THE "we need to start a Titanium coils on the Temp control mods thread"

[dingo1799]

You're welcome.....lol

first ti wire build. .5mm gr 1, 3mm coil, 9 wraps with rayon wix, at 35w its struggling to get to the set 350 deg temp... gonna tear it out and redo with 7 coils, maybe spaced..... i like less watts!

mods, can we get a pin on this?

 

[Ryedan]

My first Ti build on a Mutation X using 28 gauge on a 3mm pin,7/6 wraps, through the post holes at 0.23 ohms. It was great for a day then the resistance suddenly doubled. A negative post screw had broken a wire. I redid it the same way using the screw heads of the neg posts and the hole through the positive post and it's been really stable for a day now.

Springy stuff and the coils look like hell until I put the cotton in and space the coils out. The cotton started to just singe a bit at 410 deg F which surprised me because I thought it would be lower than that. Temperature at 40 watts with wet wicks never goes over 320 so I have it set at 330. Vapes well, but I think I get better flavor using 27 gauge Kanthal at 0.8 ohms. Temperature protection is really not needed in this build because I find I taste it when the coils go a bit dry before the temperature protection kicks in anyway.

 

[Smoky Blue]

so which wire is best for the temp control mods??

 

[dingo1799]

My first Ti build on a Mutation X using 28 gauge on a 3mm pin,7/6 wraps, through the post holes at 0.23 ohms. It was great for a day then the resistance suddenly doubled. A negative post screw had broken a wire. I redid it the same way using the screw heads of the neg posts and the hole through the positive post and it's been really stable for a day now.

Springy stuff and the coils look like hell until I put the cotton in and space the coils out. The cotton started to just singe a bit at 410 deg F which surprised me because I thought it would be lower than that. Temperature at 40 watts with wet wicks never goes over 320 so I have it set at 330. Vapes well, but I think I get better flavor using 27 gauge Kanthal at 0.8 ohms. Temperature protection is really not needed in this build because I find I taste it when the coils go a bit dry before the temperature protection kicks in anyway.

Just curious, but why would you switch from ni200 to ti and only get 27ga? I thought the whole point of using ti wire was because ni is a pain in the ass at 30 ga?

 

[dingo1799]

so which wire is best for the temp control mods??

Nickel wire is what temp control is made for, but 30-32 ga nickel is about as strong as a wet noodle. I imagine the guys at Evolv reading forums laughing their asses off saying something to the effect of "lookit these assclowns actually trying to wrap coils with 32ga nickel wire HAHAHAHAH"

Ti wire will work with temp control, but the temp offset is about 100deg. I've got .5mm ti wire, about the equivalent of 24ga, I'm still on my first build, trying to get spacing proper n such, but it seems to work just as good as ni200 without the flimsiness.

 

[Smoky Blue]

what would be good for a 26-27g wire?

 

[Ryedan]

Just curious, but why would you switch from ni200 to ti and only get 27ga? I thought the whole point of using ti wire was because ni is a pain in the ass at 30 ga?

The 27 gauge is Kanthal. I'm using 28 gauge Ti and have used 28 gauge Ni but in a single coil build.

I'm new to temperature limited builds and am very much in experimentation mode still. I picked 28 gauge because at the time I thought it was a good place to start for what I thought I would build first

 

[Ryedan]

I've got .5mm ti wire, about the equivalent of 24ga, I'm still on my first build, trying to get spacing proper n such, but it seems to work just as good as ni200 without the flimsiness.

How does the 0.5mm Ti build? Are you able to wrap easily or is the springiness a real problem?

 

[dingo1799]

It's a little springy, but absolutely nothing like 24 ga kanthal or nichrome, VERY manageable

 

[Ryedan]

what would be good for a 26-27g wire?

Well as I said I'm still pretty new at this, but here's I look at it now. Using 26 gauge Ni on a 3mm pin you would need 13 wraps to make a 0.12 ohm coil. Most of these devices don't do well below 0.10 ohm so 0.12 is the lowest I would aim for. On a 2.5mm pin you're at 15 wraps.

