Questions about proper mixing.

[NexDeus]

So I went and sampled some vendor juices today, and I'm blown away with how they make "Exactly as advertised" eliquids. Peach tastes like peach. Strawberry tastes like strawberry etc. My juices (using mostly TFA) while tastes like peach or strawberry, also tastes VERY sweet and there's no real depth to the flavor. What are the tips you pros use to round off your flavors and create the "Flavor 1 on inhale, flavor 2 on exhale" type of complexities?

 

[Graham Bradley]

Different brands, if you want a full bodied strawberry, use some FA strawberry and some capella sweet strawberry and some TFA strawberry or ripe strawberry... This is the case with most flavors.

 

[NexDeus]

Hmm. I'll have to try those suggestions. But I honestly feel like they cut their juice with other additives. I have a TFA peach here. It just tastes like peach rolled in sugar. I'm even using 50-50 pg/vg just like they "said" theirs was. I have to assume there's something else that sets vendors apart from the average guy in his basement. Bitter wizard or smooth additives maybe?

It's really hard to explain a taste in words...lol

 

[freemind]

Most juice mixers tend to mix different brands of the same flavor to get the full effect of the desired flavor.

Meaning, using 2 or three of the same flavor, to get the best all around flavor. I'm not that picky. If I want strawberry, I'll typically grab ONE and use it.

 

[NexDeus]

Guess it's true now that its post number 2 that says so Could I be facing an issue with shake n vaping? Do you lose some sweetness as flavors steep perhaps?

 

[freemind]

I have never lost any sweetness to aging.

 

[NexDeus]

Well consider me mindblown. I'm full well willing to accept I just plain suck at this DIY stuff, but I can't believe that they can do something I cant. I'm following all suggested % for flavors, doing the 2-4 hour crock steeps. Even tried EM, lemon juice, vinegar and malic acid depending on the circumstances. There's gotta be something I'm missing. Does that I'm sub-ohming change anything?

 

[TheVapingDevil]

@NexDeus. I Subohm too and had a hell of a time with flavors. I found that to Subohm and get great flavors I had to increase the percentages a bit to get to my desired taste. It takes a but and we all sucked at first till we found our groove. Of course depending on what equipment your using will also effect flavors. I find my Atlantis mutes EVERYTHING but my subtank, lemo and now Starre are awesome for flavors

 

[NexDeus]

@TheVapingDevil Yeah I have the subtank mini myself. I'm starting to question if the humco VG I'm getting from walmart is somehow different than something I'd get from a DIY vendor. Any thoughts on that?

 

[freemind]

You're still learning, and so am I.

VG gives a sweet taste. The more vg in a mix, the sweeter it will naturally be,

 

[NexDeus]

Aye, I've taken in at least that much I've started leaning on this bottle of 30/70 base because I think the PG is starting to irritate my throat, but having just made another batch of peach with that mix, it's also irritating me, where as my strawberry isnt. Thinking it's the peach flavoring that my throat doesnt like, so I might bump back to 50-50 or even 70-30 and see what that does. Hate making large bottles of base to find out I dont want it that way anymore XD

So how would I go about making 150ml of 30/70 3mg/ml into 70/30 3mg/ml. Not a math person lol

 

[msjs91011]

I DIY too and I am going to be (hopefully) working on a thread to help everyone like you and I who can't seem to perfect our DIY juices. I think I know what my problems is, personally. I have this feeling that FW is "low-end" flavoring, so that may be why half of them just scratch the hell out of my throat.

 

[NexDeus]

Considering most juice makers in the industry are licensed chemists (at least the good vendors) I suspect there's more than meets the eye for sure.

 

[msjs91011]

Here's some food for thought:

my wife and I mixed some juices on my truck. I had her make max vg base, 6mg nic which I ordered in 50/50. we mixed almost a dozen flavors at 12% flavoring (all were single flavors from FW). We shook and tried them and most scratched our throats pretty bad. Steeped almost a week and most of the ones that scratched before, still scratched, but a couple didnt.

our first batch of fluids were mixed with 18% FW single flavors (yes I found out its a LOT). We then heated each individual flavored juice in the microwave for 3 seconds at a time, shaking between each round, for 3-4 rounds. they tasted great. After steeping, one of the 18% flavored jucies got to be way too strong, but the other was REALLY good, in your face clouds and flavor.

Our third batch which I made yesterday contained flavor percentages as recommended on this spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/o..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=7
We microwaved them for 3 rounds at 4 seconds each, shaking in between. Most of the FW flavors I used this time were mediocre at best. We are going to steep them for about 2 weeks to see what happens with them, but I am not expecting them to improve by much. I did make one from FA I think, sweetangy, and added a sweetener and sour component and its very good. I think for us, the microwave-shake method we are using really makes a difference right off the bat.

 

[NexDeus]

Good to know. When I'm in a hurry I just put the bottles in near boiling water for like 4 mins, but from what I've seen (tasted) so far it really doesnt change things that much.

