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Should I get a Vindicator? Or will I ever use it?

Discussion in 'Unregulated (Mechanical) Mods' started by minimag03, Aug 5, 2019.

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Should I drop the cash on a nice Vindicator?

  1. Buy the Vindicator

    3 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. Nope, you'll never use it

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Get a Dreamer/Keen instead

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. minimag03

    minimag03 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Hey guys,

    I'm looking for a little advice. I've been considering picking up a new Vindicator. I've never owned a mechanical device before, but I'm confident that I'll be able to use it safely. I usually use single battery squonks during the day and a dual battery mod/squonk when at home. But I'd like to incorporate a nice mech tube into that rotation.

    So my main question is mainly for people who bought a nice mech after using regulated mods for years: Did you guys ever start using it on a regular basis? Or did you use it once and put it on the shelf to look pretty?

    I'm just don't want to drop $165 on a mech tube only to be disappointed with the performance compared to my regulated mods. But the appeal of it's size and simplicity is attractive to me. I have a large variety of AVS SS wire too, so I can probably hit just about any resistance I would want (Not to mention it would hopefully be a little safer for a new mech user since it's resistance rises as the coil warms).

    I was considering a Dreamer or Keen instead, but the craftsmanship and value of the Kennedy is too attractive to me (it's rare to get the "best" performing of anything in vaping without spending a lot more than $165).
     
  2. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    /sigh
    Mechs are useful, (once you puzzle out the How-To's), for (wait for it) Vapocalypse. I've a pair of Noisy Cricket v1's for the End Of Days - add a coil over an ohm and you get a couple days & tank refills; I've a DS-style squonker that has been modded to use normal bottles, and proven to work over & over. These are all packed away for Vapocalypse.

    The Yihi M-class is packed away; the spare DNA200 (vt133) is packed away. The daily's are: a vt133, a Basium and an SXK Boxer that I just finished jamming a PWM into. Frankly, if the PWM had reverse-battery and overdraw protection, I'd go that route all the time.

    For a daily "just goddamned vape", you use regulated - VV/VW/PWM.
     
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  3. Wb80

    Wb80 -DIY-demon- VU Donator Gold Contributor

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    Lol..i have 2 og nc in my dooms day vape box.
     
  4. Creature0069

    Creature0069 Bronze Contributor

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    My advice? But a $30 clone and decide if you want to foray into mechs before making that kind of investment into a simple tube.

    I prefer the consistency of regulated mods over the inconsistent power from a mech. YMMV.
     
  5. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Yeah.. @CrazyChef v2.0 & his danged sales ;-) I got a couple "510 heatsinks" on the way to pack with them - this will thus allow me to jam any damned tank on those I want. ;-)

    I'd say look around the Hardware forum - there are some, and they are affordable. I never saw anything in my years of New Tube Of The Month to indicate tubes were worth the powder to blow them straight to hell. Hell, you can't even find consistency in threading or switch designs.
     
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  6. DonBaldy

    DonBaldy Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    You can never go wrong with a Kennedy. Just my opinion but they are probably one of the best values out there for a tube mech. Other's will disagree, but that's ok.

    I vape both regulated and mechs on a regular basis. It simply depends on the situation and mood st the moment. I also don't reserve the mechs just for home use. Many times they will go out and about unless it's going to be an all day affair. I personally prefer vaping mechs. I like how it will start off strong, equalize for a while and then taper off before needing a battery change. As the vape changes I will taste different notes within the juice.

    Of course your experience may not mirror mine. You may want to do as others have said and find a more inexpensive mech or a good clone to try first before dropping the change on the Kennedy. Although if money isn't an issue for you and you decide to jump to the Kennedy and it isn't too your liking you will have no trouble selling it in the Hardware section.

    Good luck whichever way you choose.
     
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  7. Wb80

    Wb80 -DIY-demon- VU Donator Gold Contributor

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    Agreed, get a 20$ clone. I have a few and they work well. This way if you like it you can invest in a kenedy. And if not your not out the higher price tag. Jmho
     
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  8. PoppaVic

    PoppaVic Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Even then, a 20$ clone is still not the grail he wants - I'd never invest in some >$10 mechanical anymore until I tested my atty on someone elses unit.

    $10-$20, fine - you waste an hours pay. If it's less than an hour, hey: you go right ahead and spend all you want.
     
