pg/70%vg/5%dw as a base and let the rest fall where it may when adding flavorings.

I am very envious of those who can vape higher pg levels but the taste would be so different now. This is the 1st time I have had heard of anyone being allergic to VG. Learning something new everyday still.

I do get the vapers cough ever once in a while but not as bad as smoking and my Dr. says my lungs sound good and clear. He is 100% behind me as far as leving cigg.s and vaping. However I noticed he has backed of a little on his provaping stance. Probably afraid of law suites incase there is medical evidence down the road against vaping?

Vg is not gunking up the coils either, it is the flavoring.

 

[MrScaryZ]

You are a douchebag.... and you just showed how truly ignorant, classless, and trashy you are.

The future speak from knowledge and admit humbly when you are wrongand you wont be made to look the fool.

Nuff said.... Now begone foul beast! you are ignored permanently.

Awesome another one bites the dust haha

 

[VapinChevy]

Enough with the fighting/bickering etc. Can't we all just get a long?

 

[Jimi D]

Id love to try it your way jimi but I just cant hack the PG that high. 80%VG/20% everything else is my goto. If I have 4% flavor then Im using 16% DW. Im recently messing with 85%VG tho just to see if I, and my rba's, can handle it. So far so good. No wicking issues yet.

If it's health issues I understand. PG definitely runs hotter than VG. I'll run the 45/45/10 with .7 ohm and higher. .4 ohm and lower I vape 30/70 PG VG 10 % water. But, I drip and bottom feed only.

 

[buffaloguy]

I also had the canker sores issues. I researched it alot and it turns out alot of ex smokers get them. Mine were pretty severe for awhile. Switching to VG didnt solve it for me. What actually did was switching to a sensodyne toothpaste or any that does not contain "sodium lauryl sulfate". Within days my canker sores cleared up and Ive rarely had a problem since. Anytime I use a toothpaste containing it now they come back. I never had a problem when I smoked with any toothpaste, but that was my culprit. Seems alot of ex smokers have this problem and its very underreported. The only time they reoccur now is when I vape flavorings that were extracted with triacetin (mainly fruits). Not sure why but my mouth doesnt react well to those.

For me hugh PG caused extreme headaches. VG solved that for me tho.

I had to start 100% vg after my 1st two days of vaping. Mainly sore throats and canker sores. After a while i went dow in steps to see how much I could tolerate as far as pg.

I ended up at 65vg/35pg Not including flavorings. I don't vape that high of pg on a regular basis. However before I started in DIY I wanted to know what I could tolerate ordering premix.

Now I settle on a 25%pg/70%vg/5%dw as a base and let the rest fall where it may when adding flavorings.

I am very envious of those who can vape higher pg levels but the taste would be so different now. This is the 1st time I have had heard of anyone being allergic to VG. Learning something new everyday still.

I do get the vapers cough ever once in a while but not as bad as smoking and my Dr. says my lungs sound good and clear. He is 100% behind me as far as leving cigg.s and vaping. However I noticed he has backed of a little on his provaping stance. Probably afraid of law suites incase there is medical evidence down the road against vaping?

Vg is not gunking up the coils either, it is the flavoring.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I can agree on the headaches..
not to mention, I can not do over 20%pg..
I cough so bad for days and sound like I have been to the biggest concert of my life..

for me, I will always love my clouds.. they make me the happiest.. I have my bestest to thank for that..

 

[Jimi D]

Dirty nic gave me headaches. Now it's all good

 

[MrScaryZ]

Dirty nic gave me headaches. Now it's all good

You got dirty Nic? eeeek from where

 

[m3rma1d]

Asshole let me put it a different way I was kinda jesting on the issue but you are taking this way to serious so now I will be as blunt as you are and being a fuck. Bend over fill an Enema tube with Ejuice and slam it up your ass. Do not start with "Ignorace is bliss" with me you must not know me very well. The bottom line is STFU.. I admit I was half awake so it was my fault.. Now be quiet..

Oh, Mrs. Caryz... Again?

 

[Smoky Blue]

Oh my.. m3rma1d.. that is just too funny!

make her stay still

 

[UncleRJ]

You clearly stated "I just cannot get out of my mind that I am vaping radiator fluid what is cooling my car in the Radiator haha" and that it was used as antifreeze.... its not.

There are alot of new vapers, and ones considering vaping that still smoke, out here that see stuff like that and it freaks them out. Then they read the FDA saying ecigs have antifreeze in them (which was debunked) and they stay smoking. Those are the folks who stop me on rhe streetand wanna argue with me about antifreeze being in ecigs and and how tobacco is SAFER.