Using 27 gauge on a 3mm pin you would need 11 wraps and 12 on 2.5mm. I think most people use spaced coils instead of contact for the extra dependability and that makes the coils even longer. Setting up for dual coils doubles the number of wraps so that's out for these wire gauges in Ni.

I think it really depends on what you want to build within the. I chose 28 gauge in Ni because that makes a single coil with 9 wraps on 3mm for 0.12 ohms and I thought that was m, but I had a hard time with the soft wire breaking until I folded over the coil tails. If you have an atty that lets you trap the wires under the head of a screw I think that makes this a lot easier. I like dual coil setups and that's why I went with the 28 gauge in Ti for the build I have in the picture.

The other thing to take into account is coil heat up time. The dual coil Ti setup in my pic has surprisingly noticeable heat up delay at 40 watts. It's less than a second, but it's there and I was not expecting it. Using 24 gauge Ti is physically doable, but I think it would make the delay long enough at 40 watts that I really wouldn't like it.

And that's all I've got. Hopefully there's not too much BS in there, but I did warn you I'm new at this

 

[Ryedan]

It's a little springy, but absolutely nothing like 24 ga kanthal or nichrome, VERY manageable

dingo1799, are you saying that 24 gauge Ti wire is comparable in springiness to 24 gauge Kanthal? I really like working with 24 g Kanthal when I can.

 

[dingo1799]

dingo1799, are you saying that 24 gauge Ti wire is comparable in springiness to 24 gauge Kanthal? I really like working with 24 g Kanthal when I can.

Idk if anyone else does, but when I wrap wire I "pretend" to continue wrapping past the point of the end of the coil to offset the wires spring, with ti wire, it's less than half a wrap of springyness, if that makes any sense.

On another note, I've trashed 5 sets of coils so far, first set were contact, all the rest have been spaced. I'm putting all 40 watts to them and barely hitting 300deg according to the DNA. Last pair I made were on a 4mm fine threaded bolt, winds up with an inside diameter of a little more than 3mm, 10 wraps, came out to like .24...I took one back out and ran in single coil, and finally got to 320 deg temp set at 24ish watts, but it started tasting bad and getting too hot for me. Gonna scrap all of it up til now and try again later today going back to contact coils. 10 spaced in a CEO Fog is too much. I also haven't been dry firing new wire. Going to try that too, just enough to make it glow a little n make sure there's no hotspots. Messing around last night with it I dry fired the first set of spaced coils at 40w, my atty turned into a lightbulb, wire cooled off and it had yellow flakes on it, and it lost ALL springyness and turned into a cracker lol. I kind of figured it'd pop, but oh well, it was neat to see

 

[Ryedan]

Idk if anyone else does, but when I wrap wire I "pretend" to continue wrapping past the point of the end of the coil to offset the wires spring, with ti wire, it's less than half a wrap of springyness, if that makes any sense.

Got it, thanks. With 28 gauge I go past about the same amount and I thought it would be a lot worse with thicker wire.

On another note, I've trashed 5 sets of coils so far, first set were contact, all the rest have been spaced. I'm putting all 40 watts to them and barely hitting 300deg according to the DNA. Last pair I made were on a 4mm fine threaded bolt, winds up with an inside diameter of a little more than 3mm, 10 wraps, came out to like .24...I took one back out and ran in single coil, and finally got to 320 deg temp set at 24ish watts, but it started tasting bad and getting too hot for me. Gonna scrap all of it up til now and try again later today going back to contact coils. 10 spaced in a CEO Fog is too much. I also haven't been dry firing new wire. Going to try that too, just enough to make it glow a little n make sure there's no hotspots. Messing around last night with it I dry fired the first set of spaced coils at 40w, my atty turned into a lightbulb, wire cooled off and it had yellow flakes on it, and it lost ALL springyness and turned into a cracker lol. I kind of figured it'd pop, but oh well, it was neat to see

The wire temperature doesn't surprise me at this point. My build in post #2 typically runs at 310'ish with wet wicks and that's using the 28 gauge Ti. Even if I fire it without inhaling for 4-5 seconds and watch the readout. Spits like crazy too but I have no issue with that other than it's really loud. I'm running it at 40 watts and it's what I consider a warm vape.