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  9. Danimal77

    Danimal77 Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I have mechs and use them everyday. To me there is no better vape then a fresh wicked atty on a mech with a fresh battery. I too don’t just use them at home. I travel with them use them at work


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    If you are referring to the Vindicator 21700, then yes. I own the black version (upgraded with the optional constant contact button), the blood splatter version, and the Cobblestones. The latter two come with the constant contact button already included in the package... the standard button leaves moderate/mild arcing marks on the battery whereas the constant contact still causes some arcing, just not on the battery itself. The silver plating on the constant contact does wear off over time. This, however, does not degrade the performance of the mod in any way that can be noticed by vaping. (Silver plating can't affect the real-world performance, as the thickness of a layer of plating is simply too thin for that to be at all possible with any mech mod.) So I don't think of it as a con. The build quality is impeccable. The mod hits hard. Last week a guy told me his copper Dreamer hits harder than his brass Vindicator 21700. So I told him to put a few drops of isopropyl alcohol on a bit of leftover Cotton Bacon and clean the machine oil off of the screw threads of his Vindicator 21700.

    There's a certain, distinct 'directness' of how a mech mod vapes if using a strong performing RDA with a set of intricate handbuilt coils tailored to your own personal vaping style preferences, and that separates it from any regulated mod. I don't expect everyone to understand that, but you seem like a smart enough guy so... :) One minor con with the constant contact button is that it tends to be a bit of a crunchy button. But the good news is there's an easy fix. I found that laying a 20mm × 2.5mm o-ring on top of the constant contact button's button housing works wonders if using a Samsung 30T battery. So the bottom line is yes. Buy it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  11. Wb80

    Wb80 -DIY-demon- VU Donator Gold Contributor

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    I only say that because mechs are what some love and others realize they just arent their thing at all. I personally fall in the middle. I like mechs but always gravitate back to my regulated.
     
  12. IcepickMaker84

    IcepickMaker84 VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I have a clone Vindicator that a love and intend to purchase the real deal, figure the cheapo functions great so $50/60 for a used one isn’t too bad.
     
  13. Bluenatic

    Bluenatic Member For 2 Years

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    Yes. Best value tube IMO. I am single coil squonker (basically your situation), and use my Vindicator daily. After finding the right coils for it, N90 tricore aliens, it's almost taking over my other setups. I don't take it to work with me as I work outside but as soon as reach home, I reach for it. Kennedy in general is top notch. When I get enough cash saved up I'm going to get another, with the CC button. Do it lol
     
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  14. Coval51

    Coval51 VU Vendor VU Vendor Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The Vindicator 21700 is a great mod. I've got a black cerakoted 21700 Vindicator with the old switch and for the price, which is quite low for the level of craftsmanship and machining, it's a fantastic mech mod. Top line stuff. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, I think you'll be ok as long as you pay attention to what is going on. If the switch button gets hot or the mod gets hot, don't put on a glove, find and fix the problem. Like I said, you seem to be aware and as long as you are, you'll be fine. Besides, this is a great place to find out anything you need to know. You have my personal invitation to PM me anytime with any questions you may have, as for going the clone route, well, depends on how much money you have. You would be able to sell an authentic for only $20 less than you bought it for, so you really only stand to lose the price of the clone. You will find though, that the clones and the authentic do have noticeable differences in smoothness of switch, etc. To each his own, that's why we've got choices. Have fun and keep us posted.
     
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  15. minimag03

    minimag03 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Soooo y'all have left me completely torn about buying one lol. But I asked for your experience/advice, and I cannot expect you guys to decide for me..

    I have the cash to buy an authentic. Too many times I have bought something cheap/mid-range only to find that I love it and want the nicer version. Which is why I wanted to go straight for the Kennedy. But I can recoupe most of my cash by reselling it, I don't see much for me to lose in trying one out. I would be getting the all black one with CC switch too, so it would be an appealing mod even to people who already have a Vindicator. So the cerokote is tough? I've had problems with coatings before on my paintball equipment so I'm always weary of anything other than anodizing..
     
  16. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Get one. And if you want tough, hard to beat stainless. Cerakote is on top of soft copper. If dropped, who cares if it doesn’t get scratched but the 510 threads are ruined? Just my thoughts.
     
