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The Official Alien Coil Thread

Discussion in 'Coil Building' started by Johnny VapeStand, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I must admit; I don't spin larger gauges than 26g cores. That's my sweet spot, and I build for me lol. But I may experiment with larger gauges to see if my theories apply to larger cores as well. Thanks for pointing that out! I appreciate it! 20180217_145711.jpg

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  2. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Question! Less is more when stretching decore, and as you add more cores then, and a lighter grip needed, that means more stretch/less room for error as the number of cores goes up?

    Thanks for the tip about mastering perfect clapton; after I made my first nice 36awg wrap alien I decided to jump to 40 and 46 awg for different builds - I need to master just claptoning those before trying aliens with them again I see. Me going too far ahead too fast

    Using 38 last night felt like trying to clapton with an electric bass string lol :D
     
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  3. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I never change my stretch. Only my grip on the decore. My reference to more cores was to things like mohawks, round core squaliens, pentaliens, sextaliens, etc. Flat aliens with more than 3 cores require a tighter grip in my experience. The change in the stretch happens as the decore is applied to the alien wire itself.

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  4. Shredtravolta

    Shredtravolta VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    To your point, if I make a regular mohawk alien I have to put almost no tension on the decore at all or it just simply will not stay in the groove. It's a different feeling than regular aliens for sure. If I'm going to do them, and I'm not great at them, but if I am going to do them I make a circle with my index finger and my thumb and close the circle to the point that the wire is being guided, but the only tension on the wire comes from the friction of the decore running across my skin. Any more tension and it just won't work for me.
     
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  5. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I don't quite do it that way. Sounds like you're stretching it too much for a Mohawk. Remember; less is more on the stretch. The 5 core Pentalien in the photo above, still required a little (very little) tension. Understretching can be compensated for in decore grip; overstretching ends up in the recycling bin...

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  6. Shredtravolta

    Shredtravolta VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Could be, I definitely stretch the decore less than I would a regular alien, but I'll try stretching it even less and see if that doesn't help. As I admitted its not my best build, but I'll see if I can't take some of your advice and make some mohawks when I get a chance and I'll post them in the post your builds thread if I get a decent pair. Thanks for the tip:banana:
     
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  7. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I also like that little pocket in the index finger, the wire feels secure without actually being Held, and I can feel the higher gauges going through better without any tension

    Vaperoxx, just want to clarify...more cores like 6, lighter or tighter grip? You meant lighter in that second post right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  8. jasonandsarah

    jasonandsarah Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I think Mohawks belong here? Right? Ive always considered them a form of alien but maybe I'm wrong.
    One time I tried claptoning a .8 piece of ribbon and using that as my Mohawk wrap. I know it sounds kinda funny but I thought it would give the Mohawk a higher spike and it actully kinda did... I think. Unfortunately it was very hard to decore the ribbon so I only got very small sections of good looking Mohawk.

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  9. Shredtravolta

    Shredtravolta VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    BTW VAPEROXX you were completely correct, if you stretch the decore way less it makes the regular mohawk super easy. I got three inches I was on my way, annnnnnd my drill died. So I'm gonna recharge it and do it again and I'll post when I'm done. Awesome tip.:bingo:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  10. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Flat aliens: more cores/tighter grip
    Rond aliens: more cores/lighter grip (mohawks, squaliens etc)

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  11. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I'm very glad that worked for you! Keep spinning!

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  12. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    The flat wire version of the Mohawk is known as a Razorback coil friend. Happy spinning!

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  13. jasonandsarah

    jasonandsarah Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    No no no no no... lol I wrapped round wire around a piece of ribbon. Then tried to decore the round wire and wrap it like a reg Mohawk.

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  14. VAPEROXX

    VAPEROXX Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Oh...never heard of that one lol. Name that one yourself if you get it to work.

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  15. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Itty bitty 3x32/46

    Screenshot_20180327-134004.png
    That's an envelope behind it
    Screenshot_20180327-135959.png

    For a kanger rba in a BB Box, putting it in and taking it out again just to color it is pretty silly lol
    I got a 10x loupe coming in the mail tomorrow lol :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  16. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    great work, thats hard as fuck lol. 32/42 alien is my new favorite build for the kayfun. how do you like it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  17. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I'm not sure yet, I think I should have wrapped it with a bigger ID for the kanger rba...I was gonna put it in the speed revolution mini but decided the 2 x .3/46 I have in there is just so rad I didn't want to take it out lol - that's my favorite build for tight draw mtl, 2mm ID 2x.3 fused, 5 wraps, it crackles like a pack of firecrackers and it heats/cools So fast

    I think I'll try 2x32 next time, I might like that better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  18. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I should just make a regular fat alien with 38 wrap shouldn't I? I know I could make a clean one, I just don't want to, why am I so crazy? :oops:
     
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  19. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    lol you have been working with 40+ from the start havnt you? i imagine you could do 38 with broken hands at this point. it feels much easier going back up imo.

    i still have that 36/46 stick kicking around here that i have been meaning to try. i actually lost it on my desk for a week or so because its so small...
     