I think when using Ti in these mods the actual temperature is higher than indicated because they are calibrated for Ni. I was surprised that cotton didn't start to change color in mine until I took it to 410 with Ti because I thought cotton starts to singe around 410 and using Ti set at 410 was probably closer to 510 deg at the coil. Maybe I remember the cotton singe temperature wrong, otherwise I have no idea what's up with that.

I don't really care what temperature it indicates as long as it vapes like I want it to, it's not burning juice and it's dependable. I vaped my atty almost dry a couple of times just for shits and giggles (it's really neat to be able to do that) and it works correctly, no burnt juice as the power was pulled down.

Hope it works out for you later on

 

[OBDave]

Just out of random curiosity from a non-temp-limited guy, but isn't titanium prohibitively expensive? Where does one even source ti wire from? Just thinking back to the obscene cost of titanium in my performance cycling days...

 

[dingo1799]

Just out of random curiosity from a non-temp-limited guy, but isn't titanium prohibitively expensive? Where does one even source ti wire from? Just thinking back to the obscene cost of titanium in my performance cycling days...

I got 50ft of grade 1 ti wire for $12, bout same price as ni200, on Amazon

 

[Ryedan]

Just out of random curiosity from a non-temp-limited guy, but isn't titanium prohibitively expensive? Where does one even source ti wire from? Just thinking back to the obscene cost of titanium in my performance cycling days...

I bought both Ni and Ti from zivipf-eu on Ebay UK. They are the only company I know of that sells both wires so I could combine shipping, prices are comparable to Kanthal for me in Canada, the shipping to Canada is reasonable and fairly quick (under 2 weeks) and I bought Kanthal and SS mesh from them a couple of years ago so I knew them. There might be a better source out there, but this worked well for me.

 

[OBDave]

Wow, that's actually really reasonable.

 

[Maverik_X]

So does titanium wire actually work on dna40 and YiHi chips? if so what are the benefiets of it over nickel? thanks

 

[Ryedan]

So does titanium wire actually work on dna40 and YiHi chips? if so what are the benefiets of it over nickel? thanks

I've been vaping Ti builds in a Mutation X and a Lemo on a VS DNA40 and a Vapor Flask clone with a Kangxin board for a bit over a week now. I don't have a YiHi mod. It works fine in both of my mods, but the temperature is not accurate so you have to take that into account.

Nickel is really soft compared to Kanthal. Titanium is harder than Ni and softer than Kanthal. With Ni I find it's really hard to trap wire in a post hole without cutting it with the post screw. If I can trap the wire under a screw head it works much better, but I actually find it's so soft the coil can also droop down over time in the atty. I switched to Ti before I tried to address that.

Ti also has higher resistance so I can build dual coil setups with it. It's an alternative to Ni that is working well for me for now, but it's still early times for me with temperature sensing.

 

[Maverik_X]

@Ryedan
Thanks for the info I have been using mostly 28g ni200 have tried 30 & 32g and just feel like the 28g is the best fit for me. How much of difference are we talking about in the temp? I think i read somewhere that you can also use stainless steel or maybe it was silver plated wire or something to that effect aswell.

 

[Ryedan]

@Ryedan
Thanks for the info I have been using mostly 28g ni200 have tried 30 & 32g and just feel like the 28g is the best fit for me. How much of difference are we talking about in the temp? I think i read somewhere that you can also use stainless steel or maybe it was silver plated wire or something to that effect aswell.