  17. Bluenatic

    Bluenatic Member For 2 Years

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    My black cerakote looks the same as the day I bought it but I baby it so others might be able to answer better as they might take theirs out and about daily or often. The finish seems durable to me though. And to add, for those who have dealt with Kennedy often, won't they re-cerakote your Vindicator (any Kennedy tube) fairly reasonably?
     
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  18. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I think it was @jwill who was telling somebody one time that the Vindicator 21 was a great choice for a first tube, for what I thought were very good reasons. Simple, reliable, trouble free and high quality. Keep it clean and there's nothing to go wrong. Not to mention being an excellent performer. They're actually like $130 USD on the Kennedy site.
    20190601_175428_cr.jpg
     
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  19. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yes, the cerakoting is tough. I have been using my black Vindicator daily and exclusively for about seven months total, maybe eight... it is still the same as new, which is completely perfect.

    However, I know a guy who also has the black Vindicator, which he bought only a few weeks before I got mine. The matte finish on his was identical at first when both mods were still new. Now, about ten months later, his has become ever so slightly darker due to the matte finish on it having turned to what would appear to be something closer in between matte and semi-glossy. It is subtle and it occurs evenly along the entire setup including the RDA, but nonetheless it's there. The reason I can tell it's his setup that changed over time, not mine, is because I own an additional black Kennedy 25 RDA that I've never used so I am able to verify this correctly.

    I bought the black constant contact button separately because the constant contact buttons didn't exist yet at the time when I got my black Vindicator, and, after I had accidentally dropped my black constant contact button (but fortunately not the mod itself) on an asphalt floor the cerakoting showed only some minor scratches where the copper underneath just barely came visible. Like, just a few very tiny specks were visible on one side only, all within an area that is roughly the size of a pea. So now I own three black buttons instead of only two. The constant contact on the one that I dropped is naked copper, whereas the constant contact on the replacement I got is silver plated.
     
  20. dhomes

    dhomes Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Dont forget all kennedy products have lifetime warranty. If the cerakoting wears off over time they’ll redo it for free. Heck, they have cerakoted rubys and roundhouses that i bought og as copper for free (although, i have been a long time customer of theirs)

    They ARE high quality devices, but so are others, what really sets them apart for me is customer support, which is second to none in the industry


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  21. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    And the fact that you don't have to go on the five year monthly payment plan in order to afford one.
     
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  22. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Seems like here and other places on the webz are having a love fest with the new (and not so new) Kennedy stuff. For good reason though. I think the vindicator and the 2 post Kennedy atomizers are among the best pieces of vape gear ever built. I’m trying to figure out when I’ll be able to get a ruby21 to go with my vindicator/kennedy25 setup. Been waiting years for a high quality tube mech, rda setup to come around that would last a long time and be worth the money. Kennedy finally came through. Very glad it was them and not some big, greedy company that only cares about profit. And it’s not just the build quality. The performance is fantastic. By far my favorite direct lung vape.

    GET ONE!
     
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  23. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I am in Europe so would have to pay a lot in shipping to make use of that. But then, none of my products from Kennedy have been faulty so I can't complain, BUT... some people seem to wrongfully assume that a cerakoted finish should be capable to withstand regular use, even, if the skin of these people's hands is permeated with fine sand, concrete dust, metal dust, or etc. so often times you'll find that user error was the culprit, and, lifetime warranties still don't actually cover that. So, not pointing any fingers here, but I've seen other brands being put down in other discussion threads in the recent past due to 'issues' like this (which is why I thought I should mention anyway).
    Cost is still a relativity thing. My Vindicator Cobblestones isn't among the most affordable, good quality setups that I own, yet IMO it's worth the money or else I would've simply kept my wallet shut. :p
     
  24. dhomes

    dhomes Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    - Cerokote on copper DOES wear from regular / daily use (hands dirty, scratches, etc)

    - Kennedy HAS covered re-cerakoting on very worn down mods for me (roundhouse v1 and roundhouse 20700 free of charge, they even threw in new switches)

    - sorry you wouldnt be able to get the same of level of support being in europe, ain't kennedy's fault though

    my cerakote copper v21700 with CC switch + s&h was 175 or so, so i compare against mods in the below $200 range (Purge B2B v4, Vaping amp outlaw, SOI, dreamer ~below $100 but great mod!). I'll take the vindicator any day
     