Im sorry, but yeah Im fucking uptight.

Ignorance is bliss

I see that crap and Im sorry. I gotta call people out on it. It pisses me off to no extent.

I will have you know that I am a graduate of (the now defunct) Bliss Business College where I earned a degree in Business Administration.

And I once made the mistake of saying this where the Director of Education could hear me.

"Bliss Is Ignorance and Ignorance Is Bliss"

Fortunately, he was also the fraternity adviser so he just gave me a friendly warning (as soon as he was able to stop laughing) and "Advised" me never to let the dean hear me say that if I wanted to graduate.

 

[Spike64]

I dont discriminate...50/50 is perfect for me...if I have to make a choice though, slightly higher PG is it....I prefer a good throat hit...

 

[chickenmonkey]

Okay why are you trying to defend obvious misinformation? PG is NOT CURRENTLY used for antifreeze in radiators, and rarely ever has been. the water content makes it ineffective and it corrodes engine parts. So stop telling people it is used for antifreeze. Thats the kind of blatent ignorance and misinformation that is spread by the likes of the asswipes at the FDA. Why are you going around adding fuel to it?

It says right there:

"Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol)"

Fact: Thats not PG EITHER.

"Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water."

Fact: Ethelyne glycol is NOT PG.

Please stop you are embarassing yourself.

So there is YOUR LOGIC error brought to its knees. BOOM THAT!

In our business we use the pink antifreeze (marine) to winterize abandoned properties. On the bottle it says 40% propylene glycol and 60% ionized water.
The exert below is from Wikipedia. Google rv antifreeze ingrediants and the msds.

Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol is able to lower the freezing point of water, and so it is used as aircraft de-icing fluid.[4][8] Water-propylene glycol mixtures dyed pink to indicate the mixture is relatively nontoxic are sold under the name of RV or marine antifreeze. Propylene glycol is frequently used as a substitute for ethylene glycol in low toxicity, environmentally friendly automotive antifreeze (such as Sierra, Prestone Low Tox, and Texaco PG). It is also used to winterize the plumbing systems in vacant structures.

 

[VapingHippie]

In my house we went from a 60/40 PG/VG to 20/80 PG/VG mix because my wife had developed deep muscle leg cramps. I did a a little research and found the PG lactic acid connection and did the switch to the lower PG and the wife's leg cramps went away.
I have been vaping using the same Kanger t3 for a month using the original coil, all I have had to do is change the wicking material for flavor. This is because I avoid using dark colored liquids. When I do use dark colored liquids my coils barley last a week.
So saying that vg gunks up coils is a fallacy.

Sent from the scariest place on earth, my mind.
..
using Tapatalk 2

 

[Smoky Blue]

this is the 1% per volume they add to pg, to make it into ethylene glycol..
does not "have to be on mds sheets, but is often found.. depends on manufacturer..
this is what makes antifreeze.. I have done a lot of searching for uses, causes and reactions on both pg and vg..

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwNDIsTwYAC-wCfQ&q=ethylene glycol

both pg and vg can be found in common items just about everywhere..
pg is also used to get cows to eat.. mooo

 

[buffaloguy]

In our business we use the pink antifreeze (marine) to winterize abandoned properties. On the bottle it says 40% propylene glycol and 60% ionized water.
The exert below is from Wikipedia. Google rv antifreeze ingrediants and the msds.

Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol is able to lower the freezing point of water, and so it is used as aircraft de-icing fluid.[4][8] Water-propylene glycol mixtures dyed pink to indicate the mixture is relatively nontoxic are sold under the name of RV or marine antifreeze. Propylene glycol is frequently used as a substitute for ethylene glycol in low toxicity, environmentally friendly automotive antifreeze (such as Sierra, Prestone Low Tox, and Texaco PG). It is also used to winterize the plumbing systems in vacant structures.

There are indeed plenty of uses for PG. However it is not used in radiators in cars. You can use it as a substitute. However go try to find it in commercial antifreeze at any garage or auto parts store... its all ethelyne. Yes, there are a few commercial products IF you can find them. Most often stores dont carry those. Nonenear me do. Anyone using it in a car radiator would be purposely buying it or have knowledge of how to mix it right which is likely .01% of all automotive owners. Etheleyne is what it used.

I never said it wasnt used for other things. What I said was that its misinformation that ejuice and antfreeze for cars is the same thing.

Lets move past it please.

 

[AmandaD]

PG has many uses - who cares what they are! It works in vaping