You're welcome Meverik_X. What I'm finding is that cotton starts to scorch between 310-320 F with Ti. AFAIK from reading about other people checking this with Ni wire that means my Ti is really at about 410 F. Once the wick is wet the cotton will never really become completely dry again so you can set higher than the dry cotton scorch point. I've run as high as 360 without burning my 70% PG juice.

I haven't tried or read about using SS. I have tried twisting Kanthal and Ni though and that works too. I've only done it once though using 27 gauge Kanthal and 28 gauge Ni which was a bit too much wire. Going to vape that for a while and then try 31 gauge Kanthal with the 28 Ni and see if I like that better. This combination also scorched cotton at 310.

 

[Maverik_X]

Ryedan
Thanks for the info m8 appreciate it, I think I remember seeing it in a youtube video with pbusardo and brandon from evolv were discussing the dna40 and what wire would work.
I have heard good things about twisted kanthal with nickel gonna give that a try on my next build. thinking 28g nickel and 32g kanthal outta work ok.

 

[Zamazam]

The whole point of using NI200 is that the electrical properties of the wire have been designed into the board level programming for temperature control. By using wire other than Ni200, the mod may not be accurate, nor control temperature all that accurate as well evidenced by ryedan singeing his cotton at 410 degrees.

 

[Maverik_X]

The whole point of using NI200 is that the electrical properties of the wire have been designed into the board level programming for temperature control. By using wire other than Ni200, the mod may not be accurate, nor control temperature all that accurate as well evidenced by ryedan singeing his cotton at 410 degrees.

Didn't think about that way I do hope that maybe YiHi will come out with a update to allow us to accuratly control Ti & Others for temp control.

 

[Ryedan]

The whole point of using NI200 is that the electrical properties of the wire have been designed into the board level programming for temperature control. By using wire other than Ni200, the mod may not be accurate, nor control temperature all that accurate as well evidenced by ryedan singeing his cotton at 410 degrees.

Temperature calibration is always off when using anything other than Ni wire, but it hasn't bothered me yet. I do a rough calibration to see where cotton singes and then go from there. The advantage I'm finding is I can clamp wire in post holes and get good stable contact which helps keep the temperature stable with attys that don't have big enough screw heads to use. It's working well for me so far, but YMMV as always

 

[Ryedan]

Didn't think about that way I do hope that maybe YiHi will come out with a update to allow us to accuratly control Ti & Others for temp control.

It would be very nice to be able to chose wire type on the mod. Let's hope it doesn't take them long to do that.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Didn't think about that way I do hope that maybe YiHi will come out with a update to allow us to accuratly control Ti & Others for temp control.

That would be a huge Challenge. Ni200 is used because the temperature and resistance have a linear relationship. As the temp rises so does the resistance.
Titanium, will work obviously and it works well, only problem is there is not a relationship between the resistance and heat.
In other words it works but its not real temp limiting. That's why you're having to drop it down to 200 and 300 degrees to use.


For all the work it would take to do that, i would rather they found a way to make temp limiting work with kanthal. It would probably be just as difficult but much more practical.

In the Interest of disclosure I did try using it and didn't find a build I liked, but a friend of mine is all about it

 

[sdmf74]

I saw no mention of tempered nickel wire in this thread have any of you guys tried using 27 or 28 gauge tempered nickel. SV and LV have it and Temco will be releasing it soon in the US starting with 28 gauge.it work very well compared to to annealed NI200.
Now that devices with TI Support are being releaseD I wonder if Evolv is working on a new chip with support for TI.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I use tempered 28 and 26--highly recommended!!!

--and a working screen

 

[sdmf74]

Yeah 27 tempered been workin great.havent bought 26awg yet. How many wraps you using with the 26awg tempered?