  20. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Lmao! I should put the rest of the stick I made somewhere better than on my table then, I'll end up thinking it's scrap wire

    Not the very beginning, I got that sample pack from KBee with 100ft 32, 34 and 36, after that yep, it was a really good deal
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  21. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    yeah i found my little alien wire under some tools when i was cleaning up, almost threw it out (but i am fastidious about wire ends laying around so i 'knew' it shouldnt be one and looked closer). yeah going back up to 38 or 36 will feel funny to you probably. i usually build in 38 or higher no matter the build, but i when i did that set of polished aliens i used 34 so i could get a nice thick polished side and making them felt like cheating. you can see the wire, spacing, stretch and everything perfectly fine lol and holy shit it wraps up fast (its twice as thick as 40 so it takes up twice as much room at the same rpm).
     
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  22. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    I did make some decores with my new spool 38 the other day, it felt like an electric bass string
     
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  23. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    [​IMG]
     
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  24. jasonandsarah

    jasonandsarah Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The fatties are easy peasy! Those 3x32g your doing are flipping amazing so keep doing those beauties. My wife has a BB so I know just how small that deck is that you put the alien in. For anyone that doesn't know the BB deck, it's freakin tiny so that alien is a tiny work of art imo.

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  25. CrazyChef v2.0

    CrazyChef v2.0 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    [​IMG]
     
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  26. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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  27. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Hi guys, I've ordered the spin lt and the dual core jig from USA ohm reader and I was wondering if there's anything I need to know about using them? Thanks
     
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  28. mach1ne

    mach1ne Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    i cant think of any tips off the top of my head. i use a variety of methods to hold my build on the spinLT, from a paper clip, a loop of wire, i have stuck the wire right through/folded directly over the eyelet etc. i find if i pull too much on the drill, the spinLT jams up pretty easy. i go back and forth between using my swivels on it for backup/redundancy, and not using them at all. i have put two drops of machine oil into it since i got it, but im not even sure if i needed to. make sure to clamp it/screw it onto something very sturdy, and at the same height as your drills chuck.

    i had the chucky clamp from them, but i have not seen/heard anything about the dual core holder. the chucky (or any drill chuck) clamp is a great tool. mine lasted almost a year and ended up shearing in half. there are metal ones over at rays builders boutique shop, but they are currently sold out from the look of it.
     
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  29. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Yeah I thought anything that helps putting wires into the chuck would be a good idea. If I have any success I'll post a pic of the setup. Thanks.
     
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  30. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    A hand vise also works just as well can pick those up from amazon if you didn’t want to wait
     
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  31. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    I'm using a vice now, got 3 fishing swivels with ball bearings but I was told these work better. Time will tell!
     
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  32. ScReWbALL

    ScReWbALL Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I’m a bit old school, and as most folks around here have surmised, I’m assuming, I enjoy building freehand with the drill rather than a swivel setup.
    That being said, inserting the wires into the chuck side should be pretty universal, to a point.
    My technique is based on Squidoods tutorial for building Aliens on his “Art of Vaping” YouTube channel.
    This is how I get mine centered (I apologize in advance for all of the pics, but I’m horrible with trying to explain things out loud).
    Also, it should be noted, this is just a method I use for triple core 26/36 N80 Aliens, but I don’t see where it would be an issue with other variations:
    I bind my 3 cores with Frog Tape (or masking tape/painters tape if I’m out)
    [​IMG]
    Then I gently cramp the taped portion with pliers, but not hard enough to cause the cores to move it separate [​IMG]
    So that I end up with this[​IMG]
    I insert that end into the chuck but NOT centered (yet)...I insert the into the flat portion of the chuck, again, making sure not to over tighten which moves the cores
    [​IMG]
    Then I wrap enough decore around it to where I am far enough away from the chuck to start using my guide hand...then, remove the cores from the chuck and center them[ more precise[​IMG]
    In my experience, once you get that first inch or two wrapped with your decore, the remaining cores stiffen up and stay in place.
    There’s a possibility that the only reason it works for me if that I have shorter core wire and only make sticks if Alien Wire one coil at a time.


    How dare you incinerate that I don’t know how to use big words!
     
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  33. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Great write up mate!
     
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  34. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks, I work better with pics too. Poor imagination! I think 1 problem I have is I get advice from 1 person. Give it a bit of a go, then someone else says something different so I try that and so on. I'm at a stage where I can get an inch or 2 aliened correctly and then it overlaps. I, think this is to do with my angle and my tension. But I do, need to get my cores centred a bit better. I started with Squiddoodes method and had some success so I'll try this again until I get tools from USA ohm readers. Thanks for the input.
     