  25. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    That's what I said. But if your hands aren't like sandpaper and you don't make any scratches or anything like that, then I would presume the cerakoting should stay in pristine condition, entirely, for several many years worth of daily use.
    Fair enough, but if your hands are constantly like sandaper, then I would presume it might take less than a few months of daily use before the cerakoting might be rubbed off pretty severely around the edges. I don't suppose they'll keep re-cerakoting your mods for you free of charge if you keep sending them all back multiple times per year, so, just something to be aware of IMO before anyone decides to go for a cerakoted mod (from ANY brand, for that matter...).
    No worries, I'm not blaming them in any way.
    My black cerakoted copper Vindicator 21700 full setup with the standard switch was €285 and the matching CC switch was an additional €90 so, in total, it's the equivalent of about $425 (standard price, as online sales of vaping products to consumers are banned in my country). The Cobblestones retails for €525 (about $595) here in Belgium, but I guess I've been lucky because I managed to get it a whole lot cheaper than that.
     
  26. dhomes

    dhomes Silver Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    - 595!!!!!!!!!! why oh why? wouldnt it be cheaper having someone bought it for you in the USA (like a fellow member) and have it ship to ya?

    - free cerakoting was an example (also forgot mentioning i got a ruby 20700 og as blem copper + they threw in free cerakoting before shipping on request), but also switches (3), ruby and RDA caps (2 new, free) and all in all just fast, nice service

    I'm not a fanboy of kennedy, i love the mods, i also a lot of other brands, just pointing i havent found anyway providing the CS support they have (love Vapeamp mods / Rig Mods, but their service is the worst)
     
  27. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    After you also factor in the shipping cost, import duty fee, and tax... no, it wouldn't be cheaper.
     
  28. minimag03

    minimag03 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah, y’all have convinced me. Seeing people be so passionate about a small/niche company reminds me of the smaller companies I dealt with in my other hobbies. Buying from a company like that was never a bad idea... and I want to support companies like that...

    Funny y’all mention the Ruby 21. Their release is what prompted me to get a Vindicator. But I knew it would be stupid of me to get one of those considering I’m a mech newb. But damn if those Rubies aren’t hottt...

    You gotta have the person in the US send it to you as a ‘gift’. At least that worked when I sold some expensive paintball equipment to a guy in France. But then again, that was the French lol. Dunno how strict the custom people are in your country...
     
  29. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Not starting with the ruby was smart. You get a Kennedy atomizer to go with the tube?
     
  30. DonBaldy

    DonBaldy Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I know I'll be getting either a Vindicator or the new Ruby as soon as funds allow.
     
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  31. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    In my country we get an exemption on gifts if the package contains only up to €45 total value. But like I said earlier, I was lucky enough that I managed to grab the Cobblestones a whole lot cheaper than regular price.
     
  32. minimag03

    minimag03 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Nope. I used to have a Kennedy but it was stolen out of my car last summer, along with all my other vape gear. It was the RDA that got me addicted to bottom AF RDAs. I seriously lost like $400 worth of Vape crap when that happened, a Luna squonk, Kennedy Trickster, 18650s, charger, juice, several cheap mods, everything. It was closer to $1000 once my computer and boots were added. To top it all off, the cops wouldn't even investigate it cause the thief had also taken a $4 prescription which was a controlled substance; as soon as I told the cop he literally closed his notebook and accused me of trying to get extra medication from my doctor and left :cuss2:. I might get a Kennedy when I have the extra funds, they just look too good with a Vindicator. But for now I have a few Phobia V1 RDAs I'm planning on using with the Vindicator. It should be a good match, and they have great flavor for a $10 RDA.

    This brings me to my next question:. I generally vape on finer gauge fused claptons (.2-.3) around 65-80 watts or 4.2 volts, just seems to be their sweet spot. So can I use those same builds on the Vindicator with fresh battery and get a similar vape I'm accustomed to (as in, the ramp-up will still be decently fast, vape will have similar warmth, etc)? Or will those builds perform totally differently in a mech? Everyone seems to go straight to .1 builds on their mechs, and I've never been a big 100w+ vaper. Plus the Phobia V1, and a lot of my other RDAs, doesn't really have the AF to support a 100w+ build.

    Also, what voltage do y'all use when calculating your builds? 4.2v from a fresh battery or the nominal 3.7v?
     