I have found that wrapping 4mm coils helps too.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I stay at 3mm... Found that to be ideal when I got the dna40. Im wrapping 7/8 wraps for single coil and 12 on dual.
In my aqua I stick with 2.5 mm because of the build deck

 

[sdmf74]

ONLY 7/8 wraps with 26awg tempered?? That has to be a super low ohm build, especially if they are 2.5mm

 

[jeallen0]

We just got 26g Ti wire in the shop I manage. I put together a 12 wrap dual coil around a 2.4mm screwdriver. Resistance is reading out to 0.28 cold, running it at 60w and 600f on a Vapor Tech Kratos and the flavor is on par with similar Ni200 builds I've done. I can confirm that the resistance does increase as the wire heats up. Cold it sits at 0.28 and hot around 0.49-0.54. When reducing the temp to 410 the cotton doesn't even get close to burning.

 

[Berko360]

Hey, just got Ti. Wire for my Ipv4s, I'm wondering if anyone else has used the IPV4 with Ti. Wire.. I know after there recent firmware update you need To. Wire to crank up the joules to 100
So I bought a spool of spider silk Ti wire and I'm itching to build my coils (or coil), does anyone have any pointers for me? Should the could be spaced like Nickle or tight line kanthol? I have a bunch of rdas but I'm planning to build on my royal hunter. I will browse this page looking for answers, just wondering what other people have experienced so far with Ti. Coils on IPV4 (with the new update). I know to keep an eye out for Ti. Dioxide, never dry burn Etc..
I think I read that the gauge of Ti. Coil doesn't make much of a difference instead it's the width of the loops in the coil (and the amount of wraps obviously), when it comes to resistance? Is that true?

Thanks for any hello guys and gals!

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Hey, just got Ti. Wire for my Ipv4s, I'm wondering if anyone else has used the IPV4 with Ti. Wire.. I know after there recent firmware update you need To. Wire to crank up the joules to 100
So I bought a spool of spider silk Ti wire and I'm itching to build my coils (or coil), does anyone have any pointers for me? Should the could be spaced like Nickle or tight line kanthol? I have a bunch of rdas but I'm planning to build on my royal hunter. I will browse this page looking for answers, just wondering what other people have experienced so far with Ti. Coils on IPV4 (with the new update). I know to keep an eye out for Ti. Dioxide, never dry burn Etc..
I think I read that the gauge of Ti. Coil doesn't make much of a difference instead it's the width of the loops in the coil (and the amount of wraps obviously), when it comes to resistance? Is that true?

Thanks for any hello guys and gals!

The gauge of wire? Or inner diameter of coil? Either way, yes it does.
You can make contact or spaced coils. In wattage mode (for contact coils) you can quickly pulse until glowing to pinch out hotspots, it'll turn green/blue. If it turns white you've gone too far that's what you don't want, blue/green is fine

 

[Berko360]

The gauge of wire? Or inner diameter of coil? Either way, yes it does.
You can make contact or spaced coils. In wattage mode (for contact coils) you can quickly pulse until glowing to pinch out hotspots, it'll turn green/blue. If it turns white you've gone too far that's what you don't want, blue/green is fine

Thanks for the heads up about the color changes that's what I was mostly concerned about.. so if I understand you right your saying that ti coils should be spaced if they are going to be used in joules mode (about the same spacing as if it was Nickel wire?), and if I want to use it in watts mode the coils should be tight? I appreciate the help! Oh one other question for everyone; when using titanium coils in joules mode- how many degrees F is too much (at what temp does the coil start to turn white)?
Thanks again for your help

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Thanks for the heads up about the color changes that's what I was mostly concerned about.. so if I understand you right your saying that ti coils should be spaced if they are going to be used in joules mode (about the same spacing as if it was Nickel wire?), and if I want to use it in watts mode the coils should be tight? I appreciate the help! Oh one other question for everyone; when using titanium coils in joules mode- how many degrees F is too much (at what temp does the coil start to turn white)?
Thanks again for your help

No no, you use wattage mod to "prep" the ti. Don't use it in wattage mode it will get too hot! In temperature control you use ti contact or spaced.
If your mod has a TI mode, you're good up to 600°. That coil won't even come close to glowing. If you only have ni mode I'd say 500° to be safe. Ti in ni mode has about a 100° offset. For example, in ni mode using Ti, 350° would be more like 450°.