Since I'm just sitting here I went and made 30ml of a 70/30 6mg/ml base batch and tossed it on a clean wick. I almost died XD So going higher PG is 100% out of the question for me. So I'm thinking I'm going to order some bitter wizard and see how that works.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I haven't gotten my vg from anywhere other than bullcity, and RTS vapes. Never had an issue so hard to comment on others brand. Sorry bout that. I mix mine at 80% VG so I get a higher sweet flavor to begin with.

 

[NexDeus]

I know the VG is sweet, but this is almost like sickly sweet. Guess the only way to know for sure is to try another brand (duh) lol

Let me word it this way: I could put this VG on my pancakes and not feel like I'm missing out on sweetness vs good ol pancake syrup.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

That is pretty sweet then. I would try another brand just to compare the two

 

[NexDeus]

Holy shit, RTS sells 25% Nicotine 0.0

 

[dnezarmichael]

Its like playing guitar, it takes a while before you memorize the chords you like, then a little bit more to learn your scales.

its like drawing, it takes a while before you learn the proper techniques to create objects, then a little while longer to learn how to shade.

What I'm saying is, like most worthwhile things you learn, its not straight forward, it takes time and inspiration.

The cool thing is you get to vape all your mistakes, lol

 

[BumbaCLot]

I'm surprised at some of the responses in here just due to the excellent resources available. There are massive threads from FlavourArt fans. I have had more luck following any of the FA recipes and after reading just a few hours made a decision to go that route. I've had tons of awful juices from stores and I think its all the cheap and strong percentage flavor companies.
Buy some FA like the first responders said. I have over 100 of them and none reek of chemicals like the Capellas and TFAs I have.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

Please let me clarify my response. I use 90% FA flavors and agree they are the best. My comment was only to point out that when you Subohm the flavors are usually lower than if you vaped with standard coils. I find I have to bump up my FA flavors a bit to satisfy my tastes.

 

[fiveOclock]

Try steeping for 3 - 4 weeks. Most of fruit flavors might not make much difference but custard/ry type of flavors will do well after long steep time. Also, I found that most of sweet flavor pop after some steeping. Well, it seems to go through the phase of medium, weak, and strong cycle.
Lastly, the throat harshness seems to be strongest in a fresh mix. I am guessing Nic isn't bounded enough and contributing to that. I sort of confirmed this theory by testing a premix (PG/VG/Nic only) of 1 week compared to fresh mix. With identical mix ratio, premix had much less harshness.

 

[purevapor1]

Different brands, if you want a full bodied strawberry, use some FA strawberry and some capella sweet strawberry and some TFA strawberry or ripe strawberry... This is the case with most flavors.

yes i do agree with Graham Bradley on that note, my peach cream juice uses FA white peach, CAP juicy peach, CAP peaches n cream and VZ white peach.

 

[NexDeus]

Good to know! Thanks purevapor

 

[Professor Snape]

Hey @NexDeus, don't despair. I have lost a good deal of my sense of smell and consequently taste, so what I do is premix my flavors in a larger batch, while keeping the flavors at the same ratio the recipe called for. Then I do a taste test on small cubes of white bread, and adjust the percentage of the flavor mix that goes into the juice I'm making. To me most vendor juices have no flavor at all; that's why I got in to DIY.

 

[NexDeus]

Its not that they have more or less taste so much, just different tastes. Less chaotic sweet notes flying everywhere, more refined and balanced. My juice is just sorta sweet. Kinda like a flavored sucker. I'm going to get some bitter wizard one of these days and experiment with that.

 

[NexDeus]

So I remade my coil and wick today. It seems like my last coil or wick was done wrong in some way. This new coil (28g @ 6 wraps) and my wick done with flared ends tastes so much better. Has anyone ever experienced a coil or wick job being responsible for bad taste?

 

[NexDeus]

Oh, and how the heck can I get rid of this ugly green "new member" badge. I've been here long enough! Lol

Edit* Reading helps XD. 9 more posts to go!

 

[Time]

Its not that they have more or less taste so much, just different tastes. Less chaotic sweet notes flying everywhere, more refined and balanced. My juice is just sorta sweet. Kinda like a flavored sucker. I'm going to get some bitter wizard one of these days and experiment with that.

This might seem counter intuitive but you could try adding a bit of cotton candy(EM). I say that because I bought a vendor juice when I first started vaping and DIY(I began DYI a couple weeks after I started vaping) and it was smooth and delicious. Some two fruit type mix. Anyway, a short time later I first used EM in a fruit mix and found the EM somewhat muted the fruit high notes and smoothed out the flavor. It was the exact experience I got from the vendor juice. Anyway, It's been my experience that most vendor juices, with the exception of some high end stuff, isn't all that complex. Especially if it's in house.

It might not be the answer but could be worth a shot. It's entirely possible I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[NexDeus]

Yeah "ive been messing with my EM. It helps in some instances

 

[NexDeus]

Its really easy to go from the muting smoothing effect to "Hey I'm vaping cotton candy" effect though XD