  33. BoomStick

    BoomStick Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Resistance measurements alone mean nothing, but I don’t think a .2 or .3 is going to work well for you regardless of coil geometry. Need some study time I think before jumping into a mechanical setup.
     
  34. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    For calculating the battery safety, navigate to 5:18 in this video:



    For calculating the power, you have to also factor in the voltage sag of the battery you select for vaping. An example.

    Vsag = "voltage sag"
    DC IR = "DC internal resistance"
    R = the combined resistance of the coil build and atomizer, and the mech mod's electric circuit, through which the battery current flows.

    The effective voltage equals the resting voltage of 4.2V, minus the voltage sag:
    V = 4.2V - Vsag

    Ohm's Law:
    I = V / R = [4.2V - Vsag] / R

    Also:
    R
    = V / I = [4.2V - Vsag] / I

    The voltage sag equals current times DC internal resistance:
    Vsag = I × DC IR

    For the Samsung 30T, DC IR = 11.6 mOhms = 0.0116 Ohms. Therefore,
    Vsag = I × 0.0116 Ohms

    Going back to Ohm's Law:
    I = (4.2V - [I × 0.0116 Ohms]) / R
    R
    = (4.2V - [I × 0.0116 Ohms]) / I

    Now, for the Samsung 30T, the CDR = 35A so in our theoretical example let's suppose that I = CDR = 35A.
    R = (4.2V - [35A × 0.0116 Ohms]) / 35A = 3.794V / 35A = 0.1084 Ohms.
    P = V × I = 3.794V × 35A = 132.79 watts.
    However, as we can see, the effective voltage in this theoretical example is 3.794V so actually that's something in between 4.2V and 3.7V.
    So this is why Mooch says to recommend to others to use 4.2V to calculate the safety, to give that additional margin that he mentions in his video.
    I.e., even if your Ohms reader is highly accurate, using 3.7V to calculate the safety would be guessing too low, that is, if using one Samsung 30T in the mech. So, according to this recommendation (i.e. the one that adds the extra safety margin, and that Mooch tells us to recommend to anyone who asks how much is "safe"), 0.11 Ohms would be considered "too unsafe" with a single 30T battery. Whereas 0.12 Ohms isn't, as 4.2V / 0.12 Ohms = 35A, the CDR of the 30T.

    Next, let's try something else.
    I = V / R = [4.2V - Vsag] / R
    I
    = (4.2V - [I × DC IR]) / R
    I
    × R = 4.2V - [I × DC IR]
    I × R + [I × DC IR] = 4.2V
    I × [R + DC IR] = 4.2V
    I = 4.2V / [R + DC IR]

    Finally, let's try R = 0.18 Ohms, just for another theoretical example (still assuming one Samsung 30T).
    I = 4.2V / [0.18 Ohms + 0.0116 Ohms] = 4.2V / 0.1916 Ohms = 21.92A
    V = I × R = 21.92A × 0.18 Ohms = 3.946V
    P = V × I = 3.946V × 21.92A = 86.49 watts.

    Hopefully this helps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  35. minimag03

    minimag03 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Ahh alright. Special thank to @Carambrda for explaining it so clearly. Most of the examples I've read about didn't take voltage sag into consideration (last time I looked into mechs was like 3 years ago when I first started vaping). I knew there would be added resistance from the RDA and mech tube, and that it created a safety buffer, but I don't recall a numerical value being involved in the process. But I was just trying to be safe by making sure it would be okay to use 4.2v to make calculations.

    I have some SS quad cores that come out to .17 on dual builds at room temperature. Those sounds like they will work perfectly for me when combined with a 30T. They should give me plenty of head room to play around with, plus the additional buffer of using SS wire. I hope the SS resistance increasing won't be too much of a headache, cause I've got LOTS of SS wire.

    Thanks again for clearing that up guys. It's one thing to read about this crap online, but experiences of people using modern equipment (30Ts, higher quality mechs, more accurate calculations, etc) is irreplaceable while my face is not. I'll be damned before I become one of those stories on the 6:00pm news about how vapes explode and maim people lol
     
  36. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Question 1: Yes, get the Vindicator 21

    Question 2: If you buy two 21700 batteries with it, you might never Stop using it

    I bought a SS Vindicator after using a brass clone for a couple months - I only sold it because the clone worked just as well and I needed dollars more than a $120 mod
     
    DonBaldy likes this.

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