 

[AmandaD]

No no, you use wattage mod to "prep" the ti. Don't use it in wattage mode it will get too hot! In temperature control you use ti contact or spaced.
If your mod has a TI mode, you're good up to 600°. That coil won't even come close to glowing. If you only have ni mode I'd say 500° to be safe. Ti in ni mode has about a 100° offset. For example, in ni mode using Ti, 350° would be more like 450°.

I've read that, but in my experience a Ti coil I can vape at 500-550 in Ti mode only seems to work for me at 300-330 in Ni mode.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

I've read that, but in my experience a Ti coil I can vape at 500-550 in Ti mode only seems to work for me at 300-330 in Ni mode.

What mod are you using?

 

[AmandaD]

What mod are you using?

The only one I have now that has a Ti setting is the SX mini. I run those TI coils sometimes on the Sigelei 75 or the Istick 40 (which both have Ni settings only).

 

[CurlyxCracker]

The only one I have now that has a Ti setting is the SX mini. I run those TI coils sometimes on the Sigelei 75 or the Istick 40 (which both have Ni settings only).

Now that I tried it in ni mode (same mod) I go about 360-370 in ni, 450-500 in ti mode

 

[AmandaD]

Now that I tried it in ni mode (same mod) I go about 360-370 in ni, 450-500 in ti mode

Makes sense - probably the difference in juice/coil/wicking!

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Makes sense - probably the difference in juice/coil/wicking!

It's the same rta

 

[TheVapingDevil]

Just tried ti coil on the D2 in ti mode. Gotta say I enjoy it better in ni200 mode with temp offset. :/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[AmandaD]

It's the same rta

I'm using a Billow V2 now!

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I'm using a Billow V2 now!

How's that working for you today?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[AmandaD]

How's that working for you today?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

I've been through half a dozen tanks since yesterday - rewicked a few times to get the wicking just right. I really like it, now that I (think) I've figured out how to stop the leaks. Even then it leaks less than my subtanks, so I'm happy

 

[Berko360]

No no, you use wattage mod to "prep" the ti. Don't use it in wattage mode it will get too hot! In temperature control you use ti contact or spaced.
If your mod has a TI mode, you're good up to 600°. That coil won't even come close to glowing. If you only have ni mode I'd say 500° to be safe. Ti in ni mode has about a 100° offset. For example, in ni mode using Ti, 350° would be more like 450°.

Thanks that cleared up my problems. Didn't think ti should be used in wattage mode but I now I get that's how u prep it.. and wow 500degrees in Ti coil mode won't make the wire glow I didn't know that, thanks for the tips!

 

[VapingN252]

Just ordered me some 26 gauge titanium from sweet spot. Lucky me I can upload a titanium profile and it should be beautiful unadulterated vaping.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I've been through half a dozen tanks since yesterday - rewicked a few times to get the wicking just right. I really like it, now that I (think) I've figured out how to stop the leaks. Even then it leaks less than my subtanks, so I'm happy

I am saddened with mine today. I have been using the Billows V2 on top of my sig 75 now without issue. Resistance is right at .20. Tried it yesterday on the D2 in TI mode and it was not to my liking. I wont bash the mod just that I seem to like TI in NI200 mode better. The TI mode was either too hot or too cold and lacked depth. I probably needed to fine tune it more but after I got a really hot hit, I took it off and let it rest for the night so it would be ready to go back on my sig 75 this am after cooling all night. Well crap this morning, it was reading .45 as I think one of the legs broke loose (makes sense on why the resistance is doubled vs its normal dual coil readings. Being in a hurry this am, I had to leave it home and not bring it with me to work today. So I grab my silo beast with the NI200 coil in it run out the door. Half way to work, flavor is shot. coil is all junked up. ugh fuck me... so now I am limping through the day with the artic that I dont really like, but its better than running to the store for a pack of smokes. I am going to have to make due with this today until I can get home and get my gear back online. Gonna be a tough day I can tell lololol