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  35. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The reason why the SpinLT (or similar jig that uses a ball bearing normally used for skateboarding) works better than fishing swivels is this... any weight added to your cores just slows you down, especially if you use higher gauge Ni80 for your cores. With fishing svivels you have to put more tension on the drill and or you have to turn the drill at a lower speed to prevent the added weight of the fishing swivels from swinging the cores around like a skipping cord. Putting more tension on the drill causes more friction so you end up having more twist. Too much twist causes the cores to want to bunch up and collapse so, to prevent that from happening, you have to use some kind of slider to keep the cores flat. To be able to move the slider another step forward, you have to pause/resume the drill. Resuming the drill is usually when flurbs happen (at least, for me). Further, the faster turning speed of the drill is what helps tremendously to make the alien wrap fall into place effortlessly and butter-smooth if your decore is perfect and the amount of stretch in your decore is perfect. So, slowing down the drill to prevent the weight added to the cores from swinging around like a skipping cord is not among the brightest of solutions that work. Instead, you'll be better off by not using any sliders at all.

    The 2 outside cores are a single piece of core wire that I loop around my swivel, and that measures a few inches longer than double the length of my middle core I used for making my clapton. After creating equal tension on the cores, I hold the equal tension with pliers. Next, whilst still holding the equal tension, I trim the ends to equal lengths with cutters, and, whilst still holding the equal tension, I use additional pliers to cleanly twist these ends together so centering the ends into the drill is child's play. I then start aliening right away, so no sliders or anything, and I pinch it flat a few times until it stays flat. From that moment on, I go full speed on the drill. I only stop after I see that it flurbs─which it almost never does─or after my build is finished. Sliders are intended for those who hate to make things easier on themselves.
     
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  36. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Hey guys, i keep having a recurring problem. My core wires keep folding in on themselves. Forming a triangle. I've got everything else right. I'm stretching my wrap right, I'm getting cores into drill right, I'm using 3 fishing ball bearings on the other end. I'll get an inch or 2 of beautifully wrapped wire, then i start having trouble. Every time! How do i fix this, it's driving me nuts! Thank you.
     
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  37. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    P. S, I've got a lt spin coming in the mail, will that help/fix this problem?
     
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  38. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    And I've read the Mge from carambrda but my cores don't flap around so i don't know if or what the cause is. So frustrating.
     
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  39. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    You might try holding the decore with a more relaxed grip as you let it feed onto the cores

    Alien wrap stretches itself pretty easily, even with a gentle touch, if it won't go on right for you then stretch it a bit more before you begin spinning


    Best idea though is Hold your decore more gently and stretch more before you begin, if needed - the alien wrap will keep the cores nice and flat as long as you don't put too much tension on it

    How close is your hand to the cores when you're wrapping the alien? Try holding it a little farther back if you are very close

    If all else fails -

    If your wrap wire is thicker than 36 gauge, you may need to bind your cores flat with some ribbon wire or fine wire, wrap wire around an end, crimp it flat with pliers, and slide it up to just ahead of where you are wrapping, pause spinning and slide the binding wire along as needed
     
  40. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    One more thing is tension on the cores between the drill and your swivels, try to get it as tight as you can with your swivels still spinning smoothly
     
  41. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks, i think i might need to stretch my decore a bit more. I'm holding it about 10-12 inches away but i think I'm applying too much tension. That's why it works when close to the drill and then starts to form a triangle. This would explain it. I thought i was stretching it enough but I'm obviously not. I Always worry about overstretching. No-one said this was an easy build! And I've run out of 36g so I'm using 40g. Any difference? Thanks for the advice
     
  42. zephyr

    zephyr Dirty Pirate Meg VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    40 gauge will just take longer, and you can hold it even more gently - you won't have to stretch it as much before spinning it onto the cores either, as you would 36 gauge

    and if you still have trouble, try holding your hand closer! I know that doesn't make sense, but trying something different is how to figure out what works for you
     
  43. KarmicRage

    KarmicRage Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    If you've got any of these lying around you could try using one or two of them to keep your cores flat. The ribbon slider trick works really well like but you have to not apply too much pressure when you're crimping or it will grip the core wires as you're trying to slide it. Only differences between 36g and 40g decore, as meg said, it how hard you hold the decore as you're wrapping it on and also your angle. It's much easier to double back on yourself with the thinner gauges so keeping a leading angle is pretty much essential[​IMG]

    Sent from my MI MAX 2 using Tapatalk
     
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  44. jasonandsarah

    jasonandsarah Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Either or will help[​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
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  45. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks people, I'll try again today. And again. And again.
     
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  46. ScReWbALL

    ScReWbALL Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    How long are the core wires you’re using?


    How dare you incinerate that I don’t know how to use big words!
     
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  47. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Around 10 inches. Too long?
     
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  48. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Must resist.....

    Try 6 it might help to shorten them a bit
     
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  49. ScReWbALL

    ScReWbALL Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I freehand, so, don’t have to make extra tengtg to wrap around swivels, but here’s a pic I found...kinda hard to see the numbers on the table, but I think 6-7 inches long is my max length for cores and that give me 5-6 inch sticks of alien wire good for 6 or 7 wraps (3 26ga cores with 36ga decore)
    [​IMG]


    How dare you incinerate that I don’t know how to use big words!
     
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  50. Guyando115

    Guyando115 Bronze Contributor

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    Hmm, not sure I'm up to free handing it but if i make them smaller then i might be able to keep core wires tighter. I'll use your method for inserting i to drill and see how i go. Thanks.
     

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